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Wilder times ahead ...
 

Wilder times ahead for Boro as Warnock makes tame exit

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Well just got back from an evening out to find that CW is    allegedly the new manager!

Can’t say that I am over the moon as I thought that the club was beginning to recognise the need to move in a new direction having previously appointed a DoF but we now look to be appointing a manager of the NW/TP type.

If CW is so good then why has he been out of a job so long since SU dispensed with his services.

I find it hard to believe, as the EG asserts, that he agreed to come to the club despite having numerous offers from elsewhere. It sounds more like a knee jerk reaction appointment to me.

I had hoped for someone younger and perhaps with a wider experience than just the English game but it is what it is and we will have to see what develops; at least he may get us more organised and produce a team with a clearer identity than the box of chocolates we currently are. CoB 😎

This post was modified 2 years ago by K P in Spain

Pedro de Espana
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Well it appears that the rumour I posted after the Birmingham match is going to turn out true.

It also appears that in football circles, it was the worst kept secret for sometime.

It will be an appointment that divides opinion, as already seen on here. Well only time will tell. Could it be worse, hopefully it will be better.


   
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jarkko
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Well, he is younger than Warnock!  Very nearly 20 years but still very experienced.

Here is a summary of Chris Wilder by the Echo: https://www.thenorthernecho.co.uk/sport/19700087.man-always-defied-odds---brief-history-chris-wilder/

At least the near future will be interesting. Up the Boro! 


   
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I must admit to also feeling underwhelmed by the impending Chris Wilder appointment.

Wilder’s record is pretty good I would say with plenty of promotions on his CV - but there again, so was Warnock’s - and his Sheffield Utd side played some good stuff in that first Premier League season. Tactically he stood out for his overlapping centre-backs and he’ll no doubt take a liking to Paddy McNair on that front.

Wilder understands the league and you’d think that inheriting a Neil Warnock squad won’t be too unfamiliar for him so it’s a sensible move overall I think, especially with Warnock having a very limited shelf-life and Wilder being willing and available now.

The club have lurched from one extreme to the other in recent appointments but this feels closer to continuity.

But it doesn’t excite. It doesn’t evoke a feeling of a brave new direction, of innovation or of stealing a march to potentially the next big thing.

It feels like a Championship appointment of a Championship manager by a Championship club.

In summary, the head says this is a solid move, the heart says it’s just more of the same.

Either way, he’s got a decent squad to work with and has done it before. There’s no reason why he can’t be a success and the next few months are more interesting for having him in charge. Good luck to him.

This post was modified 2 years ago by Andy R

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Well I'm in the camp of being glad NW has gone, I must admit I'm a bit meh about CW if he is the new manager, I'm not sure how he will fit in with the director of football given he is more in the traditional mold of manager. One thing is for sure there will be some who like him and others who dont, but if we start winning games and stop conceding goals then it may be ok. Let's face it that's what karanka did and some of the fans didnt like him as manager and he has been our most successful manager recently.

Not sure that SG would go for a young foreign manager again Farke from Norwich may have got the job if he had been sacked earlier given his links to our director of football at the end of the day maybe we have  to be realistic look at the mags up the road all the money in the world and they are having problems attracting a manager given reports that talks with EH have broken down.

At the end of the day we are fans and there will always be some of us unhappy, but as I have said before how many of us would waste our fortune keeping a middle sized provincial football club afloat and SG has.

In the words of maximus "are you not entertained"..............


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Ken Smith
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I think it’s unrealistic to think that a young manager can steer Boro to promotion and keep them up for more than one season. We’ve tried Garry Monk and Jonathan Woodgate as young managers with abject failure, so apart from engaging a foreign manager and the expense involved, Chris Wilder seems to me to be the sensible choice. On the evidence of yesterday’s matches Bournemouth and Fulham seem certainties for automatic promotion but both clubs will struggle to avoid relegation next season. Nevertheless Boro are as good as (or as poor as) most of the rest of this division, so have every chance of reaching the playoffs and even gaining promotion, but don’t expect them to survive in the top flight for more than two seasons. It’s the same in every division now with a succession of yo-yo clubs.

I keep hearing remarks of getting back to where we belong, but other clubs such as Portsmouth, Sheffield Wednesday and Sunderland probably think the same way, but past glories don’t account for anything in this money- motivated world. I enjoyed the seasons in the old Second Division at Ayresome Park, but the Robson/McLaren era in the past will never be repeated, and some fans weren’t happy with McLaren in the season of their European successes, but the signing of so many World stars wasn’t and couldn’t be sustainable. 

Steve Gibson has been the greatest benefactor to Middlesbrough FC and Teesside, but he is now unfortunately small fry in the world of football. That is not made as a criticism, but as a fact. So now it boils down to whether fans enjoy a winning side playing attractive football in the Championship or whipping boys with the occasional good performance in the Premier League as I don’t think we can have both. It’s a difficult choice which I won’t be around to make. 

lncidentally I almost got yesterday’s repetition of the 1-0 win at the Hawthorns on the same date in 1990, although history of repeating itself rarely happens in football.  Nevertheless I’ll still look out for any more strange coincidences in the future.


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When we think of new managers who might be/might have been appointed, we should bear in mind:

1. We are not fishing in the pool where Klopp, Guardiola etc swim.

2. MFC has been in the Championship for a few years now, and its finances reflect that.

3. Therefore we can't afford to "buy out" a manager who is successfully ensconced at another maybe "big" club, where it would cost compensation to the other club (and these days that tends to mean not only for the manager's contract but also the contracts of his support team of assistant manager, various coaches etc) as well as improving the terms already being paid to that successfully ensconced manager in order to get him to jump ship (and improve the terms of his support staff).  And he'd no doubt want to buy SOME players - so an expensive business all round, even for clubs with a limited budget.

4. WE are therefore likely to be looking at managers who are out of work or very new guys with their freshly-minted coaching badges, on whom Steve Gibson might want to take a gamble. We can't expect to land a big fish but a sardine. Maybe after the UEFA Cup Final, when McLaren left, we could have hoped for a stellar manager, but that was then and we are now in a different universe. 

5. But sardines can be very tasty and very nourishing, so let's hope it works out....

6. Whoever is finally paraded in front of the Press, we support the Boro so we will be behind him (in other words, we will give him a chance to "do a job", not get on his back for his perceived style of football in the past or whatever).  He starts with a clean sheet and it's up to him what he does from there.

7.  Let's hope it's an exciting ride....


Ken Smith
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When I wrote on Friday that Neil Warnock might introduce a new formation of 6-2-2 I was being facetious. However according to West Brom manager Varien Ismael that is exactly what Warnock did.


   
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@forever-dormo

Great post the only thing that bothers me is that Steve Gibson has bigger fish to fry in other oceans!

OFB


   
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@original-fat-bob

I think the Sheffield Star article does shed some light on why Chris Wilder struggled in his second season - the boardroom problems and failure to back him in the transfer market along with injuries made it hard to repeat the first season in the PL. We know that getting off to bad start tends to be terminal in the PL - though I think blaming covid and having empty stadiums is not particularly valid as all teams had to contend with that handicap.


   
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Ken Smith
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@original-fat-bob

Also what happens to Leo, will he be kept at the club as an interpreter?


   
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@ken

Good post Ken and yes I think in the context of Boro no longer having parachute payments and Steve Gibson no longer being among even the top thirty wealthiest owners, it's probably a limited number of managers who would fancy the job. You're also right to point out the Championship lacks overall quality outside the top two and any kind of decent form would be enough to make the top six.


   
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According to Boro fan TV. As NW was boarding the bus back home he told fans he didn't want to leave and he only found out at 10am. A fan mentioned Neil Bausor and warnock said angrily don't mention that name to me!


   
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Ken Smith
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I agree with Forever Dormo. My thoughts exactly but put much more succinctly than mine.


   
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@forever-dormo

The appointment of Chris Wilder does at least stop the trend of lurching from an inexperienced manager to an experienced one. Has Steve Gibson decided experience is better than a gamble on the unknown? At least Chris Wilder has one thing in common with Jurgen Klopp - he's the same age!


   
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@malcolm

If Neil Bausor was the person blocking signing players for a manager who wasn't going to be around for much longer then perhaps he was the sensible head versus Steve Gibson's romantic one in giving Neil Warnock  farewell season. Bausor has only just finished dealing with the whole financial fallout from Garry Monk's spending spree as those players saw out their contracts - can't blame him for vetoing more players who he would have to try and shift in a few months.


Ken Smith
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There are bound to be rumours about Warnock’s dismissal??? or otherwise, but as Ex-Mil writes, let’s give Chris Wilding our support.

The King is dead, long live the King relatively speaking. Though who is the King - Gibson or Bausor as I doubt it will be Chris Wilder, but still would have been my choice as Boro’s new manager.


   
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I guess the one issue with appointing Wilder or anyone known to fans here is that there will be some in the fanbase who are immediately Wilder out. Others had also constructed a fantasy in their head of an unknown German coach who would come and lead us to the promised land. Certainly if he was called Christoph Wildsmann everyone would singing the hallelujahs. 

Still, you can't argue with Wilder's track record and if people are concerned about whether he could keep us in the Premier league for more than 2 seasons then I'll worry about that nearer the time. 

Looking on transfermarkt, had managed with 4 at the back until the first few games of 2016 with Sheff Utd when he switched to 3 at the back and hasn't changed since then.

If he does stick with 3 at the back then we have obvious holes but also potential. His main innovation was to have attacking, ball-playing right and left-sided centre backs. His teams don't generally press very high and focus on blocking off spaces. 

What we lack is a

right wing back: Howson, Jones and Dijksteel can fill in but of course our main option is playing for Forest. McNair can play there in theory but is probably needed elsewhere

left wing back: We have Bola but no cover which means we need Tav or Jones as stop gaps or else Kokolo gets a chance. Sadly Coulson looks like he's not going to make it at Ipswich so if Bola can't stay injury-free we may need to buy a replacement in January.

left centre back: we don't have a good, ball-playing defender in this position. McNair can do it at a pinch but he would be the obvious choice for RCB. Peltier has occasionally played further forward and may be a stop-gap until the end of the season.

Where we look ok is:

Right centre back: McNair can be weak defensively but is already playing this role under Warnock. Dijksteel and Wood could also both do it.

Centre back. Bamba, Fry and Hall

Midfield 3: Crooks, Payero, Tav and Lea Siliki seem fine (albeit Lea Siliki hasn't shown much yet) but there's no real depth. Possibly Malley could be an option.

Front 2: perm 2 from Sporar, Watmore, Ikpeazu and Coburn.

It is hard to fit Jones and Hernandez in this formation. If Wilder sticks with 3 at the back then Jones is going to need to retrain as a wing-back. Browne doesn't obviously fit anywhere.

Overall, there's still the same issue that there isn't one formation that fits all our best players. Assuming we don't get promoted it feels like we may have yet another summer of churn with all of the following leaving: Bamba, Hall, Peltier, Hernandez, Browne, Coulson, Wing, (maybe Spence if he decides he doesn't want to come back). Also a risk of losing some from Jones, Fry and Tav plus obviously the other loanees going back. In the worst case scenario we could be looking at replacing another 10 players again.

 


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@deleriad

Steve Gibson has only ever appointed one foreign manager in Karanka and everyone else since then has been English (Agnew, Monk, Pulis, Woodgate, Warnock and now Wilder). So expecting a German coach was probably not on die Karten.

Either way, any manager coming in was going to face the same problems as you've alluded to - basically Boro have an imbalanced squad especially in the full-back/wing-back positions with perhaps too many similar attacking players and lack a proven goal scorer. Maybe Coburn could step up and continue his improvement but Ikpeazu appears injury prone and Sporar is possibly not a centre-forward.

There's work to be done for Chris Wilder and I'm looking forward to seeing how he sets up with the current squad - I suspect there'll be some more square-pegging given the options and injuries.

This post was modified 2 years ago by werdermouth

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If Wilder wants to play in the same way that he did with Sheff U then I agree that the squad needs work in the wingback areas. The other key missing ingredient is that creative forward who drops off and knits things together. McGoldrick was terrific at that for him but we don’t have a player like that.

I think he’d be better working with what’s got for now, which is a back four and wingers.

Howson has now surpassed Djiksteel for me as the best/most consistent right back at the club. Bola is nailed on for left back but Peltier is an able and dependable deputy. There a choice to be made at centre back when everyone is fit but Bamba and Fry would seem the most natural.

Crooks and Payero have a partnership going  and Jones and Tavernier are likely the best options on the wings.

I think Sporar is a pretty automatic choice up front but who partners him is up for grabs.

Harsh on McNair but that’s how I see it as a whole. If you’re choosing your best XI players then Paddy doubtless gets in but you have to pick a balanced team with mini-partnerships and I think he would miss out.

If playing a back three then he’s nailed on to play.

This post was modified 2 years ago 2 times by Andy R

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Posted by: @werdermouth

@deleriad

Steve Gibson has only ever appointed one foreign manager in Karanka and everyone else since then has been English (Agnew, Monk, Pulis, Woodgate, Warnock and now Wilder).[...]

Except Pulis is a Welshman!  😉

 


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@stircrazy

I can't remember Pulis ever mentioning that he was Welsh - who could have known...


   
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Chris Wilder has given his first interview after being appointed manager...

Here is the video link on the club website

And here is the transcript of the video in the Gazette


   
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@werdermouth

He was born in Newport.  I remember all the fuss at the time of Boro's ill-fated 4th round FA cup replay there a couple of years ago.


   
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@werdermouth

He was born in Newport.  I remember all the fuss at the time of Boro's ill-fated 4th round FA cup replay there a couple of years ago.

Sorry, I know, I was just joking after calling him English as he never missed an opportunity to talk about his Welsh roots 😀 


   
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@werdermouth: I see the sense in that argument.  To give a warchest to a manager who, with the best will in the world, is 72 years old and therefore "interim" until the end of the season or, at very best, a short time after that, would be to put all the eggs in one basket.  And if the new manager who then comes along doesn't "fancy" the players signed in the lame duck months..... there'd be precious little money for the new chap to use.

 

Of course it doesn't stop us having some sympathy for Neil Warnock, but finance people SHOULD be thinking with their heads (wallets) rather than their hearts.


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@werdermouth: Pulis was born near Newport (Mon), and he played for the team.  In fact my own father was born nearby there, too - though that was over a century ago.  If I remember correctly, didn't Pulis manage Boro when we went to Newport County and we were dumped out of the Cup there (live on TV?). Pulis definitely had a bit of a Welsh twang to the accent.  (But what would I know?  My maternal grandmother lived with us for some years.  I thought she had no accent at all.  But when for the first time at University I phoned home - the phone having been recently installed - she answered the phone and it was the first time I realised she had a Welsh accent.  By then I was probably 20 years old).


   
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Ck


With all the talk of age, formation, style, we seem to be forgetting the total la

 


   
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