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Wilder times ahead ...
 

Wilder times ahead for Boro as Warnock makes tame exit

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Ken Smith
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Perhaps Yorkshire CCC can make a new start with the appointment of Lord Kamlesh Patel as chairman who was born in Kenya but brought up in Bradford since he was one year old. He wants to speak to every Yorkshire cricketer to set out guidelines for the future and has made a start with a 6 hour meeting with former player Azeem Rafiq.


   
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Ken Smith
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I know that this won’t go down too well with Boro fans, but I hope that Eddie Howe keeps Newcastle in the Premier League if only for the fact that if he doesn’t it will make Boro’s chances all the harder next season if we don’t get promotion this season.

He is very meticulous but found life difficult at Burnley away from his South coast comfort zone.


   
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jarkko
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@ken Only IF we do not get promoted this season.

Of course we will. A win at Wembley in May. Surely 😅.

Up the Boro!


   
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I didn't comment earlier because I decided to let the dust of Mr Warnock's departure and Mr Wilder's arrival settle a little. As some have commented on the last two days of his tenure it was a poorly kept secret that wasn't brilliantly handled by whoever but it seems to be the way that a lot of clubs work, be there a power struggle or not between a couple of individuals.

All I can say about Mr Warnock is he saved us from the worst effects and fallout of what could have happened with the tailspin that 'Operation Woodgate' had rapidly turned into. Relegation? Football nous and all the other things that were needed to stabilise the playing side of the club he brought in and amazingly he did give the fans some hope for the next season although having a manager who was short term would never be a happy situation and no doubt some high pay grade personnel started pushing for change. Mr Warnock is football pragmatist, what you see is what you get. I didn't like the constant vilifying of the officials and the moaning about transfer targets being missed or lost but the majority of the players seemed to love him.

The big worry about his legacy is that Boro and Rockliffe seem to be a huge injury magnet, hopefully the 'state of the art' medical facilities will kick-in, sorry wrong phrase, begin to have an effect on the constant percentage of injuries that never seem to improve leaving Boro with a constant stream of unusable assets costing serious money.

Mr Wilder, he's got my support and I don't envy him his task. I'm looking forward to seeing how he is going to drive Boro onwards and if he is going to convince some of our loanees to return to the fold.

Meanwhile just enjoy your retirement Mr Warnock and I hope you enjoy your family and some meditative fishing expeditions.

Interesting times await Boro again.

UTB,

John


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Seconded, JohnR.


   
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Ken Smith
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Interesting perspective in the Gazette how Chris Wilder sets his teams up. One thing missing under Neil Warnock was the approach to attacking from dead ball situations especially corners. West Ham were brilliant at this against Liverpool on Sunday, so maybe Chris has taken note of this as accurate inswinging corners can be deadly with the right players.


jarkko
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Anthony Vickers is looking for info about Kings Head Hotel.

He wrote in Twitter:

Do any elderly residents/historians of Middlesbrough know where the Kings Head Hotel was? In the 1880s/90s. Was it over the border?

If anyone answers here, I will forward the info to AV.

I think it was along Linthorphe: https://www.mytownmyfuture.co.uk/linthorpe-roadkings-head-hotel/

Up the Boro!

This post was modified 2 years ago 2 times by jarkko

   
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@kenst

I am glad that he has gone, sorry about that, any young player who showed any glimpse of talent was sure of a place on the sidelines. It has largely been win one lose two, no turn unstoned.

N


   
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@john-richardson

Thanks John. I've been trying to think of what to post but you seem to have covered everything I would have said.


   
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Site Creator
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We're now starting to hear how Chris Wilder plans to change Boro's style of play and perhaps one interesting point that emerged below...

"...technically good footballers that can play and dominate the ball and can dominate possession and will create chances to hopefully win games of football"

This is a welcome change for me as under Warnock Boro's possession stats were quite low - just 28% in his last game and often not much higher than 40%. If you added to that the poor pass completion stats (again just 44% in the West Brom game) it does make the task of actually creating chances more difficult. Of course, better passing stats go hand in in hand with better possession stats.

It also sounds like Wilder will be planning on utilising and finding better technical players to play his style of football and he also highlighted that he also wants to address the unbalanced nature of the squad...

"I think the squad is a little bit unbalanced which we’ll try and balance up a little bit and try and construct a squad that’s got competition, that’s got the characteristics that I want. Physically and mentally."

As to how Boro achieve this goal is the unknown but there were some hints that Wilder may be looking at the loan market in January - particularly with up and coming players in the PL...

"We’ve had great relationships with the top guns so we’ll be an attractive proposition for the best young talent to come and play in the Championship, and from other different areas that we can go and get players from."

In addition, it was reported on Sunday that he'd watched Djed Spence playing on loan for Forest and it has since been confirmed there is a release clause to recall him in January. It's also been muted that Hayden Coulson may also be recalled but since he's not had the same success as Spence on loan it's possible other options may be looked at.

Nevertheless, Wilder still has at least 8 games before he can bring anyone in and that means getting results with what he's currently got - perhaps a few academy players could get a chance but it's unlikely to be anything but a tactical shift in the short term. Although, with quite a few players away on international duty it may be harder to achieve anything too radical.

Cleansing the players minds of nearly 18 months of Warnock's man-marking-stop-the-opposition philosophy will probably need a club hypnotist to eradicate quickly. Old habits die hard - especially with those players who have previously played under Warnock. I suspect it's going to be a gradual process of out with the old in with the new as Wilder will be keen to get results and stay in touch with the top six.


jarkko
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@werdermouth A very good summary, Webmaster 😀.

As Ken said, the more I hear about Chris Wilder,  the more I think the choice was correct. Also the timing was right with January transfer window looming. He will get to know the team before action is going to happen in January. 

I think someone said on twitter that he has never been so excited about a new manager since Robson started. I wouldn't say that, but this seems the best we have had since Mogga's appointment 😇.

Up the Boro!

This post was modified 2 years ago by jarkko

   
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@jarkko

It does sound like a change in philosophy away from Warnock, Pulis and indeed Karanka - where the emphasis was more about playing without the ball and stopping the opposition. OK, Woodgate was apparently going to introduce a more attacking style of football but the less said about that the better and as for Monk - well I don't think anyone (including himself) discovered what style of football he was meant to be playing.

It does feel like a fresh start as most of the previous appointments in recent years were made to clear up the previous manager's mess - the fact that Neil Warnock was applauded by the travelling Boro supporters at the end of the West Brom game is somewhat unusual for a manager departing in mid season. More a sign of gratitude as he passes on the baton after the completion of a steady leg that give the next runner a decent chance of a medal.

Of course, everyone can feel some degree of optimism before the team of a new man with decent track record has kicked a ball in anger. Let's hope that continues for the rest of the season at least!


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There's certainly a very good game being talked by Chris Wilder and I like everything I've heard so far which feels a lot more like longer-term thinking than we've had of late, or I presumed when his appointment was announced.

The one downside as Werder alludes to is that the appointment now doesn't feel close to continuity and could take a fair bit of time to come together. Personally, I'm ok with that if there's encouragement that we're headed in the right direction and the football is decent to watch.


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Wilder is certainly talking the talk but most of new managers have been able to do that. His track record indicates that he ought to be able to walk the walk. Still, in December 2020 most would have part their money on Warnock getting us to the playoffs. So I am cautiously optimistic.

It is yet another 180 degree from Monk (buy all the players and hope it works out) to Pulis (I hate football, I hate footballers, you all suck), Woodgate (we'll be Liverpool on Tees), Warnock (Shithouse our way to the top; I have a barbeque), Wilder (we will crush all opposition though fitness and technical excellence).

Here's hoping that we have the plan and the people to actually carry this through and we aren't doing this all again in 18 months. As I say, cautiously optimistic.


   
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Pedro de Espana
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@werdermouth   Good post Werder.

Of course one the difficulties around what you have said or paraphrased is that usually dominating the ball and passing better is linked to better players than we have at the moment

In theory Payero and possibly Siliki could be two of those better players, but the other midfield players are very limited. Likewise our crossing of the ball and play into Sporara have been generally poor.

Eight games to hang onto the coat-tails of those above us, will probably mean pragmatic football with hopefully CW initially improving the overall achievement out on the pitch. Then we would still have to integrate any players coming in. in January.

He has a tough job in hand, let’s hope the fans realise this and cut him some slack.

One interesting item will be where CW sees McNair playing, when we get a few injured players back. That’s if we can get them back and keep them fit. I am starting to have grave doubts over Dijksteel and even Bola. Also the almost forgotten man, Fry??


   
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@pedro

You're right to mention better players Pedro but I'm not sure it's all about individual ability per se.

Any professional footballer (and, frankly, most amateurs) can pass a ball 10-15 yards to a teammate - it doesn't take a unique ability to do that. It seems to me that what's required to do it consistently well - and the thing we've so often lacked - is the right movement at the right time by teammates to get themselves into a position to receive the ball and make that pass as simple as it ought to be.

That's where tactics and training can dovetail with ability to make an effective, possession-based team. We don't need players with the ability to ping it 50 yards to feet, we just need to focus as much on off-the-ball movement when in possession as we seem to have done when out of possession.

I'm with deleriad re cautious optimism but I like that Wilder seems focussed on ways to attack AND defend.

The more I read, the more I think it's going to take time but also the more I think Wilder's onto something. It will need a strong new-manager bounce to make anything substantial of this season whilst changing tactics and personnel (again) but there may be hope yet, at least for the second half of next season.


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Posted by: @andy-r

I like that Wilder seems focussed on ways to attack AND defend.

I actually feel that for a long time we have lacked the ability to attack as a team. In his first full season, AK added good defensive organisation to Mowbray's good attacking organisation but fell slightly short. After Norwich he went into his shell and we forgot how to attack as a unit. Particularly in the Premier league we just imploded as an attacking force and we have never recovered from that. Each manager since then has failed in this area.

When you have had that many years of failing to do something, the failure becomes institutionalised so I don't envy Wilder trying to sort it out. On the plus side, many of the players from the last few years have gone so at least he has a partially blank slate to work with.


   
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Ken Smith
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One  quote I liked from Chris Wilder was “We must all look in the mirror than outside the window”. I get the feeling also from Andy Campbell’s thoughts that Wilder will make young players better, but at the same time won’t suffer fools gladly. DLooking at the photos of the players training yesterday there were plenty of smiles albeit from only 15 or so players available. Wilder seems strong on work ethic from his players, his staff and himself. Approaching his mid-50s now I feel that he will be at Boro for the long haul, but fans will need to be patient. As the saying goes ‘Rome wasn’t built in a day’ although Boro still have the makings of a good team though unbalanced at the moment. His press conferences could become as entertaining as Warnock’s but the main question is could  promotion happen this season? Perhaps, but realistically it might take 2 or 3 years. Nevertheless in my opinion Wilder seems to be the manager to deliver it.

This post was modified 2 years ago by Ken Smith

   
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@jarkko: I might do a deal.  If it could be guaranteed Boro would get to the Wembley play-off final, I could guarantee not to go to Wembley, but to watch it on TV.  That should deal with the jinx I have brought on Boro when playing at Wembley with me present (the jinx has applied to FA Cup, League Cup and play-off finals).  Of course if the game were switched to Cardiff (100% record there).


   
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@forever-dormo

Ditto ditto ditto !

I was working In Argentina at the time for the three finals at Wembley and it cost me a fortune to fly home as it wasn’t part of my leave cycle. I used to fly in from Buenos Aires and stay at Heathrow and my wife would fly down from Teesside. 

Never dreamt that we would get to so many finals!

We did celebrate Cardiff though.

The playoff final we went on a corporate package and no one spoke in the bus on the way home !

OFB


   
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I’ve seen three Wembley defeats and couldn’t go to Cardiff! Grrr….


   
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jarkko
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@forever-dormo Perhaps none of the Boro fans should go to Wembley if Boro play. But can see your logic 😉.

Up the Boro!

This post was modified 2 years ago by jarkko

   
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jarkko
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I think a lot of us here in Diasboro have been thinking the same what Wilder said in his recent news conference.

Wilder said: “I think that’s why Steve has employed Kieran Scott, to put a structure in place when maybe in the past that wasn’t in place.

“Without that structure you can go from one style to another and then another again and as we all know that leads to a big turnover of players.

“So hopefully we can put a structure in and way of playing, and an attitude of playing that people enjoy and has a bit of longevity to it.”

What will be the way of playing? That will be interesting to see after the January window. Before that we are a bit lobsided to see the end result yet.

Interesting times ahead. Up the Boro! 

 

This post was modified 2 years ago by jarkko

   
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According to a lot of media sources West Ham are going to make a serious bid for Dael Fry in the January window, the transfermarket site values Fry at £6.3m but some reports he is £10m rated.

What are the views on diasboro, should we sell or retain, if sell what is the lowest price we should let him go for ? My opinion is to retain unless we are talking £20m +.

Come on BORO.


   
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I saw a news report that dale Fry is being touted as a target for West Ham and he is a bargain at a value of £6.3million. Please don't sell him cheap Boro even if he only has a year and a half to go on his contract, I'd like to think that he'd far rather be part of a developing and changing Boro but as we know money talks louder.

More food for thought,

UTB,

John

 


   
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@exmil. Without doubt he is a top centre back but I wonder what impact his recent injury problems have had on his valuation.

In an ideal world I would like to keep him but money always talks and I suspect anything north of £10M+ would have to be considered; that being said before the club considered any offers they need to have a ready to go replacement available who is of a similar standard preferably.  

This season, more than any, has shown how inconsistent we are without a solid and reliable back line.  We used to have the best defence in the league, the problems used to be in the middle and upfront but we now have issues throughout the team.  

Get the back line and spine of the team sorted and we will be more consistent and hopefully a credible threat. 😎


   
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Crikey - let the new manager get his feet under the table, and see the players he's got and how they measure up to the club's needs, before we start touting players to other clubs!  And bearing in mind West Ham's current league position and considerable improvement of late under David Moyes, either £10M or £6.3M would be an absolute snip for a player anywhere near good enough for the Hammers' squad. 


   
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In terms of putting a value on Dael Fry, perhaps it will be hard to see him being touted at over £20m given he's not had any PL experience and the historic fees that have been paid for Championship defenders.

Here's the top 10 Championship defender transfers in recent years

1.  Nathan Ake - £39m (Bournemouth to Man City)
2.  Ben Godfrey - £23m (Norwich to Everton)
3.  Adam Webster - £18m (Bristol City to Brighton)
4.  Ben Gibson - £15m (Boro to Burnley)
5.  Alfie Mawson - £15m (Swansea to Fulham)
6.  Lloyd Kelly - £12.5m (Bristol City to Bournemouth)
7.  Nathan Collins - £12m (Stoke to Burnley)
8.  Harry Maguire - £12m (Hull to Leicester)
9.  Chris Mepham - £12m (Brentford to Bournemouth)
10. Joe Rodon - £10m (Swansea to Spurs)

The top two were players who left from newly relegated clubs and had PL experience as did Ben Gibson. I think Boro would do well to get £15m for Fry given he'll be entering the last year of his contract next season.

If they wait until the summer to cash in (and they probably must if they don't get promoted) then likely £10-12m would be the region of fee unless there was a bidding war or one of the top clubs made a bid. However, a spate of recent injuries may well push the price down or see add-ons to the deal based on appearances.

Though Boro should probably resist offers in January unless they do creep towards £20m - still, another injury this season may well see his value fall further so perhaps the club may entertain a sale in January.

This post was modified 2 years ago by werdermouth

Powmill-Naemore
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Good time now to agree a 2 year extension on Fry's contract to make surexwe can negotiate the highest bid if it co.es to that.


   
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@powmillnaemore

It may be harder for Fry to agree a contract extension if he knows PL clubs are interested - especially given Boro can't offer him even remotely similar wages. Also, he'll be almost 26 when his current deal expires and will no doubt be keen on advancing his career - note Ben Gibson was 25 when he moved to Burnley.

Though he'd be mad to turn down a move to West Ham if they're serious given they're looking like a top eight Premier League side - even the most optimistic would accept Boro are a long way off reaching that level in the next two seasons.

The economics of being in the Championship mean you can't afford to lose players with a market value for nothing when their contracts end - plus you can't afford to pay them PL wages either.


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