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Boro v Sheffield Un...
 

Boro v Sheffield United

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Clive Hurren
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Wednesday 23 October, 20.00

Boro v Sheffield United

Let’s start with the Wilder factor, shall we? Frankly, I can’t stand the man. I don’t think he ever ‘got’ Boro, in the way that, say, Robbo, Mogga or Warnock did. To Wilder, I think we were just a stepping stone on his journey to somewhere ‘better.’ Fans didn’t warm to him, never mind the players, who it seems turned against him after he declined to rule himself out of the vacant Burnley job, and performances went downhill from there. He’d been tipped to lead us to promotion and came close to the playoffs in his first season, but we were clearly heading the opposite way when Steve Gibson pulled the plug. I rather suspect it wasn’t just results on the pitch which forced the owner’s hand and that there was probably something in Wilder’s overall attitude. I was glad to see him depart. He didn’t like the recruitment team’s work, didn’t like having Kieran Scott working alongside (or above?) him, and publicly labelled some of the new recruits, including Marcus Forss, as ‘development players’. Unlike Carrick, he wasn’t prepared to put in the effort to coach players to improve, preferring to buy in the ‘finished article’, and he rarely used players from the academy. Never a man to accept his part in a defeat, he often openly criticised his players to the media, a trait he honed finely during last year’s relegation debacle with Sheffield United, which of course was nowt to do with him. To misquote Kevin Keegan, I would love it, love it, love it if Boro were to give The Blades a really good stuffing. And whilst I must stress that I have absolutely no axe to grind with the club itself, I would love it even more if CW presided over a further decline in their fortunes, such is my dislike of the guy. Ouf, I enjoyed that rant. Hugely cathartic!

The Blades were the worst team in last season’s Premiership by a country mile, and indeed one of the worst in the league’s history, conceding over 100 goals, and suffering many humiliating heavy home defeats with even the Geordies banging 8 past them. How fortunate manager Wilder didn’t lose his job is anybody’s guess. We could be kind and say the hierarchy had planned strategically for life back in the Championship, perhaps calculating that Wilder couldn’t possibly be so poor again in a lower league from which he had once before led the Blades to promotion? And so it has proved, thus far at least.

This was the EG’s view last week: ‘Ironically, the game is 24 hours before Wilder’s eventual successor celebrates (at least hopefully!) his two-year anniversary at the helm. Wilder left Boro not on the best of terms but had previously enjoyed a solid period in charge of the club as he guided the team on a run that saw them narrowly miss out on a top-six finish while also providing some memorable nights in the FA Cup, including that penalty shoot-out win at Old Trafford and the win at a sold-out Riverside over Tottenham.

He’s now back at Sheffield United, where pre-season concerns surrounding takeover uncertainty have so far proven misplaced. Starting on minus-two points, the Blades are joint-top, unbeaten and have conceded just three goals in nine games. This will be a huge test for Carrick's side.’

That was written before Friday’s defeat at Leeds. Nonetheless, we can probably expect this to be our toughest home test so far. United would be in third place (on goal difference) if they hadn’t begun the season minus two points. Their form is good, obviously. Ours is ……. erm, inconsistent, which is putting it kindly. Two consecutive defeats with no goals scored is worrying. I  have no doubt Wilder will get his troops psyched up for this one. He’ll have a score to settle with us, I’m sure. The most untimely and tragic death of former defender George Baldock last week will also probably add to their determination to do well.

They lost several of last season’s ’big names’ (most of them flops, as it happened) in the summer, including Cameron Archer (deep sigh) and Ben Brereton-Diaz, but did well to retain our old Coventry nemesis, Gustavo Hamer, Bosnian defender,Anel Ahmedhodzic, and Brazilian defensive midfielder, Vinicius Souza. Hamer is currently top scorer with 4 goals and Souza has been nominated in the Championship team of the season to date. Let’s hope he isn’t as good as the Brazilian Vinicius who plays for Real Madrid! Notable new acquisitions include lumbering Welsh international, Kieffer Moore, and ex-Coventry man, Callum O’Hare.

United’s record to date is impressive:

P10 W6  D3  L1  GF12  GA 5 PTS 19

The draws were home to Norwich and away to QPR and Portsmouth. They’ve beaten Watford, Luton, Swansea and Derby at home, and Hull and Preston away. The loss, their first of the season, was Friday’s defeat at Leeds, which will no doubt strengthen their resolve to get all three points on Wednesday.

So this will be a mighty tough challenge. Losing to Bristol City wasn’t expected, but we can hardly call it a shock, as Boro yet again created and missed chances and presented an average side with two gift-wrapped ones of their own. The first of those elements, a misfiring forward line, has been the story of our season so far. We could have seen that coming on Saturday. Of late, though, our previously watertight defence has started to spring leaks ominously.

On the last thread  Selwynoz wrote: ‘ It would be typical of Boro to turn it on against Sheffield United, one of the best defences in the league.’ Let’s add to that the fact that only 4 sides have scored fewer goals than us. In these circumstances, I would normally think a draw would be a positive outcome. Unfortunately, a draw might widen the gap to the top six further. We will obviously be absolutely desperate to get all 3 points in this game, and pressure from a discontented crowd if it’s going pear-shaped may increase the players’ anxiety.

I’m scratching around for anything optimistic to write. Boro usually play well under the lights. Our unbeaten home record, such as it was, has gone. And our form in front of goal has to improve some time. We’re still 5 points better off than we were at this stage last season, and it’s still early days in a long season. We have a strong squad, at least potentially. I would play both Forss and Conway on Wednesday - goals have to come from somewhere. And United don’t score many goals. A home win is on the cards, then, clearly!! 🤭😉

What do you think, fellow Diasboro sufferers? Are you retaining a scintilla of optimism, or are you sinking into a slough of despond? Can you envisage a win over The Blades?

 

This topic was modified 2 months ago by Clive Hurren

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Loved it !

 

Especially the hatchet job on Wilder I hate the man for all the reasons that you’ve written !

OFB

 

oh go on then

Boro3 Wildebeest 0


Clive Hurren
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@original-fat-bob 

Wonderful, Bob! Thanks! 


   
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Many thanks, Clive, for your excellent opener which I enjoyed reading.

I really enjoyed the majority of Wilder's time at Boro. After the Pulis-Woodgate-Warnock years it was fantastic to see us playing some really enterprising, attacking, passing football not seen at the club for far too long. I was amazed at how quickly a group that had been so specifically drilled under Pulis and Warnock picked up such a different style of play, and how quickly it became effective. That run that culminated in us beating Forest at home - a Forest team who were absolutely flying under Steve Cooper and would eventually get promoted - and I think Bournemouth (who were also a top Championship team), as well as the cup run, really had me excited about where we were going.

For me, it was ultimately disagreements with the club hierarchy that halted the momentum and scuppered both Wilder's, and Boro's, charge. His time is now seemingly defined by the Burnley debacle - one he handled extremely poorly - but I wonder if that would have been a thing if Wilder and the club were on the same page in the first place. I think Wilder knew that the club wanted to go in a direction that he didn't and everything transpired from there. There is blame on both sides for me and I see his time in charge as largely a missed opportunity.

In terms of personality and media work, Carrick has, admittedly, been a breath of fresh air. Where Wilder was spiky, emotional and critical, Carrick has been polite, calm and supportive. He is a much better fit for the club's strategy and a far steadier hand whilst retaining a style of football that is easy on the eye.

At least it is in the middle third of the pitch, which sadly has become the only third where Boro are consistently performant.

I mentioned a while ago that, in Carrick, I saw worrying echo's of Mowbray's time in charge. Mowbray had, of course, taken over from Strachan - like Wilder, a spiky character that many fans didn't warm to. Mowbray initially transformed the team into a possession-based one that played good football but had some work to do to reshape the squad with limited funds. Fans were understanding of that and largely patient but expectations had significantly risen going into the 2013/14 season, the first season for which Mowbray was expected to deliver a serious promotion challenge. It didn't happen. Instead we became a side that dominated possession but gave away daft goals and couldn't put the ball in the back of the net. Confidence spiralled, fans fought amongst themselves and Mowbray was ultimately sacked in late October.

I'm not at all expecting Carrick to be sacked but there is now some audible unrest for the first time, as he too is overseeing a side that often looks good but isn't delivering when it matters, in a season when expectations were high.

Perhaps what Carrick needs to do is change things up a bit, and at least appear to be trying to find solutions. I don't expect a big change in approach. After all, Boro concede comparatively few chances and create a fair few, its just that the chances we do concede are big ones that are usually punished and we're missing seemingly all our good chances. Changes in personnel need to be considered though.

McGree will surely return, most likely on the left for Hamilton. As well as Edmundson has settled, we may also see Clarke restored who has arguably been our best player this season. There will be calls for Forss or Conway to start ahead of the misfiring Latte Lath.

For Sheff Utd, it's fair to assume that we'll be the side trying to counter so, personally, I would put McGree in the no. 10 role and drop Azaz, then bring Isaiah Jones in for Hamilton. For this game, I'd probably keep ELL up front to give us the fastest front three we can muster, with our best creator in McGree behind them. In "easier" games, when we get back to being camped around the opposition's penalty area, then I'd be more tempted to go with Forss or Conway up front.

Of course, the season so far has felt very "typical Boro". In that case, we should win on Wednesday night.


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Massive thanks to Clive Hurren for his excellent Starter Piece and to Andy R for a thoughful response.

I don't dislike many people and I don't have many arguments or disputes with others.  I am prepared to make an exception, however, for one of the coaches who will take the field on Wednesday at The Riverside. No names, nor pack drill, but if I remember correctly he was summarily dismissed for gross misconduct ("Here's a box, please go now to your office with this security man and collect your belongings from your desk.  You can leave the ID fob/lanyard with the Receptionist on the way out") and no compensation was paid. Very unusual in a high-paying job.

I agree that Boro's most creative player is Riley McGree.  For me, and apparently also for Maddo, he'd be my first name on the team-sheet.  Forss is the most likely to score if though on goal. He gets shots off and a high percentage are on target. Latte Lath is having a season to forget, so far.  If you have a fit Conway now available to slot into the striker roll, and you don't take that option when Lath is having a lenthy nightmare, when would you do it?  After 20 games? It would be good if Lath could recover the form he had in his "good period" last season, but what if we go another 10 games like this?  Where would Boro then be as a promotion candidate?

I wish Sheffield United was NOT the team taking field at The Riverside on Wednesday.  Like all football games, all results remain possible before a ball is kicked. But the possibility of a home defeat, and the team being booed off like at half-time on Saturday against Bristol City is very real and worrying.  Not good for OFB's heart...

This post was modified 2 months ago 2 times by Forever Dormo

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I feel better for reading that gentle and subtle opinion of Wilder. I completely agree with all you said about the hypocrite. Now I feel better too, thanks Clive.

Oh a super headliner too.

Andy, I think most of the oppositions scoring chances have been created by Boro, they  are becoming damned hard to watch as you wait for the inevitable ricket as we pass our way out of defence.

UTB,

John


Clive Hurren
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@andy-r 

That’s a brilliant post, Andy. I do agree that Wilder brought in an exciting brand of football which was a breath of fresh air, as you say. But I won’t ever forgive him for the other baggage he carried around with him, which I perhaps gently hinted at in my opening paragraph! 


 gt
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I queried at the start of the season,if we needed to bring in the number of players we did, a big squad usually brings more issues, you can't play everyone,and worse which ones do you pick, 

Players need to play regularly in order to get into rhythm with each other, bringing five subs on when chasing a game is ludicrous, you lose pattern.

You can't say we are a bad team, but I think Carrick as vision of what he wants but is sticking with players who maybe can't quite grasp it, they don't react off the ball.

I do think we need two new fullbacks, or wingbacks , a goalkeeper who can save the shots rather than play as a sweeper , by the way what's best a 6ft goalie with long arms or  6-4 ft goalie with short arms.

With this squad I think it's crying out for 3-5-2 formation 

Goalie

Rav , Edmondson, Clark

Ailing Hackney Morris Mcgree , Borges

Latte Lathe, Conway

This is  based on the current squad, we would have a strong bench, 

The team could be tweaked depending on the opposition, if the opposition play with a high line it's calling out for a Burlaser knocking balls over the top for both strikers to run on to.

Anyway these are my current thoughts, it's frustrating right now, keep the faith as they say.


Martin Bellamy
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Top quality work, Clive. We’re away in Scotland but I’m hoping I can watch the game on my iPad. I’ve no idea what the result will be but anything other than a defeat is essential I think - another loss and the natives may start to revolt. 


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Excellent piece, thank you Clive and also to Andy for his post which is also very appropriate.

I initially enjoyed CW’s reign, which as Andy pointed out was a breath of fresh air compared to the playing style of his predecessors.

The fact that he didn’t put paid to the Burnley rumours and was openly hostile to what the recruitment team were doing left him isolated and out of kilter with the direction in which the club was going; his ignominious departure was inevitable and by that time I for one was glad to see the back of him.  

Despite all that he will return with a team which is not good enough for the PL but more than a match for anything in the Championship and given our current fragility, this will probably be our biggest challenge yet.

MC won’t change the system so it has to be the personnel, McGree has to start and I would also start Forss and Conway; I have wondered for a long while if MC has been over protective of players returning from injury or international duty and wonder if now is the time to let go the reins.

0-0 for me at best but who knows! 😎


jarkko
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@clive-hurren An excellent starter, mate. Hugely enjouable.

And a great post by gt, there, too. I was surpriced how many players we bought in this summer when there were hardly anyone leaving. A big squad is not always an advantage (only when injuries need that).

How about Howson? We might need our captain in the midfield. That said, I love Hackney and Morris in there. But perhaps we need a leader to get us through this bad patch when scoring seems to be a problem. Someone wrote about the lack of a leader very recently. 

Having said that, I thought before the season got underway, that Latte Lath is a leader. But now he needs some help like Howson starting, perhaps? Up the Boro! 


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Quality opener Clive, especially paragraph one. As for Wednesday I would love us to turn Shef Utd over, not that I have anything against Utd, just the manager. What does Carrick do, change the side that is making chances that the same players are not putting away, or change the players who might still lose without making as many chances. Unfortunately on Saturday, after meeting with my pre match friends (no alcohol) I just didn’t have the energy to make the ground and got my son to bring me home at 2, watching the match on TV. I am making another attempt on Wednesday, this time going straight to the ground after conserving my energy all day, as Rosemary told me on Saturday, she admired my decision and I should take into account it was only two weeks since I had a major operation.

My thoughts on the starting 11 does not involve major surgery, I would have Clarke and Van Den Berg as CB’s (although I like Edmundson), Ayling has recently had a few mistakes in him but would Dijksteel offer something more 🤔, midfield Hackney, Morris, if Howson was to start it would have to be for Hackney. Doak has to start on the right but we need to get more in the box when he goes past the defence (not just Lath), all strikers go through periods where it just won’t go in, but I would give him another 60 minute start. McGree has to start on the left with either Conway/Azaz as the 10, just my humble opinion guys.

Come on BORO.


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Home !

OFB


Martin Bellamy
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@original-fat-bob I’ve just caught up on your hospital issues and I’m so pleased you’re home. Hope all the problems are solved in the Gerry-built Pacemakers.


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@exmil.  Sorry you didn’t make the BC game as planned but pleased to hear it was because you made the wise decision not to push too hard in these early days of your recovery; hopefully your strength will build as each day passes and sufficient enough to make tomorrow’s game. Best wishes. 😎


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Brilliant Clive. Wouldn't expect anything else, of course!

Regarding CWs reluctance to use academy players, the case of Hayden Hackney stunned me at the time. Clearly, the coaching team, especially Leo, must have been very well aware of HH's capabilities and have been pushing hard for him to be given a chance.

When Leo chucked him straight in at the first opportunity and he went on be an ever present till, till well now, it made graphically clear to me how negligent CW had been in not giving him even a sniff of a chance.

This post was modified 2 months ago by Peter Surtees

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Thank you Clive that was a great read!

Here was I thinking you were such a mild mannered bloke. CW is clearly not your favourite manager; for me he is a competent old school manager (i.e. believes there should be no such thing as a head of football above him) who is a bit of a marmite character. He is a bit pompous and tends to deflect blame (sandwich anyone?)

It is obvious that a fair amount of Blades supporters love him and consider him as one of their own.

When he left Boro we were struggling a little bit - we had injuries and I feel we would have turned the corner with him in charge. His dismissal as others have suggested may have been as much about off-pitch matters as the team's performance.

Nonetheless his current team is motoring in the Championship and should be favourites against us. Having said that Boro will be smarting from Saturday, will probably have a tweaked starting line-up (McGree and Connolly starting I reckon) and be playing more on the counter, which should suit us. 

1-0 Boro!

Chris


Clive Hurren
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Hope you get to the game on Wednesday, Exmil. At least you’re up and about again and mobile. Take it easy as your recovery continues.

I’m glad you’re home, too, OFB, and I hope you’re feeling much better. 

Best wishes to you both. Here’s hoping Boro give you both (and all of us) a real tonic on Wednesday. 


   
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Conway even!


   
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Powmill-Naemore
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Posted by: @chris-from-barlby

Conway even!

for some reason I thought you were referring to that famous Scottish comedian, Billy  Conway...😉

 

This post was modified 2 months ago by Powmill-Naemore

   
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Powmill-Naemore
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Excellent opener @clive-hurren. As my wife would say, "Don't you be sitting on that now. It's better out than in."😉

If I am honest I went full circle about him from his ime at Boro. Initially  I had thought it was  brilliant appointment and in that first season it did look that way. At least until Burnleygate it did. He lost the dressing room then and our form dipped immediately with us falling to make the playoffs. However, the start of the following season was even more awful, with  Boro looking realistic prospects for relegation.

He clearly hadn't made himself at home with us and whatever went on behind the scenes, that he didn't get a pay-off speaks volumes. 

What also speaks volumes is that the most outstandingly poor team from the Premier League last season is currently looking like [one of] the strongest team[s] in the Championship. Is that more a reflection of the gulf between the top league and the second league, or is it a reflection of the manager, or perhaps a bit of both.

Like others I think on balance I would love it for Boro not just to blunt the Blades on Wednesday night, but to put them to the sword. I think I would also love it for them to fail to get promoted. That latter wish is as much to do with not wanting to see any relegatedctwam always bounce straight back as it is about not wanting to see an untrustworthy manager succeed.

As for Boro. Please, NO MORE DEFENSIVE HOWLERS. For up front I would like to see Connolly (😉 @chris-from-barlby) up front with Forss, and McGree has to start.

We can do this and I think we will. CoB


jarkko
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@powmillnaemore I was thinking more that someone was missing Aaron Connolly, the ex-Boro loanee from Brighton, Luton, Venezia and Hull. And currently at our neighbours, Sunderland. 

That would have been a tough call, though. Up the Boro!


jarkko
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@clive-hurren Re: Chris Wilder

I was in the UK between Wilder's dismissal and Carrick's take over. So I did see three matches including the one where a first goal was scored by Hackney - it was away from home.

I also talked to a Boro player - with whom I was able share a thought or two in another language than English - and he mentioned that he has never worked under a manager or coach that was so angry. That was exactly the word he was using. So perhaps Wilder was not the best working with young lads. He did call some of the purchases as projects at the time.

So perhaps Wilder was really old school. And his leadership qualities were out of time and not very understable for the younger generation. He must have been opposite to Carrick in his outlook and attitude.

Just saying, like. Up the Boro!


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@martin-bellamy 

I’ve Just read the hospital  discharge letter on my doctors eConsult website and apparently scans show that I have left ventricular dysfunction.

It’s only taken them 4 years to diagnose this as I couldn’t get in to see any cardiac consultants!

To say that I’m unhappy about this is an understatement!

Anyway to more positive issues !

BORO3

OFB


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An excellent from the heart piece Clive that I'm sure resonates with pretty much every Boro supporter.

There was nothing to remotely admire about Wilder in his time with us, a spiky, surly individual undone by his Burnley misjudgement.

Carrick comes across as the wholesale opposite, decent and very genuine. I know we're flailing at the moment and while it might not come right as soon as we'd want, I'm sure it will. 

Success will only come with a boss the players and fans believe in and warm to and get behind - Jack, Bruce, Robbo (for a time and not long enough sadly) - and Carrick I think is in that camp. A top, top person.

I'm really, really pleased that we have him.


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Clive Hurren: In your opener you mention Shef Utd players to be aware of, one of which was Souza who picked up his 5th yellow card against Leeds and isn’t eligible to play against Boro.

Come on BORO.


Powmill-Naemore
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@rich-llewelyn-evans I agree


   
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Pedro de Espana
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@clive-hurren.  What a Headliner Clive, probably your best to date. No sitting on the fence with you. 😃

Also two very good follow up posts from Andy and Dormo.

All of the above brought back memories of other times and also the predicament we now find ourselves in once more. 

Andy is right to compare Mowbray especially, even though he got the short straw somewhat with a lack of money during his time here.

Carrick in my view has to really step up now in terms of points on the board. The fans have been very supportive in the past when things went wrong even after Coventry and missing out on the play offs last season.

However, unlike Mowbray, Mr Gibson has  given a fair amount of cash to the recruitment system to bring in players over the last 9 months.

Now,  if he won't change his system, then he has to use his squad and change the personal to change the results.

The biggest issue is not scoring goals. Still only 10 after ten games. That will get you no where.

So is the issue at hand, the players not being good enough. Or is the issue Mr Carrick.

Eventually, if the results do not change, then Mr Gibson will make one. 


Clive Hurren
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@exmil 

Yippee!

And wow! 5 yellow cards in 10 games (plus EFL Cup, perhaps) is some going. Cattermole-lite you might say! 


   
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jarkko
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A fair xomment from Carrick today:

"We’ve had the most shots and conceded the fewest in the whole league, so throughout the pitch is really good. It’s just proving to be at the moment in terms of results. But as far as giving ourselves the best chance over a long period, we’re doing a lot of good things."

So I won't be asking too many changes. We just need to find consistency and the best eleven to start. This is not rocket science. I trust Carrick. We should not panic next.

Up the Boro! 


   
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