I can’t really add much to what has already been said.
The only thing that occurred to me that I haven’t seen mentioned is that whilst the same XI was selected for this one, we played 3-5-2 instead of 4-2-3-1.
I think we finished the game against Sheff U that way having done the damage in the first half but I didn’t understand why we started like that against Hull. We played our best football of the season in the first half on Tuesday.
Unfortunately, you could tell within ten minutes that we weren’t at it yesterday. I only saw the first half though.
It feels like a watershed moment. Remind me what month Southgate, Strachan and Mowbray and left the club.
Acting now would undoubtedly be considered knee jerk by many but the reality is that all throughout 2021 Warnock's performance has been well below reasonable expectation levels. These next two games have to be the litmus test.
Right on all counts, RR.
Since the start of 2021, Warnock’s league record reads: WON 12; DRAWN 7; LOST 18. 37 league games, with only 12 won. Even with my limited maths skills I make that a win percentage of 33.3%, or near enough. By contrast, he has lost 50% of his games.
In comparison, the win percentages of other relatively recent managers are as follows:-
Strachan 28%
Mowbray 39.87%
Karanka 47%
Monk 46%
Pulis 43.75%
Woodgate 22%.
Whereas Warnock’s overall record is likely to be better than 33.3%, because of his earlier success with us and the more successful first half of last season, nonetheless his performance since January 2021 has been decidedly below par. It clearly isn’t promotion or play-off form, and with a trend like this few of us can see Boro putting together a sustained run of results that will get us to where we want and expect to be. We haven’t had those levels of consistency since Karanka. Add a leaky defence and a shortage of goals to that and it makes a promotion run look even less likely.
So your last point is also spot on, RR. We have two home games now against sides in the bottom three. These are both must-win games. No ifs, no buts. If we fail to win them both, then I’m afraid Warnock must go.
I think after OFB writes the preview for the next game, we should have a collective minutes’ applause.
Good luck Bob - rather you than me!
It would appear that something is afoot which would indicate that Warnock may not have to worry about all his fresh injuries after all.
I suspect the prospect of very likely dropping points against any more struggling sides after the International Break has led to a review of the current situation at MFC. Holds breath and waits to see if a "mutual" agreement is reached among friends.
I suspect Olusanya and Marcus Browne may be in for a spell on the naughty step for liking that comment...
@redcarred is there any substance to This or is it wishful thinking, I dont w ant to get my Hope's up for them to be cruelly dashed on the rocks of expectation. Knowing our luck it will happen and he will be replaced by big sam, for a very frying pan fire moment
One other defensive problem still to consider is that we are yet to find out if Marc Bola will receive a retrospective ban for that apparent homophobic tweet he made when he was 14. I think he had until 25 September to respond to the charge so the judgement must due any time now.
@werdermouth Soon? It took them years to read the the tweet originally. They are not in a hurry 😆. Up the Boro!
I am bitterly disappointed how the season has started for the Boro.
But as I said, a club who bought 12 players in a transfer window cannot expect the team to click immediately. The start is not worse than I feared. Of course I hoped for a decent start at heart but the brain said this would follow.
We have not been able to bed in the legion of new players we just bought. So are just in the middle of a change process that needs to be continued and finished. And then the results would follow (I hope).
We must learn to walk as a team before we can run. There is no short cut to success.
So some fans are already asking for a change before the previous changes are finished yet. Really? Do you think more changes will hep in solving a simple thing like creating a team.
Let's got the basics correct first. The mistakes were made some years ago if we needed 12 new players in a transfer window.
As we have done that we need patience now. Constant change does create a chaos - no more.
Let's take a break and let the manager have some time. I am as disappointed as an average fan, but there is no short cuts. The basics of a team building are the same now as it was 50 years ago.
Up the Boto, always!
Im afraid my patience as well as a lot of others has worn thin
I have supported the Boro in good days and bad from relegation to promotion. From success at Cardiff to despair at a newly formed club at Hartlepool running out onto the pitch with local lads.
Quite frankly the football being played at the moment is turgid and unattractive to watch. Am I alone in thinking this? I think not!
It has to go down to the manager and coaches who dictate the style of play. I agree with you that we have signed a lot of players but if the manager makes them feel unwanted and won’t play them they will develop “injuries” and an inability to play.
When you see young players going on loan like Spence getting rave reviews and tweeting “this is all I ever wanted” making a sly dig at NW and liked by current Boro players it is creating division in the squad.
Sorry but NW has to go and go now !
We all love the highs and lows of supporting our club and I’m currently reading Bob Mortimer Autobiography “And Away” In the book he mentions that his depression was miraculously lifted when watching a Boro game at Ayresome Park and he realised how happy life could be.
Me? I’m just waiting for the Boro to perform a miracle and start to be a successful club !
OFB
Have to agree with Bob's sentiments Jarkko.
I think we all know that not all of the 12 players coming in were NW's picks and that several of those that have gone out on loan are away because NW wanted them away. The issue here is all about man management. I think most people in here think that given the playing staff we have at the club now, then the quality is there to be performing much better than they are. I don't buy into the "bedding in" period. Like OFB says, if you are not made to feel you are wanted you are not going to bed in, because the guy in charge of the bed is actually (actively ?) preventing you from doing so.
KP has been right all along. The time to have parted ways with NW was at the end of last season. All that is happening now is that his reputation is being tarnished and that is not all down to him. He is being dealt a difficult hand to play by the management that is trying to set us up for some brave new world at the same time leaving someone who doesn't fit in to that brave new world in charge.
I sympathise with his predicament, but my concern is for the club, not for any one individual in the club. It is patently clear that the team/squad need to have someone else to lead them and to be able to get the most out of the collective. This is not a reaction to the Hull result, but a reaction to the consistent inconsistency of the team and, as others have shown, the inadequate points return since at least January.
A NW team built the way he wants it might have done better for us. Unfortunately for him (and us maybe) he is not being given that and he is not showing any signs that he has what is required to make the squad that he is being given deliver on the pitch.
I like NW and I am sorry this is happening. I advocated him for us a few years ago and perhaps a few years ago he could have achieved his one last hurrah. I simply can't see it happening now.
@original-fat-bob I was talking about results. One cannot cut corners when looking for results and performances.
Beside, nobody complained the style after the Sheffield United match 😉.
It is bitterly disappointing now but the damage was done a couple of years ago. Football is not rocket science, there I agree with Warnock.
Chaos is not solved by causing more changes. We have tried that far too often since Karanka was at helm. Now stability and patience is needed. At least for a month or two.
Up the Boro!
There are many annoying habits of Warnock, but surely the worst is his total unawareness of match situations. He has quite a record of freezing when the critical point in a match arrives. At 0-0 it screamed out for Jones to come on and park himself just short of the halfway line, even we would have been bright enough to clear the ball in his direction, which would have caused some angst to Hull and eased the pressure on our defence, and might have saved us a couple of injuries?
Talking injuries, Plato, just what is going on at Boro? In the bad old days, our training ground used to be known as Crockcliffe, (c)Ian Gill. Now, again, it seems we’re constantly losing players to muscle injuries. Who is doing the training? Where’s the fitness coach? What’s the medical team doing? Clubs these days benefit from the best possible advances in physical preparation and medical science. So what are Boro doing wrong?
Chaos is not solved by causing more changes. We have tried that far too often since Karanka was at helm. Now stability and patience is needed. At least for a month or two.
Up the Boro!
I agree with you that stability is best, Jarkko, but I don’t think we have a month or two, that’s the problem. Unless results improve rapidly very soon, then we will be condemned to yet another season in the Championship, with dwindling crowds and resources. Sadly, I don’t see any sign of the sustained upturn required with Warnock in charge. I wish it were otherwise.
@jarkko. I don't agree that our problems are down to 12 new players as they are not all being played together.
To my mind Saturday's side only contained one new player Sporar, as all the others were already here or had been signed during August and had been involved in preseason games. 😎
@k-p-in-spain I am not blaming any of the new players. I think we have bought wisely. It is not about individuals but moulding the 12 new players and the old players into a team.
Football is not about individuals, it is about a team. The players need to know each others. We need to find the best formation and the best players for that.
We have passed on too many good players. Braithwaite was good before and after Boro. Same could be said about Djed Spence now.
We have find some stability. We can argue how. But the doors are revolving too fast for players and managers at Rockcliffe. We never used to be a club like that before Strachan arrived and after than. The blame is on the club, not individuals.
Long term planning is the key that 12 new players are needed in a summer. Every purchase is also a risk as well as an opportunity. Just saying, like.
Up the Boro!
Mind, if we think it’s been a depressing weekend for Boro it has been an extraordinary weekend on the continent. First of all the mighty Paris St Germain have lost their 100% league record by losing 2-0 at mid-table Rennes, but even more extraordinary in Spain where Granada enjoyed their first win of the season 2-0 at home to Sevilla (remember them?) who were previously unbeaten. But they weren’t the only Spanish club to lose their unbeaten record as the two El Classico giants both lost for the first time this season, Real Madrid 2-1 at Espanyol and Barcelona (now down to 8th in La Liga) to 2nd placed Atletico Madrid.
Holland didn’t escape its share of surprises either as Ajax Amsterdam were beaten 1-0 at home to Utrecht and losing for the first time this season after 8 matches. Feyenoord Rotterdam also lost 2-1 to 9 man Vitesse Arnhem. However in Germany although retaining top position, Bayern Munich were beaten 2-1 at home to previous winless Eintracht Frankfurt, though the biggest upset must be in Portugal where Benfica lost 1-0 at home to the Algarvean club of Sporting Club de Portimonense. No surprises in Italy and Belgium although in the Juliper League the two leading clubs are the unfashionable Eupen FC from Liege and Antwerpen.
Before the days of the internet I’ve always kept abreast of what’s happening in the major European Leagues often by buying local newspapers, but can’t recall a weekend like this for so many surprising results. What isn’t surprising though to Diasborians is that Watford look like appointing their 15th manager in the last 10 years, yet still appear to be a more stable club than Boro despite being a yo-yo club. The new manager being Claudio Ranieri, but none of us mentioned the Italian who took Leicester City to that most amazing Premier League title in 2016 as a future prospective Boro manager for Boro.
Just to complete a weekend of shocks though, especially for Redcar Speedway fans is that the Bears have suffered their first home defeat in the last meeting of the season in the National League playoffs 39-52 to Edinburgh Monarchs. The second leg is yet to be played, but I can’t imagine the Bears turning over such a deficit in the Scottish capital.
There's a really good little analysis of our problems here: https://www.neighbourhoodtactician.co.uk/articles/the-curious-case-of-neil-warnock-and-middlesbrough-tactics-and-missteps
In particular he points out something I have often noticed; when we have the ball at the back or in the centre of the pitch, there is never an easy or safe forward pass available. Essentially we vacate the central area of the pitch. This means that the only way forward is a long diagonal or chip down the line for a winger to run onto. Because this is so predictable and usually the only option, it is easy to defend against.
He also spots that we are not playing to Sporar's strengths. To be fair, both Tav and Crooks have spotted his run and played him in but his scouting report was that Sporar tends to miss a high percentage; he's a confidence player who at his best makes good runs but can struggle to convert. Right now, rather than playing on the shoulder he is coming deep to get the ball because there's no one in support in the middle of the pitch.
The author reckons Payero is the answer to our problems if we set up 4-3-3. That's asking a lot of Payero but it is what he did at Banfield; he was a high pressing midfielder with a good engine and a good range of passing.
It is notable that our best performances this season have been when we contested the middle and reduced the number of long diagonals. Even the beginning of the second half against Hull was a case where we did that.
@deleriad. Excellent, send it to NW and his team! 😎
That article is a great find, thank you.
The first section explains what several of us have noted in many games - that Boro’s midfield has been missing.
It seems likely that that isn’t the tactical setup per se, but that because we man-mark, the midfield gets dragged around and also means that when we gain possession, we’re close to an opposing player already having just been marking them ourselves.
I think the 4-3-3 is right, though the article’s version is more of a 4-2-3-1. I don’t think we’ve got the two natural holding midfielders to play 4-2-3-1 but 4-3-3 could work for us, with one of the three tasked with getting forward and supplying the front man.
Payero does seem the most obvious choice for that role but isn’t trusted because - guess what - he isn’t very good at man-marking.
Time to ditch the marking and trust the players to defend in their shape I think. It certainly worked for Karanka.
Thanks for that deleriad.
For me it has been obvious for sometime, arguably for some years that the midfield has not been what it should be. Every man and his dog on here has commented about it in one way or the other.
This season having lost Morsy, like him or not, we do not have a holding player. Howson has never been in my opinion and this season does not have the legs and loses his man quite easily.
As has been pointed out, there are gaps in the middle that you could drive a horse and cart through. Time again and again our opponents goals emanate from that area.
We have brought in at some expense two foreign Mids. Are they good enough? Apparently Mr Warnock does not think so. Saying that, from the glimpses I have seen of Siliki, he does not look any better than we have.
So unless Payero is the real deal, we have little chance of improving in that area.
Great article which highlights that our movement off the ball is non existent. I have said many times how we stand still in possession and it's almost like watching a game of Netball.
For the life of me I can't fathom why Boro Players don't make runs to create options, space or at least drag opposing defenders all over (the way they do to us) when in possession.
I mean I only played for my school and college and I played in goal but even then, in the 80s, two things were drilled into us:
Make an angle
Pass to where your teammate is going, not where he is.
It's not rocket science but watching us play it never seems to happen. I get particularly enraged when you watch one of our players being doubled up on and no one makes a run to get into a position for an easy ball out. They all stand around waiting to see what happens.
I just don't know why they do this. I can only assume that they are told to rather than them being less competent than a Sunday league footballer.
@deleriad. The same thing happens when we get a throw in, players stand like statues with an opponent in close attendance and when the throw is taken we invariably lose the ball to the opposition.
As you say it is not rocket science and for far too long Boro teams have failed to do the basics of the game; no matter which system you play it will not compensate for failing to do the basics. It is to be hoped that when a new manager is eventually appointed to replace NW he will identify and address these issues. 😎
I see John Hendrie in the Gazette is saying that our problem is that we need to buy better strikers. Well yes, better players are better but you could put Kane and Son into our team and they would struggle to hit double figures. We're a striker's graveyard.
There's a little poster I like, it reads: "The one common factor in all your failed relationships is you." If we keep buying strikers but none of them score goals then the problem is probably not the strikers.
I know it is miserable at the moment. But I think there have been some great goals recently. So look and enjoy them at https://www.mfc.co.uk/news/vote-for-boros-goal-of-the-month-for-september-0
I cannot remember the last time when we saw so many cracking goals in a month. The broblem is, of course the lack of quantity. We do not get too many points currently.
I have not been able to deside my favourite goal yet - both Sporar's and Watmore's goals were excellent. Up the Boro!
An excellent article and very illuminating. I reckonMr Warnock as all the right parts but he hasn't a clue how to utilise them in the right way, it's just the same every week with the same result. He's certainly not a free thinker and as for thinking outside the box or envelope in that situation he's just the spiteful little blue salt portion in the bag of crisps. Yet other people can the problems and he just wants more players of his choosing.
I cannot work out his attitude to Payero, a man who may well a the missing link but is looking increasingly like the lost chord. I'm afraid while he and his sidekicks are there Boro are going nowhere, they're just scrambling about trying not to be relegated.
We need a rebellion on the pitch by the players where they play their way and ignore the man with apoplexy in the technical area. Technical Area? Something has to give and if I was in Steve Gibson's position I'd have given something, some marching orders.
UTB,
John
I guess there's what we think we know and what is actually happening. If you're a Warnock-outer you are scouring the net looking for indications that the players want him out too. Personally, apart from the usual fragments of discontent you always get, I don't see any indication of that.
I also don't think Payero is our saviour. He's a 23 year old kid with potential who has never played outside of south America. The track record of success for players like him in the UK is abysmal. Personally I think he looks like a vanity signing. If we were a Premier League club with £6m to invest on putting a player in the U23s to develop for 6 months then great but we're not. The money we sank into Payero needs to be paid back by performance on the pitch immediately. He may come good but it won't be this side of Easter.
Likewise Lea Siliki has played less than 10 games in a year. It's going to take him 3 months to get up to speed but the Championship is not a league where you can carry passengers while they do that. Bringing him on as an impact sub or to see out games up to Christmas while he earns his place is what you would hope to do.
We have sold or loaned out 3 midfielders (Saville, Wing, Morsy) who were up to pace with the Championship and replaced them with 2 who are not ready and Matt Crooks. To be honest, if I were Warnock I would be spitting feathers about this. Admittedly he was probably happy for Wing to go because he clearly doesn't rate him but the point remains.
Although we're in a mess, it is not completely of Warnock's doing. I don't think Warnock staying solves anything but I also doubt that any new manager will have a significant impact. Personally I would change manager now if I could because you have two games that ought to be home bankers coming up. If Warnock is still in charge then winning those two games is the bare minimum; losing or drawing either of them probably makes his position untenable. If a new manager is in charge, there is less pressure because there will be a honeymoon period.