Discussion Forum

Wigan v Boro
 

Wigan v Boro

126 Posts
23 Users
850 Likes
2,191 Views
Member
Joined: 4 years ago
Posts: 1159
 

It might be a mistake to look at the Blog after most of a bottle of Rioja but then the posts sent by Len at 5.48pm, Werder at 7.46pm and 8.07pm and Clive Hurren at 11.34pm (on what will be "yesterday" by the time I press "Add Reply") make it a joy and a correct decision after all.  I don't agree all that I read here but I enjoy reading the vast majority of posts - unlike the majority of the Boro football I see. I like well argued reasoning.  It's good to have people set out their argument. And even better not to suffer abuse for saying something others disagree with.  Reading this Blog is one of the better things about supporting Boro.

Tomorrow (or should I say TODAY?) we will have the Wigan game.  I have NO IDEA what will happen, although I have a fatalistic suspicion.  I'd love this to be a game where OFB's famous eyeballs-in the-sky made an appearance because, let's face it, that would be a great improvement on current form. I daren't even dream of anything more than that.


Member
Joined: 4 years ago
Posts: 2632
Topic starter  

@clive-hurren 

Great Post

I don’t think that the time taken to announce the appointment of Carrick has been wasted.

In my opinion he will have agreed terms of contract and will be working on a letter  of intent subject to the negotiations needed to appoint his coaching staff. (Stoke-O Shea).

During this period, prior to Carrick officially taking over he will have been handed copies of all the players training dossiers “wyzone” statistics and videos of  games played including the training set piece videos taken by the coaching staff.

Taking this into consideration, I would expect Carrick to hit the ground running and have a clear mindset regarding the shape and formation of his team.

He is already aware of the capabilities of some of the players (eg MCNair) and hopefully will be able to return them to their undoubted skill set and team capabilities.

He will have clear targets regarding points to be earned from now until the World Cup and then during the World Cup a pre-season set of training and fitness games. There is no doubt in my mind that this Boro team is unfit and not playing to their capabilities and I have every confidence that the current squad can be improved. A mental toughness as well as physical needs to be instilled into the players and results will be seen on the pitch.

OFB


Member
Joined: 4 years ago
Posts: 2632
Topic starter  

Blackburn are top of the Championship and have had the same number of defeats as Middlesbrough, who are 22nd.!!!

What a league this is …….

OFB


Member
Joined: 4 years ago
Posts: 643
 
Posted by: @original-fat-bob

@clive-hurren 

Great Post

I don’t think that the time taken to announce the appointment of Carrick has been wasted.

Agreed. It seems very clear that something spurred us into action sooner than we planned and this appointment is crucial. There's still plenty of time this season so taking 2-3 weeks to get it right is fine by me. Of course, we have to get it right and there's no guarantee of that. Although Carrick wouldn't be my first choice, I think he's a viable option if he gets the right support. He has certainly talked the talk up to now and seems to have a good background so I am hopeful that he can also walk the walk. As a new manager, provided we pick up enough to stay safe from relegation I'm fine to have inconsistent results and performances for the rest of the season.

On the Wilder front; we haven't heard his side of the story and I'm sure he feels that he was promised things that weren't delivered. I think this is also the first time he has ever been sacked. It looks like his contract has been settled and he's signed a NDA as have we. It does seem that he would have survived bad relationships and good results or good relationships and bad results but both bad at the same time was untenable. Another thing that I noticed; no one anywhere in football seems to be standing up for Wilder. This was a brutal sacking of someone previously thought to be one of the best English managers in the league. Normally there would be a bunch of pundits, ex-players and ex-managers opining about how he wasn't given time etc. There has been complete silence and that does imply to me that, for whatever reason, he has very few friends in football.


Ken Smith
Mr
Joined: 4 years ago
Posts: 2132
 

I did state when Chris Wilder was appointed that he is the type of person who doesn’t suffer fools gladly and hoped fans would stick with him no matter what. I have to say that some Boro players didn’t seem to learn from their mistakes and presumably that’s one reason that Wilder was frustrated, the other being like his predecessor he didn’t get the backing of his recruitment staff. Perhaps Steve Gibson was aware of his mistakes in allowing Gordon Strachan and Garry Monk too much leeway in the transfer markets, and had the final say in backing his manager’s proposed appointments from there on. So Wilder was perhaps not getting the support he was led to believe he should expect. The contrast in the quick appointment of Wilder to the rather slow negotiations this time is more palpable. However in the meantime with all due respect to Leo, we have no tiller  at the wheel in what has become an unexpected fight against relegation instead of a hopeful push to the playoffs.

I too noticed that despite Blackburn being top of the league despite losing as many matches as Boro is the fact that Rovers have yet to draw a match, whilst Boro are often fighting for a draw because of the concession of early goals. I’ve always hated draws, more so since wins became worth 3 points. Nevertheless there is one statistic that shows a glimmer of hope for Boro tonight; in the Championship Boro have scored twice in the last 10 matches played on a Wednesday, winning 7 of them, drawing twice, and only losing the once. A tenuous statistic maybe, but then I’m now clutching at straws, especially as Boro have only lost once in all of their matches at the DW Stadium and that was in the Premier League in 2007 although the last 4 encounters there have finished as draws.

This post was modified 1 year ago 2 times by Ken Smith

Martin Bellamy
Member
Joined: 4 years ago
Posts: 1094
 

As always, this Forum is full of erudite opinion and wise words. The consensus still seems to be that we’re about to appoint the wrong man, but I wonder whether the choice that many believe exists is illusionary. 

I’ve not read too many posters putting forward a list of more acceptable candidates and maybe, just maybe, the Boro isn’t seen as the Holy Grail for suitable Championship managers.

Many contributors have expressed a desire to appoint an experienced manager “who’s been there, done that” at this level but why would they want the job? Should we be poaching a manager who’s currently doing an excellent job at another second tier club? If so, then how? And why would they jump ship?

I’m happy enough for Carrick to have the job and hope that we’d get a new manager bounce ahead of the World Cup break. Any chance of promotion has surely already gone, so hopefully he (and his team) can work on avoiding relegation, getting us to mid table and then pushing on next year. He must have connections in the game (as McLaren did) who can attract the players we need but they’ll need to buy into his and the club’s vision (whatever that is) in the way that players did to Robson all those years ago  I’m not suggesting that there a direct parallel, as football has changed significantly since then, but he’s a NE lad who’s played for one of the world’s biggest clubs and if he wants to be a successful manager he has to start somewhere. 
I’m also comfortable that the club are taking their time appointing a new manager, although I guess it’s possible that all other candidates have turned us down. Maybe we’re all too close to the Boro and our affection for our club isn’t mirrored in the wider football world.

As for our game tonight, I’d usually have tried to get to the game, if we still lived in Lancashire, but as we’re currently on holiday in the Highlands, I’ll be spared the trip. I’ve got fairly weak 4G coverage so I may not even buy a pass to watch the game, although the chances are I’ll give in and have to sit in the garden to try and watch it.  

 

This post was modified 1 year ago by Martin Bellamy

Member
Joined: 4 years ago
Posts: 1159
 

@ken - "Chris Wilder....is the sort of person who doesn't suffer fools gladly..."  I have yet to hear it said of anybody that they DO suffer fools gladly!

I had always assumed that the phrase came from Shakespeare - always a good bet as the originator of a telling phrase - but that is wrong. It comes from Chapter 11 of St Paul's 2nd Epistle to the Corinthians (the people of the ancient Greek city of Corinth rather than football supporters in England or Brazil).

Earlier in Chapter 11 St Paul wrote of other people preaching falsely and wrote of himself in para 6 as "But though I be rude in speech, yet not in knowledge..." and in Para 16 "Let no man think me a fool; if otherwise, yet as a fool receive me, that I may boast myself a little."  "That which I speak, I speak of it not after the Lord but, as it were, foolishly. In this confidence of boasting." (Para 17).  "For ye suffer fools gladly, seeing yourselves as wise" (Para 19).  Now the phrase is always used in a negative sense: "He never suffered fools gladly."

I HAD thought it may be something to do with the fools (clowns or court jesters) Shakespeare often used in his plays as comic characters, to "prick the pomposity" of some of his serious characters or to point out something that many may have been thinking but nobody else dared to say.


Member
Joined: 4 years ago
Posts: 643
 
Posted by: @martin-bellamy

As always, this Forum is full of erudite opinion and wise words. The consensus still seems to be that we’re about to appoint the wrong man, but I wonder whether the choice that many believe exists is illusionary. 

I don't think he's the wrong man. He's not my first choice but I think he's a viable choice. It will depend on a lot of other things but he does tick a lot of boxes. For what it's worth, the pros and cons as I see them.

Pros

  • Personal background indicates a good, strong character
  • Playing history means he'll probably have a decent amount of respect from the current squad and may be appealing to potential transfers.
  • Decent coaching history
  • As a new manager he may have fresh and innovative ideas
  • Links to Man Utd may get us some good player options for a January loan.

Cons

  • As a new manager he will be learning on the job and will make mistakes
  • He's never coached players at this level before: he's used to working with the best of the best as opposed to the rest of the rest.
  • He has no experience of the Championship and its unique demands
  • He has never played at this level before so he may struggle to adapt what he has learned as a player.

This would be a big challenge at the best of times and it is nowhere near the best of times. Mind you he's coming from working for several years at Man Utd while they have been flailing aimlessly and burning through players and managers so he presumably has ideas about how to address that. He's also coming in at a time when even a slight improvement in results and performances will be enough to keep us all happy. 

Overall, I think there's a decent chance he'll be a success in the short-term at least and there are more pros then cons. I would be happy with him.


Clive Hurren
Member
Joined: 4 years ago
Posts: 606
 

@original-fat-bob 

Many thanks for that insight into what preparation Carrick will have gone through, OFB. It’s really interesting and not anything I’d ever thought about. I do hope Boro (and MC himself) have been as thorough as you suggest. Nonetheless, I still think we need to get him fully involved at the earliest possible opportunity now, whether his coaching team is fully finalised or not. 

Anyway, it’s match day. Nearly time to put on the  Boro shirt, the red and white scarf and hat and the rose-tinted spectacles. Time to rekindle the enthusiasm and  optimism and get behind the lads. Come on Boro! 


Member
Joined: 4 years ago
Posts: 1250
 

Although not my first choice, as others have stated, I don’t think it’s a bad choice, we have tried old and experienced managers, the last three, so what have we got to lose. He comes in at not a bad time fixture wise, out of the 7 matches before the World Cup break, 5 are away (including tonight) and we know with our away crowd he will be given more leeway, then he will have 4 weeks training to change what ever he doesn’t like, plus have a look at the youngsters.

In the January window he might be able to attract players that will improve the squad, maybe some young up and coming talent from Utd on loan/buy. I know some will say why bring in young players from other clubs when we have an academy of our own but have we got the quality of say, Harvey Elliot ! 

As many have already written of this season (unlike myself) building for next season in the championship now is not a bad idea. Yes, I know we are 11 points behind the playoffs (or 12 behind second place) but with 32 games (96 points) to play for should we really be giving up !

Come on BORO.

 


Member
Joined: 4 years ago
Posts: 632
 

@martin-bellamy 

If you want to change something, then you would be well advised to change your approach. Which brings us to the subject of veteran Managers. Our history of veteran Managers is spotty at best, whilst our history of new Boys is not bad. Jack Charlton anyone? When they are from famous Clubs they come with fresh minds and a degree of confidence, plus, of course many friends in the game. Mr. Carrick was a well respected member of that well known and successful team and it's Manager, being part of the organization in his last playing season. The fact is that a lot of the leading Managers and Coaches come from the great teams and Clubs and it is reasonable that he should wish to start his career with a well financed club with most of the requirements for success in the game, i.e. Indoor and outdoor training facilities, a training staff which can be altered to fit his requirements, plus medical and physical requirements taken care of. We could not go on playing without any rhyme or reason, we will forget tactics because our present system most certainly has difficulty spelling the word. It is noticeable that the line of players who have been introduced to our club are, and I realise that this is unkind, are at best below average      


Member
Joined: 4 years ago
Posts: 2632
Topic starter  

Carrick is expected to be at the Wigan v Boro game this evening 

 

OFB


   
ReplyQuote
Powmill-Naemore
Member
Joined: 4 years ago
Posts: 1334
 

@deleriad 

I agree Deleriad, that I do not have the opinion Carrick is the wrong choice.

I mentioned previously that we can't know until well after the event that he will have been a good choice or a bad choice. I am happy that it is taking a (relatively) long time to get an appointment finally made. I would much rather that due consideration to who the club will select takes place than in the club being pressured into making a hasty appointment because it thinks it has to do so without any delay.

 

If at least part of the holdup is because we are having to negotiate with Stoke for John O'Shea then that appointment (O'Shea) will address the concerns you noted about having experience at this level. O'Shea has been with Reading before Stoke so could be an ideal partner for someone like Carrick. In fact, I think that would only leave the first "con" you mention that Carrick will be a rookie manager and so is likely to make mistakes. Mistakes I will be able to live with, so long as there is evidence that he learns from them and adapts accordingly. Let's face it, wizened old pros (Warnock, Pulis, Wild to name but three) are prone to making mistakes as well. The problem with "wise old heads" like these is that they are less likely to learn from their mistakes and adapt. So, perhaps being new and unproven is not always a bad thing.


Powmill-Naemore
Member
Joined: 4 years ago
Posts: 1334
 
Posted by: @original-fat-bob

Carrick is expected to be at the Wigan v Boro game this evening 

 

OFB

If Carrick is at the game tonight, can I review my previous dissertation ("Three nil Wigan") ?

With players out to impress a new boss we might witness an entirely committed Boro performance and on our day I honestly believe we can still beat any team in this division. So, how does my new thesis look ?....... "Three nil Boro" !!!

CoB


Member
Joined: 4 years ago
Posts: 954
 

I'm a bit baffled, doesn't take much mind. Is Carrick the manager? Nothing in the Gazette or N Echo. He seems to be favourite but no confirmation yet?

 


   
ReplyQuote
Member
Joined: 4 years ago
Posts: 1250
 
Posted by: @malcolm

I'm a bit baffled, doesn't take much mind. Is Carrick the manager? Nothing in the Gazette or N Echo. He seems to be favourite but no confirmation yet?

 

It is one of the headlines on Sky Sports football that he will sign the contract within the next couple of days and he is expected to be in the stand for tonight’s game, don’t worry about the Gazette they will report it next week 😂.

Come on BORO.


Member
Joined: 4 years ago
Posts: 1278
 

In fairness to the Gqzette, they are likely to be cautious about reporting too much in case it leads to their last few remaining journos being banned from home matches. 


   
ReplyQuote
Member
Joined: 4 years ago
Posts: 2245
 

@original-fat-bob.  Who will he be supporting! 🤣🤣🤣😎


   
ReplyQuote
Member
Joined: 4 years ago
Posts: 78
 

In apology extremis to Sir Len Masterman in not responding to his welcoming my return to the flock, in all honesty my friend (and I sincerely hope that you have no exception to me calling you my friend) I never left, and never will, this is my comfortable place when all is bad with the Boro, trust me I need to be in my comfort place especially right now.

Old soldiers from Typical Boro might remember my posts regarding that old faithful canine called Black Dog, the same old affectionate beast that affects more of us old fogeys than we care to admit.  I'm not asking for anyone here to admit to offering Black Dog a bone, all I'm saying is, that this platform opens up a lifeline to correspond with like minded Boro supporters and people that are feeling somewhat down at present, isolated, in need of support, or basically fed up with the Boro results to date.

My Black Dog is at heel right now and she (always have girls, they're far more understanding) will stay there even if the worst case scenario with the Boro occurs.  Why?  Simply because I have the most understanding wife ever, stand up Margaret and take a bow, and I have somewhere that my thoughts can be broadcast without being sweared at and vilified, it's the village Disaboro, I could willingly live there but does it have a pub?

This post was modified 1 year ago by Peasepudinperth

Member
Joined: 4 years ago
Posts: 1278
 

Teams news is in and I can’t see a left-back in it so assume it is 3-5-2 with Tommy Smith as the right centre-back.

Hackney in midfield with Howson and Crooks and Watmore and Akpom up front.


   
ReplyQuote
Site Creator
Joined: 7 years ago
Posts: 2230
 

Team News...

So Leo's last selection unless Boro are still chatting with Michael Carrick: Well it's Akpom and Watmore up top as Muniz heads to the bench - Jones and Giles both start but so does Smith so maybe it's a back four unless he's part of a back three - though could be a 4-3-3 with Jones more advanced. Hackney continues as does the lumbering Crooks.

Image


   
Liked by 4 people: Selwynoz, Original Fat Bob, Powmill-Naemore and Malcolm
 
ReplyQuote
Martin Bellamy
Member
Joined: 4 years ago
Posts: 1094
 

@peasepuddigperth That particular beast comes to visit me from time to time, although thankfully, infrequently of late.

I, too, am lucky to have an understanding wife and, in addition, a small black beast of or own, who goes by the name of Ralf. 

It’s good to see you back posting on here. Let’s hope our team reward you tonight. 


   
ReplyQuote
Member
Joined: 4 years ago
Posts: 1278
 

Wyke starts for Wigan tonight but thankfully no Ashley Fletcher. 

Elsewhere it’s Boro’s Watmore versus Wigan’s Whatmough.


   
ReplyQuote
Member
Joined: 4 years ago
Posts: 1159
 

@peasepudinperth - Thankfully no Black Dog for me.  I sometimes feel less than deliriously happy but never REALLY down. My wife & I have been married 41+ years and she is a tower of strength and can always make me laugh, which helps.  Anyway, the Throttled Toad calls.  There I will meet a few like minded friends but, for the moment, it will be glasses of wine rather than beer (for reasons of waistline).  I will have my radio earphones in, whilst the pub TVs will be showing the L'pool and ManU games (the latter is 45 minutes later).  Must go now.... or I will be late!

This post was modified 1 year ago by Forever Dormo

   
ReplyQuote
Member
Joined: 4 years ago
Posts: 1159
 

AND good to have you back (even if you didn't really go away).


   
ReplyQuote
Member
Joined: 4 years ago
Posts: 954
 

EG say no sign of Carrick


   
ReplyQuote
Member
Joined: 4 years ago
Posts: 1278
 

So it is a back four after all. Odd selection in that case with our best crosser at left back and our only natural left back on the bench, plus Muniz - a natural lone frontman - benched for Akpom who prefers a partner.

Looking quite comfortable so far though.


   
ReplyQuote
Member
Joined: 4 years ago
Posts: 315
 

Wigan poor but now 1 - 0 ahead!


   
ReplyQuote
Member
Joined: 4 years ago
Posts: 315
 

1 - 1. Jones from Watmore break down left wing.


   
ReplyQuote
Member
Joined: 4 years ago
Posts: 1278
 

Boro lacking a cutting edge but didn’t deserve to fall behind and did well to come back quickly to 1-1.

Wigan haven’t offered a great deal but all but one of the games best chances have still fallen their way with Steffen required to make a couple of good saves.

Bola, McGree and Muniz required sharpish for me to give us more threat up top. The game is winnable.


   
ReplyQuote
Page 3 / 5
Share: