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Watford v BORO
 

Watford v BORO

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Selwynoz
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BORO away v Watford

Vicarage Road

Saturday October 5

3.00pm London (12.00am Sydney)

 

This opportunity to investigate the history of Watford and Middlesbrough has certainly thrown up some unexpected facts. I’m starting with the old history which might be surprising to some of you, moving on to their heartwarming more recent history and then finishing with the managerial merry-go-round and a quick review of what they have achieved this season. As they are playing Wednesday night this week, I have waited until that game is finished before posting this introduction.

As many of you know, Middlesbrough FC – using whatever name was current at the time – was established in 1876. Watford isn’t quite as old, having been established in 1881. This seems normal and the same as many clubs that we play. One would imagine that this would give rise to a similar record over the years. However, this is not at all the case.

Despite being founded five years apart in the reign of Queen Victoria, the first Football League game between Middlesbrough and Watford did not take place until October 1966, at a time when both teams were in Division 3 having approached that level from very different directions.

Watford won this game 2-0 but Middlesbrough won the return fixture 3-0 in February 1967 on the way to promotion back up to the old Second Division. Given the age of a lot of the people on Diasboro, can anyone remember the game and who scored for Boro? I’ll give you time to think and I’ll slot the answer in down below.

In fact, the game in 1966 wasn’t the first game between the two sides. That came in the 1923/24 season, details of which I’m sure are engraved in the memories of our older supporters.

Having started in the Northern League in 1988/89, Boro were promoted to Football League Division 2 at the end of the 1898/99 season and made it to the Holy Grail of the First Division in 1902/03.  That made us one of the top teams in the country.

Everything went ok until 1923/24. Boro were having a lousy season, but it looked as if they had a good shot at some redemption when they were drawn at home in the first round of the FA Cup against a mid-table club from the Third Division South. I don’t know what the weather was like on Jan 12, 1924 but by the end of the game, the mood around Ayresome Park would have been very sour as Middlesbrough lost 1-0 at home to Watford. Season 23/24 didn’t get much better because we finished bottom of the table and, for the first time, were relegated to division 2.

Watford really were at the opposite end of the spectrum from ‘big’ Boro. We had shocked the football world as early as 1905 by our extravagance, shelling out the first ever Pds1,000 fee for Alf Common. Watford, on the other side, had rattled round the Southern League with a few titles at different levels, including the First Division in 1914/15. They also came second in the post-war resumption season of 1919/20. This was good timing because it led to them being invited to join the new Football League Third Division in 1920/21. There were two sections of 22 clubs fighting for promotion to the old Second Division – which Watford never managed – and trying to stay out of the bottom four clubs (two from each side) who had to apply for re-election. They did finish in the bottom two in 1926/27 but were unanimously re-elected after a vote by clubs in Divisions 1 and 2 (including Middlesbrough).

Given the relative position of the two clubs, that 1924 result must have been one of the great FA Cup upsets and we didn’t get the chance to recover our pride for another 43 years when we finally beat them at Ayresome Park in the 1966 match mentioned above. [Boro goals on that day in 1966 came from Arthur Horsfield and two from Derrick Downing.]

Surprisingly, to this day over 100 years later, we have never again played Watford in the FA Cup. One game in the League Cup in 1999 – which we won 1-0 – and the rest in various divisions of the Football League.

In fact, since that initial league game in 1966, Boro have done a good job of avoiding Watford. We went up to Division One in 73/74 (Hail JC, Jack’s great year) and then went down in 1981/82 which was the year that Watford finally achieved their dream promotion to the First Division (more of this shortly). It wasn’t until 1989/90 that we were again in the same division – Division 2 – and in the years since then both clubs have rotated round each other between Divisions 1 and 2, the Premier League and the Championship.

Our ability to avoid each other is illustrated by the fact that we have only played each other 44 times. To put this into comparison, we have played our recent opponents Stoke (founded 1863) 108 times, played top level stalwart Arsenal (founded 1886) 132 times and played Blackburn (founded 1875 and who always seem to have been playing us in my earliest memories) 143 times. Anyway, to round out the Watford page, of the 44 games we have played against them, Boro have won 17, drawn 9 and lost 18; so, let’s hope that we can even up the ledger on Saturday.

I want to also point out that there has only ever been one 0-0 draw between the two sides and that happened on Jan 14, 2017. I mention this because I had travelled all the way from Australia to catch up with my family in London for the 2016/2017 holidays and the birth of my granddaughter. As part of the trip, I agreed to take my youngest son to a Boro game in the Premier League. Watford v Boro fitted in, and, despite no goals, it was great fun and good to remember that I had coerced my daughter – who lives in London – into signing up as a member of Watford so that we could buy tickets. That game marked the first appearance of Rudy Gestede who nearly scored with a header after coming on a substitute. Another transfer that didn’t work out, but he did have a great set of names; Rudy Philippe Michel Camille Gestede.

Looking at Boro’s team, it’s hard to understand why the season went so sour. We were 1-0 up with 5 minutes to go away at Manchester United on New Year’s Eve, managed to lose 2-1 and pretty much everything went downhill from there.

The Yellow Brick Road

Moving on from these dark years, for most modern football supporters, the years that really put Watford onto the football map started in 1976. That was the year when young Reggie Dwight took over as Chairman of Watford. They were in Division 4 but he vowed to see them into the First Division. For many of us, this is the supporter’s dream writ large. Who of us has never dreamed of taking over his home club and guiding it to the success that it has always deserved. Unfortunately, it very rarely works out…. but not in Watford’s case.

In 1976, Elton John (Reggie to fans) topped the charts around the world with Kiki Dee and in 1977 he created an even more famous duo. He sacked the Manager and appointed Graham Taylor. What magic spell was cast, I don’t know, but history was watching. The club immediately won promotion from Division 4 to Division 3, went up to Division 2 in the next year and then, after two years of consolidation, made it up to Division 1 in 1982. Like Boro, they have been there or thereabouts ever since.

Their first year in the top division in 1982/83 nearly saw the ultimate fairy story play out but, in the end, they finished second behind Liverpool, making it into the EUFA Cup. For those who love this kind of stuff, Luther Blissett was First Division top scorer and signed for Milan for Pds1 million. You couldn’t make it up. One of the fastest rises of any club in the history of the Football League? Maybe - or maybe not - but Watford were established as a club in the top divisions and every supporter of the club had seen their dreams answered.

Since then, Watford have been FA Cup runners-up and bounced around the Premier League and Championship. They are now perhaps best known in the football world for their accelerated turnover in managers and head coaches. This has particularly been the case since the Pozzo family took over in 2012. The list is too long to list here but there have been significant successes as well as failures. 2022/23 saw them start the season with Rob Edwards as manager. He was released after 11 games in charge and was replaced by Slaven Bilic. Edwards ended up getting promotion with Luton. Bilic lasted until March 2023 and was replaced by Chris Wilder who lasted until the end of the season. Valerien Ismael took over for season 23/24 but couldn’t last the year, being replaced by Tom Cleverly as Head Coach for the last few games of the season. Tom Cleverly is still Head Coach and it is his team and tactics that Boro will face on Saturday. Tom C was in charge for the last game of last season when the two teams met at the Riverside with Boro winning quite easily, 3-1.

2024/25 – Watford to date and tactics.

Played 8            Won 4                Drawn 1            Lost 3

W 3-2 A v Millwall

W 3-0 H v Stoke City

W 2-1 H v Derby County

L 0-1 A v Sheff Utd

D 1-1 H v Coventry City

L 1-4 A v Norwich City

W 2-1 H v Sunderland

A 0-3 v Preston North End

Goals for           12

Goals against     13

After their 3-0 defeat at Preston in the last round of games, Watford are sitting 8th with 13 points, 1 point and one place behind BORO who have 14. In their eight games to date, they have conceded 13, the most goals conceded of any team in the top half of the table. They have scored 12 which is not bad and certainly suggests an open style of play.

Their actual results this season could be split into three groups of three and categorised as good, bad and ‘not sure’. They started the season with three wins on the trot against Millwall, Stoke and Derby, three teams who currently sit in in 16th, 15th and 14th positions. This saw them joint top of the table.

In their next three games, they only took 1 point from 9, losing away to Sheffield United who are currently sitting 3rd, drawing at home to slow-starting Coventry who are in 17th and losing badly at Norwich who sit 10th.

Finally, we come to the third trio of matches. Boro is the third of the three and will lead into another international break. Last Saturday, Watford seemed set for a draw at home before a stone-cold and incredibly stupid penalty was handed to them by current league leaders Sunderland and they gladly took the extra points. Last night (Wednesday) they played away at Preston and were well-beaten 3-0 by a side who were only recording their second win of the season and after the win still sit in 21st spot, just above the relegation line. Quite how this run of three games will be viewed is very much dependent on what happens against us.

Looking ahead

Midweek, Watford were no doubt watching when Boro put on a near-master class against West Brom. It will be interesting to see what Tom Cleverly makes of it. Watford have been described as a relatively carefree team who like to attack. However, they have now taken just 4 points out of their last fifteen against Boro’s ten. Will he reign things back and try to stop Boro counterattacking or will he play a more open style. Is he looking over his shoulder at his trigger-happy owners.

One thing that we know about Michael Carrick is that we know he will play Plan A and probably double down on Plan A if he needs to. My guess is that Carrick won’t change the team from the Wednesday night starting XI and I think that we have a good chance of winning. The only thing that history tells us is that, given that I won't be there, it’s unlikely to be 0-0.

UTB

This topic was modified 5 months ago by Selwynoz

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A very interesting and comprehensive piece of research, Selwyn, matching the high quality of your previous openers .It's a fascinating and original comparative history, which i thoroughly enjoyed  Thanks for all of your hard work.


Powmill-Naemore
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What a super piece to open the thread Selwyn. A lot of work in that and the result speaks for itself. Well done.

It would be nice to think as well, that Boro's and Watford's form over the last seven days also speaks for itself and Boro should be nailed on to collect three more points. But thisvis the real world and we all know it is far too soon to think Boro had at last found its form. That said, the signs have certainly turned positive.

Here's to a third win on the trot to go into the break with all of us on a high. I will borrow OFB's Boro3 for this one.

 


   
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Many thanks Selwyn for a highly informative opener.

My gut feeling is that we are catching Watford at the right time as their form has dipped just as ours has improved. The caveat is that their manager and fans will be expecting a reaction after what must have been a hugely disappointing 0-3 defeat at Preston, although I'm sure there's a stat out there somewhere about Preston not losing a midweek home match in forever.

Hopefully we're just two games into one of those long winning runs that Carrick seems to put together. Another 1-0 to the Boro would be just fine.


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Thank you Selwyn for your excellently researched starter which was detailed, informative and a joy to read; including two blasts from my past, Arthur Horsfield and Derrick Downing.

After Tuesday’s performance I am looking for more of the same please.  

A point away from home is always a good point but given the last two games would be slightly disappointing.  

Three points please and continuance of a winning run of games. CoB. 😎

 


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Crikey Selwynoz, yet more superb scholarship to start the ball rolling towards the Watford game. Exceptional work and research as all of the lead articles have been. I am quietly optimistic about this game but saying no more than that for fear of applying the hex on Boro.

A slightly superstitious Boro supporter, never. I'll leave that to the Marton Oracle and his fall-back 'the eyes in the sky.

As always, thoughts with Exmil.

UTB,

\John


Martin Bellamy
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Another masterpiece - thanks for the starter Selwyn. 
I’m feeling confident enough to predict another win on Saturday - it’s 1-2 from the Sherburn massive. 


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Good one, @Selwynoz.  I got one of the 1967 scorers against Watford right - I had a feeling that Derrick Downing must have scored a trademark diving header at the far post but imagined the other goals were from John O'Rourke and John Hickton.

I'd be happy with the three points on Saturday. I am feeling unsettlingly confident about the game, as if BORO might just be starting to get it right. Is it greedy to wish that "getting it right" wasn't something you start to feel in October?  It would be great to have that feeling right at the start of the season in August.

Come on @Exmil.


jarkko
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An excellent starter to the blog, Selwynoz. Thanks. Easy to see you have spent some time writing that peace.

I just wonder did anyone notice the Stoke result of yesterday. Striker Tom Cannon scored four times as the Potters thrashed Portsmouth 6-1 on Wednesday. The Potters were not good at Boro, but now hit six goals. So they cannot be a bad team.

I hope it means we must be doing something correct as we easily beat Stoke.  Up the Boro! 

This post was modified 5 months ago by jarkko

Selwynoz
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Topic starter  

@Exmil

Sorry to have forgotten you in my intro. I hope that everything goes brilliantly.

UTB ... and Exmil


   
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Selwynoz 

A superlative well researched opener which continues the ever growing professional writing that is within this blog. We certainly bring the best out of each other and the standard keeps getting higher and higher. Many thanks it’s appreciated.👏👏👏

I hope that any would be writer of a future preview thinks “ I can’t reach that standard of writing and doesn’t attempt to do a preview!” Let’s face it we are all different with alternative skills and attributes. Everyone who writes a preview is appreciated and for those thinking of contributing please do so as it’s great to see the  varying thought processes that the Boro have about the team, players and strategies.

OFB


   
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Exmil

Hope all is well and you are on the road to recovery. The thoughts of all your friends on Diasboro are with you at this time.

🙏

 

OFB


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So the Marton oracle is peering through he gloom of the mists on the moor, searching for the sign that will show where we are heading.

Trudging past the Grey Towers onto the fields of Bonnygrove and beyond he sees a signpost that is momentarily glimpsed as the mist dispersed.

Does it point the way ? Does it show him where to go ?

Of course it does it simply says .

Middlesbrough3 !

OFB


   
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Without raising too many hopes and stirrings of a promotion feeling  I am starting to think that Boro have the makings of a promotion side. 

From the days of watching Charlton’s Champions, Rioch’s Reds  and Karankas defensive play this team of Carrick ball excites me.

The passing movement that led to the goal against WBA the other evening was a joy to watch.

Each player is aware of their role within the team and appears to be growing into their allotted position with more potential to come.

COME ON BORO LETS DO IT THIS SEASON.

OFB


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Many thanks Selwynoz for what was fully comprehensive opener with no gaps in your Watford preview - plus I like the sound of Cleverly’s team playing open football that should suit Boro’s Game.

Pity I won’t see the game as we’re away in Berlin until Sunday enjoying the city sights and atmosphere. 

Though once again the usual travel drama as our car developed an engine problem 75km from Berlin with the engine warning light coming on while on the motorway with the system then restricting our speed to 50mph - not ideal on a motorway without speed limits!

Managed to make it to Berlin but German AA had no emergency service as was a bank holiday and said they could only bring our car back to Bremen within 14 days and give us train tickets home. Thankfully, their mechanic arrived today to certify the problem but ended up fixing  a faulty sensor so we’ve escaped no car for 2 weeks and a train journey home with more luggage than we could carry 😓

Anyway, hoping for another Boro win to take us into the break and also hope Exmil’s operation has gone well too 🤞


Powmill-Naemore
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Has anyone heard from @Exmil?


   
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@powmillnaemore 

I would imagine he's only just out of the ICU, the operation could have been up to six hours long and is, I would imagine a Thoracectomy(?) is pretty serious stuff.

We'll all have to keep pulling for him, most important, I hope he's feeling a lot better by the middle of next week.

All the best to Exmil and everyone else too.

UTB,

John


   
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jarkko
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I hope Exmil will be back latest after the international break.  Like Howson.

All the best, Exmil. Up the Boro! 


   
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Boro team news is in! One change

One change as Hamilton starts ahead of McGree. Clarke returns to the bench too.


   
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Pedro de Espana
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@selwynoz. Apologies and belated thanks for your superbly researched Headliner.

We have been away this week and I have just sat down and seen the team news. 

A rest for McGree?  Let’s hope Hamilton can step up to the mark. 


   
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Pedro de Espana
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What a miss from Azaz. We just cannot go on missing these sort of chances. 


   
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@original-fat-bob - I had to smile, OFB!

"It's a sign!"


   
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@pedro - Continued missing of chances can prove expensive.  But if we get ONE, Watford will have to open up.


   
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Unfortunately, so far it’s the same old problem against a poor team who are defending deep, when we get chances we are failing to convert.

This is very much in the balance and we have been lucky not to concede on the few occasions Watford have broken out of their defensive formation.

Only one shot on target out of eight needs a vast improvement in the second half. 😎


   
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Pedro de Espana
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Boro once more dominating possession, however only 8 shots and only ONE on target.

A glaring miss by Azaz who considering how much he has had the ball, has not done a lot with it. Same with his dead ball kicks. I really think this number 10 position is a problem for us.

Ayling and Doak making opportunities down the right, but down the left, not much at all. Hamilton tends to come inside and has not taken a man on yet. Obviously being right footed makes it difficult.

The second half we really need to up our game and feeding into Latte Lath. If we don’t then one of these breaks by Watford or the couple of half chances they have created will end in a goal. Then then all the possesion will of counted for nothing.

If we continue like we have, subs on early please.


   
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Pedro de Espana
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@forever-dormo Let’s get the one first Dormo


   
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As requested Pedro!  A GOAL!  A two-yards toe-poke from Edmundson after 54 minutes.  Thank goodness!

This post was modified 5 months ago by Forever Dormo

   
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Another maiden Boro goal, this time for George Edmundson in the 54th minute following a free kick taken by Azaz.  Now, can the boys hold on?

This post was modified 5 months ago by Stircrazy

   
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Posted by: @pedro

Boro once more dominating possession, however only 8 shots and only ONE on target.

A glaring miss by Azaz who considering how much he has had the ball, has not done a lot with it. Same with his dead ball kicks. I really think this number 10 position is a problem for us.

Ayling and Doak making opportunities down the right, but down the left, not much at all. Hamilton tends to come inside and has not taken a man on yet. Obviously being right footed makes it difficult.

The second half we really need to up our game and feeding into Latte Lath. If we don’t then one of these breaks by Watford or the couple of half chances they have created will end in a goal. Then then all the possesion will of counted for nothing.

If we continue like we have, subs on early please.

Jones & McGree on for Doak & Hamilton in the 64th minute, HH booked in 23rd minute.

13 shots on goal so far, six of them on target.

 

This post was modified 5 months ago by Stircrazy

   
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Posted by: @stircrazy

Another maiden Boro goal, this time for George Edmundson in the 54th minute following a free kick taken by Azaz.  Now, can the boys hold on?

Sadly, the answer to that is no, unless they can add another goal:  the Hornets equalise in the 75th minute.  :{

 


   
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