Further to the press conference yesterday, it was confirmed that Jonathan Woodgate is returning to the Riverside and taking up the role as Michael Carrick assistant.
However, the pair will also be joined by the Boro’s current U21s manager Mark Tinkler, as well as former captain and current individual development coach Grant Leadbitter.
Alan Fettis who was at Manchester United for many years will also remain as part of the team as the goalkeeping coach.
We all believe that there is one more coach to come but MC said that he wasn’t going to rush into making just any appointment.
OFB
Do we know where that leaves Lee Cattermole? Is he still involved?
Boro Exile
Can anyone help me get to grips with what Kieran Scott’s job responsibilities are as Director of Football? When he was appointed he said that his job was “to control the future of the club” which I would have thought is the Chairman’s job. So I’m not clear on what “control the future” means in terms of the specific business areas and tasks for which he is responsible, the objectives he has been given and how his performance is judged and measured. Perhaps OFB or someone else who is close to the Club can throw some light on this for me (and maybe others) please?
Note:
Perhaps this may clarify things
OFB
@original-fat-bob - Thanks for that link, OFB. Of course when the interview took place/article was written, things might have looked more rosy and the relationship between CW and others in the hierarchy of the club might very well have appeared to be longer-lasting than eventually turned out to be the case.
@martin-bellamy. It is my understanding that he is responsible for the club's U18 side, as per the MFC website. 😎
I take your points re Scott but he didn't need to say anything in my opinion. His role is one for the long term and he can be judged on what he achieves with the club over 3 to 5 years. I felt a bit sorry for Carrick when Scott was answering what appeared to be planted questions as they were really nothing to do with MC and briefly took away from what was otherwise a positive occasion for all involved. If Scott felt the need to put his side of events across, perhaps a separate interview on the club website or with the Gazette would have been wiser whilst also giving him more opportunity to go into more detail (if he wants to/is able to) and further explain his role. There's a positive PR opportunity that instead came out as sour.
It then didn't help that his answer on recruitment didn't ring true. In a social media age where any mischievous rascal can create a rumour, I'm not a fan of the phrase "there's no smoke without fire" but there does seem to be a recent history of Boro signing players without the manager's explicit backing that even pre-dates Scott.
The recent(ish)names that spring to mind are:
- Karanka: Rhodes & Downing. Rhodes in particular being described as a "gift from the chairman" or words to that effect
- Karanka again: Gestede and possibly Bamford (second time), both of whom barely featured after signing
- Pulis: McNair, who again barely featured until Pulis was replaced by Woodgate
- Wilder: Boyd-Munce, Forss, Hoppe, who again barely featured and were described as "development players" and/or "signed by the club"
Of course, no manager has explicitly said "I don't want them" in the press. To do so would be professional suicide.
Which brings me onto Wilder and the speculation that he played under strength teams in order to get sacked and earn compensation. Surely if Wilder was desperate to get the boot, he had ample opportunity to criticise the signings quite explicitly? Why be subtle about it, it's not like playing below strength teams wouldn't also sound alarm bells to prospective employers.
This isn't meant to be an attack of the club's model which, as I've said a few times, I think is quite sensible for a club of our size in the longer term. It just seemed misjudged from Scott.
Of course, the real problem started long before Wilder's demise. I can only guess but my instinct is that the club set about taking on a new strategic model some time ago and installed Scott to see it through. However, I think they then saw an opportunity to hire Chris Wilder and decided to put the Head Coach idea on the back burner in order to bring in a previously highly successful manager. Wilder had been out of work for a little while and perhaps he or his agent put the feelers out to a number of clubs, and Boro bit.
At that point, either Boro gave Wilder some assurances that he would retain an acceptable level of control, but then foisted our model upon him, or Wilder agreed to Boro's way of working with little intention of actually doing so. It is probably somewhere between the two.
That's my take anyway, and neither side comes out with much credit.
Now, however, we have a new Head Coach who, hopefully, is very much on board with the club's operating model and can work in tandem with it. I really hope it works and the disastrous episode of 2022 can be firmly put to bed.
Someone who will also be desperate for that to happen is Kieran Scott, because if we burn through another manager due to "behind the scenes issues" it will surely become clear that there is a big problem for him.
As far as I’m aware Lee Cattermole has returned to his former position at the Boro Academy
OFB
Sorry to read your report of statements made by our recruitment manager. I note that he said that all buys were OK' d by the manager. Which tells you all that you need to know about the chaos at the club. The scouting system should be in operation 24-7 without interference from anyone.
This is my club, it is a football club, you do not stop supporting it just because it is run in a way that would insult a bring and buy stall. The reason we are all pleased about this signing is simple. It means that we will see some of the awful actions which we have witnessed recently cease, and that will be rather nice.
This is my club, it is a football club, you do not stop supporting it just because it is run in a way that would insult a bring and buy stall. The reason we are all pleased about this signing is simple. It means that we will see some of the awful actions which we have witnessed recently cease, and that will be rather nice.
That’s sort of the point I was trying to make. Supporting a football club isn’t like buying a service where we can take our business elsewhere - once you’ve made you’re choice your stuck with it, but it’s also supposed to give us pleasure. How do we manage to get that pleasure when the football is dire and we believe that the club is doing everything wrong in the background? And if we can see it why don’t senior management?
My weekends used to be badly affected when we lost games but I’m over that. I’ll enjoy the wins and games where we play well, but I’ve come to the view that the players, manager and senior directors haven’t conspired to try and upset me by losing nor playing badly. I don’t believe that we can have the best players, the best management and club structure in the Division- it’s possible, I guess, but unlikely, as we’re a relatively small club from a declining post industrial town in a (perceived) unattractive region of England. I won’t ever stop supporting the Boro, but the club’s not as important to me as it used to be.
Watched Sheffield Wednesday v Bristol Rovers tonight and young Coburn scored a good goal. That’s 3 goals in 7 appearances and he hasn’t played 90 minutes in most ( all?) games. When given a chance he looks as though he’ll score.
Better than Boros quartet of forwards . Philip of Huddersfield
I agree, Philip. I’ve said many times before that the decision to send Josh out on loan when we were crying out for a decent striker was crass. I see it as further evidence that Wilder cared little for using the academy youngsters or developing them as we should have. See also Martin Payero, though his route to Boro was obviously different.
Does anyone know if we have a recall clause for Josh in January?
Supporting one’s home club is important to me and most Teesside football loving fans. As I grow older defeats don’t upset me as much as when I was younger, after all it’s only a game though I can’t imagine ever supporting any other team in preference to Boro. When I was doing my National Service I realised the passion that my comrades had for their local clubs and apart from the Munich Air disaster when most of us in Singapore wanted Manchester United to win the FA Cup more out of sympathy than anything else, but if any of our clubs had been drawn against United our allegiance switched to our own local clubs.
It was the first time that I realised that supporters were just as passionate about their clubs as I was about the Boro. I never came across anyone who would support the big guns of Arsenal or Manchester United in preference to their own clubs despite the tragic circumstances at Munich. Now of course some football fans only want to support a successful team, but in those days in the late 50s we all supported the likes of Charlton, Crystal Palace, Everton, Notts County, Portsmouth, Sheffield Wednesday, West Brom ,Wolves and Wrexham except when playing against opponents within our group apart from Man United of course out of sympathy.
There was no television on the island at that time so apart from newsreels at the local Astra cinema news was sketchy. My mother used to send cuttings from the Evening Gazette about the Boro but they took 6 weeks to arrive by sea as President Nasser had closed the Suez Canal at that time and airmail was very expensive. So thank your lucky stars that you can watch the Boro, listen to their matches, or read reports of their matches. In the long term win, lose or draw we still have a football club with a rich history which we almost lost in 1986.
you make a very good point about club loyalty but I do wonder if things have really changed. The media - here and certainly abroad - spend all of their time talking about the big clubs and this has creamed off the floating supporter and has given impetus to the various super-league ideas. However, compared to almost all countries around the world, there is still a huge following in the UK all the way down the football pyramid.
Regarding the various discussions on here about the degree that MFC results and behaviour affect me, I too find myself coping better with defeats and the vagaries of fortune that seem to dog MFC. Maybe it’s simply because as I get older - first game at Ayresome Park in late 1950s - I can’t afford to go off in a huff and miss a chunk of the Boro supporting that I have left. That’s also probably why I veer towards optimism in my response to what’s going on.
With hindsight, the appointment of Wilder does appear psychologically out of line with the direction that the club was taking and it may indeed have been an opportunistic move to get a perceived ‘promotion expert’ on board. If so, the short term gain hasn’t eventuated and the sensible decision has been taken to hire someone who is part of the future of football rather than the past or, at best, the short-term present. I like the look of Carrick but we have little real idea of how this will work out and won’t know until, say, Christmas by which time he will have had the chance to really work with the squad rather than reel off 5 games in two weeks.
let’s hope for the best
utb
I believe we do have a recall clause for Josh in January 2023
OFB
How about Martin Payero? Can we recall him in January if wanted by Carrick?
I think Payero won the league at Boca Juniors in Argentina just recently. I could be wrong, though. So are their season over already and they concentrate on the World Cup next?
Up the Boro!
Further on Josh Coburn after scoring the equaliser at Sheffield Wednesday last night.
He has had the desired impact at Rovers, scoring three goals in five appearances after joining on a season-long loan deal from Middlesbrough. Chris Wilder had green-lighted the move but now Manchester United legend Michael Carrick is at the helm at the Riverside Stadum.
“I better be quiet about what I am saying because Michael Carrick has gone in there,” Barton said in his post-match reaction on Sky Sports.
“The last thing we want is them to recall him because he had a period out and we had to be patient with him. He had an injury but he has rewarded our patience and he’s really added to our team."
Nice to see a Boro striker scoring regularly. Up the Boro!
To be honest it has probably been best for us that Coburn has gone out than sit around here on the bench as part of 6 strikers under Wilder. If he gets a good season (or at least half season) at Bristol Rovers, playing and scoring regularly then he'll be in pole position to come back to us for a starting place.
Under Carrick it looks like we may play with just one striker in which case you have to ask who of the following, right now, he would be starting ahead of: Akpom, Muniz, Watmore, Forss, Hoppe.
And, of course, the whole point of the "golden thread" and the academy is that some players make it to the first team and some get loaned out and then sold for a decent fee in order to help fund the academy costs. In many ways, Coburn is being handled correctly. Right now, no one knows whether he'll end up in our first team or sold. Brynn, is another good example. Right now he's winning all sorts of plaudits. Next season he'll either come in as #1 or #2 or be sold.
It's fashionable to slate the club for everything but those two are actually examples of our academy and development system working as it should. It's players like Joe Gibson or Boyd Munce (and Hoppe) who we're failing with. They seem to be in limbo.
@andy-r A good reply which I agree with.
Scott should of only talked about the present and going forward with MC. But no he wanted, in my opinion, to deflect what is obvious amongst the fans, poor choice of players over the last three transfer windows, the last two especially. So he said all purchases were a collective.
Believe that as you want. Certainly the percentage agreement.
deleriad, as it has turned out, I think you are quite correct about Josh Coburn. If he had stayed at MFC, there is a very good chance that he would only have been playing with Hoppe in the under 23’s. Now at leasrpt he is getting vital experience in League 1 at a club that may have a chance of flirting with the playoffs.
I watched the T20 World cricket match yesterday and reported as I saw it from an England perspective on the cricket section of Diasboro, but the Yorkshire Post wrote more about how it all affected England’s chances of retaining the World Cup. Quite rightly too as Ireland outplayed England and deserved to win. If England don’t beat Australia tomorrow they are effectively doomed and I’d love to see Ireland reach the semifinals if that were so.
We English always love the under dogs and I was discussing this with Lyndon the Australian son-in-law from Perth of my next door neighbours who is over here for a few weeks to do some gardening for his Sunderland born father-in-law. That’s how it used to be in football in the 50s when all my comrades mostly National Servicemen starved of football for two years supported each other’s teams. I failed to mention yesterday how I also became a fan of Hibernian and Glentoran purely because that’s who Mac and Paddy supported independently.
None of us really wanted to be in Singapore and very few of us knew the real Christian names of our comrades. I was Smithy or Smudge to my mates and I doubt if many knew my real name was Ken. It was a different age then and nobody ever found out the real Christian name of Taffy from Wrexham. Everyone had a nickname and nobody took offence at that, or if they did they never showed it.
Monday night’s were the best as we took it in turns to record Hancock’s Half Hour on a short wave radio and tape recorder after midnight on Sundays and congregated around a couple of beds to listen to Tony Hancock, Sid James, Bill Kerr and Hattie Jacques the following night. It was football and Tony Hancock that united us all especially in the 18 months we shared in Changi. Happy days on reflection, but how we all missed dear old Blighty and our local football clubs!
Much comment about Josh Coburn on Diasboro lately and whether he might be Boro’s answer to our scoring problems. But it doesn’t always work out that way. Remember Chris Freestone the Nottinghamshire lad from Arnold Boro signed in 1994 on the strength of his 67 goals from 60 appearances. For two seasons he scored almost a goal a game for Boro reserves but only made about 10 appearances in Boro’s first team scoring just the once but then Boro had a plethora of international strikers like Yakubu, Viduka, Hasselbank, Nemeth and Job around that time so was sent on loan to Carlisle and Northampton who he eventually signed for full time. To say that he had more clubs than Jack Nicklaus was no exaggeration as thereafter he played for Hartlepools, Cheltenham, Shrewsbury, Forest Green, Dundalk, Rugby United, Kings Lynn, Leek Town, Ilkeston, Gresley Rovers and Huckall Town none of whom he was a prolific scorer with until he returned to Arnold Town.
Perhaps Josh Coburn will be more successful than Freestone and emulate Jamie
Much comment about Josh Coburn on Diasboro lately and whether he might be Boro’s answer to our scoring problems. But it doesn’t always work out that way. Remember Chris Freestone the Nottinghamshire lad from Arnold Boro signed in 1994 on the strength of his 67 goals from 60 appearances. For two seasons he scored almost a goal a game for Boro reserves but only made about 10 appearances in Boro’s first team scoring just the once but then Boro had a plethora of international strikers like Yakubu, Viduka, Hasselbank, Nemeth and Job around that time so was sent on loan to Carlisle and Northampton who he eventually signed for full time. To say that he had more clubs than Jack Nicklaus was no exaggeration as thereafter he played for Hartlepools, Cheltenham, Shrewsbury, Forest Green, Dundalk, Rugby United, Kings Lynn, Leek Town, Ilkeston, Gresley Rovers and Huckall Town none of whom he was a prolific scorer with until he returned to Arnold Town.
Perhaps Josh Coburn will be more successful than Freestone and emulate Jamie Vardy at Leicester.
Josh Coburn goal
Unfortunately that link works in the UK only. But I hope others are able to see it. If not, this should work anyway: https://www.mfc.co.uk/news/2022/october/27/loan-watch--/
I agree with deleriad - there is a lot of advantages for Josh playing at Rovers on loan. I just speculated if Carrick wants him back in January.
But if we play with just one striker, then we have up to 4 strikers who won't play regularly. I guess, that Carrick and Woodgate would prefer 4-3-3 long term. But only after the WC (World Cup, not toilet) break or after the January transfer window would be closed.
But it is nice to see him developing, anyway. Up the Boro!
Ken, if Coburn DOES turn out to be a Vardy, then either Middlesbrough FC will be crashing into the Premier League next season or the year after with his goals (I appreciate that when Vardy appeared in the Football League he was not, in football terms, a youngster) OR the club will make a LOT of money when he is sold - maybe both!
I agree with other posters on here. It was probably better for Coburn to have been loaned out for this season (or the first part of it) firstly because CW obviously didn't "fancy him" as a regular striker so it would be better to get games under his belt at an important time in his development. Secondly it is this year he needs to show he can be a prolific striker and, now he is fit, I expect he will be a regular starter at Rovers, especially if he keeps on scoring. He is in the 3rd tier but regular goals are valuable at any level and nobody so far in this year's Boro squad looks anything like a regular scorer. If he continues to score at Bristol Rovers then I hope he will be brought back to Boro possibly in January but certainly at the end of the season, and then given an extended run in the First Team. I have my fingers crossed that Josh will prove to be a success.
In fact I had a conversation last night with a Geordie football supporter at the Battered Badger, discussing the loan of Josh Coburn and how he was doing. The Geordie thought it didn't look good for Josh that he had been loaned out. I pointed out that it worked out well for Stewie Downing loaned out to Sunderland before breaking through properly at Boro and then spending most of his career in the PL with Boro, Villa, Liverpool and West Ham. And I brought up one David Beckham who was loaned out by ManU (I think to PNE), whose career therefater was "stellar". Not sure the Geordie accepted the argument but hopefully I will be proved correct.
MFC have confirmed that Martin Payero has collected a title winning medal with Boca Juniors after they clinched top spot on a dramatic final day.
There were six teams who could have become champions of Argenitina, but it was Boca who took the silverware after a 2-2 draw against Independiente.
Martin has made 15 appearances in the league for Boca.
There was no info if he can return to Boro in January. But the loan is initially agreed to end on Jun 30, 2023.
Up the Boro!
Josh is on a season long loan as per MFC
Josh Coburn has joined League One side Bristol Rovers on a season-long loan.
The 19-year-old striker scored five goals in a breakout 2021/22 campaign, including the winner against Tottenham Hotspur in the Emirates FA Cup sixth round.
Coburn suffered a knee injury which has ruled him out since the opening day draw against West Brom.
He will remain at Rockliffe in the short-term to work on his rehab before heading to the South West looking to build on his fledgling career with regular minutes for Joey Barton's side.
Everyone at MFC wishes Josh the best of luck for the rest of the season.
@malcolm Thanks for the link Malcolm, a well taken goal with his chip.
Jarrko, I think Payero has made most of his starts from the bench. Not knowing the level of the Argentine Premier League, I guess it is difficult to quantify his success and whether Boca would be interested signing his on a permanent deal.
We are probably going to lose most of the fee we paid for him if he stays in Argentina, so if there is a recall clause, maybe CW could consider bringing him back?
After all at the moment there is not a lot of real completion for midfield places and no creativity.
I think Coburn has largely come off the bench too, though he is still returning from injury.
The ideal situation with Josh would have been for us not to have bought Hoppe or Forss, therefore going into the season with 4 strikers including Josh.
As it is, I agree with Deleriad that he’s better off playing regularly elsewhere.
I do wish we could go back, keep Tav, Payero and Josh and not make some of the signings we did but it’s been a bit of a mess.
Hopefully we’ve bottomed out now though and start to climb again.
@pedro Yes, I think you are right and Payero has not started too many games.
I know nothing about the league, but Argentina has won the World Cup a couple of times. But their best players are usually playing in Europe.
We are investing in young players and I wouldn't say he couldn't do it here with Carrick at helm.
Up the Boro!
OFB, thanks for the link to the Northern Echo interview with Kieran Scott. It did throw a little light on what he does but not a great deal. It seemed clear from what he said that his major “focus” is recruitment and so it was interesting to read that he was recruiting a Head of Recruitment reporting to him. As that presumably takes a lot of the recruitment workload off him I would hope that he has other areas of focus too. If not he would appear to be a highly paid but under utilised senior executive at the Club. Although thinking about it maybe it is better if he spends less time on recruitment judging by the results he has delivered so far on both the team manager and players.