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Preston v Boro

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K P in Spain
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Ken.  You have omitted Burnley from your list, a small town club like us who have made a good fist of it; if they can do it then why not us! 😎


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K P in Spain
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Posted by: @martin-bellamy

I’ve said it before, but much as I’d love us to win the playoffs, I think next year in the PL would be a nightmare. Last on MOTD every week, thrilled if we even score a goal, losing almost every week. Fans chanting, “Wilder out”, SG criticised for not supplying the money for top players and an almost inevitable relegation. 
If it happens, I’d like us to adopt Norwich’s culture of not caring too much and having a good go at getting back up again with as much of the same team as possible. I’m not sure what Norwich have in players’ contracts to keep them if relegation happens but I’d like us to follow that model. 

Couldn't agree more Martin.  Hopefully with the benefit of having Kieran Scott on board we can go some way to emulating the Norwich model but without the yo yo effect! 😎


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K P in Spain
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Posted by: @powmillnaemore

Great selection for a favourite Boro team Ken.

it is very pleasing for a youngster like me to see 5 of my era in your team of favourites. I am too young to have seen Ugolini, Hardwick, Manion, Fenton, Clough , Spuhler or Delapenha in action. It is strange though as it seems I know all about them and they have always been familiar names to me.

I loved watching John Hendrie as well. Who can ever forget that goal against Millwall. I recall him as right sided  not left  but he has always been in my list of favourites. I would add in Spike Armstrong wide on the left. I always liked the way he looked almost lazy on the ball, but was anything but and his delivery of the ball was outstanding. I can't argue with you about Souness, but I might slip in Emerson in my midfield rather than the little feller. The man oozed power and class. I do feel guilty omitting Robbie Mustoe from my midfield: an unsung hero if ever there was. Absolutely dependable and really being more one of those favourites in hind sight than at the time. So he will be my first reserve for midfield in the event Emerson goes AWOL.

I am with you on central defence. No one in the game was classier at No. 6 than Willie Maddren. We have been blessed in my years with some great central defenders  including Pallister,  Ehiogu, Southgate, Woodgate and of course Stuart Boam and more. But for passion and leadership it was a pleasure to have seen Tony Mowbray play. I would add John Craggs at right full back. Solid as a brick built out house but tremendous overlapping play with a great shot in him as well. At left back I feel lucky to have seen Terry Cooper in a Boro shirt too. A hugely talented player.

So up front John Hickton has to be my favourite striker. What was not to like about him in a Boro shirt?  I would put Juninho in with him as an inside forward.

In goal I am torn between choosing Mark Schwarzer or Jim Platt. Both favourites of mine and both outstanding keepers. I think I will adopt that English tradition of rotating keepers (as in Clemence and Shilton) rather than make a definitive choice of one over the other, so that way I can include both my favourite keepers!

On my subs bench (and assuming we are only allowed one sub as in my youth) it would have to be Alan Foggon.

Whatever anyone says or thinks  it has to be said that there have been very many outstanding players to have graced our colours over all the years. Here's to the future favourites and may they bring as much enjoyment to the next generations.

Great selections there Powmill, especially for me the likes of Spike, Craggsy, Stuart Boam, Souness and not forgetting John Hickton, heroes one and all. 😎


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Martin Bellamy
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No place in anyone’s team for John O’Rourke? 


Ken Smith
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As an aside I’m hoping that Eintracht Frankfurt get at least the draw at home to West Ham to book a place in the final of the Europa League Final. My great great grandfather was born in Frankfurt and I’ve never liked London clubs especially West Ham after they were more or less gifted the London City Stadium following the London Olympics in 2012.

Whether Malcolm feels the same about Rangers in the other Semifinal against Leipzig I don’t know, but as an historian about the Second World War I’ve also visited the former East German City if only to have a tour of Colditz Castle the scene of the DVD of ‘Colditz’ which I’m currently watching for the umpteenth time starring Bernard Hepton, Jack Hedley, Edward Hardwicke, David McCallum, Richard Wagner and the wonderful Anthony Valentine.


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Martin Bellamy
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Ken, you might be interested to know that my father was a POW in Stalag IXc near Bad Sulza, towards the end of the war. He was captured during the battle of Anzio in Italy, one of the biggest military cock ups of the campaign. I think he was “lucky” to be captured as, according to the records I’ve seen, there was hand to hand fighting the next day and quite a few British officers were killed. He was a lowly Corporal who once had to threaten one of the incompetent officers with his rifle whilst out on patrol. He really didn’t talk much about his war so I’ve had to try and piece information together as best I can. 


jarkko
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Terry Cochrane - still my all time favourite - Maddren, Mogga and Platt for me. Even Colin Cooper. Up the Boro!


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exmil
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A lovely little video of Chris Kamara, who unfortunately is suffering from apraxia of speech and had to retire from Saturday Soccer Special (and other shows) because viewers were noticing he was slurring some of his words. In the video you can notice he is very deliberate about his words, I always loved Kammy on the show, he was “unbelievable Jeff” and Stelling was close to tears when they did a short video of his highlights and he paid tribute to his mate.

https://www.mfc.co.uk/news/homegrown-hero-kammy-revisits-boro-roots-with-vertu-motors

Come on BORO.


lenmasterman
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Nice one,exmil


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lenmasterman
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My best Boro post-war team

Schwarzer

Knowles

Hardwick

Souness

Woodgate 

Pallister

Gibson

Mannion

Clough

Juninho

Holliday


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Malcolm
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Posted by: @ken

As an aside I’m hoping that Eintracht Frankfurt get at least the draw at home to West Ham to book a place in the final of the Europa League Final. My great great grandfather was born in Frankfurt and I’ve never liked London clubs especially West Ham after they were more or less gifted the London City Stadium following the London Olympics in 2012.

Whether Malcolm feels the same about Rangers in the other Semifinal against Leipzig I don’t know, but as an historian about the Second World War I’ve also visited the former East German City if only to have a tour of Colditz Castle the scene of the DVD of ‘Colditz’ which I’m currently watching for the umpteenth time starring Bernard Hepton, Jack Hedley, Edward Hardwicke, David McCallum, Richard Wagner and the wonderful Anthony Valentine.

Hi Ken, I also don't like West Ham, if I remember correctly they were voiceferous in supporting that Boro were deducted the 3 points. Harry Redknapp was the manager and I have no time for him.

So fingers crossed tonight for me that Rangers can make the final. I always support any Scottish team playing europe because it brings a great boost to the Scottish game. A Rangers win tonightwould be massive.

Reference to 2nd World War camps. My home town of Duns in the Scottish Borders is twinned with Zagan in Poland which is where The Great Escape took place in March 1944.

There were many Polish pilots stationed at Duns during the war.

I have a great interest in all camps during the war and have read many books.

I also have visited twice Auschwitz and Birkenau.


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Martin Bellamy
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Auchwitz is sobering isn’t? 


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Powmill-Naemore
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Posted by: @martin-bellamy

Auchwitz is sobering isn’t? 

Somehow hitting "Like" just doesn't show the appropriate appreciation of your post Martin, so please take this reply to your post as that respectful acknowledgement.


Ken Smith
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I’ve visited Krakow twice and felt the need to visit Auscwitz, but never again it was so harrowing. Out of respect I didn’t take any photographs, it just didn’t seem the right thing to do, but Colditz is such a beautiful white building having been used as a hospital in its lifetime. Incidentally the  film of ‘The Colditz Story’ starring John Mills and Eric Portman was shot around Stirling Castle which is well worth a visit.

Regarding the First World War my mother was christened Eva Kraus in 1914 but born in West Lane, Middlesbrough and she once remembered a brick being thrown though her parents sitting room window, a rather frightening experience for a 3 year old child. Before the Second World War many of the male members of the Kraus family chose their wife’s maiden name on marriage to avoid similar reprisals  or worse.

This post was modified 2 months ago by Ken Smith

Martin Bellamy
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Posted by: @ken

I’ve visited Krakow twice and felt the need to visit Auscwitz, but never again it was so harrowing. Out of respect I didn’t take any photographs, it just didn’t seem the right thing to do, but Colditz is such a beautiful white building having been used as a hospital in its lifetime. Incidentally the  film of ‘The Colditz Story’ starring John Mills and Eric Portman was shot around Stirling Castle which is well worth a visit.

I was really affected by our trip to Auschwitz. I lost my glasses on the coach trip (never did find them) and I was feeling a bit sorry for myself, until I saw the display of spectacles taken from the Jewish inmates. I’m filling up just writing this…


Ken Smith
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Martin, I know what you mean, but there were so many stories it was hard to take in so many atrocities, but nevertheless felt duty bound to visit Auschwitz but  once was enough. I loved Wagner, but it’s very difficult to listen to now.

I must stress though that not all Germans were Nazis and I’ve made friends with several when wintering in the Algarve. I even supported West Germany in the 1954 World Cup finals in Switzerland once England and Scotland had been eliminated, and must say that Germany is my favourite holiday destination.

This post was modified 2 months ago 2 times by Ken Smith

Powmill-Naemore
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Posted by: @ken

Martin, I know what you mean, but there were so many stories it was hard to take in so many atrocities, but nevertheless felt duty bound to visit Auschwitz but  once was enough. I loved Wagner, but it’s very difficult to listen to now.

I must stress though that not all Germans were Nazis and I’ve made friends with several when wintering in the Algarve. I even supported West Germany in the 1954 World Cup finals in Switzerland once England and Scotland had been eliminated, and must say that Germany is my favourite holiday destination.

It is absolutely right and proper that we do not visit the sins of the Father onto the children  and also that we remember that we are all the same as each other  with loves and hates and wishes and dreams and wives and children and friends and neighbours and...

I am now getting very upset here thinking again on what is happening to our neighbours in Ukraine.

What is it about man?

This post was modified 2 months ago by Powmill-Naemore

Malcolm
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Great performance tonight from Rangers to reach the Europa League Final.

Boro connection with Marcus Tavernier's brother James one of the goal scorers.

Lets hope that Marcus scores a goal against Preston and keeps the momentum going in the Tavernier family and gets Boro into the play offs.

JAMES TAVERNIER 9

Captain marvel led by example once again with his 18th minute strike - his seventh of the competition - before he emptied the tank defensively to help secure a monumental victory.

 

This post was modified 2 months ago by Malcolm

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werdermouth
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Posted by: @powmillnaemore

What is it about man?

I think the problems come when those who are brought to power by various imperfect electing system end up installing themselves as effectively kings with absolute power to control information and remove opposition. Usually, those who strive for such power are flawed individuals with flawed egos who then surround themselves with people who only agree with them.

Perhaps we can see the parallels with Hitler and Putin - though both are manifestations of their time and country's history but both possess a ruthless pursuit of wanting personal glory, empire and being revered. In some ways Trump has a similar personality but the strength of the US constitution didn't allow him to cancel the election result as the wrong decision.

Though the main worry in all these cases is that a majority of the people were blind to their failings - so it's that dangerous combination of the arrival of a demagogue for a populus looking for a nostalgic return to perceived or entitled greatness, which they seemingly willing to overlook the obvious flaws in character.

Unfortunately, once they've become king they rule by fear and then it's too late to stop them and remove them from power as the consequences for those who oppose are severe.


deleriad
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Posted by: @martin-bellamy

Auchwitz is sobering isn’t? 

I haven't been there but I was in Berlin for the first time in 2019 and went to the Topography of Terror museum there.  It charts the Nazi rise to power from the early 30's and the ways in which so many parts of German society either willingly, ignorantly or accidentally aided it. You can overstate the similarities—history never repeats exactly—but there are so many parallels and so many people making the same mistakes. 

That chilled me because Auschwitz wasn't the start of the journey, it was the end. As you look around now it feels like we're back on the same journey and making all the same misjudgements. In 1928 the Nazi party had just 12 seats in the German parliament. In 1940, they built Auschwitz. Just 12 years. That's the number of years we've had in the Championship since relegation. In that time, if then was now, a fringe far-right party could go from winning a dozen seats in an election in 2010 to interring "enemies of the state" in a concentration camp.

History takes us from people thinking "I'm sure everything will be roughly ok" to mass murder in the blink of an eye.

 


werdermouth
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Getting back to the football, it oddly doesn't feel like Boro are almost about to make the play-offs and maybe it's because it's not totally in our own hands. Though at the same time I don't think both Sheff Utd and Luton will win their games - in fact I think they will most likely both draw their last games.

That would certainly make for a nervy 90 minutes knowing that at any minute the whole picture could change in an instant. I was watching the Man City game against Real Madrid the other night and was fully expecting them to make the final as the clock approached the 90th minute. How wrong was I with that Madrid last-gasp double then an extra time winner.

Thankfully, there will be no extra time on Saturday but it does reinforce that the game is never over until it's over. Though what it did show is that even the best players panic under pressure as the Man City players just resorted to pumping hopeful long balls up the field in a desperate attempt to find an extra-time equaliser.

So with any luck, we'll be celebrating a late gate-crashing into the play-offs tomorrow - but if we don't it doesn't feel like it would be a complete disaster - well not unless both Luton and Sheff Utd both fail to win and Boro fluff their lines too!


Powmill-Naemore
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Posted by: @werdermouth

Getting back to the football...

So with any luck, we'll be celebrating a late gate-crashing into the play-offs tomorrow - but if we don't it doesn't feel like it would be a complete disaster - well not unless both Luton and Sheff Utd both fail to win and Boro fluff their lines too!

Exactly what KP said a few days ago, that it will only really be utterly disappointing if we fail to win tomorrow when either of Luton or Sheffield fail to do so.

The season is over 46 games and the only standings that will count are those after the results are all in after match 46, so if we do sneak into 6th, or even 5th, place it will be because over the season as a whole we will have won that right.

 

It will ne nervy.


Martin Bellamy
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We really need Fulham to turn up in Sheffield with a desire to win, but none of it will matter if we don’t beat PNE. 
Don’t imagine that Preston won’t be bothered, they’re only one point above Blackpool and will be absolutely desperate to finish above them for close season bragging rights. 


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Ken Smith
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I remember well that day the 5th of May 1997 as I was in Wandsworth, not in jail I hasten to add, but for my appearance on Channel 4s ‘Fifteen to One’ and sometimes wishing I was at home watching Sky and Boro’s courageous but vain attempt at beating Manchester United at Old Trafford.

’Fifteen to One’ wasn’t played with an audience unlike ‘Countdown’, but Channel 4 were generous in paying for my expenses enough to allow my wife to attend and our joint hotel expenses and railway and taxi fares,etc.However except for the initial applause at the beginning and end of the show every one had to remain quiet as canned applause took over. My wife told me later that the presenter William G Stewart tripped before his entrance and spilled his box of all the questions, which I wasn’t aware of at the time. Unfortunately I was eliminated after the second round. The broadcast was some 6 weeks later, and I can honestly say that if Stewart hadn’t dropped the box of questions I would have performed much better although the winner was outstanding.

Later I managed to see the highlights of the 3-3 draw from Old Trafford on mute through the window of a TV shop unaware of the final score. So a double disappointment all round. From that initial viewing I hadn’t realised until yesterday how dreadful the conditions were, as it was a lovely sunny day in London certainly after the TV appearance. Another disappointment was that the photograph of all the contestants which I was sent later was only in black and white. C’est La Vie!

This post was modified 2 months ago 3 times by Ken Smith

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K P in Spain
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CW stated in his pre match press conference that he has a full squad to pick from. 

Give these comments and based on past performance, I would expect to see an unchanged side from that which started against Stoke and I hope so because I believe tha Tav has found his true position. CoB 😎


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K P in Spain
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Just remembered that Paddy did not play against Stoke due to illness. Now he is fit he will probably return in place of Peltier as the only change. 😎


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Andy R
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Topic starter  

Graeme Lee sacked from Hartlepool after just five months. Dear oh dear.


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Ken Smith
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Posted by: @andy-r

Graeme Lee sacked from Hartlepool after just five months. Dear oh dear.

But why with one game remaining; I can’t see the point.


Liked by 5 people: K P in Spain, Powmill-Naemore, jarkko, Andy R and Malcolm
 
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K P in Spain
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Reverting back to our earlier posts about favourite players of the past, I believe one we have overlooked is Grant Leadbitter. 

An excellent midfield general and Captain. We have missed his drive, goals and leadership since he departed.

Let’s hope that we can recruit a player with his leadership qualities during the summer. 😎


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Ken Smith
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Well it’s crunch time later today so which match will be Boro’s better chance of Boro reaching the playoffs; Luton v Reading, or Sheffield United v Fulham?

Let’s look at the former. Which Luton will turn up, the Luton that recently beat Forest 1-0 at home and Coventry 5-0, or the Luton that lost 0-5 at home to Birmingham earlier in the season?  Reading have had a terrible season, but surprisingly beat both Fulham and Sheffield United 2-1 away.

However will Sheffield United beat Fulham? Not if they play like they did in the aforementioned home defeat to Reading or the 0-1 home defeat to Birmingham, but they did beat Swansea 4-0 at home and Boro 4-1.

Then of course there’s Boro themselves who lost 2-3 at Barnsley, 1-2 at Bristol City and 0-2 at Hull, but won 2-0 at Forest and 2-1 at Huddersfield. Of course Preston have beaten Bournemouth 2-1 at home as well as Luton 2-0 at Deepdale but recently lost at 1-4 at home to Blackburn and Hull City by the same score. 

So it all depends on momentum and that little bit of luck. I’m going for 2 draws at Kenilworth Road and Bramall Lane, so all that Boro need to do is win for 5th place and another two encounters with Huddersfield. Sounds easy doesn’t it, if only life was so simple, but Boro have won 8 times at Deepdale in this century if one counts the FA Cup win in 2006 so why not again. So come on Boro, and prove me right!

 

This post was modified 2 months ago by Ken Smith

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