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Boro v Hull
 

Boro v Hull

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Boro v Hull City - Wed 13th December 2023 (ko 8pm) - Riverside Stadium.

Where have we been since we last met over a hot laptop? In what now seems like a distant hazy memory, that last time was when we reached the heights of a Riverside 1-0 win over Wayne Rooney's Birmingham City on 21st October, via the peaks of Everest, K2, Annapurna, The Eiger, Ben Macdui and An Teallach amongst others (even little Catbells featured). Leaving the stadium that day in October felt good, as it usually does with 3 points tucked away in the back pocket, and I imagine I could have floated up to a mountain summit without requiring the effort of having to walk, scramble or climb through the clouds.

Any win being a good result, we now have to hope that our heroes won't bring us back down to Earth with a crash. Maybe a splash would be more appropriate since the Riverside is at sea level with the tidal River Tees lapping away within a few yards of the North Stand. Hull itself (more properly called the city of Kingston Upon Hull as any resident, or Wikipedia, will tell you) is also at sea level as it rests at the confluence of the River Hull and the tidal Humber Estuary, and the city has long been a major port as well as previously the base of a large fishing fleet.
For all that its team's supporters may think otherwise, Hull City AFC is one of the least remarkable things about the city. Already a town/village called Wyke, it is said that in 1299 King Edward I was hunting in the area in a foray to the North of his realm and liked the view so much that the place subsequently became chartered as the King's Town Upon Hull which soon became "Kingston" Upon Hull.

Unlike the rest of the UK, where a national telephone company which had taken over some local and regional firms and was itself eventually taken over by the GPO, so that the country ended up with a telephone network with its famous uniformly-red phone boxes (green if you are at Fangdale Beck in Bilsdale, North York Moors, at the request of Lord Feversham in order to "blend in with the countryside"), Kingston Upon Hull set up its OWN telecommunications service, which it retained, with its distinctive cream coloured phone boxes. The city has no BT landlines and KCOM (formerly Kingston Communications) serves the vast majority of residents and businesses in Hull, Beverley and Cottingham. Hull was the first city in the UK to have full coverage of an ultrafast full-fibre broadband in October 2019 when its Lightstream service was completed - just in time to Work From Home when Covid-19 struck early the next year!

We may often scoff at whichever city is appointed "UK City of Culture" but when Hull held that role in 2017 it was richly deserved for a substantial record of involvement in the Arts & Culture over many years. The city has a long history of promoting Theatre and Classical Music as well as poetry. And that is to ignore its many museums and the role played by its MP, William Wilberforce, in pursuing legislation in Parliament to abolish the slave trade.

In terms of sport, Association Football long held (and, some maintain, still does) 2nd place in Hull to Rugby League Football - Hull FC (founded in 1882) and Hull Kingston Rovers (oldest RL club in the world founded in 1865) are both Rugby League Clubs with big support and long traditions and histories. Hull FC has won the League Championship 6 times and the Challenge Cup 5 times, whilst Hull KR has won the League Championship 5 times and the Challenge Cup once.

Hull FC is definitely NOT the team facing Boro in this fixture. A previous owner of Hull City (Assem Allam) did try to change the name of the Association Football team from Hull City AFC (founded as recently as 1904) to Hull City Tigers - he originally wanted only Tigers or Hull Tigers - but that was in the teeth of fierce opposition from the supporters, and the FA finally closed the door to that scheme in 2014 and 2015. Ownership has since changed.

At this stage the writer must make a confession. Time constraints require that this Opener is typed on the evening of Friday 8th December, in other words BEFORE the match tomorrow against Ipswich Town is played. It might not be SUBMITTED until Saturday 9th or Sunday 10th December but since the Hull game is to be played on Wednesday 13th, Friday 8th was the most likely typing opportunity, given other matters that need attention in the few days left before the game.

THEREFORE, at the time of typing, Hull City lies in 6th place (so, in a Play-Off position) on 30 points, whereas injury ravaged Boro lies 12th on 27 points. Of course that could change in light of the intervening games the 2 teams have to play on 9th December. Hull City travel to lowly QPR (in a relegation spot, 22nd on 16 points and destined to remain in that position no matter what happens tomorrow) whilst our Boro heroes face 2nd placed Ipswich at the Riverside. The very same Ipswich only 1 point behind leaders Leicester City and currently a massive 18 points ahead of Boro. One way of looking at those fixtures would be to say that a win for Hull City, which would take that team 6 points ahead of Boro and which would leave Hull safely within the Play-Off places, seems more likely than a win for Boro against the high-flying Tractor Boys.

But that is speculation. Let's look not at what may happen against Ipswich Town, but what has happened in the previous 6 LEAGUE games played by Boro and by Hull...

Listing the games played most recently first, the results are:

02.12.23 - Leeds Utd 3-2 BORO
28.11.23 - BORO 4-0 PNE
25.11.23 - Bristol C 3-2 BORO
11.11.23 - BORO 1-0 Leicester C
04.11.23 - Plymouth A 3-3 BORO
24.10.23 - Norwich C 1-2 BORO

On the other hand, for Hull City over that timescale:

02.12.23 - Hull C 1-2 Watford
28.11.23 - Hull C 4-1 Rotherham
25.11.23 - Swansea C 2-2 Hull C
11.11.23 - Hull C 1-0 Huddersfield T
04.11.23 - WBA 3-0 Hull C
28.10.23 - Hull C 1-0 PNE

IN OTHER WORDS, over those 6 league matches played by each team,

BORO has W3, L2, D1.
Hull C has W3, L2, D1.

All of which might, at first sight, seem much of a muchness BUT BORO played only 2 of those 6 games at home and won both of them, whilst Hull City has had 4 games at home and only 2 away - losing one and drawing one. On that basis it would seem (prior to the Ipswich and QPR games) that Boro's home form is better than Hull City's away form.
OFB will no doubt be cleaning down his Foam Hands with an expectation of waggling them in the air to celebrate a comfortable Home win for BORO against Hull. Who knows, maybe by his favourite 3 goals?

But are there any names we might know who currently play for Hull City AFC? The names of Aaron Connolly, Cyrus Christie and Adama Traore might ring some bells though, to be fair, it is Adama Noss Traore rather than the familiar former Barcelona/Villa/Boro/Wolves/Barcelona-again/Fulham speed-merchant (the middle name was used to avoid confusion between the 2 Traores).

Who should we be worried about? Jaden Philogene has played 16 league games, scoring 6 goals and with 5 assists and 3 yellow cards. Liam Delap has played all 19 games, scoring 5 with 1 assist, and (be still my beating heart) Aaron Connolly has played 16 with 5 goals and 4 yellow cards. Traore has played 15 with 2 goals, one assist and 3 yellows whilst Cyrus Christie has, not surprisingly, not scored any goals in his 17 games but has 1 assist, and 2 yellow cards. If that doesn't sound like a team with a sharp cutting edge up front, the same might be said about BORO. We have Izzy Jones (18 games/4 goals), Sam Greenwood (14/4), Latte Lath (13/4), Crooks (15/3) and McGree (10/3). In the league, 'Ull has scored 29 and conceded 24 whilst BORO has scored 31 but conceded 29 - all, of course, up to 8th December. That might suggest not a great deal of clear blue water between the two teams and, in that case, it might be that home advantage will carry some weight.

It may only be 4 clear days away at the time of typing, but it is difficult with my eyesight to see the crystal ball at this range, much less to see what image is being displayed inside said ball. By December 13th City may be 6 points ahead of Boro, with the wind in the 'Ull sails whilst Boro may be smarting after a home defeat against Ipswich which not only dents the home record but which would also make it 2 league defeats in a row following the loss at Leeds. On the other hand a win against Ipswich would have Boro supporters believing again (if they ever doubted) and the players would be confident. All that might cause the clouds to swirl a little within that crystal ball. But I will be bold. I will suggest a narrow BORO win (1-0 or 2-1) against Hull City.

I do, of course realise that, should Boro's injury list grow any further, and the much-feared (by the supporters) call from on high is made to @Jarrko and possibly to your humble author to fill the otherwise empty defensive positions in the team, as per the last thread on this Blog, then ANYTHING is possible. Should he get a game, I'd expect a thumping header from a corner by @Jarkko to burst the Hull City net, which would continue what seems at first sight to be an unusual sequence of BORO goals resulting from corner kicks. If you think THAT scenario unlikely, I'd just like to point out the goals which came from corners in the games against PNE and Leeds have a massive hens' teeth rarity value for BORO. The odds against 2 such goals in consecutive games must have been enormous - like the odds against a thirsty man in the middle of the Sahara Desert finding a working tap serving draught Timothy Taylor's Landlord right next to another working tap serving nice cool drinking water and a cupboard containing a couple of glasses and cartons of aspirin tablets.

Maybe I'm just becoming delirious. It's the joy and expectation of being a BORO supporter. I hope I feel this way after the game on December 13th.

FD.


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Thanks FD for an interesting and informative opener, which was an enjoyable read on a sunny Sunday afternoon on the Costa Blanca.  

Yesterday was not a good day and we can only hope that Wednesday evening will be better.  Dijksteel and Jones to return to the staring line up and hopefully Hackney and or McGree to play some part.

We need three points and to get back to winning ways quickly if we are going to sustain a push for a top six place; I will be happy with a clean sheet and one goal for the Boro, any more being a bonus.

I don’t want to contemplate any other result. 😎


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Thanks FD

Appreciate a more cheery note on a cold wet Sunday afternoon after still smarting from a dismal Boro display. Even my foam hands are soggy!

 

Many thanks

OFB

 


   
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Selwynoz
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@forever dormo

Thanks for that excellent intro. Lots of stuff about Hull that I wasn't aware of from my far-flung situation.

It does look as if the Championship is turning into a number of very distinct battles.

1. Battle for Top four with it looking to be Leicester for automatic plus one from three.

2. Battle for fifth and sixth with West Brom looking strong and maybe a dozen teams including Boro looking for a shot at sixth.

3. Battle for relegation with Huddersfield, Sheffield Wednesday and Rotherham looking to be in trouble now that QPR have turned into one of the form teams in the division under their new manager. The interesting question to ask is who else may get pulled into the battle with Birmingham, Plymouth, Millwall and Stoke currently in line. Stoke sacked Alex Neill overnight and, given that Birmingham and Millwall have just changed their managers, it's going to be fun to watch what they do. I hope Plymouth stay up .... and keep their manager.

UTB


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@original-fat-bob - No problem. At one point I thought I'd deleted the saved Opener piece from my laptop (!!!) but managed to avoid that catastrophe and downloaded (uploaded?) it successfully to the Blog.  But it was a nervy few minutes. Let's get on with Life.... Keep fingers or foam hands crossed for 3 points against Hull City!


   
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Thanks for the opener FD. Just seen on the BBC that Philogene is out ,sounds like knee ligament damage. Hull will be determined to get a result after losing at QPR. A draw me thinks.

 


   
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Selwynoz
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@mw-in-darwin 

He's a big loss for them.

We will automatically be stronger even if just with Jones and Dijksteel back from suspension. Having them back will re-create the right wing threat they and Crooks provide and that was absent against Ipswich. 

UTB


Pedro de Espana
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Nice Headliner Dormo, with lots of interesting pieces.

I have only ever been to Hull, once, when staying in nearby Beverly. We got the train in and had a great day, I think it may have been the year it was the City of Culture.

As to Wednesdays game, I cannot see the Boro playing any worse than against Ipswich. Hopefully with Jones and possibly the inclusion of Dijksteel to start, although I think MC prefers VDB, even at RB, we may have a more rounded team starting.

I have no idea if any of the injured players a ready to be included. Anyway, a must win, to keep the fans happy at home and to keep in touch with sixth place.

 


   
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No disrespect intended, but Philogene does sound like something you might rub onto a dodgy knee.

Thanks Dormo for a typically well-informed and entertaining opener. 

I'll go for 1-0 with substitute Jarkko clinching it with a late header.

 


jarkko
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@lenmasterman and dormo

I have a back problem now. So I might join Paddy McNair on the tretment room. Carrick has promised that I can put some medicine to my back in here and stay in Finland as I have a customer visit on Wednesday evening. Luckily I will catch the match on TV, though. 

An excellent starter. I hope the right side will work again if Crooks, Jones and Dijksteel are in the side.

I hope we will get McGree back soon or we will get Greenwood back in form on the left. Also Rogers can be used on the left if Jones get on to the pitch on the right-hand side.

I have been to Hull (or Kingston) only once. But did see Boro winning there. No other memories than the match as we did not stay there. But we saw HalifaxP (remember him?) and Rhys Williams at the ground. Rhys was injured at the time (again).

I hope Boro to pick up some points. We cannot afford to lose again, but I am afraid it will be a 1-1 draw with Latte Lath scoring again. Up the Boro!

This post was modified 4 months ago 3 times by jarkko

Martin Bellamy
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@forever-dormo A great starter - I used to visit clients in ‘Ull in a previous life and always liked the city and its people. I even did the Sustrans, Hull to Middlesbrough cycle route with a friend, many years ago - very enjoyable it was too. 
I’m looking forward to watching the game on Sky on Wednesday night, although I’m being pessimistic about the score with a 1-1 forecast.


   
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We have lots of relatives with Hull connections. I've also been there for work and my Dad was stationed at Spurn Point during the war.

I've always felt that it had an undeservedly bad reputation, mainly perhaps just from being so inaccessible from the rest of the country. We also visited during the City of Culture year and found it to be a spectacular place. Stunning natural geography with it's position on the Humber, very impressive architecture, used as a substitute for London in the Victoria series, and loads of impressive museums and galleries.
 
I wish my enthusiasm stretched to my optimism about Boro's chances this week after Saturday's turgid performance. Maybe I'll get there by Wednesday.

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Morning, fellow Diaborians!  Sorry to hear about your back @Jarkko.  I suppose it means that I am one place nearer to the "call-up" so I will take my shorts with me in case I am required.

Interesting that Hull was used for much of the filming of "Victoria", especially in light of the fact that the city was one of the most heavily bombed parts of the UK during WW2, so I guess very large areas of it were totally destroyed (I imagine particularly the docks and the industrial areas, but obviously other parts, too). Perhaps there was a great deal of rebuilding.

Whilst it would be very easy to understand that Saturday's performance should drain the enthusiasm of even the most fervent of supporters, I am with the others in hoping/believing that by Wednesday the juices will be flowing again.


   
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jarkko
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@forever-dormo Yes, I got the problem while PLAYING football on Friday. We have indoor halls with afro turf for that purpose everywhere in Finland. We have had 10 cm of snow for over two weeks outdoors now - and in some parts of the country up to 60 cm.

I tested my back yesterday by playing futsal - a kind of indoor footy with a softer ball and a hard, wooden floor. In Brazil and Portugal they are even professional in this sport. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Futsal_in_England

So I hardly could run yesterday and I think I should be 100 % fit to play for the Boro. But I am sure Dael Fry can debutise for me on Wednesday.  If not, I guess Dormo could help, too. He has been a regular at the Riverside as long as the ground has been there. Up the Boro!

This post was modified 4 months ago by jarkko

   
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@jarkko 

You might try a large dollop of Philogene for your back.

Hope it's better soon


   
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@lenmasterman - Phyllosan Fortifies the Over-Forties.... 

"Go to work on an egg"  --  "A Mars a day helps you work, rest and play..."  --  "It does just what it says on the tin"  -- "Have a break, have a KitKat"  --   "Should have gone to SpecSavers" (rather more recent) --  The men or women who put forward those advertising lines could hardly have expected they would be remembered so many years later!

This post was modified 4 months ago by Forever Dormo

   
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@forever-dormo 

Yet, say any of those things to the kids of today and they give you a funny look.

What's the matter with them.


   
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From NE

MICHAEL CARRICK expects to receive an early Christmas present with Hayden Hackney set to return to the Middlesbrough line-up in the next couple of weeks.

Hackney has missed Boro’s last three matches because of a hamstring injury, and is not expected to be involved in Wednesday’s home game with Hull City.

However, his problem is not a long-term one and he should be back in the fold ahead of the Christmas programme, with next week’s Carabao Cup quarter-final at Port Vale a potential return date.

“We’re hoping Hayden will be back before Christmas,” said Carrick, whose side will be looking to bounce back at the Riverside on Wednesday after losing at home to Ipswich Town at the weekend. “It’s definitely not long term. There’s a few of them out at the moment, but it is what it is.”

 

Carrick does not expect to have any of his injury absentees back available to face Hull, with Paddy McNair, Riley McGree, Marcus Forss and Lewis O’Brien still unable to take part in full training. Darragh Lenihan and Tommy Smith are set to miss the remainder of the campaign.

Anfernee Dijksteel and Isaiah Jones return to the squad after suspension though, and Dael Fry came through Saturday’s game unscathed as he returned from his own injury issue.

READ MORE:

“We seem to be okay coming out of the weekend,” said Carrick. “I never like to get too carried away at the moment because, as it happens, there has always been something around the corner.

“But certainly, as we stand, we’re not too bad and obviously we have Izzy and Anf coming back from suspension too, which adds to the group. I don’t really think we’ll have any others back though. I think we’ll continue as we are, which is fine.”

Boro came up short as they lost to Ipswich on Saturday, but despite the current number of absentees, Carrick remains adamant his side is capable of taking on anyone in the Championship, as highlighted by their win over leaders Leicester City in their previous home game.

“The team we had out on the pitch on Saturday was a good team,” he said. “We keep having to make a few tweaks here and there, which does make a difference in terms of consistency because of wavelengths and new partnerships. But as a group of individuals, quality-wise, we’ve got enough to win any game.”


   
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Selwynoz
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Posted by: @forever-dormo

@lenmasterman - Phyllosan Fortifies the Over-Forties.... 

"Go to work on an egg"  --  "A Mars a day helps you work, rest and play..."  --  "It does just what it says on the tin"  -- "Have a break, have a KitKat"  --   "Should have gone to SpecSavers" (rather more recent) --  The men or women who put forward those advertising lines could hardly have expected they would be remembered so many years later!

Another blast from the past - “the Esso sign means happy motoring” and don’t start me on Esso Blue using “others that you buy..smoke gets in your eyes”. 

I don’t want to know how many years ago these came out.

utb

 


   
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jarkko
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ICI - that's my petrol. Or something like that. Mind, I have never lived in the UK but been following Boro since 1970 aged nine.

"Go to work on an egg" - that is an interesting one. We had exactly the same slogan but translated into Finnish. So it must have been copied from the UK and just translated (Mene munalla töihin).

Up the Boro!

This post was modified 4 months ago by jarkko

   
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Powmill-Naemore
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"It's funny how you remember when you get to the end", but I haven't said thank you yet FD for a great introduction to the City of Kingston upon Hull. There are a few things in there that I didn't know, both about the city itself and the current Hull City. I've visited Hull a couple of times in the dim and fading past, but it is the creamy coloured telephone boothes that stick most in my memory, it just seemed to be, how can I express it, just not British!

As for tonight, if we want to be considered serious  contenders for a play off berth we could really do with winning this one. I find it quite remarkable that even given our slight reversal in form since  Norwich we remain within 3 points of 6th. Another 3 points  below us are Saturday's opponents, Swansea, in 16th. There is so much to play for for so many clubs at this stage. Defeating both Hull tonight and Swansea on Saturday could be very important to us by the time spring comes around.

I have not had the opportunity to see the boys playing for a few games now, so unable to contribute much in the way of an assessment of our chances. So I am just getting a whiff of the foam from OFB and I am going to predict the return of Boro3.

3-1 then, as we concede an early Hull goal.

CoB


   
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jarkko
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@powmillnaemore We will play at 20:00 tomorrow 😉. Up the Boro!


   
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Powmill-Naemore
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@jarkko 

Thanks Jarkko. Of course we are. I did know that, really. No idea where my mind was at this morning while typing that last post. 

Even though it happens often enough these days, Boro playing mid-week at home on a Wednesday and not a Tuesday still doesn't feel quite right to me. 


   
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jarkko
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@powmillnaemore Totally agree. It used to be Tuesdays at Ayresome Park. Just wanted to correct if you had planned to watch it on TV ...  up the Boro!


   
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Surely this would be illegal 🤔.

https://the72.co.uk/2023/12/12/middlesbrough-boss-approached-by-pl-club-ahead-of-potential-summer-appointment/

Come on BORO.


   
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Unbelievable attack by Turkish club president on a referee, at the end of a Turkish super league match last night.

https://www.skysports.com/football/news/11095/13028415/ankaragucu-president-punches-referee-two-detained-as-turkish-super-lig-game-descends-into-chaos-after-full-time

Come on BORO.

 


   
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@powmillnaemore 

Go on then you’ve fired me up as well !

Boro3 it is then !

With these hands 🙌 🎶🎶🎶

OFB


   
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@forever-dormo 

Now hands that do dishes feel as soft as your face 🎶🎶

OFB


   
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Powmill-Naemore
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See that @forever-dormo and his brilliant opening threads? I bet he drinks Carling Black Label.


   
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@exmil - If it happened it would certainly be "destabilising" for Boro.

As to "illegal", approaching the Boss of another club (ie surruptitiously and without asking permission first from the manager's club - that club might make it clear that if the manager leaves, it would expect to be compensated or no agrteement will be given) would not be a criminal offence (ie illegal).  However it might be something which would open up the offending club/intermediary to a civil claim (ie being sued for damages) if that club was attempting to persuade the manager to act in breach of his existing contract. OTo look at it from another perspective the person to ask might be someone like Chris Wilder.

But that's what happens all the time in football. Clubs rarely wait until contracts have expired before approaching free agent managers. Instead, clubs higher up the foodchain simply negotiate with the club losing its manager, and pay compensation.  To a club like West Ham, the money paid would be tiny in relation to that club's budget. Normal rules (economics, fulflling contracts, even morality itself) anyway don't apply in football. It's the Law of the Jungle where the big beasts prey upon the little ones in order to maintain their position in the food chain and the little ones hope to grow larger and if possible out of sight until they can become big.

Most don't make if for more than a season or maybe 2-3. Manchester United, Liverpool, Arsenal, Spurs etc have been big for decades. Brighton, Aston Villa, Newcastle are currently big but have been up and down in that time. Portsmouth, Bolton, Sheffield Wednesday, Stoke City etc have been big but are currently small.  Hartlepool, Northampton Town, Cambridge United etc have always been minnows and if they find a food source (or players) that might look look as though they'd flourish in a bigger aquarium, they are soon hoovered up by bigger clubs, so the minnows remain small.


   
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