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Wilder's window of ...
 

[Sticky] Wilder's window of opportunity to build promotion squad

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werdermouth
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The statement from the club that Chris Wilder wanted to build his team around Tavernier but it was the player who forced the move doesn't quite add up to me. We've been told for weeks now that Tav wasn't forcing a move and was happy at Boro but every player has his price and if an offer met their valuation then that's football etc.

Are we saying Boro were powerless to keep Tavernier? Surely they could have easily stuck to their guns on the asking price and said they valued him at £15m and unless a club met that fee he wouldn't be sold - after all there's still five weeks left in the transfer window and they didn't have to cave in at an initial fee of £10m, which they rejected from Forest.

OK, perhaps if Bournemouth had offered Tav anything from £25k a week it could have turned his head as that would still probably have been 3-4 times what he currently earns. But the club had said they'd even offered him a new contract to keep hold of him - though we probably won't ever hear how much they tempted him to stay with. It's been reported McNair earns around £20k a week and Howson was previously earning£25k a week before his deal.

Sounds all a bit like spin to me to placate those disgruntled supporters claiming the club lack ambition as I'm not convinced by the narrative that the club did everything they could to keep Tav but it was player who demanded the move - as it has actually sounded for a few weeks now that the club were prepared to cash in if the right offer came along.

Surely Tav must realise he has probably at least a 50-50 chance of being back in the Championship next season with Bournemouth - maybe he pondered those were better odds than being in the PL with Boro next season given the lack of recruitment at the sharp end. In football, money talks whether it's the promise of better wages for players or cashing in on a player they would have to had sold 12 months later if Boro's promotion bid failed. I suspect the deal suited both parties otherwise it wouldn't have happened at this precise moment - probably only Chris Wilder is the one caught in the middle feeling disappointed...


exmil
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werdermouth, so you believe reports that Tavernier wasn’t pushing for a move, but do not believe a report that says he turned down a new contract, leaving 12 months left on his present one. If Boro didn’t agree the Bournemouth bid, Tavernier could have signed a pre agreement in January or do you think Bournemouth would have agreed to (possible) £12.5m fee in the January window.

Before anyone says he had 2 years left on his contract, that is not what was reported on the MFC website, as when people started quoting a gazette report stating they “believe” Tavernier signed another year extension when Fry signed his new contract, I searched the MFC website for Tavernier signs new contract and the only one in the archives was the one that ends 2023.

I believe MFC offered Tavernier a new contract but it didn’t match what Bournemouth were offering and maybe before the offer he wasn’t pushing for a move but after comparing the two offers, he refused the on from MFC. Even now it’s not 100% certain he is leaving and a report today states the fee is £12m plus £3m add ons but it is up to each individual which reports they wish to believe.

Come on BORO.


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werdermouth
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Exmil

There does appear to be some uncertainty about Tav's existing contract and whether it had two years left or just one - though if it was just one year then there is no real argument in having to justify selling him as he could have left for nothing at the end of the season. So I doubt that was the case.

However, I do think he may have been using the transfer bids to leverage a new deal on better terms as he was far from being one of the best paid players from the various Boro wage estimates published. Perhaps the club promised him a good deal but when it was presented it fell way short of his expectations.

He could well have argued that he deserved to be on a par with McNair given there are no clubs queuing up to offer Boro £10m+ for Paddy (at least not at the moment). So I agree with your argument that Tav wasn't pushing for a move until he saw what both clubs were offering and then was slightly miffed and said if that's your best offer then I'm off.

The club can then claim that they did 'all they could' to keep him but obviously what they were prepared to offer was based on their Championship wage limits so the 'all' bit has caveats as perhaps if they'd met Tavernier's expectations he would have stayed.


PaulInBoro
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There does seem to be a great deal of hand wringing going on, at the end of the day Bornmouth are a PL team and have offered PL league wages, who on this board would turn down a job for double or triple their current wages, you wouldn't see me for dust, also Tav is not from middlesbrough so in some ways it's just a job. So I don't blame him if he does go he has to look after number one.

Maybe we all need a reality check, money talks and we don't know what financial state the club is in and how close we are to the FFP limits.

The club has stated we are a selling club and we a trying too be more self sustainable and because of this any player has a price.

Kevin Meguire the football figures man says we loose a  scary amount of money and if we are trying to staunch some of these loses we should be supportive nobody wants the club to go the way of Derby.

It would be nice for the club to have pots of cash, but I don't want the club to be owned by an American or Saudi Prince.


David in Cumbria
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I had posted earlier that Tav was the driving force of our midfield so I am disappointed that he has gone but accept that once he decided he wanted to leave there was really nothing we could do about it but I think he will prove hard to replace. Even with the incoming fees for Tav and Spence I suspect that FFP will mean we have to keep most of the fees in the club rather than any big spending. There are still lots of positions to be filled if only to provide cover for the season.

I was looking at my MFC profile details on Tuesday and noticed that the history of my season card purchases showed "Not Renewed" for 2022/23! I messaged the ticket office and today got a reply that my card is "renewed and active" though the history still does not show this. I will find out when I next try to get into the Riverside which unfortunately will not be on Saturday. I had the sniffles and a cough on Wednesday so I tested myself for Covid and it showed positive so it will at the earliest be Tuesday before I leave the house. I assume I caught Covid either at the Marseille match or on the various trains.  


werdermouth
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PaulinBoro

Yes I'd agree with most of that but the club statement said that Chris Wilder wanted to build his team around Tavernier but MFC claimed they "couldn't have done anymore" to keep him. If there were financial problems then it would have been a different statement that explained they needed sell him to balance the books.

It sounds more like the club were only prepared to go so far and if their offer wasn't acceptable then they'd take the money from Bournemouth and move on. It looks like Chris Wilder will now have to build his team around someone else - probably Riley McGree.

Tavernier will now have to get used to playing in front of small crowds in Bournemouth and possibly getting used to being on the losing side most times - but for that he'll be financially compensated.


werdermouth
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David

Hope the Covid stays mild and you're back to match fitness soon - plus hopefully the Boro admin gets sorted too!


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Andy R
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I guess this is a pretty obvious statement but ultimately deals don’t get done unless there is agreement from all parties.

I’m really disappointed that Tav is leaving but we move on. I wish him well but think Bournemouth will have a stinker this season tbh.

As much as I rate and appreciate Tav, I don’t see him leaving as season-defining for us.


Selwynoz
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Fail, how can we now that the Forss is with us.

Sorry about that but he certainly seems to have genuine pace and an eye for goal. The only real question is what went wrong last year but I’m happy to wait and see.

Does he make the squad for West Brom after one day of training with the group? 

UTB


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Selwynoz
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Posted by: @werdermouth

David

Hope the Covid stays mild and you're back to match fitness soon - plus hopefully the Boro admin gets sorted too!

That makes two of us. I also came down with Covid this week so the season will start with quarantine. Not feeling too bad so far and I remain pretty positive about the team. Not so sure about the strength in depth as we slog through the start of the season.

best wishes to any other fellow sufferers.

UTB


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jarkko
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Transfermarkt says the following about Tavanier's contract:

  • Contract expires: Jun 30, 2024
  • Date of last contract extension: Jan 29, 2020

Usually correct but of course not always 🤭.

I had Covid at the end of June. Like a heavy flu but tired for a week afterwards. So you all, speedy recovery and keep safe. And follow the Boro. Up the Boro! 


Philip of Huddersfield
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According to press reports Boro are open to offers for Watmore and will sell if, and when , they get new forwards. If this is true  then I’m surprised. We all know his fitness has to be managed but I’d certainly keep him as an impact player -at least when he plays he always gives his all and maybe inspires other players with his efforts.

Meanwhile it looks as though it’s a make do as far as forwards are concerned with Akpom a likely starter tomorrow.

Philip of Huddersfield 


Original Fat Bob
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Boro boss Chris Wilder has confirmed the club have accepted an offer for Marcus Tavernier.

The midfielder was the subject of a bid from a Premier League club and is close to completing the move.

Wilder said: "We have to get on with it, the club did everything to try and keep Marcus. 

"When you get down to the nitty-gritty of the move and him wanting to move, I think it just became a case of negotiating the transfer fee, which is above me. 

"But as I say the club tried everything they could to keep Tav, and now we have to look forward."

Tavernier is a product of the club's Academy and made 155 appearances after making his debut against Scunthorpe United in the EFL Cup in August 2017.

He scored the first of his 18 goals against Bournemouth a few weeks later in the same competition.

OFB


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werdermouth
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OFB

Yes Tav has left the building, so we move on[wards] and hopefully upwards - can't blame him for wanting to try his luck in the PL, who knows if he'd had an indifferent season or suffered an injury he may not have had the chance again. Some players may only get one or two shots at the big time so he's probably at the right age. Plus no doubt will get a 3-4 year contract on PL wages to offer him financial security for life.


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werdermouth
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Philip

If the club want it t be known that they're willing to listen to offers for Watmore then you would think they'd be more public than leaking it to TeamTalk. Since he's been given a squad number and is as you say a very good impact player then it doesn't sound like a likely exit - then again who knows as we're still awaiting those marquee players!


werdermouth
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Selwynoz

Have a speedy recovery and take it easy - plus enjoy watching the football!


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K P in Spain
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Just wanted to wish everyone having health issues at the moment a full and speedy recovery.

To Werder and his family, safe travelling and an enjoyable holiday.  Hopefully by the time you return we will be a top of the league!  Well one can dream. 😎

This post was modified 4 months ago by K P in Spain

K P in Spain
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As far as the Tav situation goes, my main concern is the timing of it which is far from ideal.  We were already light in midfield and the loss of another left footed midfielder just days before the start of the season is a major concern.

The club appear to be struggling to find one, let alone two midfielders and a LCB; I just hope we don’t find ourselves in a position where, come the end of August, we are so far away from the top six that we end up trying to play catch up for the remainder of the season. 😎


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K P in Spain
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Just read in the EG that CW stated Tav was in the last two years of his contract with MFC so that appears to clarify the length of his contract which had been a source of confusion. 😎


K P in Spain
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https://www.footballfancast.com/southampton-fc-news/southampton-adam-armstrong-transfer-news-saints-premier-league-ralph-hasenhuttl-update-gossip-rumour

Sounds like we may have had our hopes raised falsely if this report is accurate. 😎☹️☹️

This post was modified 4 months ago by K P in Spain

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Malcolm
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I have the feeling the club is in slight disarray between the recruitment and CW. 

Wouldn't be surprised if he left.


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Andy R
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I don’t see a lot of evidence of disconnection/discontent/disharmony between Wilder and Scott/the club.

All the signings that we’ve made could very easily be Wilder signings rather than “club signings” as they all seem to fit the mould so well. The possible exception to that is Smith as that seems to have been more opportunistic than planned but he’s a welcome addition nonetheless and seems even more of a Wilder signing than a club one.

On the outgoings, the only controversial one is Tavernier who Wilder clearly didn’t want to lose but that has been explained - MT wanted a crack at the Premier League and an acceptable offer was made. These things happen and I don’t think they hint at anything sinister behind the scenes.

The one area that we’ve struggled is getting enough bodies in to fill the gaps. Is that because of a problem between the club hierarchy and Wilder though? I don’t think so. I think it’s because - once again and often mentioned here - we’ve flip-flopped on playing styles between managers and the squad Wilder has inherited is not fit for purpose for his style of play, leading to yet another squad overhaul.

So a large quantity of players that the manager doesn’t really want, plus a couple more who everyone has agreed to take the money on, and now we’re short.

That’s not a disconnection in my view, it’s more of the same poor continuity planning at the club that long pre-dates Wilder.

We have a chance to stick to a promising path now. Everything is in place except the squad for the first game of the season. It’s unfortunate, it’s frustrating but it’s the right way forward overall. It will just take more time than we’d like to undo the previous messes.


K P in Spain
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I agree Andy having listened to CW’s pre match press conference he appeared pleased with recruitment so far but frustrated along with the recruitment team that other issues were delaying matters.

They know who they want but often there are other factors that have to fall into place before deals can take place and with the window still open for another month it’s a case of being patient for quality rather than rush to quantity. 😎


Andy R
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Exactly that, KP.

By the way, having a structure, an identity in terms of way of playing, a good manager and a recruitment strategy is still not a guarantee of success unfortunately. If we do end up bringing in a further 3 or 4 players you can be sure that not all will work out as planned.

However, there simply are no guarantees and you have to do what you can to stack the odds in your favour.

I think we’re trying to do that for the first time in decades and am really pleased with the direction the club has taken over the last ten months or so.


Martin Bellamy
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I agree with those latest comments. I’m still feeling positive about this season - the loss of MT is a potential negative but we’ve got to accept that the PL will always be a draw to ambitious players. 
Looking forward to tomorrow’s game. 


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Plato
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I decided long ago that I would not even comment on a player showing fine form, getting an offer from a rich club, and that does mean serious wealth and a capital sum for signing on, and I am not talking ten grand, I'm talking a big house in the country. If it was my grandson with such a problem I would read him the riot act and hand him the pen to sign. It is foolish for supporters who have to live to a budget all their lives, to be throwing about remarks about loyalty! You either get what you can for your family, or miss that bus, and find that it will never stop at your door again. The press are kind enough to print the numbers, and they are startling.    


Selwynoz
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A lot of solid common sense from a number of correspondents. 

Firstly, recruitment may have been delayed but there is not one acquisition that I would take issue with. There is still a month left of the window and I have a great deal of confidence that we will add some more strong players. I see no evidence of discord between CW and the recruitment team. It’s almost as if some people prefer to see problems.

Tavernier is a loss. No question, but @plato is absolutely right. Reports of a 5% signing-on bonus plus 35-40k a week over at least a three year contract represents a multi-million dollar safety net for the man and his family, current or future. The only thing that we don’t know is the level of MFC’s counter offer because that would tell us exactly how much extra he is guaranteed by going to Bournemouth.

I flipped through a rerun of Huddersfield v Burnley. I tipped Burnley as being part of two out of three for automatic along with Watford and Boro and they certainly look the part or maybe Huddersfield were just terrible. A bit of both perhaps.I did also tip Huddersfield as a major under-achiever for the season and they certainly started that way.

utb


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Ken Smith
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Not a good start for yours truly these last few days. First of all I was off-line for a couple of days as my iPad went kaput and as I’m now virtually housebound and don’t drive any more had to rely on a neighbour to take me to Curry’s to buy a new one, my 4th in the last 10 years. Then a day of catching up on the last few days sports news and a disaster so far.

Firstly Speedway where Redcar Bears top rider Germany’s Erik Riss broke a leg in Poland on Thursday and the Bears were unable to find a replacement for last night’s meeting at Scunthorpe as Redcar lost 40-50 to the Scorpions. 

In my favourite summer sport of cricket, England lost the second T20 international at Cardiff whilst Yorkshire slid to their 3rd successive defeat in the County Championship at Scarborough to Hampshire and are now in danger of being in a relegation dog fight with Somerset.

In Rugby League Castleford Tigers in 5th place in Super League lost quite deservedly to bottom placed Wakefield at home 6-32 after winning their previous 17 encounters against their near neighbours and with a tough run-in are in danger of missing out on the end of the year playoffs. Considering that Cas had won 5 of their last 6 matches with some impressive performances whilst Wakefield had lost their last 5 matches this was a big surprise.

Surely Boro can’t continue to make it a completely miserable sporting weekend tonight against West Brom, the first time the two clubs have met in the opening league match for 101 years. However the omens aren’t good as my records show that the Teessiders have only won two of their opening match of the season in 21 seasons with 10 draws and 9 defeats. In fact Boro are looking to win their first opening match of the season for 8 years having drawn 5 and lost 2 previously.

But hey ho, all sports statistics are there to be broken, just ask Wakefield. So perhaps Boro might turn the tide. Surely the gods can’t be so cruel to make this my worst sporting weekend for as far back as I can remember, so come on Boro break my hoodoo!

The most important piece of news though is that after my hospitalisation earlier this month, I received a letter from James Cook Endoscopy Department yesterday informing me that it’s unlikely that my cancer has spread to my bowels despite being diagnosed bowel incontinent for the rest of my life. One comes into this world incontinent, and some like me leave this world with the same complaint. Too old and frail now for a colostomy, but c’est la vie!

This post was modified 4 months ago 5 times by Ken Smith

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Original Fat Bob
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Boro Website

A new version of the Middlesbrough FC App is coming...

The official Middlesbrough App is currently in development, with a new version to be released in the coming weeks.

This means that, for the time being, this app will not be updated with the latest Boro news and information, nor will you be able to live stream our matches.

You do not need to uninstall or remove this app - when the new version is ready, you will be prompted to update.

In the meantime, for all your Boro news and live streaming, please visit mfc.co.uk on desktop or mobile.

Thanks for your patience, and up the Boro!‌

OFB


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jarkko
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Thanks for that, OFB. Appreciated.  UBT!


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