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BORO v WBA
 

BORO v WBA

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Powmill-Naemore
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Topic starter  

BORO v  WBA

Riverside Stadium, Middlesbrough

19h45, Tuesday 21st  January 2025

SKY SPORTS+

 

Played

W

D

L

GF

GA

PTS

POS'n

WBA

27

9

14

4

33

22

41

6th

BORO

27

11

8

8

44

34

41

7th

 

Back at the end of September, I was sitting one Sunday afternoon preparing a short piece to introduce the upcoming game against WBA at their place on Tuesday evening 1st October. We had just beaten Stoke City at home by 2 goals to nil and everyone was still posting their comments after that game. Here we are, nearly 4 months later and I find myself in the same position, preparing something to introduce the upcoming game against WBA that will take place on Tuesday evening while myself and everyone else is still digesting the typical Boro result from Saturday. Kind of déjà vu, but not quite the same.

To be honest, I haven’t read any of the posts today. I am still feeling that little bit sick at heart  that my team, our team, is simply refusing to stand up to be counted. We might not have  a Premier-quality squad, but we do have a very good quality Championship squad and it is not unreasonable for us, the supporters, to expect for us to be seriously challenging near the top of the league. Something is wrong. The team is brittle, with a disappointingly fragile mentality. We lack leadership. Leadership on the pitch especially, but I am starting to think we lack leadership off the pitch too. For sure the way things like transfer windows are organised, each non-premier team is going to be disrupted in January and we are no different to any other team in respect of unsettling rumours that abound. But, in truth our malaise has been there for most of the season and there are many posts in many threads in here that have been calling out where we have been repeatedly falling short, showing no evidence anything is being done to address obvious weaknesses. Our playing style was worked out last season and everyone knows how to use that against us. It is a big failing of our coaching staff not to have tried different approaches to counter the teams that sit deep, letting us have all the possession, but having little idea how to make that possession count.

Perversely, we are still vying for a top six finish. That says much, much more about the overall quality in the Championship this year than it does about us. We are lucky that there are only a few teams at the top that are taking advantage of a weak Championship, so we are still in with a shout. The worry is that unless we do begin to offer some commitment and some way to turn possession into goals, we might make it to the playoffs to be easily hustled out of contention for the big day at Wembley.

How many more times this season is whoever is writing the thread opener going to have to say, this is now a must win game, we have to start to show that mettle and that belief and to begin to find the consistency we will need if a top 6 finish can be realised.

Certainly this game is one we really do need to see us play to some of our potential and to win three points. Well, never mind Boro. What of the opposition? You couldn’t have written it, the way that things have turned out. West Brom will be coming to the Riverside having just re-appointed one their previous and highly popular managers, one Tony Mowbray of this parish.

In his previous spell at the Hawthorns (2006/2009), Mogga narrowly missed out on promotion in his first season, totally rebuilt the side for his second season that saw WBA promoted as Champions, with TM being named manager of the year and which also included a narrow defeat to (premiership) Portsmouth in the semi-final of the FA Cup. Despite West Brom getting relegated the following season, the fans did not want to lose him, but Celtic had already come looking for his services.

This time, Mogga has inherited what should be a squad challenging for promotion, but that has lost its way since Boro defeated them 1-0 back in October. 14 draws speaks volumes. Saturday was another of those, with the Baggies salvaging a point after Stoke had taken the lead. Tuesday will be his second game in charge and, unfortunately for Boro, there are few managers out there that know Boro quite as well as our Tony. It is going to be extremely tough for us in this match and I am a little concerned that our lack of confidence and our coaches inability to find a successful way for us to play is going to help TM to the first victory of his second coming.

I would interested to hear if any of you think otherwise.

 

P.S.

For that thread opener for the away game with West Brom, I had done a little research into the origins of their nickname, The Throstles. Exmil piped up that it would have been interesting to know something about why they are also called The Baggies. I did reply that I needed to save some material to post for this game. So, maybe more of you than Exmil might be interested to hear the origins of “The Baggies” nickname.

 

Actually I have found three different stories, neither of which claims to be definitive, but the true answer is that no one really knows for sure.

 

One suggestion is that Villa supporters would disparage the West Bromwich locals for wearing ill-fitting, baggy clothes. The insult stuck and over time the club itself became known as The Baggies.

A second explanation is that WBA originally used to play in a kit made from a rough brown material that was known as “bagging”. The reference then to the team as “The Baggies” becomes quite obvious.

The final story has to do with when West Brom moved to The Hawthorns in 1900, that ground only had two gates, one at either end of the pitch. The office for the club was apparently located mid-way along one side of the pitch. So, once the crowd was in, the takings were carried in big cloth bags by the gates men, to the office. “Here come the bag-men” people would call out, with “bag-men” eventually becoming “baggies”. Over time, the team itself adopted the nick name.

I will let you decide for yourselves which version it is you want to believe.

 


jarkko
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@Powmill-Naemore An excellent starter for the WBA. Especiallly I liked the Baggies nickname history. As always, there are a few theories and especilly for me, it was difficult to see where the nick name might originate.

One small correction to your writing. The match on Tuesday will be the FIRST match in charge for Mogga at WBA. Chris Brunt was in temporary charge against Stoke on Saturday. So Mogga took over today, on Sunday.  https://www.bbc.com/sport/football/articles/cgmy1y37zkzo

Our Mogga got the final OK, that he is now fit after all his bowel cancer treatments on Tuesday, and signed for WBA on Friday. So Chris Brunt was stil in charge on Saturday. 

Mogga would be assisted by Mark Venus again on Sunday and at Riverside on Tuesday.

I hope the time is too short for Mogga to teach his players about all he knows about Boro. As the WBA excels on draws, we might share the spoils on Tuesday. But we are Boro, so there is hope we will surprice and win by 3-1 on Tuesday. Latte Lath scoring a brace and Fry heading in from a corner.

Up the Boro!

This post was modified 1 month ago by jarkko

Martin Bellamy
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An excellent read, P-N and a very fair summary of where we’re at performance-wise. 

The season could be on the brink of petering out and our current form will do little to make us an attractive option for players looking to make a move in the January window - either to join MFC, or to leave in search of richer pickings. 

I can’t say I’m optimistic about Tuesday’s game - it’s a 2-0 loss for me. 


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Thanks powmill for an excellent summary of where we are and and introduction to Tuesday's game. Two of the keys to Tuesday's game may be whether we start with Morris, which could be a big plus, and what is done about Azaz. As we know he is a potential match winner, but he has been a virtual passenger over the past few weeks. I'd like to see Gilbert given his role for the first hour.  It could be just the shock treatment Azaz needs to kick start his best form again


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Excellent piece thank you P-N and your summary mirrors what many of us have been saying/feeling for some time.

With Mogga’s knowledge of us and the fact that WA lose very few, then I can only see an away win on Tuesday.

As far as our season is concerned I believe it started to unravel sometime ago and I have seen nothing so far to convince me otherwise; should we somehow make into the top six I do not believe we have the grit, determination or leadership to win the play offs sadly, which is a poor indictment of all at MFC. 😎


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Great Stuff PN

It was just what I needed to regenerate the batteries and draw up some enthusiasm for the game on Tuesday evening.

Much appreciated 

OFB


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@original-fat-bob 

OFB you have some enthusiasm for Tuesday! I need some of what you are drinking. Will the crowd turn if the team appear not to be bothered, we shall see


Pedro de Espana
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A belter of a Headliner Powmill, well detailed and the added “Baggies” story of where their nickname came from. Which one is the most believable, I will have to sleep on that.  😊

Unfortunately, I have committed to attending the game on Tuesday night, when I was thinking of giving it a miss. Poor home form, the chance to leapfrog WBA, Mogga’s first game in charge.

What could go wrong. Carrick continuing with his plan A, that is not working. The defence continuing to leak goals in front of our porous midfield. And rain is forecast. 

I was listening to Henry Winter on TalkSport this morning, talking about the upcoming game between Everton and Spurs. They talked about Postecoglou and his insistence to continue with his system when it is not working. Mr Winter said, any good coach in the EPL has a plan B, and can change to suite the different teams and changing situations if needed. 
Does that ring a bell somewhere?

So, another “must win game” and at home. A defeat on Tuesday night with any performance resembling yesterday’s second half and I believe the fans may well start to turn against Carrick.

I think I have just about lost my faith in him 


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Thank you Powmill for a great starter. As OFB says, it stimulates enthusiasm for the upcoming game.

The team must play with enthusiasm too! We need bite and snap in the tackle, resolve which lasts the whole 90 + minutes and the courage to play with aggression and imagination, to play to win.

There is definitely enough talent there. They are maybe low on confidence, in which case MC needs to pick them up. 

MC should be up for it too - managing Boro, and matched against Mogga. That is sport at the top level! Such chances don't always come frequently.

UTB Chris

 


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Thanks for the intro Powmill. WBA have not won away in 6 league games since they won at Hull in November, although they have only lost 3 times away, and only 4 overall. I recall that in 2009 they came to the Riverside and won 5-0, and we were unbeaten at home before then, a repeat tomorrow? Referee tomorrow is Andrew Kitchen, from Durham, who was in charge of the away game against Burnley and had a good game.

Speaking of Burnley I wonder how their fans feel after the game are they happy to be third in the table or do they crave entertainment? Since their first two games, in which they scored 29% of their goals for the season, they average less than a goal for a game. 5 of their home games have been goalless as have 4 of their away games. Does the only thing that matters is that you get promoted regardless of how it is achieved?


Selwynoz
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@mw-in-darwin 

I'd rather watch Boro as they try to play attacking football. I'm enjoying the way that we try to move the ball forward, to counter-attack and to entertain. I admire the club for what it does in the community.

I've also realised that I'm almost at the point where I don't care whether or not we get promoted. Suffering what is currently happening to Southampton, Leicester and Ipswich doesn't look like much fun. 

I'd like to have the fun of the play-offs and will, of course, take promotion if it comes.

U(?)TB


Martin Bellamy
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@selwynoz That sums up my philosophy too - I’m not sure promotion is the Nirvana it claims to be. Like you, I’ll take it if it happens, but a season in the EPL could be more like purgatory than heaven.


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Powmill, I'm in complete agreement with your quite restrained comments about Boro and where they are at.

The only people with any fire in their bellies and steel in their resolve are the fans. The team should take a lesson from them, perhaps the players should travel to the next away match spread out through the small family cars, one to each car, and individually have a fans pep talk from the other four occupants on good long away trip and not in a luxury coach or aeroplane. Oh yes, no headphones either, they wouldn't be able to cancel out the sound the bollocking. Oops, sorry 'pep talk'.

How many goals have Boro conceded down the left? I started to try to work it out but got more and more frustrated, cross and bored. No doubt our defensive coaches are switched on to the problem?

No prediction from me but I think I'm in agreement with Martin.

The natives could be getting very restless on Tuesday.

UTB,

John


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@Powmill-Naemore - Thanks for the Match Preview and particularly the "Baggies' name theories".  I've no idea.  If I had to guess, I'd say the bag-money explanation.

I'd add that there is perhaps no manager in the game who knows more about the qualities of the Boro squad, its good points and its weaknesses, than Tony Mowbray. A couple of days ago I saw the Boro podcast on the MFC Website.  Hosted by Craig Hignett with David Wheater, it had Mogga as the guest being interviewed. It was clear from the interview that Mogga likes attractive football and understands the benefits of keeping possession, but he also realises you need the right players for that and that there are times when a different approach may be the right way forward.  Horses for courses, or different tactics for different situations - call it what you want but inflexibility is not a good trait in a coach.


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Powmill-Naemore, thank you for the opener and especially answering my question about the origin of the nickname “the Baggies”, I certainly wasn’t expecting a choice of 3, for my own logic I will choose the loose fitting clothes worn by the supporters, based on why we are known as the “Smoggies”.

I travel back from Portsmouth tomorrow, arriving back in Boro in plenty of time to take my seat in the east stand for the WBA game, another worry about it being Tony Mowbray’s first match in charge, is that I believe before he moved to WBA he attended Boro’s last 3 home games, mind you he may not have been impressed with 2 draws and a defeat and 1 goal scored.

I too, was pleased to see Morris come on for the last 20+ minutes on Saturday, hopefully fit enough to start on Tuesday, even if we only can get 60 minutes out of him. Also I hope Dijksteel is fit to start and I would like to give McCabe given a another chance to see if it is worth retaining him rather than sending him out on loan, I think he could be a game changer off the bench. Alex Gilbert is another who I think deserves more game time than he is getting because they are relying on “old faithfuls” and maybe that’s what we need to shake some of these players up. Do I hope McGree is fit to start 🤔, I am not sure at the expense of Burgzorg.

Come on BORO.

 


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Thanks for a sobering yet very interesting preview Powmill of a game that will probably be more of a celebration of Mogga's return to football after his serious illness - I'm sure he'll get a special hero's welcome at the Riverside by the Boro faithful fitting for the top bloke he is.

I normally have a Diasboro-free day on Sunday and especially after a lacklustre display and dropped points against teams we should be beating - though Monday has brought little extra enthusiasm as it looks increasingly problematic for Carrick to assemble the pieces back to where they were pre-Christmas.

OK, the return of Morris is much needed and I'd agree with Exmil that McCabe should be starting ahead of the other out-of-form midfielders - indeed, I'd hoped to have seen him start at Portsmouth after his FA cup display - in truth he wouldn't have done any worse.

We've seen time and time again this season that Boro have struggled to pass the ball out of defence when teams press them with coordination and energy - we've also seen them struggle against pace running at defence. Perhaps this also a structural issue and often having midfielders who pick up early bookings for needless challenges and then need to hold back somewhat.

I'm sure Mogga will know how to play against us after watching most of our games and often commentating on what was wrong and how to counter our pace. Unfortunately, I'll miss most of the first half due to handball training duties and also sadly the welcoming of Mogga!

btw On the Baggies nickname - I've often over the years looked into lots of theories and speculation of clubs and their origins - I seem to recall West Brom's early blue-striped kit was something to do with soap branding but can't remember if there were any bags involved? If I had to choose I'd probably go for the Villa insult being reclaimed as the most plausible.


Clive Hurren
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Thanks for a good scene-setting opener, Powmill. It is, as werder said, quite sobering, but that’s clearly where we find ourselves now with optimism in short supply. 

We need to win tomorrow. It’s the kind of game against tough(er) opponents that Boro often spring a surprise in after a string of disappointing results, so I wouldn’t rule out a home win, even if the odds are somewhat stacked against that. Crucially, we must ‘turn up,’ show a tougher mentality and put our bodies on the line. I’m hoping Morris will play a key part in that. The fans will probably forgive the lads, even if we draw, provided Boro get stuck in and scrap for every ball. We need to see them fighting for the shirt. Anything less might well attract supporters’ understandable and justifiable ire. 

I need to keep reminding myself, despite my current mood, that we still have 57 points to play for, so everything is still possible. A couple of wins puts us back on track, hopefully starting tomorrow. But failure to win or draw against WBA , with very tough games versus PNE and Sunland to come, could see us slide rapidly down the slippery slope to mid-table mediocrity. Everything crossed. UTB. 

 


Pedro de Espana
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I have just read that Lewis O'Brien is possibly available for a loan from his parent club Forrest.

Now that would be a good loan if true and available.


Selwynoz
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@pedro 

I think that I would prefer Kamara.

utb


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@selwynoz 

Either one would strengthen us.


Pedro de Espana
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@lenmasterman   As long as it is not Giles.   🤣🤣


Pedro de Espana
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Also just read, that Dijksteel and McGree will not be back until, until at least, after the Sunderland game. 

What are they doing in training? Playing Rugby. 


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Posted by: @pedro

Also just read, that Dijksteel and McGree will not be back until, until at least, after the Sunderland game. 

What are they doing in training? Playing Rugby. 

My thoughts exactly. Rugby, or some sort of cage fighting.

 


Martin Bellamy
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Just seen that one of Mogga's backroom team is James Morrison who's job title is First team coach. Mowbray's title is Head Coach. Also apparently we have bid 5 million + for Morgan Whittaker from Plymouth

https://www.gazettelive.co.uk/sport/football/transfer-news/middlesbrough-morgan-whittaker-transfer-interest-30822731


Powmill-Naemore
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Topic starter  

Posted by: @paulinboro

@original-fat-bob 

OFB you have some enthusiasm for Tuesday! I need some of what you are drinking. Will the crowd turn if the team appear not to be bothered, we shall see

that is a big concern @PaulInBoro. No!!!, not what are OFB and your drinking habits, but that the crowd will get onto the team if it doesn't come out on the front foot.

 

This post was modified 4 weeks ago by Powmill-Naemore

Powmill-Naemore
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Topic starter  

Posted by: @lenmasterman

@selwynoz 

Either one would strengthen us.

taking both on board might  be a good idea.

 


Powmill-Naemore
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Topic starter  

Posted by: @chris-from-barlby

Posted by: @pedro

Also just read, that Dijksteel and McGree will not be back until, until at least, after the Sunderland game. 

What are they doing in training? Playing Rugby. 

My thoughts exactly. Rugby, or some sort of cage fighting.

 

there is, of course, individual/team/squad morale to consider as a factor. I suspect that a player is more prone to injury when struggling mentally. These two in particular have always been suspected of not being MC's favorites, or of having more to prove to get selected, so individually they may be  more vulnerable in training sessions. Neither, can I believe that as a collection of players that morale and confidence and self belief is high in our camp at this time, so potentially everyone is more vulnerable to injury from their mental state.

 


Powmill-Naemore
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Topic starter  

Thank you to everyone for the kind comments on my opening piece. It certainly wasn't the essay that I originally thought I was going to write, but after Saturday's reverse I couldn't find any inspiration to write anything with any levity and so I just let my fingers type following the way I was feeling and thinking. Come to think of it, it appears that I reacted to the state of affairs and came up with a plan B, rather than sticking to my original formula. (Allegory is alive and well in this corner of Scotland, 😉)

Some great responses as well. I am in the camp that will be happy to just miss out on promotion, so as to avoid having a season long reminder of the gulf in standards between the top of the Championship and the Premier League. The trouble is, you need access to the riches that come your way even when relegated straight away,  in order to begin to build a squad that will have a chance of avoiding the drop after a boomerang or two. As several have observed, there is a host of teams currently prospering and continuing to show it is not an impossible chasm to cross. So, despite all my reservation, promotion has to be our aim.

What will never be acceptable, is to have a team that does not raise itself to give everything in every game it plays. If the team plays without spirit, the crowd will turn. If the crowd turns, then the team will play without spirit. The only spiral then, is down.

I am delighted that Morris was back on the field of play on Saturday. He has to start tonight, even if he will need to be rested after 60 or 70 minutes: he must start.

If no McGree, then Gilbert.

If no Borges... I mean to say, for goodness sake, please no Borges. Anyone but Borges. Engel please, given the lack of an alternative.

If Dieng was fit for the bench on Saturday, he should have been on the pitch. Please let us see Glover dropped tonight.

Above all, I want to see some pace tonight. Pace from the start, not at the end when we are chasing the game. Pace, conviction and 100% effort and I will accept any result. Anything less, then even if we will win, the worries I have about this team and this coaching set up will all be reinforced.

This post was modified 4 weeks ago 4 times by Powmill-Naemore

jarkko
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I have listened to the two interview rounds on Mogga in the past week by Bernie Slaven. And seen the interview with him at mfc.co.uk last weekend. 

The lastest article about the new WBA manager is here: https://www.bbc.com/sport/football/articles/c4gz9e04mlyo

Surprisingly, Mowbray admits he would prefer not to have had his first game back at Boro, close to where he still lives on Teesside.

"Everybody I know is a Boro fan," he said. "I supported them all my life and played there until I was 28.

"The point is that I've seen them play a lot this year and, whether I've seen something there that we turn into an advantage, we'll have to say. But what I do know is that Michael Carrick has them very well coached."

The match tonight will be a weard one with all the emotions towards Mogga before the match. But let's hope it will be his and our favourite club, that will win today. But an interesting match anyway. Live on BoroLive for us overseas.

Up the Boro!

 

 

This post was modified 4 weeks ago by jarkko

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