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January Transfer wi...
 

January Transfer window

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Ken Smith
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Only the great Severino Ballesteros was able to defy the laws of physics and geometry, but of course he intended to do it, whilst Rudi Gestede’s missed header was purely unintentional.


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Original Fat Bob
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Harry Wilson form Fulham met with The gaffer this morning and trained with Boro.

OFB


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lenmasterman
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Thanks Bob.  That would be a coup. I assume a loan deal is in the offing as Wilson would be well beyond our transfer budget.


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exmil
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Posted by: @original-fat-bob

Harry Wilson form Fulham met with The gaffer this morning and trained with Boro.

OFB

Would Wilson be allowed to train with Boro whilst still being a Fulham player and no loan deal agreed, I am thinking about the risk of injury 🤔.

Come on BORO.


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deleriad
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Posted by: @original-fat-bob

Harry Wilson form Fulham met with The gaffer this morning and trained with Boro.

OFB

'fraid this looks like it comes from a wind-up merchant on twitter.


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Original Fat Bob
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@deleriad 

let’s see what happens

OFB


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lenmasterman
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It would actually make some sense in that Wilson is still on the way back from a serious knee ligament injury and is unlikely to get much of a look-in at Fulham given their current form and the way their wide players are performing.  Wilson needs, above all else, game time to get himself fit and show whether he still has the pace  to be the player he was pre-injury.

So I wouldn't dismiss this rumour out of hand.

Wilson is likely to be loaned out somewhere.  The interesting question is whether he will come back as anything like the player he was.  His disappointing showing in the World Cup with Wales suggests he still has a long and arduous road ahead.

If he is training with the Boro it's an open question as to whether he would be a significant addition to the squad.

On the other hand a genuine right winger would be more than welcome at the moment.

Putting him through his paces and assessing his fitness would be an essential prerequisite for any club considering taking him on loan.

Perhaps that is what is happening under cover at the moment.

All speculation, of course, but it makes some sense to me.

And if Wilson is still struggling with his knee, we may not hear anything about it through the media.


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jarkko
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Boro are closing in on the signing of Rotherham United midfielder Dan Barlaser.

A deal is understood to have been agreed between the clubs and Boro are confident of finalising the signing ahead of Tuesday night's transfer deadline.

https://www.thenorthernecho.co.uk/sport/23280376.middlesbrough-closing-rotherham-midfielder-dan-barlaser/

Up the Boro!


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jarkko
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I remember a disco ball from my youth. Every dancing place had one in the 1980's.

But what is a Bar laser? A similar ball with laser lights ...

Ok, I will get my coat. Up the Boro!

This post was modified 15 hours ago by jarkko

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Forever Dormo
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@jarkko - The player has a Turkish father and has played for Turkey at youth age-group levels (though I think  more recently he has also played in England age-group teams)..  I guess his name must therefore be a Turkish name rather than having an English or British history or meaning.

Many surnames in the UK have an "employment" element.  So that if, 800 years ago in a village you wanted to talk about someone (let's say his name was William or John which would have been popular Christian names then, so there might be several Williams or Johns in the village), you would identify him by talking about William the shepherd or William who makes or feathers arrows, or William who is a farrier or a blacksmith, or who made clothes like a Tailor.  Eventually those names stuck to the family so you had family names (Shepherd, Fletcher, Smith or Taylor in the examples I have given).  There are also names that come from the father - "son-of", so in England Johnson (John's son), Williamson, Harrison etc, or in Scotland or Ireland Mc or Mac or O', as in McDonald or McIvor or O'Neill; or in Wales Mab or Map.

But lasers were invented centuries too late for that to have been an explanation in the case of Barlaser.  As I said, it must have some Turkish origin and mean something in that language....


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Martin Bellamy
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@forever-dormo Would they have been “Christian” names 800 years ago? Then, and now, I prefer forename.


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exmil
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Boro have agreed a fee of £900k with £600k add ons, subject to Barlaser medical.

Come on BORO.


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Forever Dormo
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@martin-bellamy - They would CERTAINLY have been Christian names 800 years ago. Then (in 1223) virtually everyone in England would have been a Christian and, obviously at that time Roman Catholics. There had been a small Jewish population but there were massacres in London in 1189 and York in 1190 and they were expelled from the Kingdom under Edward I in 1290.

Many people believed that England had an entirely Pagan population in the days after the Romans left (in a few waves in the late 300s AD but in a major way when many officials and most troops returned to Europe to "protect Rome" in 410AD).  Those people believed that St Augustine of Canterbury, who was sent by Pope Gregory the Great in 595AD to Christianise the Pagan kingdoms in Kent and the south of England, was the founder of the Christian religion in England, but that is wrong. Those Kingdoms in the south and the east of England were Anglo-Saxon Kingdoms and the invaders from Jutland, Frisia and the North Sea Coast of what is now Germany WERE predominantly Pagan. But what the Pope and Augustine intended was to convert the King(s) following which mass-conversions/baptisms took place.  "If Christianity is good enough for My Lord the King, then I (wanting to curry favour in Court) will profess my loyalty to his faith....".

But in reality, whatever the Venerable Bede** ("Father of English History") would have us believe when he wrote the Ecclesiastical History of the English Church in about 731AD, the Christian Faith had already taken root in England, Wales, Scotland and Ireland long before Augustine set foot in Kent.  In fact that was the case in the 300s AD. When Constantine the Great came to Britain to fight alongside his father Constantius I and when his father died, with the support of his troops in England Constantine "took the Purple" in 306AD and marched through Europe to defeat his various rivals for the Imperial Throne - he reigned with co-emperors*** or rivals from 306 to 324 and, after the defeat of his last rival, he was sole Emperor until he died in 337AD. The significance of this is that he converted from Paganism to Christianity. In about 310AD as he led his army against a rival, Maxentius in Italy, it is said he had as his symbol the "Chi-Rho" the Greek first letters of Christos, and the coins he later issued bore the same cypher.  In 313AD he was responsible for an Edict that legitimised the Christian religion throughout the Empire and outlawed Christian persecution. He started out a Pagan but became a Christian (I dare say people might now be a little "squeamish" - to be neutral about it - as to how he operated as an Emperor but they were rather different times).

Constantine was responsible for convening the Council of Nicea in 325AD at which the Nicene Creed was agreed - it is said by Catholics and Church of England alike and contains many phrases which summarise the Christian faith and which even non-believers may remember from their childhood ("I believe in one God, the Father Almighty, Maker of Heavan and Earth...")

       ** Forgive the language but I quote Lance from "The Detectorists" where he says: 

        "Venerable Bede.... Full of shit!"

       *** In those times there were FOUR Emperors, an Augustus in the West & an Augustus

         in the east, and their juniors, (Caesars) who hoped in due course to succeed and become

         an Augustus.

But ignoring Constantine, it is clear that there WERE groups of Christians in England much earlier than Augustine arrived because the town of St Albans is named after Alban (who had converted to Christianity and was martyred after protecting a priest at some time in the 3rd Century, maybe about 250AD). It is clear when Roman rule existed in England & Wales there were several different belief structures in existence. There were no doubt some who held on to ancient Celtic beliefs (Druidism etc) in addition to people following tradititonal Roman gods (Mars, Jupiter etc) and other belief-systems from Roman times such as following Mithras as well as those who followed the "new" Christian Faith.

When Angles/Saxons/Jutes came into England and southern Scotland in the couple of hundered years or so after 410AD (though there were, of course, some already over here before then) and when the Vikings came over starting in 793AD, they were ORIGINALLY Pagan.  But despite subsequent changes of religion we still have regular reminders of those Pagan gods worshipped by the Angles/Vickings etc when we look at the calendar - Tuesday named after the god of war Tiw (even if he does sound a bit Welsh!), Wednesday named after Woden and Thursday named after the god of thunder Thor and Friday after the goddess of fertility Frey.

But even in those centuries after the Romans left, and much of eastern, central and southern England and the south east of Scotland were taken over by the Anglo-Saxon culture, Christianity remained in the West, in those areas of Wales, the south-west of England, Cumbria and the Clyde in Scotland where Christianity - Celtic Christianity - continued.  It was only in 664AD after the Synod of Whitby that King Oswui (or Oswy) of Northumbria decided to follow the Roman Catholic way of calculating the date of Easter rather than the Celtic way, and even many years after that the Celtic Churches continued.  Traditionally it is held that in 461 St Patrick (some say from Wales!) arrived in Ireland to convert the people to Christianity and in 563AD St Columba arrived from Ireland to found a monastery on the west coast of Scotland on the island of Iona and subsequently travelled with followers throughout Scotland and Northumbria to spread the Gospels. And St David was born, approximately in 500AD but during his life became Bishop of Mynyw (now known as the City and Cathedral of St Davids in Wales) before dying on 1st March 589AD - dates so far back are notoriously "elastic".

St David is also known to have been an eloquent arguer against Pelagianism - regarded as heresy in the Chuch at that time - and Pelagius was a philosopher from Britain living about 355 to 420AD, whose beliefs began to spread throughout Europe until the Council of Carthage held in 418AD ruled those beliefs heretical.

All of which is a circuitous way of saying that Christianity was well-rooted in England & Wales (as well as Ireland and Scotland) BEFORE St Augustine got off his boat in Kent in 595AD, and certainly many centuries before the 1200s. They were intolerant times. By the late 11th C, virtually everybody in these islands would have considered themselves Christian - Roman Catholics to be precise because that was, of course, long before the Reformation. The Christitian religion would have pervaded almost every facet of everyday life in the medieval period.  The Church and the Monasteries and Abbeys were the centre (in Great Britain) of belief, charity and education as well as medicine (nuns being amongs the first nurses). Ignoring (if we can) the wars perpetrated by those believing it to be necessary to their faith, in the Holy Land crusades or whatever, architecture, relief of the Poor and the arts generally (think of the beautiful Gospels for example) were all a symbol of that religion. I suspect rather imperfectly followed through, but almshouses etc were created and hospitals founded as part of that religious belief. 

But even more than that, the weeks of medieval folk would have been dominated by their Christianity with dates being recorded by Saints' Days rather than "13th August" etc.  So when Henry V urges on his troops before the Battle of Agincourt on 25th October 1415, he says "...and gentlemen in England now a-bed   Shall think themselves accurs'd they were not here,    And hold their manhoods cheap whiles any speaks   That fought with us upon St Crispin's Day".  Because people then would KNOW when St Crispin's Day was, just as other dates in the year would be dates on which certain tasks on the farm would be undertaken - like Lammastide, or the fact that ploughing fields would usually start after Lady Day (25th March), most of the grain processing would be completed by Michaelmas (29th September which was the start of the financial year and when debts, rents etc should be paid) and Martinmas (11th November) would be the time to slaughter and salt meat to provide for the cold months ahead. Whitsun and Easter would then have been more significantly observed than now.

So, yes, this would have been almost exclusively a Christian country 800 years ago. The way the people SHOWED or LIVED their Christian lives might have made people raise their eyebrows now, of course.  But it was a Christian country and the names would have been known as Christian names. They were always referred to as Christian Names when I was at school and even after that. If I asked my mother or my father what my Christian Name was, they'd have had no doubt it was the name they had chosen for me whan my birth was registered or when I was baptised.  Mind you, I feel as old as Edward I.   Equally, in these more diverse times, one could say William Thompson has "William" as his FORENAME or his GIVEN NAME rather than a Christian name, and "Thompson" as his FAMILY name or SURNAME.

      


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Martin Bellamy
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@forever-dormo Thanks for the history lesson - all those facts based on a myth. 😉

I was “christened” as a child, much like everyone else in the 50s. My children weren’t, as we figured they could make that decision themselves when they were old enough. Most official forms now seem to eschew “Christian” names in favour of forenames, which seems appropriate given that the latest census shows a continued decline in the number of people who identify as having a defined faith or religion. 


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Forever Dormo
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@martin-bellamy - You are right that the latest Census showed as reduction in people identifying as Christian.  God forbid there should be a war because, if there were to be one, the number of people who suddenly become religious would rocket!  And I doubt most in the UK would declare as Wiccans.

Some of the stuff is myth.  But we can't argue that Constantine the Great, hauled into the throne of Empire in York, became a Christian, legitimised the religion throughout the Roman Empire, and that there were many Christians in England, Scotland, Wales & Ireland before St Augustine (I accept there have been A FEW St Augustines over the centuries, so let's say St Augustine of Canterbury) put his feet onto dry land in England.  I can't imagine people calling it a Christian name NOW, in officaldom, in the UK. But if I go to the pub tonight and ask someone his Christian name, he'll have no difficulties understanding what I mean.  Maybe in 40 years or so it will be different.


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Original Fat Bob
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@forever-dormo 

 

@forever-dormo 

 

I don’t know about asking what their Christian name is, nowadays people don’t know what gender they are !

OFB


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Pedro de Espana
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@forever-dormo   A couple of excellent posts there Dormo. History is full of myths and truths, some that cannot be proven either way. However very interesting posts and an aside to the day to day football.


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Powmill-Naemore
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@forever-dormo 

What a fabulous post F-D and response MB.

History is, of course, handed through the generations by whosoever has the power to hand it on. All the same, until more recent generations in the British Isles the power has rested with the Christian churches and everyone's name was given and recorded in Baptism in the parishes the length and breadth of the country. In historical context, regardless of the truth of historical facts or myths, the name given in Baptism was indeed a Christian name.


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Forever Dormo
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I don't really know why I dived into Constantine the Great and Christian history in pre-Reformation Britain - save to say that Constantine is, sort of, one of my heroes (let's be honest, right up there as one of the Greatest Roman Emperors) and I agree with Lance in "The Detectorists". Bede was one of the earliest and most important, maybe THE most important, ecclesiastical historian these islands have ever produced BUT not everything he wrote should be taken as (if I may say) Gospel. History is written by the winners. He wanted to have a history in which the Angles won Rome's Christian victory in Britain.  Of course his Northumbria then ran from Hull and the Humber (maybe a little bit south of that) to the lowlands of Scotland and even to Edinburgh itself.  I'm not saying he was ANTI Celtic Christianity and the part it played in the western part of Britain but....

I mean, not even a single drink had passed my lips....  No!  Really!

Anyway!  Enough of that. On to Saturday's big game against Watford.  Some of us have our fingers and all available extremities crossed for luck.  A win and anything is possible.  I am hoping.  We all know, as Adrian Chiles has often said, it is the hope that gets you in the end. I am sure he first said this at least as long ago as 2011 but I see Ted Lasso said the same in a TV show I didn't watch, aired in October 2020.  Silver medal, Ted?

This post was modified 3 hours ago 2 times by Forever Dormo

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