WBA v BORO
The Hawthorns, West Bromwich
20h00, Tuesday 1st October 2024
SKY SPORTS MAIN EVENT
|
|
Played |
W |
D |
L |
GF |
GA |
PTS |
POS'n |
|
WBA |
7 |
5 |
1 |
1 |
12 |
5 |
16 |
1st |
|
BORO |
7 |
3 |
2 |
2 |
8 |
5 |
11 |
8th |
It was Sunday afternoon and we were still taking in all the various observations following what has been a rather less than common occurrence for the Boro so far this season: winning a game that we really ought to be winning if we expect to be in the promotion mix next spring. But, already the next fixture is almost upon us with a visit to The Hawthorns scheduled for Tuesday evening. Horror of horrors. It is my name on the rota to deliver the opening post for the thread,,,,, Aaaarghhhh, So apologies to all, before you start to read this. It is very lastminute.com.
As it happens, WBA has been one of the teams strongly favoured to finish in the top 6 this year in the COTS challenge. 16 of us have chosen the Baggies to do so. Only Burnley and Leeds United attracted more votes for a top 6 finish, both of which having been selected by 18 of us. As things stand this morning West Brom are sitting proudly at the top of Division Two, or the Championship as we are obliged to call it these days. This despite an unexpected reversal at Sheffield Wednesday on Saturday. Happily Sunderland failed to capitalise on West Brom’s defeat by losing at Watford, so we don’t have to contemplate our local rivals being top of the class – well at least not today.
Boro of course took all three points against Stoke to end the day in 8th place, comfortably in touch of the top 6 and only 5 points adrift of the Baggies. When I say “comfortably in touch”, I am sure many in here would probably think it more accurate to say we are “uncomfortably in touch”. Boro’s performances over the first 7 games have been at best a mixed bag. We certainly haven’t found any consistency or fluidity on the field of play yet, so to find ourselves still so close to the leading pack is really quite fortunate. In fact, should we win on Tuesday we will reduce the gap to current leaders West Brom to only 2 points. Even should Sunderland or Blackburn win (home to Derby and away to Coventry) the deficit to the top would then only be 4 points. So lots to hope for and to play for.
For all the what sometimes comes across as doom and gloom in these pages, we really are quite well placed just now. The results on Saturday are a timely reminder that it is still early in the season and it is more than just Middlesbrough that is still bedding down its newcomers and finding a more genuine form. What I didn’t mention yet is that while there are 16 of us predicting West Brom for the top 6, there are also 16 of us that predicted exactly the same for Boro. There is a very long way to go yet, but most of us clearly thought Boro and West Brom were going to be closely matched this season and perhaps that is how it is beginning to look right now.
All the same, Wednesday has shown on Saturday that on Tuesday we should have every reason to believe we can win the game. Certainly we can expect West Brom to bring the game to Boro. In fact, and to be fair to them, WBA really dominated in the game at Hillsborough and arguably Wednesday grabbed their opportunities against the general run of play. So it is extremely unlikely The Throstles* will sit back on Tuesday night. That, of course will play into the narrative that a lot of us here have discussed: Boro’s main problem (well apart from the other main problem of always seeming to gift a goal to our opponents) is that we do not look capable of finding a way though against teams parking the bus, so should do well against teams that play more openly. Hopefully some of the more direct and incisive movement that was evident at least in the first half against Stoke will be there again on Tuesday. Surely McGree has to start. Hackney must also take heart from a better performance and a great goal to continue to rediscover his better form. I for one, am really quite confident about the game. (I hope that hasn’t put a jinx on us.)
* The Throstles:
You don’t so often hear West Brom being called The Throstles these days. The Baggies seems to be the preferred nickname to use. “Throstle” is actually an old English noun for a song-thrush, but if you are curious as to how this bird became associated with WBA, then read on.
Apparently at one time donkeys were grazed on West Bromwich’s open common lands. Either because of an acute and endemic hearing dysfunction, or because the local townsfolk had a witty sense of humour, the braying of the donkeys was likened to the tuneful song of the thrush. In time the locals became known as “throstles”. It was then a natural progression for the town’s football team to adopt this connection to the bird. The thrush or throstle has a prominent position on the club’s crest, but it also became an affectionate nickname for the club.
Here’s hoping the only donkeys on the pitch on Tuesday will be wearing broadly striped shirts!!!
Another cracking starter, Powmill. The Throstles derivation was extremely interesting - I’m sure there are times when we’ve thought our team should be called the donkeys!
I’m quietly confident about the game too - 1-2 is my optimistic prediction.
@martin-bellamy Sometimes Boro have reminded me more of Monty Python's Philosophers XI with their slow meditative play!
Powmill, great stuff and thanks for the Song Thrush link too. Anyone happy with a draw?
UTB,
John
Powmill
Lastminute.com turned into master opener.com
As it often said “That’s the way to do it !”
I feel very confident about getting a result on Tuesday and would be disappointed if we don’t win !
The Marton Oracle is peering out of the gloom and forecasting …..
1-2 Boro win !
Oh I do love this team when the players are starting to gel ! Because the gel turns into gelagnite and it’s explosive stuff !
Alternatively if they don’t play well it turns into Gelato !
Which is a soft sticky mess !
OFB
Thanks Powmill-Naemore for an interesting article, especially about the “Throstles” but where did the term “Baggies” come from 🤔.
I am looking forward to the match on Tuesday, I think it will be a tough game with the odd goal deciding it. I also notice our Saturday’s opponent, Watford, don’t play until Wednesday at Preston.
Come on BORO.
Thanks Powmill-Naemore for an interesting article, especially about the “Throstles” but where did the term “Baggies” come from 🤔...
Funnily enough I did think to research that as well, but as it happens, I have also been allocated the reverse fixture in the roster that @AndyR kindly put together before the season got under way, so I do need to keep something interesting to write then !!
Thanks for an excellent opener, Powmill. You may well be right that the Baggies will take the game to the Boro, but that hasn't been Corberan's approach on our previous two visits to The Hawthornes.
Two seasons ago we appeared to be playing them off the park but went in 2-0 down at half-time thanks to two breakaway goals from which we never recovered.
Last season in one of the early games that we lost, we threw the game away when Tommy Smith got himself sent off by pulling his man back after he had already been booked. A combination of madness and stupidity.
Nevertheless we were getting back into the game and dominating possession early in the second half when Engel made one of the errors of the season, passing the ball back to the keeper from close to the halfway line and seeing it intercepted and netted by the Albion striker.
The game was effectively over but apart from two crashing mistakes we played with a good spirit and our heads never dropped.
Corberan may well be happy to let us have the ball and break down our flanks, where we continue to be vulnerable. In this respect we may well miss Jones's defensive contribution, which has been largely been ignored in recent assessments of the player.
Doak was deservedly M-o-M on Saturday, but having dominated the game the Boro were fortunate not to go in at half-time on level terms, after a cross to the far post was wasted by two unmarked attackers. Doak was nowhere to be seen, but having a diminutive winger tracking back to the far post is a possible weakness that Corberan will no doubt have noted.
I think that Carrick is right: this is a game between two good sides that we should all look forward to. I think it will be closely contested, but fear that the Baggies may just have too much for us.
Head says 2-1; heart 1-2
A splendid opener, Powmill. Thank you.
This is likely to be a tough game. I think they’ll want to win and impose themselves after a surprise defeat at Hillsborough. I imagine that Ben Doak will find himself a marked man, but if they opt to put two men on him that should free up space to exploit elsewhere. I’ll settle for a point.
Great opener thank you Powmill, another enjoyable and informative read.
I agree that tomorrow will be a tough game and I will be surprised if Corberan allows his team to come at us; he is a shrewd tactician and has out thought us in the past, as Len pointed out.
I watched the Baggies against Portsmouth a few weeks ago when they won by three goals to nil and were the best side I have seen this season (Boro apart).
They are well organised and move the ball quickly when going forward. Alex Mowatt could do with being man marked as he not only pulls a lot of their strings but is also scoring goals - 3 so far this season.
A draw would be a good result, albeit we could do with another win.
1-0 the baggies I am afraid for me, but hoping I am wrong. 😎
🤫So you throstled Andy for bagging you the return fixture as well?
🤔
OFB
Thank you Powmill that intro was very interesting. Somebody somewhere has probably done a phd on the interaction of football and the industrial revolution. Your observations on songbirds donkeys and commons in the Midlands made me think of the changing landscape in our towns and cities over the years. There was a time within living memory when the Boro squad would run up Green Lane into countryside which now comprises the far end of Acklam Road. WBA have been threatening promotion for several years. Too strong at home I reckon. 2-0 WBA (I am hoping this will jinx them) Chris
Chris, Funnily enough I did the leader piece last season on the West Brom v Boro game which looked at the historic parallels and similarities between the two communities which supported the teams, though I don't know whether it's still retrievable.
Chris, Funnily enough I did the leader piece last season on the West Brom v Boro game which looked at the historic parallels and similarities between the two communities which supported the teams, though I don't know whether it's still retrievable.
Hopefully this is the link to your piece last season Len. It is still as good a read today as then.
https://diasboro.club/forum/2023-24/west-brom-v-boro-league/#post-24046
@lenmasterman Thank you Len - and Powmill for the link. It really is a very good read in a distinctive style. Great traditions coming from proud communities. I was lucky enough to chat with Wilf Mannion in his later days. What price a player like that in tomorrow's game? Chris
Thanks for the retrieval powmill. Much appreciated
@powmillnaemore Nice piece and interesting aswell. I can really symphasize with the Headline writers, having to produce something different for each opposing team.Not easy done.
As for tomorrow night, WBA 2 Boro 1. I just not think we will be able to keep a clean sheet against them or score two goals. I also agree with Len, Doak could be a weak link defending.
Can I just say how enjoyable a read @powmil's Starter was, and all the replies so far? (Particular mention to be made of @OFB's throstling interjection and Len's piece).
Realistically one would expect the team to come back from the midlands with nothing. Football sometimes doesn't do what is expected and clubs' supporters are often not very realistic when predicting the outcome of games their teams play. So that will be WBA 1-2 BORO, and a flag being provocatively thrust into the ground, then! A statement win by a team about to start on a golden run of winning games...
(I don't want to give the wrong impression here. No bipolar disorder - or at least any diagnosed disorder. But it would be absolutely TYPICAL of Boro to go away to the top of the league team and confound all expectations. Obviously it is not beyond the bounds of possibility that I might regret these words in less than 24 hours but, what the heck...let's GO for it!).
Great intro powmill. Have great memories of my only visit to the Hawthorns when we won 4-0 under Jack Charlton. I have looked at who west Brom have played so far this season and their fixtures are very similar to ours with very few top teams played. The highest placed team they have played is Leeds who drew 0-0 at the Hawthorns. Like us they have beaten Stoke and Swansea. Their other wins are against Plymouth, Portsmouth and Plymouth. So this might be seen by them as a bit of a test, who knows.Also remember last season after game 7 we went on a long winning run. Referee tomorrow is David Webb who had our game at Cardiff a few weeks ago. Not sure where he is from but refereed in the Northern League at the start of his career.
It seems to me that this season will be a fascinating mix of games where the opposition seeks to impose their style on us and games where the opposition coach seeks to create a plan that is specifically designed to stifle our forward passing momentum.
Stoke tried to attack and couldn't cope with our system whilst Sunderland, like Coventry in prior years, managed to completely confuse us and eked out a 1-0 win.
If someone attacks us them we play our own game and try to beat them. That's obvious. But what of the alternative.
People attacked Carrick for not coping with Sunderland and we were very poor in the second half but what would have been the response if it had ended as a drab 0-0. Would that have been so bad. Maybe that is the secret for us to react to tactically astute teams who look to stifle us. Give them the ball and look not to lose.
Which way will West Brom go? Would we take the 0-0 draw if Corberan offers it?
UTB
@powmillnaemore Belated thanks for the starter. A good read.
Been travelling for two days now - about 850 km driven in total. This to the North ( re: last Saturday's arrival from Barcelona). So nice to be back home and watch the WBA match live on TV via Viaplay.
I hope we play as well as on Sat. Then the result Dormo nailed down could be possible. I will be happy with that. Up the Boro!
@jarkko - I'd be very happy with the 2-1 win that I predicted but, since @Selwynoz asked, I WOULD take the 1-1 draw if such an outcome were to be offered by Corberan.
Son-and-heir asked if I'd be OK with 4 points from our away games at WBA followed by Burnley. The answer was "YES!".
Sadly such deals are rarely on offer in the Championship.
Thanks for all the kind comments everyone. I really was feeling a little disappointed in my offering, so I am mightily relieved it was not as bad as I thought.
Now, as the time for kickoff starts to get closer, I have been reflecting on the optimism I expressed in the opener, that I think we will do well, profiting from a WBA that will not park the bus.... The closer we get, the more I am beginning to doubt myself and I keep hearing Len's words about how Corberan has the measure (tactically) of Carrick repeating themselves at the back of my mind.
How will this play out tonight?
1) The way Len (other quality posters are available) suggests - WBA sitting back letting us not break through and ultimately shooting ourselves in the foot.
2) The way myself (and one or two others) has thought, that WBA will be on the front foot to get Saturday out of their system, so playing to our strengths.
3) Maybe a bit of both...
I am currently coming down on the "a bit of both" side. I expect their support will be behind them and encouraging (or maybe even inciting) them to press forward. If the strategy of Corberan is to sit deep and let us have the ball, then the crowd will be impatient with that, which in turn translates into pressure on the team from the atmosphere of their own support. In this scenario I see that there may well be one or two, or more opportunities presented to Boro in the first 30 minutes. The trick will be for Boro to convert one such opportunity. Should we score first, then WBA has no option but to increasingly come out and at Boro, further playing to our strength.
There is the potential for a great football contest tonight. I hope so and if it is, I am going to cling to my optimism and we will prevail.
Alternatively, it could be drab a dull 0-0 with Sky producers wishing they had taken their cameras off to Norwich for the evening !
Anyone remembering the Ashley Fletcher wonder goal and Boro's surprice win at WBA a few years ago? I cannot remember the year, but AF is now playing at Blackpool - playing six times with one goal in the League One this season. He is just 28 year old now.
A performance like that by Boro would do nicely today, thank you. Up the Boro!
@jarkko Here it is, from every angle imaginable https://www.facebook.com/MFCofficial/videos/goal-of-the-decade-ashley-fletcher-v-west-brom/988046234921732/
Barely had a chance to sit down the last few days, so firstly many thanks to Powmill for thrushing out a last minute opener that flowed perfectly and set us up nicely for the biggest test of the season.
I'm probably more confident of a result tonight than I've been in recent weeks after seeing several players performing at close to their best at the weekend. It's a tough question as to how West Brom will set up tonight but knowing Corberan he will likely have done his homework on the best tactics to deploy against Boro.
However, I'm hoping that defeat against Wednesday at the weekend will make him overthink and cast a few doubts in the mind of their players. The first goal will be key and possibly the home crowd's desire to see their team attack will likely encourage several of their players to be more positive than maybe their manager would wish in certain situations.
For Boro pace and width will be key if there's no room to get behind the Baggies defence - I'm still wondering if Jones down the left is something that would help unlock the puzzle if Doak plays again down the right. Obviously that would mean Azaz missing out and McGree being the number ten but that would give Corberan something unexpected to deal with as he may have planned for more of the same.
Defensively, depending who is fit then I wonder if the left-footed Edmundson could play at left-back for added security as Borges was caught out a few times on Saturday and may well be targeted by Corberan as a potential weak link.
Anyway, maybe it's just me overthinking and it will be a similar set up for Boro as against Stoke...
The home page still has all the games from last season with links to all the previews, match reports and video highlights - I just need to get round to getting up-to-date with this season as summer holidays, gardening and good weather has kept me on mostly outdoors but I feel the chill of autumn and shorter days will see me looking to indoor activities again 🙂
This evening's starting XI:
As predicted by CJ, earlier: one change: RvdB for Dijksteel. Good to see him back in the starting line-up.
Marcus Forss also on the bench in place of Law McCabe.
This evening's starting XI:
As predicted by CJ, earlier: one change: RvdB for Dijksteel. Good to see him back in the starting line-up.
Marcus Forss also on the bench in place of Law McCabe.
CJ's thoughts on the line-up:
It's the one change that was expected then - meaning, for once, my predicted team was right!
It's one change and it's harsh on Dijksteel, who was once again solid on Saturday. But with Rav deemed fit enough to start this evening, you have to put him in for a game of this magnitude. Josh Maja up top for West Brom is the top scorer in the Championship, so Rav and Edmundson will need to be on their toes, with Grant, Swift and Wallace no doubt causing a nuisance as per.
Another injury boost for Boro sees Marcus Forss back on the bench having recently returned to training. Great to see him ready to take that next step.
That said, there is unfortunately still no Matt Clarke and Tommy Conway in the squad, as they miss a second game. Carrick is hoping neither are serious and believed both could be back before the international break, which leaves Saturday at Watford a possibility for both.
Ideal that Boro are otherwise unchanged. Particularly in attack, where Doak and McGree were making their first starts for some time, it's great they came through well enough to start again this evening because they both made a big difference on Saturday.
I can understand the nerves, @Powmill-Naemore. I share them. As for the line-up it would be pointless asking me to predict. I have now seen it. I had no idea Forss was sufficiently near to full fitness to get onto the Bench tonight. I'm pleased to hear that. Somehow if there's a chance, a one-on-one, I have more expectation of a goal from Forss than anyone else in the squad.
Fingers crossed. I don't suppose, with a wave of ballistic missiles launched from Iran towards Israel this evening, people in that part of the world will be thinking of football. Fingers crossed for them, too