Discussion Forum

Boro v West Brom
 

Boro v West Brom

100 Posts
19 Users
677 Reactions
983 Views
Member
Joined: 6 years ago
Posts: 1676
Topic starter   [#552]

After a last-gasp win was followed by familiar frustration in our opening two league games, Boro's next challenge comes at home to West Bromwich Albion on Saturday, kick-off 12:30pm. Unusually, the game will be broadcast live on ITV1.

How Boro's start to the season is viewed at this point probably depends on your own preconceptions. Is what we've seen so far evidence that we're once again a decent footballing side but with the same old frailties? Or are we a team full of new signings that's still settling down while showing promise in patches? In other words, how full, or empty, is your glass?

Blackburn 2-1 Boro was indeed a familiar defeat. And not just because it was Ewood Park or against a Tony Mowbray team. Early on, Boro were on top. Well on top. But as the game drifted towards the moments that matter, we once again came up short.

“The Concession of Avoidable Goals” is a book I could write about Boro in recent years. The only problem is that it would be far too long and painfully repetitive.

And yet it started so well. After a terrific rapped pass forward from Malanda, Whittaker showed fantastic fast feet before the composed conversion from Sarmiento. 1-0 to the Boro courtesy of two players who have yet to be fully taken to Teesside hearts.

That goal was the justified end product of Boro's early dominance. At that stage we were good value for the lead, with the largely unheralded Myles Peart-Harris looking classy and elegant as he drifted around midfield, seemingly always finding space. Added to his more obvious physical attributes, he looks a low-key promising addition.

Meanwhile, new left-back Max Arfsten appears comfortably two-footed. A more than useful weapon in itself, that should ease some concerns about cover for Brittain, at least from an attacking perspective. Indeed, Arfsten covered Brittain in that position in Tuesday night’s rather more routine outing versus Doncaster in the Carabao Cup. The capture of the experienced Sam Byram now alleviates those concerns in any case.

Berhalter also whipped in a few early crosses from the right that, while not quite reaching the quality we saw in the second half against Lincoln, hinted at a new weapon in Boro's attacking armoury. Hackney's drive and thrust cannot be replaced at Championship level but there have been fleeting glimpses from Berhalter that suggest Boro may have found something different that could yet prove effective.

For all that, Boro's dominance barely lasted beyond the half-hour mark. Before long, Vitek was called upon to make a couple of smart saves before Ayling produced a vital goal-line clearance.

Then came two Blackburn goals in quick succession after the break. Not that I actually saw either of them in real time thanks to “technical difficulties”. It was a sickening shock to recover the video feed only to discover that Boro had somehow gone from leading to trailing!

From there, the pattern settled into an all-too-familiar script: Boro's increasingly laboured attacks against a stubborn, everyone-behind-the-ball defence, with precious few answers on offer. Again. So disappointing.

Still, early days.

And so onto the next chapter and West Brom, now managed by gruff-voiced singer-songwriter former Boro schemer, James Morrison.

Morrison took over as interim manager in February following the brief and best-forgotten tenure of Eric Ramsay. He lost only one of his 11 games in charge and eased the Baggies comfortably away from relegation danger in the process. The Darlington-born midfielder, who spent 12 years at West Brom after his frankly bizarre cut-price departure from Boro back in 2007, was rewarded with the job on a permanent basis over the summer.

Happily for Morrison, that solid form has carried into this season, with West Brom one of only two sides to win both of their opening league matches. That's particularly impressive when you consider those victories came against play-off hopefuls Norwich at Carrow Road and much-fancied Burnley.

And that's despite a fair bit of upheaval within the Baggies squad. Somewhat of a summer purge has seen former regulars Alex Mowatt, Josh Maja, Karlan Grant, Jed Wallace and Daryl Dike all departing for modest fees or nothing at all, replaced by lesser-known names such as Norway's Felix Horn Myhre and French midfielder Rabby Nzingoula, among others we’ve never heard of. Former Ipswich full-back Conor Townsend is the only new arrival whose name I recognise.

As for Boro, Saturday already feels a little more important than you might ordinarily expect for a third league game of the season. Two defeats from the opening three matches would hardly constitute a crisis, particularly given the number of new faces bedding in, but it would inevitably crank up the volume on some familiar concerns, and perhaps a few budding ones too such as Hellberg’s ability to find the right solutions. A positive result, on the other hand, would leave Blackburn feeling more like an early-season setback than the continuation of a worrying trend.

My glass is still half-full. West Brom arrive in excellent form and no doubt full of confidence but are unlikely to pose anything on Saturday that we haven't seen before in this league. The question is whether Boro can turn periods of control into something more meaningful and, crucially, cut out the costly mistakes at the other end. If they can manage that, there's every chance of three points.

If not, I may have to start work on that book after all.

Come on Boro.



Martin Bellamy
Member
Joined: 6 years ago
Posts: 2325
 

Excellent, as ever, Andy. 

West Brom will be a test on Saturday, but one we need to pass if we’re to have a successful season. It won’t be the end of the world if we draw or lose, but KH’s standing with the fans will take a beating if we don’t win. 



Member
Joined: 6 years ago
Posts: 2718
 

Great opener, Andy.  👍

News from the Echo of the varying degrees of readiness/availability of Tommy Conway, Adilson Malanda, Sam Byram, Ashley Phillips & Alfie Jones:

https://www.thenorthernecho.co.uk/sport/26500002.middlesbrough-forward-tommy-conway-returning-training/



Philip of Huddersfield
Member
Joined: 6 years ago
Posts: 941
 

Boro are also on sky football channel 403 on Saturday. Think I’ll watch on ITV.

philip of Huddersfield 😁



Pedro de Espana
Member
Joined: 6 years ago
Posts: 2448
 

Thanks for your first of the season Andy, and as always, a very well delivered Headliner. 

It is a pity that your notes for your future book, “The Confession of Avoidable Goals” were added to with more poor defending by Boro in the first two League games, especially the two against Blackburn and one could argue against Doncaster.

However, we will soon (hopefully) have more than sufficient defenders for Hellberg to bring an end the silly mistakes that appear to be embedded into the team.

If everyone is fit and ready, what formation and choice of players will Hellberg pick. Will he stick with the same eleven, assuming we start winning games. Or will he rotate one, two or even three players on a regular basis. Of course injuries may make those decisions for him.

1.  Vitek or Brynn.  

4.  Brittain/Byram.   Ayling/Phillips/ Malander/Jones.  Arfsten/Borges

2.  Morris/Berhalter/Peart-Harris/Pukstas?/Kante

3.  Whittaker/Sarmiento.  McGree/Castledine.  Conway/Joseph

1.  Lankshear/Strelec

We may even get another wide player in to complete the squad, although a number will have to leave, sold or loan.

That, given some luck against issues we had last season, certainly on paper there should be little in the way of excuses. Mr Gibson has done his bit, hopefully Mr Scott and Team have picked the right players and Hellberg can prove he has the flexible capability to deliver.

WBA is possibly the first real test. Let’s see what we are made of. 

 



Member
Joined: 6 years ago
Posts: 1430
 

Thanks Andy. No matter what the game or who our opponents, we know that you will always produce something that is beautifully written and highly perceptive. So this is an excellent opener which whets the appetite for Saturday's game.

Albion have played very well so far this season, and their counter- attacking prowess seems designed to hit us precisely where we are most vulnerable.

Watching the Newcastle- Liverpool game last Sunday revealed, yet again, that Liverpool have precisely the same problem as we do. When they are caught on the break there are wide open spaces down the flanks that are all too easy for supposedly weaker teams to exploit. It's been like that for too many seasons now.

What both teams lack is a defensive midfielder who can sit in front of the back four, fill the gaps and snuff out any danger before it arises. Liverpool have never replaced Fabinho, Boro ditto with Morsy.

Wily old Mogga with little to spend brought in Sam, though now well past his prime, as one of his first signings and on a free transfer to perform exactly that function. He was still good enough to be the rock on which most of our attacks foundered last Saturday. He even went down with faux-cramp to provide a lengthy break that saw his team over the line without too many further alarms. Frustrating and annoying for us. Exemplary professionalism as far as Mogga was concerned

At the moment we have too many new and moving parts to know exactly what kind of machine we have.

Are we going to be one of the most exciting and progressive teams in the league who will delight the Boro faithful throughout a long and challenging season?

Or a soft touch with a vulnerable under-belly that will have the coaches of even the weakest teams in the division smacking their lips in anticipation ?

Saturday won't provide us with any definitive answers, but I'm expecting an open and enjoyable game and crossing my fingers for the right result.



jarkko
Member
Joined: 6 years ago
Posts: 3454
 

Posted by: @pedro
↑

1.  Vitek or Brynn.  

4.  Brittain/Byram.   Ayling/Phillips/ Malander/Jones.  Arfsten/Borges

2.  Morris/Berhalter/Peart-Harris/Pukstas?/Kante

3.  Whittaker/Sarmiento.  McGree/Castledine.  Conway/Joseph

1.  Lankshear/Strelec

  Hi Pedro, a good summary about our players there. We look to have more debth in our squad now - even more than in the Karanka era. This could be an exciting season once the new players bed in. So far it’s been three wins out of four first matches. 

@Andy A great opener. I look forward to watching the Boro taking on Morrison's Baggies. It will be live on ViaPlay here in the Nordics. 

Up the Boro!

 



Member
Joined: 6 years ago
Posts: 3386
 

Thank you Andy for an excellent starter which is up to your usual high standard and a pleasure to read.

You have hit the nail on the head as far as the team is concerned, is it one made up of a number of new players still trying to gel or is it the one from the end of last season with the same old frailties; only time will tell and Saturday’s result will not be season defining but it may give us a clue as to where we might be headed.

A tough task but they all are and we need to turn the Riverside into a fortress. 😎



jarkko
Member
Joined: 6 years ago
Posts: 3454
 

Pick of the stats by the BBC: Middlesbrough v West Brom

  • Middlesbrough have won each of their past five league games against West Bromwich Albion and are only on a longer active winning streak in the Football League against Bolton Wanderers (8) and Birmingham City (7).

  • West Bromwich Albion have won just three of their past 28 away league matches against Middlesbrough (D7 L18), going winless in five (D1 L4) since a 1-0 victory in October 2019.

  • Middlesbrough have won each of their past three home league games in succession after defeating Lincoln 2-1 on the opening day, Boro last enjoyed a longer winning run at the Riverside Stadium between December 2022 and March 2023 (seven wins).

  • After defeating Norwich City and Burnley so far, West Brom will be hoping to win their opening three matches of a league campaign for the first time since 1997-98.

  • Across the opening two matchdays of the 2026-27 Championship season, West Brom's Jimmy-Jay Morgan is the only player to record multiple assists (2), while across all competitions his five goal contributions in total (three goals, two assists) are the most of any Championship player.

Not a Boro bogey team, I guess. Up the Boro!



Member
Joined: 6 years ago
Posts: 727
 

Thanks for a great opener Andy. This looks to be a tough fixture as Albion are flying and look like they are playing some good football. They do have a small squad only 21 first team players at the moment, and a number of injuries including Mikey Johnson a tricky winger who caused us problems I recall last season. They have just signed 20 year old Kareem Tunde from Levante in Spain. As well as James Morrison, they also have Tony McMahon amongst their coaching staff. The referee is Paul Tierney who is a Premier League referee, and we all know how well we get on with those. Hopefully there will be a repeat of the result of our last lunchtime kick off from last season against a team beginning with W. Last home game 5-1 v Watford.



Member
Joined: 6 years ago
Posts: 2290
 

ANDY R - That was a masterly introduction to the WBA game and I very much enjoyed reading it. Let's hope BORO can show as much talent on Saturday.

And, JARKKO - A good cull of the BBC stats.  I don't know what to think really, but I think we can say someone looking at the past would favour BORO whilst someone looking at the games so far this season would probably favour WBA.  



Pedro de Espana
Member
Joined: 6 years ago
Posts: 2448
 

Pukstas scores in the 94 minute to send Hajduk Split through in their Conference Tie. 



Member
Joined: 2 months ago
Posts: 9
 

@lenmasterman ref; "defensive midfielder who can sit in front of the back four" . . I believe Morris is supposed to be that man for us but he is distracted trying to fill in for the departed HH. As a senior leader he's admirably trying to drive the team forward and dictate our tempo but it doesn't really suit his skillset and as you mention it leaves gaps in behind. Hopefully as Peart-Harris gains minutes and Pukstas arrives he can revert back to destroyer in chief.



Member
Joined: 6 years ago
Posts: 1676
Topic starter  

To Billog and Len’s points, and indeed my own about more balance, I do think that Carrick’s original tactic for his first season fits the bill well.

It’s a 4-2-3-1 on paper, as Hellberg seems to prefer, but when attacking one fullback pushes forward into a winger position and the shape shifts to a 3-2-4-1.

With our current squad, it would be Arfsten who bombs forward down the left, with McGree (if fit) sliding inside into a left 10. The right fullback tucks in as third centre-back, the right winger stays wide and looks to go on the outside and, crucially, the midfield two hold position covering the central area in front of the back three.

 

Something like this without the ball:

---------------------------Vitek--------------------------

Brittain/Ayling Jones/Phillips Malanda Arfsten

-------------------Berhalter Morris--------------------

----------Sarmiento Whittaker McGree-----------

-----------------------Lankshear-----------------------

 

And with the ball:

 

---------------------------Vitek--------------------------

-------Britain/Ayling Jones/Phillips Malanda--------

-------------------Berhalter Morris--------------------

-------Sarmiento Whittaker McGree Arftsen--------

-----------------------Lankshear-----------------------

 

To me, that gets all of our players into the spaces they really want to be in – Arftsen high and wide, Whittaker in the right half space, McGree in the left, Ayling as a hybrid right-back/right centre-back if selected – except perhaps Sarmiento, who instead of being a left winger who comes in, would be a right winger who stays out.

The balance is there though, with Morris and Berhalter always positioned to recycle the ball AND hold space in front of the defence.

 

PS

I know I’m no coach and that KH and his coaches know infinitely more, but I like thinking about tactical solutions!



Member
Joined: 6 years ago
Posts: 3386
 

@andy-r.  Your suggested structure certainly works for me and has worked for the team in the past as it keeps a structure when we are being offensive/defensive.

At times, under KH, that structure disappears, especially when we are chasing a game with defenders all pushing forward and leaving spaces/opposition players unmarked; hopefully KH will see your post when he next does a bit of lurking on Diasboro! 😉😎



Site Creator
Joined: 10 years ago
Posts: 4255
 

Finally got the chimney project ticked off before the storms arrived so back in the game!

Many thanks Andy for another one of your thought-provoking excellent previews written in style - I'm still glass half-full despite the Blackburn game being a familiar messed up attempt at seeing off an opposition that was seemingly on the ropes before being hit with a couple of sucker punches.

It's going to be hard for Hellberg to decide on his best starting XI as more and more of the new arrivals get up to speed and other injured players return. In theory it's no longer a tight squad that has a core that picks itself - it's perhaps more about Hellberg deciding on who is going to execute a better game or perhaps a better start and ending to a game.

The other issue is observing which players play better together and form good partnerships and/or compensate for weaknesses elsewhere - that may mean some obvious starters head to the bench instead or indeed may still move on.

I'm thinking perhaps Ashley Philips and Alfie Jones look like a good solid athletic pairing who read the game well - but is Luke Ayling more influential to the team as whole? Also, I thought Arfsten on the right looked less predictable going forward than Brittain as he was prepared to take his man on. Plus I though Borges movement off the ball against Doncaster was excellent and he had one of his best games down the left.

Indeed, who do we want on the pitch - not sure if Morris, Berhalter and Peart-Harris can all start together but which one of those would I leave out? 

Up front, Lankshear and Joseph look our best options and Sarmiento has really upped his game this season - plus if McGree is fit I'd want him on the pitch. At the moment it's hard to see where Strelec gets a game - especially if Conway is fit again - so is he surplus or just an expensive bench option to compete with Whittaker and Castledine or any late arrivals - we still need some more pace I think?

Perhaps a few departures to come before Tuesday if Hellberg wants a more manageable squad...



Site Creator
Joined: 10 years ago
Posts: 4255
 

Just catching up on the transfer news that Rokas Pukstas is about to sign for Boro for around €5m - he's a box-to-box central midfielder who scores goals so be interesting to see who may make way for him or whether we'll see him as an upgrade on Kante who can arrive off the bench to add momentum. Still, it's another new player - the 9th arrival of the summer with reports that one or two more may still arrive.

Apparently, Boro only have 22 players who need registering but it's currently a strong 26-man squad - still you can only start with 11 and have 5 subs so ten players could be disappointed most weeks...



Member
Joined: 6 years ago
Posts: 2290
 

Very interesting posts, WERDER and ANDY R. We were having a discussion at the Battered Badger on Wednesday about how much input Kim Hellberg has as regards incoming and outgoings players. A slight difference of opinion between my mate (who is of the Fergie school - 'I want to decide who comes in and out, if I want X you go out and get him") and me ("I will involve you in discussions and you can put forward a wishlist with options/alternatives, but at the end of the day I have recruitment and acquisitions staff whose job it is to do that, and they can give weight to your suggestions. If I sign the cheques I  and/or my acquisitions team will decide, unless you want to lob in 50%....".

Obviously it's a bit of both, a compromise. And if the manager wants X but X will not come or his club will not sell, or it would trash the club's finances/wage structure, then even with the best will in the world that deal will not happen.

It is looking good so far on the "acquisitions" front so we have to move some players on. I note Pukstas scored last night "in Europe". He might be a bit tasty and if we can get these newly obtained players to bed into the squad, we may be in for a special season. 



Member
Joined: 6 years ago
Posts: 2290
 

I have not yet read about it or listened online, but I understand Pukstas has flown in to Teesside (talks/medical/signing?), although he played for Hadjuk Split in Europe, and scored last night. That sounds good to me. We often hear "Player X will not be in the squad. There is a lot of media talk about a potential move and we want him to be "right" before we play him.  Or even a "strike" or an Isaak situation. Much better if a player shows he is willing (even keen) to play every game he can, and to do his best rather than "being careful with his body", despite interest from other clubs. The sort of player you want on your books, I think. 



Pedro de Espana
Member
Joined: 6 years ago
Posts: 2448
 

Andy and Werder, two good posts there to give all of us something to think about.

I think there is probably a lot of what Werder said, about players gelling together, understandings, even playing friendships, that we tend not to think about too much.

However, the Coaching team, led by the Head Coach, see the players on a day to day basis and should easily be able to see the parts that make 100% or even as we have talked about on here, “greater than the sum of the parts” if that is at all possible.

So, given that the new signings and the existing players, are all as we hope (and there are no significant failure like last summer) then I think that now, or even over the next two/three games (I am being generous):

  - - -  this is all about Kim Hellberg. He now has to prove, with over half a season experience in the Championship, that he can solve the issues that stopped us being promoted last season.

Reduce the self inflicted mistakes at the back. There will always be some. 

As Andy posted, make sure we do not get constantly caught out on transitions.

And probably most importantly, use the width with pace, to get behind the opposition defenders, and stop playing tip-tap through the lines until the 18 yard box is congested and we post stats of 20 shots, 3 on target, 8 shots, the rest nowhere near.

Quality over quantity, as we have seen with other teams.

So Mr Kim Hellberg. Please show us you can do it and Teesside will continue giving the success does. 

PS Rokas Pukstas scored with his head last night and is just under 6 foot.

 



jarkko
Member
Joined: 6 years ago
Posts: 3454
 

@forever-dormo The culture in Swedish companies, at least is to discuss the desision. And for several times. It is called "diskutera".

There are a few Finnish companies owned by a Swedish company, and the biggest cultural difference is their insistance to have several meeting before the management makes a desision. The Finnish way is to have one meeting, and then making a desision.

I think Kim Hellberg as a Swede will be OK with the current system that he is a head coach but involved in discussions with  Kieran Scott, Neil Bausor and Steve Gibson.

Up the Boro!



Member
Joined: 6 years ago
Posts: 504
 

@andy-r - I have been laid low for a couple of days with a nasty little stomach bug which knocked me out more than it should do - must be my age I guess when I can’t shrug it off and carry on.

As to be expected on this forum, yet another great starter for 10 which sums it all up along with all the other incisive comments from others! Those of us who are late to the game can find it hard to add much as so many good points are made.

It will be interesting to see how KH sets up the team and I would hope that we can eradicate some of the careless defensive errors that we still appear to make which can be very costly. In the little I have seen, we can be slow to react to quick breaks which arise from mistakes further up the field when we try to keep the ball for too long in the build up rather than take a more direct approach. Whitaker is one of the worst offenders in my book although by no means the only one.

I guess with all the new players, it is bound to take some time to gell, especially when some players aren’t match fit (which I find somewhat surprising really). 

At the moment, I am in the glass half full camp and we have a long way to go - it’s still only August and 3 victories out of 4 isn’t a bad return - if only that would continue all season! (The nurse will be bringing my medication soon!)

So I go for a 2 1 victory based on a starting line up of

Vitek

Brittain Philips/Ayling Malandra Jones Arfsten

 Berhalter Morris/Peart Harris

Sarmiento Castledine Joseph

Lankshear

UTB

PS And I have just realised that I have missed out Riley McGree which shows how, as others have said, the squad is shaping up. So given his injury tendencies, I will have him on the bench to come on after 66 minutes to give added drive.

PPS - I hope that there will be reflection for the 2 police officers and the 2 who died in the fire as well after what has been a terrible week for the town. 



Member
Joined: 6 years ago
Posts: 59
 

Posted by: @boro-beckys-dad
↑

Those of us who are late to the game can find it hard to add much as so many good points are made.

Now then BBD, steady on, that's my excuse.

 



Member
Joined: 6 years ago
Posts: 59
 

@boro-beckys-dad 

Truly though, I never cease to be amazed by the quality and content of what so many of the members here offer to the commentary.
I almost feel ashamed to raise my head above the parapet, because I could offer no objective comments on what has already passed and what is about to take place.
So thank you all.



jarkko
Member
Joined: 6 years ago
Posts: 3454
 

Tony McMahon and James Morrison have had their troops up there in the North East for a few days now. So they have prepared properly for the Boro match. This what was told to their web site:

Morrison said: “We stayed up here in the north east after the Newcastle game and we’ve had a good few days.

“It’s been an opportunity to keep the group together for a short period of time and for the new lads to mix with the squad and all get to know each other better.

“Our real focus is on Saturday and coming up against Middlesbrough. We’ve got a big job to do and I don’t want to get away from that. We’re working hard – it’s not a break."

They stayed over at Spennymoor.

https://www.wba.co.uk/news/james-morrison-middlesbrough-fixture-means-lot-me

Up the Boro!



Member
Joined: 6 years ago
Posts: 2290
 

A win today.  Any win - not too bothered about the score as  long as it involves more goals scored by Boro than conceded. I'd take a 1-0 or 2-1 (which I see has been mentioned already above).

#UTB!



Member
Joined: 6 years ago
Posts: 1430
 

I hope that James Morrison gets a really warm reception this afternoon.

He will always have a special place in the affections of many Boro supporters for his red card tackle which wiped out Ronaldo who was showboating, time-wasting and showing a complete lack of professional respect as Man U hung on to a one goal win in an FA Cup quarter final replay at Old Trafford in 2007

Southgate wouldn't criticise the lad, saying it was something they all wanted to do, but they were more experienced.



Site Creator
Joined: 10 years ago
Posts: 4255
 

Looking forward to the game and good that it's on ITV as I can then record it in case I'm late back from another shopping trip. Mrs Werder said we'll easily be back in 2 hours - though she said that last week but she discovered a new sofa 😉 

Which James Morrison as Andy mentioned will be in the dugout at the Riverside? Though there was that other Jim Morrison of 'Nobody gets out here Alive' fame - Hoping West Brom fail to survive Boro's one-touch attacking...

Boro 3-0 WBA



Philip of Huddersfield
Member
Joined: 6 years ago
Posts: 941
 

Now that Boro have signed their tenth new player I see the biggest challenge is to get the squad on the same wavelength, blending as a group and adapting to a successful new way of playing.
So, I won’t be surprised if the next few games don’t go quite as planned and the fans will have to be patient before the team are successful 

Philip of Huddersfield 

🤔👍



   
ReplyQuote
Member
Joined: 6 years ago
Posts: 1676
Topic starter  

@werdermouth I resisted the urge to plunge into James Morrison puns for the fear that they wouldn’t land but I’ll certainly be saying “You Give Me Something” to Boro and hoping that come 14:30 it’s a “Wonderful World”



   
ReplyQuote
Page 1 / 4
Share: