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Preston v Boro

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Stircrazy
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Posted by: @k-p-in-spain

Yellow cards now up to 6 + 1 red.

I do believe that Crooks failed to break the habit of a football lifeltime & was one those six.  Will he ever learn?


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Malcolm
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Here are the players ratings from the Gazette.

Luke Daniels - 7

Only player who can really emerge with any credit. Despite conceding four his saves stopped it being more.

Anfernee Dijksteel - 4

Really struggled throughout defensively. Poor marking for the first and some nervous moments on the ball too. Did set-up Boro's goal though.

Dael Fry - 5

Another who struggled with Preston's lively attack. Maybe unfortunate with the own goal, but was unconvincing throughout.

 

Paddy McNair - 4

Part of a really poor defensive performance, threatened to lose his discipline in the first half and then was sent off for handball in the second half.

Isaiah Jones - 4

Didn't add much of an attacking threat and was then partly culpable for two goals.

Jonny Howson - 5

Good in possession, but he struggled defensively as Riis gave him the runaround.

Matt Crooks - 4

Didn't get into the game at all. Booked too.

Riley McGree - 4

Like Crooks, just anonymous on this occasion.

Marcus Tavernier - 5

Scored Boro's goal but couldn't offer anything in attack and couldn't help out defensively.

Andraz Sporar - 4

Lacked service but offered nothing.

Duncan Watmore - 4

Similar to Sporar though he was unlucky with one second half looped header.

Substitutes

Josh Coburn (For Sporar, 61') - 5 - Couldn't get into a game that was already gone.

Folarin Balogun (For Watmore, 61') - 5 - Wasted two good opportunities.

Aaron Connolly (For Dijksteel, 66') - 5 - See Coburn.


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Andy R
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Topic starter  

Squib, damp.

Boro started with with tempo and intensity but it lasted no more than ten minutes before Preston worked us out, then outworked us.

4-1 and it could - should - have been more as Boro’s heads went the longer the game went on.

Dodgy at the back and with zero presence up front, Boro got what they deserved. They didn’t deserve the amazing support they got from the stands.

Clear work to do in the summer - at least two quality strikers, a reliable keeper and at least one defender needed including a left-footer. Reintegrating Uche mightn’t be the worst idea.

Its been an engaging season overall and much more fun than it looked it would be back in August, September and October. A disappointing finish but something to build on for the first summer in a while.


Plato
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The one person who has an enormous question mark over his head is the manager. Putting out the wrong team, with the wrong tactics, knowing we were not in the game, but still 0-0 he sat there until we were out of it, then brought on subs who were used in exactly the same way/ formation. We have never put a High ball into the box that I can remember, have we scored a headed goal? Fry, obviously unfit, we should have used our veteran centre back in an important match when small things matter, he is a very good coach on the field, and uses his authority well. This was a complete no show and should be investigated by the club, as a matter of urgency     


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deleriad
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Well it was a step too far. When the chips were down, we folded. That said, we ended the season roughly where we deserved to be and even if we had have won, it wouldn't have mattered.

Like many, I thought we would kick on in January but, as has so often been the case, the recruitment in January sent us backwards. Hindsight is a wonderful thing but looking back, with the exception of McGree, the January window was a complete failure.

Looking further back, our season seems to have been doomed by the terrible pre-season recruitment with the civil war in the club undermining Warnock in the first instance then providing an incoherent squad for Wilder thereafter.

In the summer, we bought Lumley, Crooks, Ameobi, Payero, Lea Siliki, Sporar, Hernandez, and (possibly) Ikpeazu in for the first team and only Crooks has been a success. That is a real indictment and, given that this was a mix of Warnock and non-Warnock signings, you can't lay the blame solely at Warnock's door. On the back of that, Scott, Wilder and the recruitment team have a lot to do to convince me that they can be trusted with the keys to Gibson's wallet and the infinite riches promised from selling Spence. 

If we can hang onto what looks like the core of our team: Dijksteel, Fry, McNair, Jones, Crooks, Howson, McGree and Tav then the future does look bright for next season. Hopefully, the failings from this season will teach us as much as the successes did. 

The season feels like more of a downer than perhaps it ought to. It started and ended badly but there was a lengthy golden spell and some fantastic performances that put down a marker for what might come. So after a few whiskies in a few weeks time, I'm sure the foam hands will be starting to regrow for next season.


Pedro de Espana
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Talking of new players and Goalkeepers in particular. Boro will now have back at Rockcliffe, FIVE. 

Daniels, Lumley, Sol Brynn, Zach Hemming and Stojanovic. Somebody may know when their contracts are up, but I think none are in the summer. And we all believe we need another one. 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣


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Philip of Huddersfield
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Well, another season over.

From all accounts Boro were shocking today  but it didn’t matter because Sheffield and Luton got the results they needed.

And did anyone dream that Boro could win the playoffs ?? Surely not.

Reflecting on the season makes me think there is hope that Boro can do better next season providing that 4 or possibly 5 new players are recruited WHO ARE FIRST TEAM REGULARS and not just squad players.

 If the recruitment team could achieve this it would be remarkable but I think that in reality Boro are at least 2, if not 3, transfer windows away from a team capable of challenging for promotion.

But all that’s for the future, so let’s all enjoy the summer free from the stresses and strains of supporting the Boro - until it all starts again in a few months !!

Philip of Huddersfield 


Pedro de Espana
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Good post deleriad.

f we can hang onto what looks like the core of our team: Dijksteel, Fry, McNair, Jones, Crooks, Howson, McGree and Tav then the future does look bright for next season.

Without being pedantic do you really believe that a back three of Dijksteel, Fry, McNair and AN Other will be good enough for a top six placing.

Do you really believe that Howson, Crooks, Tav and McGree will be good enough to achieve the same. 
Apologies, but I do not.

Then we have the hard bit. Finding two “Strikers” that can hold the ball up, have some pace and composure on the ball. 
There are a number of so called lesser teams with at least one and with good goal scoring figures. Not sure where they got them from, but they certainly will not have been expensive.

There are also teams who have picked up far better Loan Players from the EPL clubs. Connolly who has in reality failed, even allowing for poor midfield service, was a CW pick going back to his Sheff U days. 

The Recruitment side of the club has continually failed miserably and this season Mr Gibson has to take quite a lot of the blame over his handling of the summer debacle.

Am I confident we can recruit the right players if Mr Gibson sanctions major spending. Well for one, I am not at all.


exmil
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I think it will take more than one season/transfer windows to build a team capable of competing for promotion, considering the lack of funds we will have. If we get £20m for Spence (big IF) it will not fund the amount of players we need, so we may have to sell others, I don’t think Jones is as good as people think, yes he had a couple of good matches but has not been the same player since illness and defenders take care of him very easily. Even with the income from the cup run, MFC will not have the funds for many of the type of players we will need, goalkeeper, left sided CD, play maker (No 10), strikers who can score (need 2-4) and a strong leader. In my opinion that will take at least another two seasons of transfer windows, I believe Wilder is here for 3-5 years and providing fans stay patient with time needed to build a strong group of players, he should be given the time to do it, I do not think changing the manager every couple of seasons (or after every defeat) is the answer.

Come on BORO.


PaulInBoro
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Watched on a stream, my conclusion simply not good enough, PNE looked like the team going for playoffs, do we have a plan B, to beat us all you need to do is sit deep, it's the hope that kills you


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jarkko
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If we had Coburn, Watmore and possibly Balogun on loan again next season, we would still need two new strikers. But it is not impossible to buy two desent ones. Sell Ikpeazu first and buy a couple strikers like Preston had. So not a money problem, but we need buying better.

In middfield we will have Howson, Tavanier, McGree, Crooks and Pajero to start with. With Lea Siliki returning to France, we need another loanee.

In defence we have Bamba (new one-year contact?), Fry, Dijksteel and McNair (who can play in midfield, too). So we two need to central defenders - one left footed. Can we lure Ben Gibson back as a skipper now that he plays again in the Championship? 

And we need two wing-backs. Bola on the left with another young prospect there. Somehow I rather would keep Spence over Jones, but I think we need to sell one of the boys to have money to invest on new arrivals. And cover is needed on the right, too.

And finally we need a new goal keeper. We now have Daniels, Brynn, Stojanovic and Zach Hemming returning from Kilmarnock.  We might need a 1st choice keeper thought. If it is not Stojanovic, we need to buy one. And sell Lumley.

So we need good buying next. So two strikers (+Balogun loan), one midfielder, two centre backs, two wing backs and a goal keeper. So up to eight new players - and I would prefer to have only max four new arrivals per a window. So we have failed massively last summer and in January.

We need to improve only one position in the league next season. But player wise we are much further down building a promotion team. We need consistency now  - both in purchasing as in performances on the field.

Up the Boro!

This post was modified 2 months ago 3 times by jarkko

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deleriad
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Posted by: @pedro

Good post deleriad.

f we can hang onto what looks like the core of our team: Dijksteel, Fry, McNair, Jones, Crooks, Howson, McGree and Tav then the future does look bright for next season.

Without being pedantic do you really believe that a back three of Dijksteel, Fry, McNair and AN Other will be good enough for a top six placing.

Do you really believe that Howson, Crooks, Tav and McGree will be good enough to achieve the same. 
Apologies, but I do not.

Listening to Wilder's interview, I think he has doubts too. 

I think if all our players were at least the standard of the ones I listed, then yes, I do reckon they're good enough for the top 6. 

Looking at Luton, Forest and Huddersfield, I'm not sure their players are, man-for-man, any better than the ones I listed. Odds are, if we had had a better keeper or one decent striker this season, we would be in the play-offs. I think we have a top 6 defence and midfield undercut by league 1 strikers and a non-league keeper. (Daniels has done OK since he came back in but I'm not convinced he's more than a competent league 1 keeper.)

I also think that although Wilder has improved us that several other managers in the league have done a better job than him this season and I would probably rate Wilder B for the season. I think he has to take responsibility for terrible recruitment of strikers in January and not plugging the Lumley hole. I think he has also been poor at how he has handled the strikers and how he has failed to promote players in order to create depth. This season has felt like a fairly marginal improvement; crucially I don't see a trajectory of improvement. He came in, made some immediate positive changes then, after that, we have stood still at best. No one has come through, no one is knocking at the door, no one is un-droppable. If anything, we have drifted slightly backwards since the first improvement.

I reckon all the players I listed (with the possible exception of Howson) would make it into the first team of any top 6 championship team and most of them would make the squad for bottom-6 Premier league teams. However, we have crumbled under pressure more than once this season so you have to question the ability of some of them to handle pressure. Without behind the scenes knowledge, you don't know which ones are improved by weight of expectation and which ones aren't but Wilder's interview seems to imply that an awful lot can't handle it.

 


Martin Bellamy
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Heads up everyone. We came close, but realistically, to finish 7th is just about as good as we could have expected. 
I’m not too inclined to blame the Recruitment team, nor our Chairman - finding a winning team in this league isn’t easy and in Chris Wilder we’ve got a manager who gives us a chance next season, even if it’s a small one. 
We aren’t a fashionable club, we have no automatic right to be in the EPL, and I doubt we’d be the chosen destination for the best players available in the Championship. On the other hand, this is our Club, represents our Town and I’m sure we’ll stick with them through another season. 
I’d like to add another massive thank you to the contributors to this Forum, especially Andy and OFB (who disagrees with me on politics but we can put that aside on here as we both love our team) for their openers and Werdermouth for all the back office work. 
This has been a season full of great comments and insights and I’m looking forward to the next one already. 
Meanwhile, my other club, with 13 players and an egg shaped ball, has just made it to the Final of the Challenge Cup which is being held at Spurs’ ground this year. If we’re free I might just go…


K P in Spain
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Posted by: @exmil

I think it will take more than one season/transfer windows to build a team capable of competing for promotion, considering the lack of funds we will have. If we get £20m for Spence (big IF) it will not fund the amount of players we need, so we may have to sell others, I don’t think Jones is as good as people think, yes he had a couple of good matches but has not been the same player since illness and defenders take care of him very easily. Even with the income from the cup run, MFC will not have the funds for many of the type of players we will need, goalkeeper, left sided CD, play maker (No 10), strikers who can score (need 2-4) and a strong leader. In my opinion that will take at least another two seasons of transfer windows, I believe Wilder is here for 3-5 years and providing fans stay patient with time needed to build a strong group of players, he should be given the time to do it, I do not think changing the manager every couple of seasons (or after every defeat) is the answer.

Come on BORO.

I agree Exmil there is a major rebuild needed to create a squad capable of competing for a top six position and it will not all happen next season.

I am of the view that a number of our so called star players are overrated and I include Jones amongst them.  Like others before him, he has failed to build on his early season promise and contribution and now looks easy to mark out of the game.

We have a lot of players who are nice individuals but what we need are winners and, as you say, a strong leader on the pitch.

How much change can be made will depend upon player sales and I think we will do well to get north of £10M for Spence and others may have to be sold (assuming anyone else wants them) to enable CW to re-jig the squad as I believe he thinks that some are just not up to the standard he requires.

CW will also have to demonstrate that he is not one dimensional and that when teams work us out then we have other options to enable us to respond rather than end up capitulating as we have done more than once this season. 

It will be interesting to see what unfolds in the next few weeks/months. 😎


Malcolm
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Bernie Slaven on his thoughts after the game. Worth the watch if you have time. No holding back with Bernie.

https://www.facebook.com/1143834576/videos/542276577354901/


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werdermouth
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In truth the squad was pretty shallow this season, that's been down to taking too many punts on players who have struggled to find form or even be fit to play. Basically, Chris Wilder has had nothing on the bench to change a game or even drop a player for not performing. Crooks, Watmore and Jones would in ideal circumstances have become impact subs if there had been options to play others instead. The problem is that anyone coming on as sub usually weakens the team and doesn't affect the game in any way.

Just how many of the current first XI can be relied upon to perform consistently next season is the question facing the manager in the summer. One year after signing him, we are still waiting to see if Payero is going to be as important as his price tag suggested. Plus there will be players Boro will want to move on but may struggle to do so - I'm thinking of the likes of Ameobi who will have few suitors for an ageing permacrock.

As for the defence, we know Fry can perform at a high level but has he peaked or is he still got underlying injury problems that make him play below 100%? McNair can operate as a defender but he'd be better on the right but that's where Dijksteel is first choice. It would be better to have a left-footer on the left but perhaps Dijksteel can play as the defensive midfielder. Maybe Jonny Howson deserves another contract as he's probably been one of the better performers but for how long - maybe another who needs resting more than he has been permitted.

As for the keeper situation - perhaps of the five we've got at least three need to be moved on or loaned - we definitely need a presence behind the defence and someone to command the position as Daniels has only played because Lumley ran out of trust.

Though by far the hardest task will be finding strikers who can actually do what it says on the tin rather than Boro being a finishing school for young strikers who rarely finish.

It seems much of the rebuild may depend on Djed Spence being sold for something approaching £20m - though I'd be tempted to sell anyone who could command any kind of decent fee. It may also be time next season to see if any of the academy players can make the step up - btw what happened to Nathan Wood he's also gone backwards.

So, much for Chris Wilder to contemplate and indeed much for him to ponder in terms of tactics and style of play - will he have the type of players he needs for Boro to be better next season and if not does he stick to playing his system with players who can't make it work well enough? A few players regarded as first-teamers will need to become squad players if Boro are to be an improved team or even moved on.


Clive Hurren
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Well, I’m just trying to calm down, having returned home from a very dispiriting afternoon at Preston. I know it didn’t matter in the end, given results elsewhere, but how typical Boro can you get? 5600 Boro fans there making a hell of a spectacle and racket and the team fails to turn up for our biggest occasion of the season, and in fact produces a terrible performance matched only by Sheffield United away. Oh, hang on …… I’d forgotten the earlier games at Luton, Barnsley, Bristol City and Hull ……. 

I really agree with CW’s post-match comments, and to a large extent with the EG’s scores. For once, the EG scored most players realistically. For me, only Howson and Daniels came out of the game with any credit, yet even they had significant flaws today. Howson battled and drove us forward, as he does, but was mostly at fault for PNE’s second goal.  Daniels made 4 fabulous saves, preventing PNE from scoring the eight they could easily have had, but he had an erratic game otherwise, including punching a corner into his own net - it looked a howler,  but his blushes were spared when the ref disallowed it for a foul. It mattered not for Preston - they motored to their second a few minutes later. 

As Wilder said, they were better than us all over the pitch today. An average, mid-table Preston dominated us, out-thought us, out-muscled us, were creative yet combative, and scored 4 goals, all of which should have been prevented had our defence done its work properly. And apart from a couple of decent second half efforts on target and Tav’s goal we created precious little. Again. 

I’m a bit despondent tonight, like many of you, as today showed just how much work has to be done to make this team into a true promotion-challenging force. In essence, I agree with most of you that CW and the recruitment team have a serious summer’s rebuild to crack on with. However, I do think that finishing 7th with this squad, given our totally inconsistent form before he took over and our 14th league position then, is a considerable achievement. So there are cautious grounds for optimism if we hang onto our core of effective players and recruit well in key positions. 


K P in Spain
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EG are reporting JH is to be offered a new contract which I think he deserves based on his performances this season. 😎


Powmill-Naemore
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Posted by: @k-p-in-spain

EG are reporting JH is to be offered a new contract which I think he deserves based on his performances this season. 😎

I took a double take there. Thought you meant John Hickton..... 


K P in Spain
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Posted by: @powmillnaemore
Posted by: @k-p-in-spain

EG are reporting JH is to be offered a new contract which I think he deserves based on his performances this season. 😎

I took a double take there. Thought you meant John Hickton..... 

He would do a better job than our current crop of non goal scoring strikers that’s for sure! 😎


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Boroexile
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What a let down today.  Arguably the biggest game of the season and the team fails to turn up but I wonder how many of us were truly surprised by the defeat and how many of us suspected that it might well happen?  Many of us have lived with typical Boro for so long that nothing can really surprise us any more, depressing though today’s game was. 

Deleriad’s post at 5.09 pm hits the nail on the head for me in a couple of the points he makes.  On Wilder he gives him a B for his performance over the season and sets out with clarity the reasons for that assessment.  I agree with everything he says but I would score him a B- because while he has done a decent job with what was available I didn’t see his performance improve over the latter part of the season and I don’t see that he has addressed what I believe is the biggest problem holding Boro back.

Deleriad questions the ability of some of the players to handle pressure and cites the occasions when the team has crumbled in games during the season.  It seems to me patently clear that Deleriad is right and the lack of mental strength throughout the team must be addressed and fixed if the team is going to progress.  MFC can recruit as many new players as they can afford and hopefully the mew recruits will improve the team but it won’t matter a jot unless the lack of mental strength of the players and team is addressed.

Today was a prime example of the problem.  It was the biggest game of the season with the opportunity at kick-off to scramble into the play-offs.  You would like to think that the team would relish the pressure, be really up for the game and demonstrate a shared single-minded attitude and determination that they were going to do whatever was necessary to win the game.  

Not a bit of it.  What we saw was a feeble and shambolic effort where a very average team made Boro look desperately poor.  While Wilder should carry some of the blame for seemingly having failed to motivate and set up the team so that they were really up for it, the players must carry most of the blame because they really shouldn’t need much motivation, if any, for a game of such importance.  Instead, they crumbled to an abject thumping.

How many times have we seen something similar?  It’s time the problem was fixed and the only crumb of comfort I take from today is that Wilder seems to recognise the problem.  I only hope he can fix it.


Stircrazy
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On the subject of strikers:

https://footballleagueworld.co.uk/will-be-a-major-coup-middlesbrough-eye-20-goal-league-one-player-the-verdict/

Anyone heard of him?


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Norfolk and Boro
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Looks like Boro were on the same beach as Fulham, the only difference is that Fulham had earned their right to be there!


Ken Smith
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Posted by: @martin-bellamy
Posted by: @ken

Sorry folks for being so possitive, Boro now need a 4 goal turnaround now  with Luton winning. One word to describe Boro today - ABJECT. May as well watch the Rugby League Challenge Cup Semifinals now.

I’m hoping the Warriors perform better at Leeds, Ken. 🤞🏻

 


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werdermouth
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Posted by: @norfolk-and-boro

Looks like Boro were on the same beach as Fulham, the only difference is that Fulham had earned their right to be there!

The other difference is that Boro appeared like they were on the beach at high tide and seemed well out of their depth with several looking like they were drowning...


werdermouth
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Posted by: @stircrazy

On the subject of strikers:

https://footballleagueworld.co.uk/will-be-a-major-coup-middlesbrough-eye-20-goal-league-one-player-the-verdict/

Anyone heard of him?

Not previously heard of him but he sounds like he should be able to thread a pass to our strikers...


jarkko
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I hope Everton won't be relagated this spring.  They are too big a club for others to finish above in the Championship next year. Moneybags if there were any.

So fingers crossed for Burnley or even Leeds to be in the Championship next year.

Of course I would expect Boro to be the other of the top two teams next May in 2023.

Up the Boro!


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Ken Smith
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Martin 

It’s been the best Super League by far that I’ve seen this year. At 14-0 up at halftime Wigan seemed to have won this match already as St Helens had never looked like scoring. But begorra Saints came back with a hat trick of converted tries to lead 18-14, what a comback!  But to Warriors credit they came back and deservedly won 20-18. Credit to both teams though for providing me with an alternative sport, although I don’t support either team in reality, but acknowledge other sports events are worth watching when they can put on a spectacle like that.

Can you imagine Boro coming back from 3-0 down to take the lead, no I can’t either? But due respect to Wigan to then regain the lead and hang on and win was a Roy of the Rovers moment. I’m glad I gave up on Boro at half-time to watch Super League, as my Saturday sport wasn’t completely spoiled.

I love Boro, but at my time of life I should know better than to expect Boro to win when it matters, not that it did in the end as credit must also go to Luton Town for recovering from a 7-0 hammering midweek and with an injury hit side to reach the playoffs was highly commendable.  

I agree with you Martin that Boro are light years away from being a Premier League team, and I’d rather watch them remain in the Championship for a few more seasons though being more consistent than taking hammerings most weeks in the Premier League. Their magnificent supporters deserve better than that.

This post was modified 2 months ago 2 times by Ken Smith

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Clive Hurren
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Posted by: @stircrazy

On the subject of strikers:

https://footballleagueworld.co.uk/will-be-a-major-coup-middlesbrough-eye-20-goal-league-one-player-the-verdict/

Anyone heard of him?

I saw MK play at Bolton very early on in the season. I think Twine played in that one. They’re a fluid and attractive side to watch. He’s obviously had a good season, but no doubt there’ll be a bidding war for his signature, so we’ll probably miss out.

Anyway, he clearly knows the ropes. It seems he tied many defences in knots. And if Boro do get him, I think we should insist on a no-strings-attached deal.


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Ken Smith
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Posted by: @stircrazy

On the subject of strikers:

https://footballleagueworld.co.uk/will-be-a-major-coup-middlesbrough-eye-20-goal-league-one-player-the-verdict/

Anyone heard of him?

 


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