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Boro Managerial Mer...
 

Boro Managerial Merry Go Round

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Original Fat Bob
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I thought that as we will all be discussing the pros and cons of having a possible new manager that we might as well have a new topic to put our posts in.

This is not a wind up !

One name being seriously considered for the new managers post is Emma Hayes The women’s Chelsea Team Manager!

it must be true as it’s being reported in the Daily Mail !

Is it April 1st Already ???

OFB


Original Fat Bob
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I’ve checked both posts on Twitter one allegedly by Daily Mail Sport and the other by Keith Downie of Sky Sports.

Both of the posts showing their Twitter handles were false.

As I suspected there are some people trying to have a laugh at the Boro expense.

OFB


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lenmasterman
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Bob,

Wind-up or not, if she's half as good as Cherie Lunghi I"m up for it.

 


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Redcar Red
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I saw a tweet from some of the younger fringe players that has now been deleted that was tongue in cheek but an older player advised them to remove it "allegedly". 

There are a few tales now circulating on social media ranging from Hall's sudden absence being down to a disagreement with NW, Payero apparently back in Argentina, younger players allegedly bullied and even Leo having a bit of a disagreement of his own with NW.  

I have no idea if any of this is true (the first bit about the Tweet was as I read it myself before it was removed) but it is what happens sadly when things turn sour and Chinese whispers go into overdrive. 

The Gazette haven't plunged the knife in yet so it's either all good or fine details haven't been ratified yet.


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K P in Spain
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@redcarred.  Payero back in Argentina is no surprise given he is far away from home and family and still learning English.  Any caring employer would allow him some time off to see family.

If the reports regarding disagreements and bullying are true then this is a cause for concern, particularly the latter but disagreements tend to be a part of footballing life; if true then the happy dressing room has soon dissolved. 😎


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Pedro de Espana
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Whilst I not sure if replacing Mr Warnock would be the best move at this time, unless Mr Gibson and his new D of F or what ever his title is, have a creditable replacement.

This would surely be, someone young-ish but with a reasonable CV showing success over the last 5/10 years. I do not mean actually winning promotions, but that would be a start may be.

As others like KP have said,  it is all not down to NW. Mr Gibson once again has to take a very large slice of the under baked cake that is the Boro.

Yes SG has provided funds for the summer transfer merry go round, but once again, have those resources been well used. We have a squad that is so unbalanced it beggars belief that we supposibly have “football experts” in charge at the club.

Some of the incoming players have surprised me by their lack of Championship capability, given the glimpses of game time from them. Then we pay circa 6mil for a player that we all know is going to be a big gamble. One that Boro with their limited resources can I’ll afford.

So any new Coach coming in would have to be quite experienced in many ways and especially in dealing with the foreign players we have.

Then there is the biggest issue to deal with first. How do I get those “injured” players fit. We have brought players in with their own history of injuries which has not helped. A question to Mr Gibson. WHY.

So, as I have said before, unless the new man is Merlín the Magician, nothing will change much very soon..

Of course others may disagree and think a new person would achieve more with what is available at this time.


John Richardson
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As a supporter you do have to wonder what is going on Boro.

We buy players from Argentina and Europe who aren't really being trusted by the manager. He comments about them because they're not yet 'fit' but they've been training with the club for weeks, is that an own goal? Then he hints that apparently he didn't want them anyway. Now there's motivational man management for you, that'll get the best out of them, by not playing them and telling them these home truths their failure becomes a self-fulfilling prophesy.

He signs older players who are fit but can easily become injured or unfit so we may have to get more players who have been released and haven't found clubs but they'll be unfit because they're training on their own and won't meet Mr W's criteria of fitness.

Meanwhile we lose players to injuries, as you do, but Boro's state-of-the-art fitness and medical centre don't seem to be able to sort out what the injuries are. Then we ship out players that we need on loan to a rival where they are either any of playing a blinder every week or to Scotland where they may or may not be playing as they try to become men and ready for Warnock's Rockliffe injury circus. Then there's Ameobi...

Mr Warnock would appear to have selected most of the incoming transfers, he picks the team, decides the 'tactics', whatever they are and he continues to foul-mouth officials and get the club a bad name. Now, if you were the Boss man wouldn't you have something to say about this cross between Through the looking Glass and a strange nightmare trip.

I don't understand any of it at all and most importantly I don't think any of the players do either. A few are probably talking to their agents about their next job already, in truth I think we all would be in this situation.

I'm sure I must have missed something in that Football Horror show but seriously Mr Gibson needs to do something before the club tears itself apart. I did miss something, the use of substitutes to our advantage but I'll leave that to OFB or anyone else who needs a cue.

Meanwhile,

UTB,

John

This post was modified 3 weeks ago by John Richardson

John Richardson
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Posted by: @original-fat-bob

I thought that as we will all be discussing the pros and cons of having a possible new manager that we might as well have a new topic to put our posts in.

This is not a wind up !

One name being seriously considered for the new managers post is Emma Hayes The women’s Chelsea Team Manager!

it must be true as it’s being reported in the Daily Mail !

Is it April 1st Already ???

OFB

OFB, What's wrong with that? She must be better than Baldrick who we have now...

UTB,

John

PS It's been April 1st since the season started.

This post was modified 3 weeks ago by John Richardson

Martin Bellamy
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I’d have no problem with Emma Hayes. Her appointment would show we are a progressive, modern club. Given the collection of dinosaur managers and players who been at the Riverside over the past 20 years it would be a breath of fresh air, not to mention a PR coup. Imagine the publicity the club would gain from an announcement of her appointment. 

This post was modified 3 weeks ago 2 times by Martin Bellamy

PaulInBoro
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I agree with MB in not having a problem with Emma Hayes getting the job,let's face it we have tried inexperience, foreign, dinosaurs so why not a woman, but this is pure conjecture until the current incumbent rides into the sunset


deleriad
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The whole Emma Hayes thing was a bit of trolling from a twitter account. No reason why she couldn't manage us but because she would presumably be the first female manager of a Championship team you would need to do put a lot of work in place to deal with the inevitable grief she would get. At the moment, as a club, we have been flailing around since Charltongate. (I think it would be great if she got a job with a professional mens team but for her own sake she needs to find a league one/two club that has been comfortably mid-table and is decently run.)

Right now we need to be able to reset and come up with a plan that we can stick to. Leeds with Orta and Bielsa would be the best recent example of that. The "Golden Thread" plan was not a bad one in the abstract but it was at the wrong time and with the wrong managerial team and set up.

I'm presuming that Kieran Scott marks the beginning of Golden Thread 2 but at the moment it risks unravelling before it starts. There's enough smoke coming out from the club that it feels like the lead up to Charlton all over again with different people jockeying for power and influence. 

I don't know what Gibson is thinking but if I were in charge and my main managerial targets for Golden Thread 2 weren't available this season or perhaps not until after Christmas then possibly I would have to trust Warnock to improve results even if the club is in turmoil in part because of him. You feel that putting Leo or Graeme Lee in charge as a caretaker could easily end up with us following the Agnew path and getting relegated. Gibson's MO seems to be to put a lid on a problem for a while to buy time for it to resolve and I suspect he'll try to do the same here. 

Personally I would lance the boil and assuming my targets aren't available put Graeme Lee in charge until the end of the season with the incentive that if we're in the top 10 at the end of the season that he will be considered for the position permanently. (This is, of course, assuming that he isn't part of the problem.) If Lee is failing and we're in relegation danger in Feb/March then you would need to move for an experienced manager.

I don't have any pre-existing issues with Warnock but I don't see how he can stay in place without fracturing the club. He's a divisive figure at the best of times but short of us winning the next 3 games in a row there seems no way back for him. Too many have made up their minds and once people get invested in wanting someone out it becomes a war. 


PaulInBoro
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@deleriad in a way I'm relieved it was a piece of trolling imagine if she had turned us down, but as you say it doesnt alter the fact that something is rotten in the state of Boro


Original Fat Bob
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It’s just been announced that Watford have appointed Claudio Ranieri as head coach.

Damn I forgot he was available he could have been our own Boro tinker man.

OFB


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Ken Smith
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Is it Steve Gibson who is letting the club down, or his advisers? He’s still pouring money into the football club and without him we would not have survived 1986. Yet as a community club few would show the compassion that he still shows. For example there are hundreds, maybe thousands of old people on Teesside who like me have received delivery of a hot meal from the club once a month since Covid 19. It just seems that when it actually comes down to running Boro as a football club he seems to fall short. He is a fan like all of us but probably not football-wise as he makes the same mistakes time and time again. I’m sure he wouldn’t put up with his employees at Baulkhall making the same mistakes, so are his advisers to blame for the current state that we appear to be in as regards recruitment, etc or is he playing the computer game of Football Manager with the club? When it comes to football he is merely a layman like the rest of us.

 

This post was modified 3 weeks ago by Ken Smith

jarkko
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@original-fat-bob

Well, he won't last there long!

Ranieri has had 21 clubs in his 35 year long career. So about 1 year 8 months per club. Quite a difference to Ferguson, for example.

Anyway, Watford have had the 14th managerial change under the club's current owners, the Pozzo family, since they took over in 2012.

Most probably Ranieri will be available again in summer 2022 😉.

Up the Boro! 

This post was modified 3 weeks ago by jarkko

K P in Spain
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@original-fat-bob.  We already have one and I think we have had too much tinkering in the last few years and that's why we continue to go from one mess to another! 😎


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K P in Spain
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@jarkko.  Not sure he would be interested in managing a league 1 club!😉😎


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werdermouth
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Posted by: @redcarred

I saw a tweet from some of the younger fringe players that has now been deleted that was tongue in cheek but an older player advised them to remove it "allegedly". 

My money would be on that older player being Marc Bola...


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werdermouth
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I suspect all the rumours on social media are just that or bit of proactive wishful thinking - though it seems people are easily fooled by fake Tweets and keen to believe what they want to these days - at least OFB had the good sense to check the Twitter accounts.

Personally, I can't see Neil Warnock either being dismissed or walking unless the upcoming home games against two bottom-three clubs go badly. Even then, if Warnock has no fit defenders or much in the way of a midfield, if for example McNair was forced back into his centre-back role or Howson reprised his right-back role, then he already has his excuses ready.

Unless Boro win the next two games, optimistically entertaining a Warnock promotion campaign becomes little more than a pipe dream for those still onside with the romantic and nostalgic thought of his final season ending in glory.

The sensible heads should already be reassessing whether the notion that a 72-year old man having one last hurrah is going to lead to Boro building a team for the future. It's almost like the club have diametrically opposed objectives hoping to reach the same outcome.

We know that Neil Warnock has little interest in picking players who are not ready and able to play how he wants  - he's a man without time on his side and is sticking to what he knows and trusts. However, if you put to one side the notion that this season is supposed to be a promotion campaign, the job at hand is in fact one in which new signings and new young players need to coaxed and encouraged to get up to speed so Boro transit into a new team that functions and players develop understanding and partnerships with their teammates.

At some point, possibly in the next month, someone will wonder why the first eleven contains the likes of Bamba, Peltier and possibly a couple of ageing free agents - while Payero, Siliki and Jones are doing their best work running up and down the touchline warming up and trying to catch their manger's eye in the 78th minute.

The club should finally accept this season is now merely one of transition and prepare to be ready for the start of next season with a team that's good to go - anything else would just be a bonus. We also shouldn't forget that next season has already being timetabled with the winter break for the Qatar World Cup - which will see an earlier start and then two games every week until that break. There will be no space to start tinkering with team and formations once next season starts - a bad start next year could be terminal and probably not a season you'd want a new manager to be finding their feet and discovering if his (or her) squad is good enough.

This post was modified 3 weeks ago by werdermouth

Martin Bellamy
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Maybe I need to say that my comments about Emma Hayes were not based on any belief that she was seriously being considered. I was simple pointing out that I wouldn’t see it as an April Fool but a genuine opportunity. A female manager being appointed at a League club will appear at some time but who knows where. Maybe Forest Green will be the first - theyve certainly led the way with other radical moves to modernise their club. 
I can’t see NW going before Xmas - do I wish he’d go now? I guess so, but only if SG has someone lined up to take over. Given that the present incumbent is due to leave at the end of the season, I can’t believe that he doesn’t have a shortlist of targets that he’s already spoken to. I certainly see signs of dissent amongst the squad and once you lose the players, you’re doomed as a manager. 


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K P in Spain
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@werdermouth. "Unless Boro win the next two games, optimistically entertaining a Warnock promotion campaign becomes little more than a pipe dream for those still onside with the romantic and nostalgic thought of his final season ending in glory."

If that happens, (win the next two) then on past performance they are just as likely to lose the next three!

I agree that we are already in a transition season and what is needed is some planning and short, medium and long term targets in place coupled with a replacement ready to step in when the inevitable happens and NW departs as you have stated; I certainly do not believe that NW can be involved at the next transfer window. 😎


werdermouth
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@k-p-in-spain

I'm not even sure Warnock was that involved in the last transfer window! I think Warnock only has a job for as long as either he or Steve Gibson think promotion is a possibility and the Riverside crowd don't turn against him out of frustration. He may well limp along in mid table until a credible long-term replacement candidate emerges.


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Redcar Red
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@werdermouth it was Marcus 


Original Fat Bob
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@werdermouth

Good Post Werder and it’s a shame NW didn’t depart in the summer having achieved stability.

I had heard a rumour that Morsey didn’t fit in well with some in the dressing room and that is why he went.

I must admit I despaired at signing over the hill free transfer players and non league kids and it seems we are not a promotion seeking side or even making noises to be one.

The histrionics and shameful performances of NW on the touch line is not funny and reflects badly on the club.

There are plenty of coaches out there who could do a short term job for us 

McClaren?

Karanka?

Pulis?

Woodgste?

Fat Sam?

No takers ? I thought so 

what about Ollie? He’s on TV at present and without a club and did a good job at QPR.

That would help perhaps to fill in the interim gap before a permanent appointment.

OFB

 


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Ken Smith
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Boro had only 10 managers prior to the Second World War but have had 25 permanent managers since. Although Harold Shepherdson was only a caretaker manager, he was the only one with a percentage of over 50% of wins for his 17 matches in charge with 9 wins, 4 draws and 4 defeats in 1973. But only 10 permanent managers have recorded 40% or more wins for matches in charge, and some of those percentages might surprise you although of course some of those managed Boro in the Premier League/Old First Division whilst others spent their entire career managing Boro in the second tier. For what it’s worth here are those statistics:-

1st Aitor Karanka 46.78% 171 matches, 80 wins, 42 draws, 49 defeats      

2nd Garry Monk 46.15% 26 matches, 12 wins, 5 draws, 9 defeats.         

3rd Jack Charlton 45.60% 193 matches, 88 wins, 49 draws, 56 defeats  

4th Tony Pulis 43.75% 80 matches, 35 wins, 22 draws, 23 defeats.        

5th Stan Anderson 41.87% 332 matches, 139 wins, 89 draws, 104 defeats

6th Bob Dennison 41.47% 381 matches, 158 wins, 77 draws, 146 defeats  

7th Bryan Robson 40.45% 314 matches, 127 wins, 86 draws, 101 defeats      

8th Neil Warnock 40.35% 57 matches, 23 wins, 10 draws, 24 defeats        

=9th Bruce Rioch 40.00% 205 matches, 82 wins, 52 wins, 71 defeats       

=9th Colin Todd 40.00% 70 matches, 28 wins, 16 draws, 26 defeats 

 

However when one looks at the percentages of wins against losses only Neil Warnock has lost more matches than he has won. Says it all really.

This post was modified 3 weeks ago 2 times by Ken Smith

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werdermouth
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@original-fat-bob

I already regard Warnock as an interim manager, so replacing him with another interim manager would be a mistake - while it's hard to see a promotion challenge emerge, I don't think Boro will ultimately drop into the bottom three under Warnock either. So unless he walks then the club should be looking at a long-term appointment with the view of preparing for next season and bedding in the new signings.


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werdermouth
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@ken

That's the weirdness of stats and the win percentage figure as a measure of success - I would never have placed Monk as our second best manager in terms of wins - perhaps it tells us more of what Boro have endured over the years and how low the bar is.

Incidentally, if Warnock were to win those next two home games against Peterborough and Barnsley, he would move up to 5th best with 44.07% and only a few wins away from the 1st position. Still, as Clive noted earlier, Warnock's win percent for 2021 is current just 33.33%!

Though if you compare Warnock to Pulis, who just about flirted with making the play-offs, you can see he's already lost more games than the Welshman having played 23 games fewer. That should be enough of an indication that Warnock is not on track for making the play-offs.

This post was modified 3 weeks ago by werdermouth

K P in Spain
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@werdermouth.  I think you last paragraph clearly indicates that we are a club in decline and all the talk about promotion is but a pipe dream given what has been happening in recent seasons. 😎


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Powmill-Naemore
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Posted by: @k-p-in-spain

@werdermouth.  I think you last paragraph clearly indicates that we are a club in decline and all the talk about promotion is but a pipe dream given what has been happening in recent seasons. 😎

😭

 


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werdermouth
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In terms of Warnock's future and the truth of various rumours doing the rounds on social media, it has often been said if you give someone enough rope then they'll be instrumental in their own downfall. Well some may be interested to read on the club website that they have announced a new Club Partner called Group Industrial UK Ltd - who the article says "lead the way in a variety of industrial services, including rope access and fabrication..."


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