I see that Hartlepool have been also been drawn away to Premier League opposition, namely Crystal Palace not the most glamorous of ties for them. I recall though that Pools have beaten Palace on at least two occasions in the FA Cup 3rd Round both at the Victoria Ground. Pools won 2-1 in 1978 whilst Boro beat Coventry 3-0. However Pools lost 1-4 at Ipswich in the next round whilst Boro went on to beat Everton 3-2 and Bolton 2-0 before being held at home 0-0 to Leyton Orient in the quarterfinals and then losing 1-2 in the replay.
However in 1993 Pools won again, this time 1-0 under Billy Horner with also Eric McMordie in the side, but thereafter didn’t win another match for 20 matches. Pools fans will be hoping that history doesn’t repeat itself, whilst Boro fans would love to reach the Quarterfinals again.
An alternative angle to Exmil's link above:
My recollection of Derby fans to Boro in general and SG in particular during the initial complaint about Mel Morris and his book keeping practices wasn't exactly reasonable and fair minded. I also seem to recall derby fans gloating and caricatures of Morris being a puppet master to Boro and the EFL.
I don't remember Derby fans being upset about Wycombe being relegated as their club dragged proceedings out to save their own skin at the expense of Wycombe just a few months back. I feel for the individual genuine fans of the Club but if someone is prepared to bid for the Club it's not too difficult to know whether then Club is worth £5M, £50M or £500M and that has to factor in Creditors and the potential £50 odd million to cover Boro and Wycombe's legal case. Perhaps Mr Morris could sell the Stadium back to the Club for a £1 as a gesture of goodwill.
I saw most of the Forest versus Arsenal match in the FA Cup yesterday. I think our Djed was very good. Not as good as Jones perhaps but much more matured than before.
Here is the rating from the local newspaper:
Djed Spence: A standout showing by the right-back, constantly doing Djed Spence things as he tore the Gunners apart. Superb forward runs and strong defensively. A performance of real class against top-flight opposition. Rating: 9/10
See more at https://www.nottinghampost.com/sport/football/football-news/nottingham-forest-player-ratings-arsenal-6464016
Up the Boro!
Thanks for sharing the open letter from the Derby fan, OFB. It’s an interesting read.
I’m sure like most of us, I have real sympathy for Derby supporters. Their current situation is of course not their fault and nobody, Steve Gibson included I imagine, will want to see their club cease.
I also have doubts about the the compensation claim. Derby’s rule-breaking ultimately denied us a place in the play-offs but not necessarily a place in the Premier League which I assume is where the multi-million pound figure comes from. One might argue that Wolves and Villa did exactly the same in their promotion seasons, though the difference being that they both successfully broke the rules and are now established in the top flight and seemingly beyond punishment. I would have to contest the statement that well-run clubs ultimately flourish in those circumstances.
That is perhaps Steve Gibson’s point. He is clearly sick and tired of adhering to the rules whilst others do as they please and finish above Boro. Presumably SG feels an example needs to be made of such clubs before more clubs take a “if you can’t beat them, join them” approach to financial fair play.
The slight issue I have with the letter is that whilst it claims Derby fans accept Mel Morris is to blame and they are ashamed of his actions, it strongly suggests that if Derby go out of business, it will be Steve Gibson’s fault.
No. If the worst happens, it is still Mel Morris’ doing and the EFL can also be implicated for allowing these situations to pass in the past. Gibson is the whistleblower, not the criminal.
I doubt that Boro will receive a large sum in compensation - Wycombe may have a bugger claim to a smaller amount - and therefore that Derby will go out of business, and I hope they don’t, but it would be shortsighted to blame Steve Gibson if they do.
Diasboro thoughts on this please:
Come on BORO.
Had Derby not been found out and/or had got promoted into the Premier League, can anyone honestly think that any Derby fan would have given a flying monkey about how badly their owner mis-managed their club to gain an unfair advantage over the rest of the league. I don't think so.
A little like Bob said, where was the overwhelming support from other clubs fans over the Blackburn postponement and point reduction.
Personally, I have no sympathy. I hope the Wycome and Boro claims are maintained and if it means another club disappearing, so be it. If the consequences of breaking the rules are not allowed to happen, where is the incentive for any other club to stick by the rules in the future.
I think that we have, as usual, agreed a foolish deal with Forest, insidetead of getting him back and selling him to the highest bidder.
I think that we have, as usual, agreed a foolish deal with Forest, insidetead of getting him back and selling him to the highest bidder.
If we had got him back he wouldn't have been playing yesterday and in doing so has probably doubled his value.
It would appear that for whatever reason he doesn't want to be at Boro, it may have been Warnock, it may have been his attitude, the location of Boro being too far North or that he was reigned in over his behaviour whilst here. Whatever the reason/s he wanted to stay at Forest. He would be sat on the bench had he come back here and wasting away because at the moment Jones is probably our most important and influential player.
Maybe Wilder can bring him back in the summer and we start again or we sell him knowing that at the start of the loan we may have got only one or two million for him at best but today Arsenal fans are asking their Club to sign him and his Forest team mate Lyle Taylor reckons he is worth £15M now.
I think that we have, as usual, agreed a foolish deal with Forest, insidetead of getting him back and selling him to the highest bidder.
Plato, the new deal is a loan until the end of the season and he will be ours to sell, if we had brought him back, there would not have been yesterday’s display to attract interest from other clubs, instead we would have had a unhappy player in the dressing room. If he continues his form with Forest until the end of the season, his value will increase and maybe attract interest from Premiership clubs.
Come on BORO.
I think that we have, as usual, agreed a foolish deal with Forest, insidetead of getting him back and selling him to the highest bidder.
Plato, the new deal is a loan until the end of the season and he will be ours to sell, if we had brought him back, there would not have been yesterday’s display to attract interest from other clubs, instead we would have had a unhappy player in the dressing room. If he continues his form with Forest until the end of the season, his value will increase and maybe attract interest from Premiership clubs.
Come on BORO.
I think if he tears Leicester a new one in the next round neither Boro or Forest will have a chance of keeping him. The good news is that he is a Boro player and we get the financial gain. There will now be bigger clubs watching him and heaven forbid a bidding war breaks out. That match will also have been watched across Europe and we may even see interest from abroad.
Worst case is he comes back and willing to give things a go under Wilder as a more experienced and confident Player, more understood and appreciated by Boro fans. He didn't look anything like the Player he does now while he was here but I think that was more down to him running around man marking shadows for Warnock rather than playing his own game.
Saw an interesting comment about Spence (can't remember where) which is that he has an excellent partnership with Brennan Johnson so as a wing-back he plays quite deep and focuses on starting attacks from there. Jones, on the other hand, plays more like a winger; he's often the furthest forward of Crooks and Dijksteel. He presses quite hard but has the speed to get back in defence when needed.
If Spence was playing for us then there would be more onus on Dijksteel and Crooks to get forward because Spence doesn't carry the same level of attacking threat as Jones. Ironically, I *think* Spence is playing in a role more like the wingbacks that Wilder employed at Sheffield Utd than Jones is for us. However right now I don't think anyone would swap out Jones for Spence.
Unless something odd happens I think we just to have treat Spence as someone we'll sell in the summer for a chunky fee and figure that he has ended up being a good financial investment for us.
Saw an interesting comment about Spence (can't remember where) which is that he has an excellent partnership with Brennan Johnson so as a wing-back he plays quite deep and focuses on starting attacks from there. Jones, on the other hand, plays more like a winger; he's often the furthest forward of Crooks and Dijksteel. He presses quite hard but has the speed to get back in defence when needed.
If Spence was playing for us then there would be more onus on Dijksteel and Crooks to get forward because Spence doesn't carry the same level of attacking threat as Jones. Ironically, I *think* Spence is playing in a role more like the wingbacks that Wilder employed at Sheffield Utd than Jones is for us. However right now I don't think anyone would swap out Jones for Spence.
Unless something odd happens I think we just to have treat Spence as someone we'll sell in the summer for a chunky fee and figure that he has ended up being a good financial investment for us.
Almost by accident rather than design he may become the model that the club now wish to follow. Acquire cheap, invest training and development in them and then sell on for a profit.
Not bad for a Player many would have gladly driven to Forest last August:
Has he really improved that much since he went to Forest or was he mishandled under NW? I guess we’ll never know, but at least we look like we’ll earn some money from his eventual sale.
Footballers have notoriously short careers so I hope he enjoys his time at Forest or wherever he ends up. I guess he can prove his critics (including me) wrong by carrying on his current trajectory. I wish him well.
For what it's worth I said after the Fulham game ( https://diasboro.club/forum/middlesbrough-football-club/fulham-v-boro/paged/2/#post-8685)
Spence is an odd one. His football brain and confidence seems to have grown massively over the summer but he still doesn't seem good enough going forwards to play up front and maybe not defensively strong enough to play at right back. He is possibly a better wing-back than Dijksteel.
I think that although Spence and Jones had excellent games that [Warnock] doesn't actually trust them
Against QPR where Spence was played on the right wing
Spence was probably unlucky to be subbed; defensively he was good but you still wouldn't bet on him actually scoring a goal.
Warnock's handling of Spence pretty much mirrors his handling of the whole team; he identified the potential and got part of the way there but couldn't figure out how to make the most of it. The irony is that because Ameobi was abducted by aliens and Warnock mishandled Spence we have ended up with Jones coming through.
It was Exmil who kindly brought the Derby letter from a fan to our attention.
cheers
OFB
Sorry Exmil! Thanks for posting it up.
Am I alone or does anyone else not accept all the current hype about Spence?
I accept that he has reportedly had some good performances for Forest and certainly what I saw of him yesterday he displayed more energy than he did latterly at Boro.
I do not accept, as some outlets have reported, that he pulled Arsenal apart; in fact for me he showed some of his old failings, lots of step overs but no end product and he still looks defensively suspect.
I cannot accept that in a matter of a few months he has suddenly become a £10M player and doubt he ever will change clubs at that price.
Hooefully the hype will last until the end of the season and we can capitalise as much as possible when he is sold, which will be for much less than currently being touted in my view. 😎
Saw an interesting comment about Spence (can't remember where) which is that he has an excellent partnership with Brennan Johnson so as a wing-back he plays quite deep and focuses on starting attacks from there. Jones, on the other hand, plays more like a winger; he's often the furthest forward of Crooks and Dijksteel. He presses quite hard but has the speed to get back in defence when needed.
If Spence was playing for us then there would be more onus on Dijksteel and Crooks to get forward because Spence doesn't carry the same level of attacking threat as Jones. Ironically, I *think* Spence is playing in a role more like the wingbacks that Wilder employed at Sheffield Utd than Jones is for us. However right now I don't think anyone would swap out Jones for Spence.
Unless something odd happens I think we just to have treat Spence as someone we'll sell in the summer for a chunky fee and figure that he has ended up being a good financial investment for us.
Almost by accident rather than design he may become the model that the club now wish to follow. Acquire cheap, invest training and development in them and then sell on for a profit.
RR
Or is it,' Acquire cheap ,fail to develop their assets, loan them out to a club which has decent progressive coaching, and then sell them on for a profit'?
The rest of the footballing world must wonder what kind of set up we had when we could loan out a player who was surplus to requirements, yet within months of leaving us becomes worth £10 million plus on the open market. It's Forest, not us, who have created around 90% of his current value. That should give everyone at the club some cause for introspection.
Whilst his stock is this high- and he was brilliant against Arsenal- we should aim to get rid in this window. Because we all know on this forum that there is another Djed who could easily reappear at any time.
KP Didn't see yours before I posted. I think we're making the same point.
RR
Or is it,' Acquire cheap ,fail to develop their assets, loan them out to a club which has decent progressive coaching, and then sell them on for a profit'?
The rest of the footballing world must wonder what kind of set up we had when we could loan out a player who was surplus to requirements, yet within months of leaving us becomes worth £10 million plus on the open market. It's Forest, not us, who have created around 90% of his current value. That should give everyone at the club some cause for introspection.
Whilst his stock is this high- and he was brilliant against Arsenal- we should aim to get rid in this window. Because we all know on this forum that there is another Djed who could easily reappear at any time.
I think the "Golden Thread" was intended to achieve this but of course it was so badly flawed it was a Dodo and couldn't get off the ground. I think the arrival of Scott and some of the recent signings like Bilongo and Boyd-Munce indicates that it is now a definite policy. The emergence of Jones indicates that they have got some right as the ITV commentary team will see at Old Trafford or Villa Park when they realise why Spence was deemed surplus (removes tongue from cheek).
I think Spence was good in his maiden season under Woodgate. I even started to consider him as my favourite player.
When Warnock came, he started to disappear. Maybe he was not suited to the system as Warnock prefered 4-3-3 and wingers more than wing-backs. I think he was badly handled (see same with Coulson).
Perhaps he needed a long run in a system suited to him and a manager that trusts him. And maybe he has grown as a person, too.
We have seen what a change a year can make in a player. We all think Jones is the player of the month in December. Why the same couldn't have happened to Spence, too? Perhaps all he needed was a right manager and the correct system to play under.
One never knows about a young player. And they need luck and opportunity to play regularly!
I for one wouldn’t rule out a return to Boro for Spence. He could be a winner under Wilder. So we are lucky to have both Jones and Spence 😁.
Up the Boro!
I completely agree with Jarkko.
Spence burst onto the scene in Nov/Dec under Woodgate coinciding with that Manager of the Month award for JW. He and Coulson were sensational for that month or so as attacking wingbacks and I recall Jose Mourinho’s admiration of Spence following the cup tie with Spurs in the January.
As young players, their levels went up and down thereafter whilst playing in a chaotic side but the potential was clear.
Warnock didn’t trust either of them and seemed to focus on what they couldn’t do. NW’s mentality, like Pulis’, was to avoid defeat first and foremost and this didn’t fit with positive players like Spence.
So I think Spence and Coulson’s Boro career has been a mixture of promise in a shambolic setup followed by being distrusted and played out of position in an unsuitable setup.
Wilder has a much more positive approach where the team is setup to try and win rather than avoid defeat, and of course he plays wingbacks. It’s ideal for Coulson and Spence in theory.
That doesn’t mean that they’re definitely good enough or that they would want to return. It may be that that horse has bolted for them unfortunately and the same may go for Wing for which this Boro is also better suited.
To me, the whole episode is a bit of a shame really, a case of possibly having the right type of players on the cheap but at the wrong time. A similar story to when we had Fabio and Cyrus Christie under Monk but played defensive football and a back four. Sure enough, they wanted away too and were hastily moved on despite their obvious qualities.
I would like to see Coulson and Spence return in the summer - if they want to be here - and be assessed with fresh eyes that better understand what they have to offer.
That doesn’t mean that they’re definitely good enough or that they would want to return. It may be that that horse has bolted for them unfortunately and the same may go for Wing for which this Boro is also better suited.
Sadly, I think this horse has bolted. Say we get promoted then Wing and Coulson are definitely not getting anywhere near the first team while I think we just have to cash in on Spence regardless. If we don't get promoted then unless they dramatically turn around their form at their loan clubs then Wing and Coulson are just going to sink down the leagues until they find a level.
So Andy you say we were playing the Eric Morecambe style of football?
We had all the right players but not necessarily playing at the right time?
OFB
The feedback from Wednesday fans on Wing is not exactly glowing at the moment and until Coulson starts earning rave reviews from Ipswich I can't see either of them getting into a Boro first 11 any time soon.
Fair play to Spence, he has gone and proved himself to be a half decent player. I use the term "half decent" because as good as he is to watch I'm still not seeing an end product from his dribbles. In fairness the defensive side of his game does seem to have improved.
@redcarred. Exactly RR, you are echoing mine and Jarkko’s earlier post about Spence.
He is showing the form he displayed in his early games at Boro, lots of energy and speed, lots of step overs but no end product. Defensively he looks to have improved albeit still not the strongest and I think he is one of those players who can be error prone and are likely to cost you a few goals.
As Deleriad has said, we probably have to cash in on Spence at the end of the season. 😎
Press stories that Darren Randolph is on his way to Villa, on loan, to be back up keeper; CoB get in there and make him our number 1 as we would then have more chance of top six. 😎
@k-p-in-spain At the age of 34 (and 35 in May), I think the ship has sailed for Randolph at Boro. He chose to sit on the bench with the luxory of a premier league wages. Does he still feature for the Irish National team?
I agree with OFB that we should give a chance for Sol Brynn now when is back from playing at Queen of the South in Dumfries.
OK, Dimi was good in his late 30's but Boro seems to hire younger players, now. Pity that Randolph wanted to go as he was really good. But it was his chose.
Up the Boro!
It was a Scotsman William McGregor who introduced an English Football League in 1888 and was made up of 6 clubs from Lancashire and 6 from the Midlands, and this is how the LEAGUE finished at the end of that inaugural season:-
Preston 40 pts 2 Lgewins latest 1890, 2 CUP wins latest 1938.
Villa——29. 7 Lge wins latest 1981, 7 CUP wins latest 1957
Wolves -28. 3 Lge wins latest 1959, 4 CUP wins latest 1960
Blackburn26. 3 Lge wins 3 latest 1995, 6 CUP wins latest 1891
Bolton—22. Never won LEAGUE, 4 CUP wins latest 1958
W.Brom-22. 1 LEAGUE win 1920, 5 CUP wins latest 1968
Accrintn 20. Never won either
Everton-20. 9 Lge wins latest 1987, 5 CUP wins latest 1995
Burnley-17. 2 Lge wins latest 1960, 1 CUP win in 1914
DERBY—16. 2 Lge wins latest 1975, 1 CUP win in 1946
Notts.Cty12. 1 CUP win in 1894
Stoke. 12 Never won either
If McGregor was alive to day I wonder what he would make of the influx of London clubs especially currently standing at 12 also with 6 of them in the Premier League and the possibility of 2 more next season? Too many in my opinion! All these clubs bar Accrington and Notts County were First Division members in the early years when I first started watching football (incidentally Newcastle and Tottenham were in the Second Division then) but at this moment only Villa, Wolves, Everton and Burnley remain. It just shows that past glories count for nothing today yet upstarts like both Manchester clubs, Liverpool, Arsenal and Spurs with money have taken their places which is not good for the future of football in this country.
The definition of the word LEAGUE is maybe not as strong as the word UNION these days, but nevertheless suggests a collection of people, groups, regions or countries that co-operate in friendliness with each other. I’ve highlighted Derby County as one of the stalwarts from the 19th century, and I certainly wouldn’t like to see them fall by the wayside through the fault of one man’s corruptness.