Trying to think of any consolation to the defeat.
All I have come up with - it could have been worse- if we had played Man . City it could have been a 10-1 defeat !!
Philip of Huddersfield
All going against the North Eastern teams!
Full-time: Sheffield Wednesday 2-1 Newcastle. Newcastle are out of the FA Cup.
For the second successive season the lose against League One opposition.
It does not help Boro but we are not the only team to lose todayy. Up the Boro!
I also recall a 1-8 fefeat against Charlton Athletic at the Valley in the 1953/54 season when I made my debut on the same night in the Redcar Subbuteo table soccer league. I lost that match 5-7 and was probably more upset at that reversal than Boro’s capitulation at the Valley, but then I was only 15 years old and like Boro today not as good as I thought I was. Boro were relegated to the Second Division at the end of that season for the first time in my lifetime,whilst I only managed two wins all season and eventually resigned to the sanctuary of the 12 player Kirkleatham Estate League which had a lower ranking.
After today’s Cup upsets, I’m taking Hartlepools to beat Stoke City tomorrow, even though their quest must be to retain their Football League status.
Trying to think of any consolation to the defeat.
All I have come up with - it could have been worse- if we had played Man . City it could have been a 10-1 defeat !!
Philip of Huddersfield
Could have been worse; it could have been a draw 😀
Thought Carrick spoke well in the press conference afterwards. Fundamentally he wants us to play a certain way and he's going to stick to those principles. Painful though it is, he probably learned an awful lot from that game.
Let's face it, every season you get tonked once or twice. I remember in Robbo's promotion season losing 5-1 to QPR. So I'm going to just look at this as one of those games where not only are you outclassed but the fates are also against you. Dust ourselves down, learn the lessons and go again.
There were also some dreadful displays under Steve McLaren. Remember that 2-5 home defeat to Villa in 2002 when a season ticket holder threw his ticket at McLaren’s feet, yet a week later his side outplayed Jose Mourinho’s Chelsea and then came the joy of reaching the EUAFA Cup Final later that same season. We’re unlikely to reach those heights ever again, but nevertheless that’s what following a team like Boro is all about. We’ve always had to take the rough with the smooth, that’s almost written in the script of being a Boro fan in my lifetime for nigh on 75 years. Good luck to Brighton, a club without a home a quarter of a century ago despite reaching the FA Cup Final and taking Man United to a replay in 1983.
An awful result yesterday. I saw the match on TV with a Finnish commentary (that was strange for a change - no Maddo).
But I have to say what a good team Brighton are. I think they won at Everton nearly as clearly just a few days ago. But, boy they did really play well and we had no chance. Brighton look really good at the moment and are eight in the EPL now.
Brighton are slightly smaller club than us. But they have done fantastically well since they were promoted.
Let's hope we can learn something from them as a club. We could and should do as well as both Bournemouth and Brighton are doing. So there is hoping.
Up the Boro
I watched it, and was dissapointed, but our Coach was very sensible in his views after the match. He said that he did not want his team to depart from their method of play, and was satisfied that the opposition was top class, which it was, and he had plenty of confidence in his players. I would rather he got on with his efforts to get out of this league using his knowledge and tactics which seem to be pretty effective at the moment. Note, our Good Winger was pretty ineffective when he came on.
Boro v Brighton - FA Cup 3rd Round.
I thought I'd put a few thoughts down here, the morning after the game, before reading either the Sunday newspaper reports or reading comments others may already have posted above. So as not to be influenced by those other views etc...
I was disappointed with the outcome of the game and the performance, but not outraged. I had hoped for better. However I heard some of the comments on BBC Tees, eventually switching the radio off as I drove home after the game. Some people had sent messages in to say that the performance was "pathetic" or using other phrases to decribe their unhappiness. Many thousands had already left the ground well before the final whistle when it was clear there would be no Boro victory. I understand there may have been some boos at the whistle but must confess I didn't notice them. My views:
1. Boro has been turned around during the short period, so far, of Michael Carrick's management. That hasn't been taken away by the result against Brighton. The team had been playing poorly under the previous manager but most of the players appear now to be better players than when Carrick took over. Performances and results have improved dramatically. A team looking destined for a struggle to avoid relegation has metamorphosed into a team already in a play-off position, with thoughts of promotion being aired publicly. And on the basis that the manager has only had a fairly brief period to affect the change, it seems perfectly reasonable to assume that the trajectory is upwards - that performances, tactics and results will further improve from the current position. That Boro is nowhere near the "finished article" at this stage.
2. Boro has recently been achieving unexpectedly good results against Championship teams in recent league games - the stand-out exception being the 3-1 defeat away to the league's top team, Burnley. But even that 3-1 defeat involved Boro scoring an own goal and missing a penalty. However the point is that the other results, even those against some of the division's better teams like Norwich and Blackburn, were results against CHAMPIONSHIP teams.
3. The FA Cup tie against Brighton was not only against a PREMIER League team, but one of the better PL teams and a team which, like Boro at its level, seems to be an improving team. Whilst there MAY be an argument that there MIGHT be some overlap between some teams near the bottom of the Premier League and some teams at the top of the Championship (a possible argument about it - not that I necessarily agree that's correct!), nobody could argue there is anything like an approach let alone an overlap between teams near the TOP of the Premier League and teams near the top of the Championship. The teams near the top of the PL are a match for any teams in Europe. And whatever their most recent results, I guess that some teams currently well below their normal level at the top of the PL (I'm thinking of Liverpool and Chelsea here) will up their game and, come the end of the season will be involved in the shake-up in the PL and Champions League competitions. In short, Brighton is literally a league above Boro. Brighton may be a team, a club, that Boro would like to become in the fulness of time but, as things stand, Brighton had 4 World Cup players in its team plus a World Cup winner who started on the Bench and who, when he came onto the pitch for the 2nd Half, clearly proved a top-class act. Boro had Riley McGree - and I don't belittle him by pointing out he is one against several.
4. Before the game I mentioned in a post that I hoped Boro would win and, to put a head above the parapet, the score 1-0 was suggested. Obviously if Boro were to win, it would hardly be a goal-fest! I recognised that in a one-off Cup game, any team has a chance against another, just as in the last season Boro had been able to beat Spurs and Manchester United before coming a cropper against Chelsea. But I also pointed out that if Boro played a team like, say, Spurs in 10 games we'd do well to win 1 or 2 games and draw 1 or 2 so that, over the course of 10 games we might very easily be expected to lose 7. And that's about it. Yesterday was one of the 7 "other" games.
5. I appreciate Burnley won away at Bournemouth yesterday. Burnley is top of our league and Bournemouth is currently 16th in the PL, one point above the relegation places - so in other words Burnley was 5 places in the football hierarchy below the team it beat, but Boro was (and remains) 17 places below Brighton. There will occasionally be teams from MUCH lower who will beat teams divisions above them in a Cup competition but such perfomances are notable giant-killing acts precisely because they are uncommon. You'll get a few each year but they are not to be expected and we shouldn't be surprised when the normal football order of things re-asserts itself. If at the start of the season you'd sat down to nominate, say, 5 teams out of the 92 league clubs and countless other non-league clubs, (let's say you'd chosen ManC, ManU, Arsenal, Chelsea and Liverpool - though I now know the last team WAS beaten yesterday), there's probably a much greater statistical chance that one of those teams WILL win the FA Cup in May than all of the other teams combined. Top teams tend to beat lower teams, not every time but most of the time, and that is the reality. Compared to Boro, Brighton is very definitely a TOP team.
6. I don't think the defeat will necessarily deflate the Boro and cause a deterioration in morale or performances in the Championship for the rest of the season. I recognise there is a lot of wishful thinking here and a certain amount of hypocrisy. If Boro had beaten Brighton yesterday people may well have said "Let's take confidence from that and recognise if we can beat a top Premier League team, we shouldn't fear anyone in the Championship. Promotion is within our grasp". Well, as I've already mentioned, Boro beat ManU (away) after extra time and penalties and very deservedly beat Spurs (at home) in extra time last season, but the "confidence" Boro must have got from those victories clearly didn't translate into performances at the business end of the league season as the team's performances tailed off and the club remains in the Championship. Much nonsence is written and talked about football - maybe much of it by me - and we've all heard it many times: "We beat a top team so can go into the rest of our season with confidence and momentum from here onwards...". "We lost in the cup but that now allows us to concentrate on the League with no Cup distractions". The reality is that when one game ends, professional players and coaches move onto the next game.
7. In other words, a win against Brighton would have been a very pleasant diversion and would have been something to savour. Perhaps just as importantly it would have meant other potentially lucrative Cup games to follow (imagine the money from shared crowds at Arsenal, ManU or ManC which could then drop into the club's bank account). But it wouldn't really affect the League season because I'd expect the professional approach of Michael Carrick and the coaching staff to make sure the focus of concentration would be 100% on the next League game and the one after that, irrespective of the result of a Cup game. So, in short, a win would have been nice but the defeat will not be a damaging wound.
8. Having said all the above (and this is where brickbats might be aimed at my head): we all knew that Brighton is a very good footballing team, playing a slick-passing possession-based game. Some might have said that to go, gung ho, at them would have been to invite disaster. Maybe that is correct - if you ONLY throw everything at the opposition rather than mixing it up. If you are a boxer facing an opponent noted for his boxing skills (let's say Muhammad Ali), would it be sensible for a boxer much lower in the rankings to try to OUTBOX Ali? You'd think that would end only one way. Or if you were a boxer facing a feared puncher like an up-and-coming Mike Tyson, would it be sensible to stand toe-to-toe with him in the hope or expectation of knocking him out before the reverse happens? You'd think that would only end up one way, as well. I think in trying to play out from the back, to try to play a possession game, against a team noted for playing that way, from the League above, the chances were even more heavily against Boro yesterday. There'd be more chance of success playing to your own strengths, or at least not to the strengths of the opposition. When Bolton had relative success against Wenger's Arsenal a couple of decades ago, Bolton wasn't a better footballing team than Arsenal so didn't try to out-football Arsenal (they might have got right up into a few faces, might have been as physical as it was felt could be got away with, and might have done as much to disrupt the football on offer from the "better" team, but they would certainly have come a poor second almost every time they tried to play Arsenal at Arsenal's game). So maybe Boro might have better tried to get "at" Brighton more, to put the ball into the penalty area early, but the chances must have been at least 70% even if we'd done that, Boro would still have lost. Usually, but not always, the better team should win. And Brighton was the better team by some margin.
9. So - Boro lost. No disgrace to lose to a much higher ranked team.. It might have been 3-1 rather than 5-1 but when their 3rd goal went in and my mate said if we were to score two we desperately needed to get the first of those goals soon, my comment to him was that if there were to be 2 more goals, it was more likely to 5-1 than 3-3. And that proved to be the case.
10. Boro lost. The players will dust themsleves down. There is a week for the manager and coaching staff to integrate Cameron Archer into the squad and to prepare the team for the next game at home to Millwall. A win in that game and all will seem rosy again. This is not a time for communal wrist-slashing. Let's see, shall we...?
I don’t think a reality check from time to time does any harm at all as it serves to keep everyone’s feet on the ground and prevents misplaced over confidence. Carrick appears to think the same was because his post match interview was very matter of fact with no histrionics, no doom and gloom, no overreaction and no despondency.
Instead he calmly explained that he thought his team did OK against a far superior opposition and will learn a lot from the experience. He also, as Plato says, emphasised that the defeat will have no impact on the way he is going to coach the team and the direction he is taking and his measured approach will have very positive effects on the team’s development and attitude. He is a class act.
Well. That was a lesson that was well worth the taking, even though it stings a little bit to see the gulf in quality so laid bare.
If we do go on to win promotion this season (and that is a realistic objective as things stand) both the current squad and us as fans know what we will be heading into. For MC and the coaching team, as well as the players it is good to know how you will need to improve if we are going to survive more than the first season up.
We are out of the cup, so no more distraction now and a reduced chance for fixture congestion as the season progresses.
I'm really looking forward to seeing Millwall on the receiving end of our reaction to that result yesterday.
Dear Bloggers, apologies to be absent without leave for quite awhile, however a healthy and peaceful New Year to all, especially John on his road to recovery, let it be a short one.
There have been some, as normal, some very good and interesting threads and follow up posts by all, as I have dipped in and out during my absence.
Thank you to OFB and Andy for their Match Day Headliners, Ken for his continued memories of times past, and all those that add so much to this wonderful blog.
Although I am still up to my eyes in it, hopefully I will be able to rejoin the comments on a more regular basis.
I won't comment on the Brighton match which I attended, only to say let's hope it is only a one off.
After the excitement of the FA Cup I thought I’d now turn my thoughts to the FIFA World Cup. There have now been 22 seasons of this competition and apart from the the first 4 years of the competition in 1930, 1934 and 1938 plus 1950 and 1958, when I was in Singapore I have watched every match until this year’s competition in Qatar which I didn’t feel it was appropriate for me to watch, I have seen every match on television. Nevertheless I’ve perused every single match including those before I was born, and collated all the results of all 972 matches ever played which included 756 positive results although some went to penalty shootouts and 216 finished as draws and in the earlier tournaments even to replays.
Apart from 1930 this involved a Grand Final after the preliminary groups of of the 16 qualifiers were whittled down to 8 qualifying countries, the top two in each group going into a straight knockout competition. This system continued until the 1978 competition in Argentina, after which the number of qualifiers was increased to 24 countries in Spain 1982, and to 32 in France 1998, and now there are suggestions that the number of qualifiers will be further increased to at least 40 in 2026. How this wlll work has not been divulged yet as far as I am aware.
Nevertheless so far 81 countries have participated in the 22 years to date, of which 20 have yet to win a match and another 8 of which have only won one match. As to date only 8 countries have won the World Cup - Brazil 5 times, Italy and Germany 4 times each, Argentina 3 times, Uruguay and France 2 times each, and England and Spain once each. With so many countries now successful in qualification, this was now then most difficult project I have ever attempted, so here are my findings about each country in alphabetical order with games played, won, drawn, and defeated in that order for each of the 81 countries that have participated:-
ALGERIA—————-13-3-3-7
ANGOLA——————3-0-2-1
ARGENTINA———-88-47-17-24
AUSTRALIA———— 20-4-4-12
AUSTRIA———- —-29-12-4-13
BELGIUM—————51-21-10-20
BOLIVIA—————— 6-0-1-5
BOSNIA HERZEGOVINA-3-1-0-2
BRAZIL—————114-76-19-19
BULGARIA—————26-3-8-15
CAMEROON————-26-5-8-13
CANADA———————6-0-0-6
CHILE———————-33-11-7-15
CHINA————————3-0-0-3
COLOMBIA—————-22-9-3-10
COSTA RICA———— 21-6-5-10
CROATIA——————-30-13-8-9
CUBA—————————3-1-1-1
CZECHOSLOVAKIA——28-8-6-14 (including CZECH REPUBLIC)
DENMARK——————- 24-9-6-9
EAST GERMANY————-6-2-2-2
ECUADOR———————13-5-2-6
EGYPT—————————-7-0-2-5
EL SALVADOR——— ——-6-0-0-6
ENGLAND———————74-32-22-20
FRANCE————————73-39-14-20
GERMANY——————112-68-21-23
GHANA—————————15-5-3-7
GREECE—————————10-2-2-6
HAITI———————————3-0-0-3
HONDURAS————————9-0-3-6
HUNGARY————————32-15-3-14
ICELAND—————————-3-0-1-2
INDONESIA————————-1-0-0-1 (formerly DUTCH EAST INDIES)
IRAN———————————-18-3-4-11
IRAQ————————————3-0-0-3
ISRAEL———————————3-0-2-1
ITALY——————————83-45-21-17
IVORY COAST————————9-3-1-5
JAMAICA——————————-3-1-0-2
JAPAN———————————25–7-6-12
KUWAIT———————————3-0-1-2
MEXICO——————————-60-17-15-28
MOROCCO————-————-23-5-7-11
NETHERLANDS——————55-30-14-11 (formerly HOLLAND)
NEW ZEALAND—————-——6-0-3-3
NIGERIA——————————-21-6-3-12
NORTHERN IRELAND————-13-3-5-5
NORTH KOREA————————7-1-1-5
NORWAY———————————8-2-3-3
PANAMA———————————3-0-0-3
PARAGUAY—————————27-7-10-10
PERU————————————18-5-3-10
POLAND——————————-38-17-6-15
PORTUGAL—————————-35-17-6-12
QATAR————————————-3-0-0-3
REPUBLIC OF IRELAND————13-2-8-3 (previously EIRE)
ROMANIA———————————21-8-5-8
SAUDI ARABIA————————-19-4-2-13
SCOTLAND——————————-23-4-7-12
SENEGAL————————————12-5-3-4
SERBIA————————————-49-18-9-22 (once with MONTENEGRO)
SLOVAKIA————————————4-1-1-2
SLOVENIA————————————6-1-1-4
SOUTH AFRICA —————————-3-1-1-1
SOUTH KOREA —————————38-7-10-21
SOVIET UNION ————————-45-19-10-16 (sometimes RUSSIA)
SPAIN—————————————-67-31-17-19
SWEDEN————————————-51-19-13-19
SWITZERLAND——————————41-14-8-19
TOGO————————————————3-0-0-3
TRINIDAD AND TOBAGO———————3-0-1-2
TUNISIA——————————————18-3-5-10
TURKEY———————————————10-5-1-4
UKRAINE———————————————5-2-1-2
UNITED ARAB EMIRATES———————3-0-0-3
UNITED STATES OF AMERICA————-37-9-8-20
URUGUAY——————————————59-25-13-21
WALES—————————————————8-1-4-3
YUGOSLAVIA—————————————-26-11-6-9 *
ZAIRE—————————————————-3-0-0-3
TOTAL 1,944-756-432-756
* denotes a former country now made up of BOSNIA-HERZEGOVINA, CROATIA, KOSOVO, MONTENEGRO, SERBIA and SLOVENIA.
pp
Let me state that the summing up by Forever Dormo is the most sensible I have read for some time and worthy of the status of a journalist from any quality newspaper. Looking at the formation of both teams, the chance of Boro winning that match was extremely remote. Let’s face it that winning any match by a penalty shootout is a lottery and Boro were fortunate to beat Manchester United last season. The win against Spurs was justified on the day, as was the beating of Manchester City in the FA Cup under Karanka because on the day Boro were the better team. On any given day any team can beat any other in the Championship, but that rarely happens in the Premier League. Various factors come into play, such as players carrying niggles, or having to travel long distances during matches, but given that all things being equal the better teams will generally come out on top 80% of the time.
I agree that yesterday’s cup match should have no bearing on Boro’s league matches. One doesn’t scrap a blueprint that has proved successful over several matches because the opposition excels itself, which Brighton are doing now at this moment in time. All matches in the Championship are competitive, but only Burnley and Sheffield United are way above any other sides in this league, and even they will probably be the bookies favourites for the drop next season. Under Chris Wilder Boro were too stereotyped, but Michael Carrick is willing to try some players in different positions as long as the framework of the team isn’t compromised.
Boro stlll have some leeway to make up, but the current system seems to be going rather well, but at the moment I wouldn’t pay too much attention to League tables. As we all realise this season is really a marathon, not a sprint and the accumulation of points is the key, not being too concerned about what other clubs are doing.
Here’s a rare match report from the Guardian:
Thank you Martin for that link, alongside Forever Dormo assessment, that was a really good report without emotional hysterics. Yes we were taught a football lesson and our frailties layer bare but it was against a top Premiership side who’s display yesterday was better than recent displays by Liverpool, Chelsea and a couple more of the “Top Six”. I watched the majority of the World Cup and was immensely impressed with Mac Allister, so it was a joy and pleasure to watch him in the “flesh” and he didn’t disappoint, pity it was against my beloved Boro.
Come on BORO.
On a brighter note, tonight’s U21 result:
Sunderland 5 Boro 7
Come on BORO.
@exmil Good result with a strong-ish team out. Downside was the weak defending not unlike the first team. 🤣
Worse though, Bola injured again in the first half. Looks as though we will need to be looking for LB cover. ☹️
Off topic but I’ve just discovered this song from the Young ‘Uns written as part of Radio 2’s 21st Century Folk series. Well worth a listen: https://youtu.be/GVNvLaNfniA
Off topic here, too but can Newcastle end their trophy drought?
The Magpies, who sit third in the Premier League and are hunting a first trophy in more than 50 years, did not let a fervent and expectant St James' Park down.
Newcastle beat Leicester by 2-0 yesterday. That sent the Magpies on their way to the Carabao Cup semi-final with victory over Leicester.
We of course won a trophy in 2004. That was nearly 20 years ago. I hope we do not need to wait another 30 years for the next trophy. There is always hoping that we go up and then could win a Cup.
Up the Boro!