Discussion Forum

Hull City v Boro
 

Hull City v Boro

Page 5 / 7
 

Selwynoz
Member
Joined: 1 year ago
Posts: 259
 

@werdermouth

I'm sure there is a half-decent team somewhere among the chaos but will we see it emerge or will it remain just a theoretical possibility.

I agree with you and in many ways its the most frustrating element of this season. 

Hard to know where anything will go from here. I do sense that Jones ahs lost his confidence because he's not doing much even when he does come on.

 

If we don't win the two home games coming up, we might see the whole thing boil over.

UTB


Original Fat Bob
Member
Joined: 1 year ago
Posts: 1086
 

@philip-of-huddersfield

Unfortunately it looks like everyone is coming round to see my point of view about Warnock.

Chants of “you’re getting sacked in the morning” by sections of the 3.500 Boro  fans were shrugged off by him.

We now have major defensive problems and a loss of confidence in the younger players. We need urgent action to prevent this season turning into a relegation fight and only one man can take this action.

SG it’s up to you again I’m afraid 

 

OFB


K P in Spain
Member
Joined: 1 year ago
Posts: 849
 

@original-fat-bob.  Just to remind everyone, I was the lone voice at the end of the season he kept us up that said we should thank NW for his services and let him go back into retirement.

I said to continue with him was not a long term solution and if promotion was not achieved it would be wasted time and effort; we needed a complete re-think on how we operated as a club.  

Sadly I have been proved correct and the only solution now is for SG to act quickly and decisively but with a clear plan and aims in mind, not just a knee jerk reaction.

Pedro mentioned we were watching the demise of the club, sadly it has been going on for years now with very little signs of improvement.  It's getting close to last chance saloon if we are to avoid being another Portsmouth, Sheffield Wednesday or Sunderland and drifting towards the lower leagues of the EFL. 😎


Pedro de Espana
Member
Joined: 2 years ago
Posts: 199
 

@k-p-in-spain     Sadly I have been proved correct and the only solution now is for SG to act quickly and decisively but with a clear plan and aims in mind, not just a knee jerk reaction.

Unfortuanatley KP, Mr Gibson has acted quickly previously. However the plan has not been very clear but rather muddied. 

Does anybody have any real confidence that the Owner could actually come up with a change choice that would really work. No I did not think so.

Maybe OFB has heard something that could give us hope. 🤞

This post was modified 2 months ago by Pedro de Espana

John Richardson
Member
Joined: 1 year ago
Posts: 323
 

That was and is thoroughly depressing and mr Warnock needs to buy a couple of new fishing rods and go and enjoy himself and his family too.

Boro need a manager to take them forward but for this season now it's going to be down to attrition and tench warfare to try and scrape enough points together. As everyone has said on this blog the talent is there but it isn't developed or harnessed to advantage. Putting it mildly it's all very, very sad.

A rudderless and unfocussed Boro now need some decisive action in the boardroom and I'm afraid that means a clean out of the manager and assistants. Then question is who does Mr Gibson replace them with?

Over to you Mr Gibson.

UTB,

John


Boroexile
Member
Joined: 1 year ago
Posts: 65
 

@ken

Yes, you can just see recent history repeating itself this season can’t you? Poor performances and results, low morale in the team, fans showing their feelings at matches, the team dropping down the table and an increasing threat of relegation.  Then with about 10 games to go the situation gets to the stage where the Chairman has to act, NW goes and another ageing “keep the club in the league” manager comes in and the whole cycle starts again.  It is NOT the way to move our club forward with optimism for the future.


PaulInBoro
Member
Joined: 1 year ago
Posts: 119
 

Well if the manager doesnt think he can get any more out of the squad he should just clear off out of the club I support. Once again we should have won platitudes from him, well should have & could have add up to no points and a grim battle to stave off relegation if we continue down this road. All very disappointing and starting to look worrying as well.

🔴 I edited those funny character that appeared in your post for you - I think you meant to say 'clear' - werdermouth

This post was modified 2 months ago by werdermouth

werdermouth
Site Creator Webmaster
Joined: 5 years ago
Posts: 933
 

While I'm not convinced Neil Warnock is the right man to lead Boro forward, it would be quite harsh to dismiss him on the basis of the Hull defeat  - Boro had enough clear chances to win that game and then then went behind to a freak goal.

Given the defensive injury crisis and the number of unfit new signings, I'd also agree in the sentiments of Warnock when asked about some Boro fans chanting 'Sacked in the morning' he replied: "I don't mind that. If anybody can do better then good luck to them".

And that is the problem, anyone who comes in now has to begin with barely a back four to field now that Fry is facing anything up to three months out, Hall injured in training before the game, Dijksteel out for another month and Peltier suspended and Bola still not fully fit. 

Warnock admitted that it's looking bleak at the moment but vowed to carry on - Can Steve Gibson say it's time for a change on the basis that the manager has barely got a fit starting XI?

So could anybody do better? Gibson could well conclude somebody new couldn't do any worse but that's not necessarily certain - especially in Boro's case. However, Boro have rarely won two consecutive games under Warnock, just three times this year out of 41 games and that is not a sign that there's any evidence he'll be creating a team capable of sustaining any kind of promotion challenge.

For all the talk (from Warnock) of having turned the club around, Boro are still performing at the Woodgate level and given he doesn't think the two key summer signings of Payero and Siliki are going to be either match fit or playing a major part in his team, then you have to wonder what his expectations are in terms of results.

Pointing the finger of blame at refs, players mistakes, injuries, recruitment, lady luck, breakfast or anything else wears thin after time as it's ultimately the manager who must take responsibility for decisions and results. A change of methods and tactics is sometimes needed to get a change of fortune.

Anyway, I expect we may well be having the same discussion in the next international break - though if we hear 'Sacked in the morning' loud and clear at the Riverside with Steve Gibson watching from the stands then he may well be having that conversation quite soon.


PaulInBoro
Member
Joined: 1 year ago
Posts: 119
 

@werdermouth you may be right but as the manager of the team he carrys the can and for him to publicly say he doesnt think he can get anymore out of the team should be the final straw. All teams get injuries  and a good manager gets through them we have seen little evidence that the current incumbent will do this as everybody will have gathered I am in the he needs to go now camp


werdermouth
Site Creator Webmaster
Joined: 5 years ago
Posts: 933
 

@paulinboro

I'd agree if Warnock says he can't get anymore out of the team then he's basically saying that Boro have a mid-table team at best, which negates the purpose of keeping him on for another season in order to have a go at promotion. At some point either Steve Gibson will conclude it's time to prepare for next season or Warnock will decide the game is up but right now I believe neither will decide it's time - both will be thinking if Boro can win the next two home games against two teams in the bottom three then all will be well again. If that doesn't happen then Warnock, like his breakfast, will probably be toast...


John Richardson
Member
Joined: 1 year ago
Posts: 323
 

Werder,

Based on our success with Hull City the thought of two home games against two teams in the bottom three fills me with fear. As for unfit players, well why did Boro buy them? Two points out of six will be a success but I don't think Boro could manage two back-to-back draws let alone wins. The mid-table statement is a good summation of the situation and as I've said that would be a minor triumph for a team that is well and truly adrift in the doldrums.

Over to our crack new medical team then so that they can turn things around off the pitch.

UTB,

John


werdermouth
Site Creator Webmaster
Joined: 5 years ago
Posts: 933
 

@k-p-in-spain

While things are looking bleak, I'd stop short of predicting Boro could be on the verge of becoming a League One outfit. Steve Gibson is still making Boro a quite well resourced Championship club - the problem, as ever it seems, is the club are not spending their resources well or even getting a return on players as they often end up running their contracts down and leaving on a free.

I'd go back to the Aristotle quote about the whole not being greater than the sum of its parts - If Boro end up in League One it will be because of avoidable errors off the pitch rather than a decline in resources.


werdermouth
Site Creator Webmaster
Joined: 5 years ago
Posts: 933
 
Posted by: @john-richardson

That was and is thoroughly depressing and mr Warnock needs to buy a couple of new fishing rods and go and enjoy himself and his family too.

Boro need a manager to take them forward but for this season now it's going to be down to attrition and tench warfare to try and scrape enough points together.

I like the image of Neil Warnock going fishing while Boro are involved in 'tench' warfare...


K P in Spain
Member
Joined: 1 year ago
Posts: 849
 

I agree that NW's fate should not be decided upon by one match alone but on the basis that we are not seeing, under his tenure, any indications that he is actually moving the team forward or can do so no matter who he has to pick from. 

I also agree that to replace him immediately without any replacement or proper strategy in place is foolhardy and that is why I posted and have been talking for a long-while that the club needs a re-set in the way it operates; perhaps that has already happened by the appointment of a DoF and that there is planning under way with regards to NW's successor but only time will tell.

On the injury front, it could be said we have been unlucky, but it is part and parcel of the game and there is a need to properly plan and to be able to adjust when such situations occur; this to me appears to be an area where we are falling short despite bringing in fitness coaches we are still seeing muscle pulls and strains, injuries in training and through poor recruitment we have been short of cover in certain positions for many a season.  How much is down to NW, his predecessors or the recruitment team is difficult to assess.

NW is not solely to blame and the players have to shoulder responsibility as for far too long and too often we see poor decision making, a lack of composure or poor execution; we all make mistakes but this has been a constant failing for too many seasons.  Tony Pulis used to bang on at every post match interview about the number of chances missed and yet here we are still in the same situation and one of the lowest scores in the EFL.

Change needs to come and when to do it is the most difficult question to answer other than for me it needs to be planned and fully prepared for and not another knee jerk response.  Sad times. 😎


Plato
Member
Joined: 1 year ago
Posts: 389
 

@werdermouth

!I'm sorry, but really, any delay in ending this farce is futile times a wasting, get a foreign coach, our last one is looking like a g


ReplyQuote
K P in Spain
Member
Joined: 1 year ago
Posts: 849
 

@werdermouth.  "Steve Gibson is still making Boro a quite well resourced Championship club - the problem, as ever it seems, is the club are not spending their resources well or even getting a return on players as they often end up running their contracts down and leaving on a free".

I totally agree that we are well resourced in comparison to many but is it not due to the  mismanagement of those resources combined with a lack of performances and results on the pitch that eventually lead to clubs ending up in the lower leagues?

SG acted late with regard to removing Woodgate and we only just escaped relegation, so he needs to get his timing correct again this time; in an ideal world it would be an amicable parting of the ways for all concerned at the right time but when that will be is difficult to predict at this point.  😎


ReplyQuote
werdermouth
Site Creator Webmaster
Joined: 5 years ago
Posts: 933
 

@k-p-in-spain

Yes, it's a combination of resources and execution but if the club spend £6m on a player and the manager says he doesn't know where to play him then you begin to wonder why they bought him or indeed why they have a manager in charge if he doesn't fit the kind of players you want to sign at the club.


K P in Spain
Member
Joined: 1 year ago
Posts: 849
 

@werdermouth.  Yes it makes you wonder if they have moved to a new club management model before dispensing with the old.  More muddled thinking! 😎


John Richardson
Member
Joined: 1 year ago
Posts: 323
 

@werdermouth He'd have to relinquish his Boro Perch first. The 'tench' was finger trouble and not 'intenchional'!

UTB,

John

This post was modified 2 months ago by John Richardson

PaulInBoro
Member
Joined: 1 year ago
Posts: 119
 

Watford sack manager because of negative trend in results, imagine if Boro hierarchy were that ruthless


ReplyQuote
werdermouth
Site Creator Webmaster
Joined: 5 years ago
Posts: 933
 

@john-richardson

All he does is carp on about refereeing decisions...


werdermouth
Site Creator Webmaster
Joined: 5 years ago
Posts: 933
 

@paulinboro

No club is as ruthless as Watford. The life expectancy of their managers is measured in months - I think they've already had five men in charge since Covid started.


ReplyQuote
Pedro de Espana
Member
Joined: 2 years ago
Posts: 199
 

Werder,   I must of missed that Payero bit with regards to his "FEE".

Has it actually been stated we will pay 6mil or is it based on Fee + Add-Ons + promotion etc. It is just that for the Boro to pay 6mil ?? for a relatively unknown South American appears either naïve or stupid. Surely we could of bought a very good youngish Championship player for that kind of money.


ReplyQuote
Redcar Red
Member
Joined: 2 years ago
Posts: 843
 
Posted by: @k-p-in-spain

@werdermouth.  Yes it makes you wonder if they have moved to a new club management model before dispensing with the old.  More muddled thinking! 😎

That it now appears is the root of the many issues bubbling to the surface. Players presumably that Scott and Gibson want for the rebuild but the Manager doesn't want or know what to do with. I would have hoped that the word "transition" would have been mentioned in discussions with Warnock but either it wasn't or has been lost in translation. A season of middling or nudging the Play Offs probably would have been expected under the circumstances with the hope that wily Warnock could have notched another promotion but it is clear that whatever the interim plan was (if it existed) is now going pear shaped.

Acting now would undoubtedly be considered knee jerk by many but the reality is that all throughout 2021 Warnock's performance has been well below reasonable expectation levels. Whether it is possible to fast forward "the Plan" is unlikely unless it is adjusted accordingly to the resources that are presently available as oppose to the expected resources in 7 or 8 months time. If it appears that a suitable compromise exists both within the plan and Warnock's tenure then I am sure SG will act. These next two games have to be the litmus test, however I feel that we all know how these games will pan out. 


John Richardson
Member
Joined: 1 year ago
Posts: 323
 

@werdermouth

Dab hand at berating officials who need to know their plaice.

UTB,

John


Ken Smith
Mr
Joined: 1 year ago
Posts: 1093
 

To be fair we were a tad unlucky yesterday as acknowledged by Grant McCann. City’s bad luck against Blackpool was compensated by their good fortune against Boro. Nevertheless Boro started on the wrong foot with Tavernier’s early booking. Who’s to blame that Boro usually start matches on the offensive, the manager or the players? I recall that Cardiff under Warnock were often outplayed during the first half of matches in their promotion season, but often took the lead and won fairly comfortably away from home in the end. Maybe they had better players than Boro to do that. Perhaps Boro’s players are following Warnock’s instructions are too frightened to make a mistake early doors. Even so it’s the players to blame for missing so many chances, not Warnock’s. I thought that yesterday that in the second half Boro’s passing wasn’t too bad until they reached the opponents penalty area, but after that they took the wrong opinions. Is that overconfidence or desperation?

I hope that now with so many defenders unavailable for the home match against Peterborough that Warnock gives youth its chance. After all Dael Fry, comparatively unknown at the time, was given his debut for the first  match of the season a few years back against Preston after similar injury problems, and I’m sure that Sol Bamba would take care of him.

If Warnock has to be replaced, Steve McClaren is still available. One doesn’t have to like him as a person, but as a coach I reckon he would sort out Boro’s problems.

This post was modified 2 months ago by Ken Smith

ReplyQuote
werdermouth
Site Creator Webmaster
Joined: 5 years ago
Posts: 933
 

@pedro

Before the deal was agreed, the Gazette were quoting a figure of £5.8m as the fee - though as always the transfer fee was listed as 'undisclosed' once it went through. Other media sources have also quoted a fee of 'around £6m'. 

Unfortunately, we still don't know if he's worth that kind of money as he's barely kicked a ball for Boro and Warnock is still not sure where to play him - though he was originally touted as Saville's replacement - plus the Boro manager doesn't think he's fit enough and also has a language problem with not speaking English.

He sounds like more of a club signing or indeed a chairman one as I suspect Warnock would have preferred Morsy given the choice.


Pedro de Espana
Member
Joined: 2 years ago
Posts: 199
 

i see that Wood is not even on the bench today for Hibs. If he is not injured we may as well see if we can recall him. Although that have to wait until January??


ReplyQuote
K P in Spain
Member
Joined: 1 year ago
Posts: 849
 

@pedro.  I believe it is s season loan without a recall clause but I could be wrong, hopefully! 😎


ReplyQuote
Plato
Member
Joined: 1 year ago
Posts: 389
 

I think that it was all due to a mistake during the sheff utd game. The team had no idea that our defence would deliver a shutout. When they realised that we were going to win it was all to late. This time they made sure that we would not score, but it was still dicy, with Hull so awful, it took a stroke of luck to get the defeat. But they managed it, so all was well.    


ReplyQuote
Page 5 / 7
Share: