Discussion Forum

Millwall v Boro
 

Millwall v Boro

218 Posts
24 Users
1293 Likes
3,588 Views
Martin Bellamy
Member
Joined: 4 years ago
Posts: 1094
 
Posted by: @exmil

@philip-of-huddersfield How did Bryan Robson, Steve McClaren, Gareth Southgate (sacked too early imho) Aitor Karanka do as MFC managers, all first managerial appointments.

Come on BORO.

I guess all managers have to have a first job before they can have others afterwards. All the GREAT managers started somewhere, so why not at the Boro? Do we still think we’re too good or important to blood new managers? If not us, then where?


   
ReplyQuote
Site Creator
Joined: 7 years ago
Posts: 2230
 

@martin-bellamy 

Just for balance, I would also add that all bad managers started somewhere too 😉 

It's hard to say whether someone starting in their first job will be either good or bad and indeed a potential good manager may have had their embryonic career thwarted by taking the wrong job at the wrong time at a club in crisis.

Would Bryan Robson have lasted as long without Steve Gibson's backing both personally and financially? Gareth Southgate was perhaps promoted too soon but he was a known quantity in terms of leadership skills. Was Jonathan Woodgate a good choice or Steve Agnew at the time they were appointed? Spotting a good manager before they have got a record is just a punt - some work others don't.

In the end an early management career maybe needs a fair slice of luck to continue into greatness - though perhaps many of those who flourished in past with their unconventional approaches would have probably failed in the modern environment with big squads and complex tactical theory and stats analysis. Plus let's not forget impatience to be successful in the first year or so. Can't imagine Sir Alex would have got five years to build his team in this era - he may have ended up managing West Ham or Southampton after 12 months today if he was lucky.

Still, if you're someone like Steve Bruce it seems there's always some club who thinks you're the answer - though that question was probably "Are you Steve Bruce?"...


Site Creator
Joined: 7 years ago
Posts: 2230
 

@andy-r 

I suspect Chris Wilder will be in another job soon and perhaps Alan Knill would wager his own future is better tied to his partner than risk going it solo and missing out on the next gig - but I guess you're right that keeping the coach who knows the system if the gaffer is prone to causing friction at the club is possibly the better option. Though I'm sure Wilder demands loyalty for putting his trust in his number two.


Ken Smith
Mr
Joined: 4 years ago
Posts: 2132
 

I enjoy Monday mornings reflecting on the results of the top European football leagues on my iPad, especially when on my travels throughout the continent. I used to buy the local sports papers such as Marca in Spain, Gazetta del Sport in Italy and A Bola in Portugal with a coffee and a small brandy and the local delicacies. Sadly now housebound and having sold my car, I still continue to do that at home in Redcar.

However I did have my favourite football teams and although never visiting any of the stadia on match days am still surprised at the number of First Division cities that I have visited. I have visited French cities with current Championat clubs the most, my favourite being Strasbourg (several times), but also Angers, Brest, Lille (twice), Lyon, Monaco, Marseille, Nantes, Nice (at Carnival time), Paris (several times), Rennes (twice), Troyes and Toulouse. 

Spanish cities are second most visited with San Sebastián my favourite (twice, the best tapas in Spain), Barcelona, Bilbao, Madrid (home of Real and Atletico), Mallorca, Sevilla (twice, also home to Real Betis), Valencia, Valladolid (several times on my way to the Algarve) and Vigo (home of Celta Vigo).

Germany with Freiburg being my favourite city, also Berlin (the home of Hertha and Union), Cologne (twice, the home of FC Koln), Frankfurt (my favourite German football team being the birthplace of my ancestors), Leipzig (with nearby Colditz Castle), Mainz and Munich (home of Bayern).

Italy where I used to pretend I was James Richardson the presenter of Channel 4’s Football Italia, my favourite team being Fiorentina and its city Florence, Lecce, Rome (home of Lazio and AS Roma) and Verona.

Belgium my favourite football team and city being FC Brugge (there is also another team called Cercle Brugges), Antwerp, Brussels (the home of Anderlecht), Ghent, Liege and Ostend.         

Holland where my favourite city and team is Amsterdam and Ajax, have also visited Rotterdam (best known for its two clubs of Feyenoord and Excelsior.)

Finally dear old Portugal, which I have missed most of all, my favourite team being Portimonense, but I’ve also visited Braga, Lisbon (several times with its famous teams being Benfica and Sporting Lisbon), Estorii, Maritimo (the team from Madeira and the only foreign club I have actually visited to see a match) and Porto (visited 3 times). 
 
Most of these cities I have driven to, but knew it was time to give up driving even locally as I’ve lost my confidence now. I’ve been very lucky to be able to afford to drive all over Europe, but all good things come to an end although I will still use Monday mornings to check on how my favourite European clubs are performing, and Saturdays and Sundays to check out how the English, Scottish and non league clubs are faring, and pleased to see that Darlington won for the 7th time in succession and are now second in the National League North.

 

 

This post was modified 1 year ago by Ken Smith

Member
Joined: 4 years ago
Posts: 2632
Topic starter  

If Carrick does become Boro manager and is not poached by WBA who are also interested here is an article with his preferred game plan and team set up

https://www.hitc.com/en-gb/2022/10/10/goodbye-wing-backs-how-michael-carricks-middlesbrough-xi-could-look/

OFB


   
Liked by Malcolm and Andy R
ReplyQuote
Martin Bellamy
Member
Joined: 4 years ago
Posts: 1094
 
Posted by: @ken

I enjoy Monday mornings reflecting on the results of the top European football leagues on my iPad, especially when on my travels throughout the continent. I used to buy the local sports papers such as Marca in Spain, Gazetta del Sport in Italy and A Bola in Portugal with a coffee and a small brandy and the local delicacies. Sadly now housebound and having sold my car, I still continue to do that at home in Redcar.

However I did have my favourite football teams and although never visiting any of the stadia on match days am still surprised at the number of First Division cities that I have visited. I have visited French cities with current Championat clubs the most, my favourite being Strasbourg (several times), but also Angers, Brest, Lille (twice), Lyon, Monaco, Marseille, Nantes, Nice (at Carnival time), Paris (several times), Rennes (twice), Troyes and Toulouse. 

Spanish cities are second most visited with San Sebastián my favourite (twice, the best tapas in Spain), Barcelona, Bilbao, Madrid (home of Real and Atletico), Mallorca, Sevilla (twice, also home to Real Betis), Valencia, Valladolid (several times on my way to the Algarve) and Vigo (home of Celta Vigo).

Germany with Freiburg being my favourite city, also Berlin (the home of Hertha and Union), Cologne (twice, the home of FC Koln), Frankfurt (my favourite German football team being the birthplace of my ancestors), Leipzig (with nearby Colditz Castle), Mainz and Munich (home of Bayern).

Italy where I used to pretend I was James Richardson the presenter of Channel 4’s Football Italia, my favourite team being Fiorentina and its city Florence, Lecce, Rome (home of Lazio and AS Roma) and Verona.

Belgium my favourite football team and city being FC Brugge (there is also another team called Cercle Brugges), Antwerp, Brussels (the home of Anderlecht), Ghent, Liege and Ostend.         

Holland where my favourite city and team is Amsterdam and Ajax, have also visited Rotterdam (best known for its two clubs of Feyenoord and Excelsior.)

Finally dear old Portugal, which I have missed most of all, my favourite team being Portimonense, but I’ve also visited Braga, Lisbon (several times with its famous teams being Benfica and Sporting Lisbon), Estorii, Maritimo (the team from Madeira and the only foreign club I have actually visited to see a match) and Porto (visited 3 times). 
 
Most of these cities I have driven to, but knew it was time to give up driving even locally as I’ve lost my confidence now. I’ve been very lucky to be able to afford to drive all over Europe, but all good things come to an end although I will still use Monday mornings to check on how my favourite European clubs are performing, and Saturdays and Sundays to check out how the English, Scottish and non league clubs are faring, and pleased to see that Darlington won for the 7th time in succession and are now second in the National League North.

 

 

That’s an impressive list Ken. We’ve driven extensively in France and parts of Northern Spain. We’ve done Portugal a couple of times too and loved Porto. I wasn’t keen on the Algarve (I’m not a beaches and lager person) but the northern part of the country was ace. 

I’d disagree on the best tapas/pintxos venue though - it would be Bilbao for me every time.

We loved the Cathar countryside in the south of France although we had to take the Defender as the Campervan broke down 9 miles from home.


   
ReplyQuote
Member
Joined: 4 years ago
Posts: 632
 

@martin-bellamy 

It's fine for you to talk sense, and it is sense, but unfortunately everything you say points to exactly what the fans are screaming at the club. How can we employ a string of people who stand by and watch players who are, by some distance, not Good enough, not fast enough, not motivated enough, any change we make is a step backwards, anyone who shows the least talent is introduced to the subs bench, until he is loaned out. Then sold. Just in case you think I  exaggerate consider the following, if you watch any of our recent matches, you will notice that our entire team has a touch of the slows, i.e. Everyone of the opposition players is lightening fast. This points to a totally unfit for purpose training setup, as the very first thing you must be Good at is running very fast for a very long time. I'm afraid the answer is going to be very painfull and will have to be administered soon.   


   
ReplyQuote
Pedro de Espana
Member
Joined: 4 years ago
Posts: 1120
 

@ken     Nice story Ken.

I feel very lucky to have seen probably most of the important Spanish cities, and love northern Spain, which was easier to fly up from Malaga and hire a car. San Sebastián is my favourite also for tapas.

Also on our first trip to Madeira I was given permission to go and watch Marítimo play Benfica, when they were one of the big boys. 2 nil to Benfica.

There is a saying Ken, which so true. It better to live with memories than dreams.


Pedro de Espana
Member
Joined: 4 years ago
Posts: 1120
 

@original-fat-bob   Whilst I appreciate there would be little choice for any change of line up, this would be like pouring water through a sieve. Mowatt and Howson. Unbelievable.


   
ReplyQuote
jarkko
Member
Joined: 4 years ago
Posts: 2161
 

@pedro and @Ken 

I have also seen Martimo playing in their rather spartan home ground in Madeira, too. 

A more posh stadium is that of CD Nacional - they also often play on the highest level in Portugal. This is a club where Cristiano Ronaldo started his top level career after a junior team. The ground is more up in the hills in Funchal. The academy is named after him.

But the best place for me to have a holiday is on Teesside and North York Moors 😇. I will there again on Friday. Up the Boro! 


Site Creator
Joined: 7 years ago
Posts: 2230
 

@original-fat-bob 

At least some positives over Michael Carrick - good man-manager, good communicator and good at telling midfielders how they should be playing. While the article thinks he would favour 4-2-3-1, perhaps given like Karanka he coached under Mourinho it's no surprise - though I think the author of the article maybe let himself down by speculating Mowatt and Howson as the midfield pairing and suggesting McNair will be the key player under Carrick because they once played together at United. It will be interesting to see what he does as if expected he's appointed - I still think it's a risky gamble but I hope he can live up to his billing and be a success.


Ken Smith
Mr
Joined: 4 years ago
Posts: 2132
 

Having written about my European travels I have to say that there’s no place like home. We’re spoiled for scenery here on Teesside being on the brink of the North York Moors, the beautiful market towns of Yarm and Helmsley, the stunning views of Teesside from Captain Cook’s Monument, Roseberry Topping, Eston Nab and Cringle Moor, the pretty seaside resorts of Runswick Bay and Staithes (pronounced Steers by the locals and once visited by Wilfred Pickles in his radio programme of ‘Have a Go’ in the late 1940s - I bet very few diasborians remember that), and perhaps the longest stretch of sand in Britain from Saltburn to Paddy’s Hole in South Gare (the mouth of the Tees), and finally the largest stretch of purple heather heathland in Europe I’m led to believe. 

I always look at the BBC Weather website for Redcar every morning on my iPad and there are some stunning pictures by our amateur photographers (today it’s Marske that catches my eye). We tend to take it all for granted, yet it takes the Dutch and our adopted Teessider Jarkko from Finland to remind us how lucky we are. I’ll miss it all now being housebound, but the happy memories will linger on forever.

This post was modified 1 year ago 4 times by Ken Smith

Ken Smith
Mr
Joined: 4 years ago
Posts: 2132
 

According to today’s Yorkshire Post, West Brom are keen to sign Michael Carrick as their new manager with Chris Wilder as an alternative.


   
ReplyQuote
Member
Joined: 4 years ago
Posts: 642
 

@Ken

Wilfred Pickles and Mabel also visited Great Ayton, 'Canny Yatton' I think they called it.

If I was in West Brom's shoes I'd go for Mr Wilder, perfect fit, experienced, knows the Championship, doesn't really need a job...

UTB,

John


   
ReplyQuote
Ken Smith
Mr
Joined: 4 years ago
Posts: 2132
 

 @John Richardson

And it was Violet Carson best known for playing Ena Sharples in Coronation Street, who played the piano. One episode was recorded from the old Pier Ballroom in Redcar; my parents got tickets whilst I stayed at home supervised  by a female ‘baby sitter’ who I had a crush on at the time.

This post was modified 1 year ago 2 times by Ken Smith

   
ReplyQuote
Site Creator
Joined: 7 years ago
Posts: 2230
 

Depending on which media outlet you read or listen to, then Michael Carrick is either "closing in" on the Boro job or "will hold talks today" over the role. Much of what is written is mainly no information regurgitations of already posted speculation from another source - click-bait no doubt purely aimed at getting views as nothing other than more speculation ever emerges.

Sky Sports are the ones reporting Michael Carrick will hold talks today but then again they also suggest that both Scott Parker and Sean Dyche are in Boro's thinking - god help us if that's what they're really thinking! Apparently they also say Carrick was recommended to Steve Gibson by Gareth Southgate - More journalistic imagination based on joining imaginary dots I suspect...


   
ReplyQuote
Member
Joined: 4 years ago
Posts: 642
 

@Ken

Violet Carson, she used to be on Children's Hour too. Childhood crushes... now there's a thought!

UTB,

John


   
ReplyQuote
jarkko
Member
Joined: 4 years ago
Posts: 2161
 

@ken The argest stretch of purple heather heathland in Europe...

The reason I visit in the autumn time for a while. Some hiking planned and we stay two nights in Robin Hoods Bay. Could not find a place in Staithes. But we have been there before.

Eston Nab and Cringle Moor are places I have not yet visited.

Up the Boro!


   
ReplyQuote
Member
Joined: 4 years ago
Posts: 2244
 

So Leo in charge again this weekend with a new manager not expected to be named until next week. 

https://www.gazettelive.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/leo-percovich-continue-middlesbrough-interim-25232134 😎


   
ReplyQuote
Site Creator
Joined: 7 years ago
Posts: 2230
 

@k-p-in-spain 

Next week sounds optimistic after reading that article where there's still no shortlist with a dozen candidates being interviewed along with all their prospective backroom staff...

[the process] is proving time-consuming for Boro because rather than just a dozen candidates to speak to, it means they're trying to arrange and hold nearly 50 interviews, some with people who are currently employed elsewhere, and therefore with the added need to get permission to do so.

I think Leo may still be in charge against Norwich at this rate with their first choice probably snapped up by West Brom before they offer him the job...


   
ReplyQuote
Member
Joined: 4 years ago
Posts: 149
 

Jarkko, if you are ever looking for a place to stay in the middle of the moors I can highly recommend looking at a couple of options in Church Houses, a little village in Farndale just down below the Lion Inn on Blakey Ridge. 

The first option is cottage rental.  There are a number of recently converted cottages for holiday rent by Farndale Cottages - https://farndalecottages.co.uk - and we had a terrific week in one of them in June.  The cottages are a very, very short walk to the village pub, The Feversham Arms, which is run by a lovely lady called Rachel, serves good food and drink and has a beer garden with spectacular views.

The second option is to stay in the pub itself which has a number of rooms available to book - http://www.fevershamarmsinn.co.uk.

Just don’t go in Spring when the daffodils are out because Farndale is rammed with people who come from all over to see them.

 

 

 


   
ReplyQuote
Member
Joined: 4 years ago
Posts: 632
 

@werdermouth 

The incidence of Good managers emerging from powerful clubs is pretty Good, so on those grounds I would be in favour of the Manchester man. After all, he must spot the non-coaching  at once, so blatant is it. I am inclined to think that our entire group of players should be sent to boot camp for a week and be subjected to extreme stamina work, followed by speed work, After which the starting eleven can be sorted out plus subs, loanees called back, and played. Then we will see who is who or what.    


   
ReplyQuote
Member
Joined: 4 years ago
Posts: 1249
 

It’s interesting, in the gazette article posted by K P above, that the back room staff have been mentioned as well as the manager, so reading between the lines, I think it’s the total cost of the new manager package that is being taken into consideration and rightly so. A new name has entered the contest today, see below:

https://footballleagueworld.co.uk/former-bayer-leverkusen-coach-emerges-as-middlesbrough-managerial-candidate/

Come on BORO.

 

 


   
ReplyQuote
Member
Joined: 4 years ago
Posts: 2244
 

I like the idea of moving to an overseas coach as it should introduce new thinking and ideas to the group; same old same old has not worked in the last four/five seasons so why not give something different a go. 😎


   
ReplyQuote
Member
Joined: 4 years ago
Posts: 2632
Topic starter  

So they’re off ?

Its the runners and riders in the hurdle that is the Boro managerial stakes and the odds are changing with every stride of the race.

Will it be an overseas runner that sweeps to victory? With German, Portuguese or Dutch entries? Or will a late newcomer from Spain Rafa Benitez enter the race?

The Boro stakes have had a Spanish entry before which enjoyed success but have had greater victories with entries from Manchester.

The unknown entries in prior races were the Robbo and Mack who both proved worthy winners. 

So my money is going to be on the Geordie to win by a length!

Lets face it if he’s good enough to be recommended by the Starting Gate (think  about it !) he must be the favourite…..

Place your bets perrrleease…..

Me?

You know I’m a good Geordie lad so you know who I’m gannin fer hinny!

OFB


   
ReplyQuote
Member
Joined: 4 years ago
Posts: 1159
 

The most common criticism made by new management appointees is that "I recognised very early that work was required on the players' fitness.  If players aren't fit, they start to make expensive mistakes as their energy levels fall".  Maybe we will see groups of players chasing each other up and down the sand dunes at Coatham, or there will be sprints up Roseberry Topping.

Can I add that I have enjoyed reading the travel history given by Ken, and responded to by others.  That has been more fun than thinking about the football recently.

On the other hand....  Maybe the secret to doing well as a football manager (apart from being a good man-manager, maybe having some luck and actually, you know, understanding a bit about football) is to find a club currently fighting below its normal level. If you get things "back to normal" you have at least made some improvement.  I suspect Boro's level is the upper reaches of the Championship with the occasional foray up to the Premier League or a few decent cup runs.  Relegation from the Championship is defintely BELOW our expected place in the football world.  At present, Boro seems to be at the lower end of its normal trajectory so, on that basis, the only way is up.  Cue the music...


Member
Joined: 4 years ago
Posts: 643
 
Posted by: @forever-dormo

On the other hand....  Maybe the secret to doing well as a football manager (apart from being a good man-manager, maybe having some luck and actually, you know, understanding a bit about football) is to find a club currently fighting below its normal level. If you get things "back to normal" you have at least made some improvement.  I suspect Boro's level is the upper reaches of the Championship with the occasional foray up to the Premier League or a few decent cup runs.  Relegation from the Championship is defintely BELOW our expected place in the football world.  At present, Boro seems to be at the lower end of its normal trajectory so, on that basis, the only way is up.  Cue the music...

There was some research done about "revert to the mean." Basically, if you sack a manager after a bad run and get a "new manager" bounce, was it going to happen anyway? So they tried to find teams on similar bad runs who didn't sack their manager and check whether they tended to get a bounce. It turned out, that performances after changing a manager and without doing so, seemed broadly similar. Which is to say that changing the manager, even if you do get a new manager bounce, may have actually been irrelevant. 

You do figure that our squad is good enough to get far better results than it has been. Then again, fans always say that. I remember under AK when everyone was saying "let off the handbrake." So we got rid of AK, let off the handbrake and immediately drove over the edge of the cliff. 

My feeling is that any half-way competent manager will improve our position because I think Wilder, for whatever reason, had become a problem. However it is clear that the players are at a really low point and the club does feel pretty divided. Watching Sunderland 'til I die a while back, it showed how a group of players who were as good as any in the league could get relegated because the club was divided. I feel like there's a distinct chance this could happen to us. 


Member
Joined: 4 years ago
Posts: 1159
 

@deleriad - We cannot deny that with Boro 21st out of 24 in the league (and therefore one place and only 2 points above the relegation places as I type this) there is a distinct chance relegation could happen this season. I don't EXPECT it to happen but clearly it could unless something is done to change the performance of the players and therefore, over the rest of the season, the results.

If the manager gives the impression of not being able to things around then there is no alternative to appointing a new manager.  If a ship is headed towards the rocks and there is no change of direction, the end result is inevitable.  Hopefully the new manager, or management team, can effect that change of direction.  It might not need major surgery if, as we are constantly told, the margin between success and failure is very small.  Tiny incremental gains, the cyclists are told, make the difference.  There is plenty of time, so long as action is being taken.  My fingers are crossed.

This post was modified 1 year ago by Forever Dormo

Member
Joined: 4 years ago
Posts: 2244
 
 
Latest report on search for a new manager, Carrick not expected to be new boss!
😎
 

   
ReplyQuote
Site Creator
Joined: 7 years ago
Posts: 2230
 

@k-p-in-spain 

To be honest, all these media reports on who's about to be appointed or has been ruled out appears to be nothing more than Chinese whispers fueled by journalists pretending they have inside information.

Having an interview suddenly makes you the favourite and not being offered the job after that interview then rules them out - didn't they get the memo that there's 50 coaches to be spoken to before anyone will be even considered for the shortlist? btw does anyone know how long a shortlist can be before it's deemed no longer short? Perhaps we need a journalist to offer us their insight on that conundrum!

Here's what a recruitment specialist suggests...

When you’re hiring for a role, having gathered up a group of applicants with the right skills, experience and attributes to progress further is something to celebrate. Then to speed up the process you should then make a shortlist. Your shortlist should only include candidates you genuinely believe could do the job and who would fit in best with your organisation's culture. While there isn’t a fixed 'right' number of candidates to include on a shortlist, the ultimate goal for a shortlist is to narrow it down a to between three and five people.

I would probably suggest three in Boro's case as there's probably some urgency in making the appointment and little chance in Steve Gibson getting the Qatar World Cup delayed...


Page 6 / 8
Share: