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Burnley v Boro
 

Burnley v Boro

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jarkko
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@forever-dormo Nice to hear you do some regular exercises, mate. Six minutes walk and 0,3 miles to the local and back keeps you fit.

Up the Boro!


   
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Powmill-Naemore
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Posted by: @original-fat-bob

@powmillnaemore

Snowman brilliant 🤩

Snow joke if we lose !

Of course we all know the difference between a snowman and a snow woman don’t we ?

❄️❄️ 

OFB

That snow joke OFB


   
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Ken Smith
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But if there were additional points awarded for goals scored, we wouldn’t have these silly idioms used in the first place. Just imagine if Boro needed to score x number of goals in their final match of the season to obtain promotion against an already relegated side or even if they needed say 7 points from their last two matches, the possibilities could be endless. For one thing playoffs could and should be abolished. It can’t be right that a side finishing 6th in the table should have an equal opportunity of promotion as a side finishing 3rd. Yes I’ve heard all the arguments about it extending the season for more clubs, but extra points for larger wins would do that in any case.

End of season playoffs are inequitable anyway. In my opinion it’s akin to tennis where a player is given a second serve to clear the net. If a golfer misses a putt, a snooker player misses his pot , a rugby player misses his conversion, or a footballer misses his penalty kick, he is not given a second chance by the referee, how could that be fair? Perhaps the next step will be having the Championship winners having to play the runners-up to determine the real champions as happens in many American sports.  Maybe as best of three matches or why not even the best of any odd number, the possibilities are endless. 

That’s where Test cricket is stealing a march over other sports. Positivity and proactivity, instead of negativity and reactivity. But here is an example which I’ve just uncovered from the Liverpool Echo relating to the 1927/28 football season and the 5th of May 1928? It must have been a wretched day for being a Boro fan. George Camsell had just scored 59 of Boro’s 122 goals in the previous season’s promotion season as Everton had avoided relegation to the Third Division North by the skin of their teeth a year earlier. Camsell of course was England’s centre forward and had just also scored 18 times in only 9 matches and relishing the future as England’s main striker for the following season.

On that fateful day off he 5th of May Boro’s visitors were Sunderland, and all Boro needed to do was not to lose against the Mackems to preserve them from relegation and to some extent preserve Camsell’s record of his  future as England’s centre forward.  In fact Boro had never been in the bottom two all season, but despite being urged  on by Ayresome Park’s highest gate of the season of 42,000, typically Boro lost 0-3 and were relegated with 37 points (then of course only 2 points for a win), yet only a handful of points separated them outside the top six despite Camsell scoring ONLY 33 more goals in that season. What’s even more galling is that Sunderland avoided relegation, and that Everton were crowned Champions for the 3rd time, but Boro did regain their First Division status in the following season. 

Not withstanding that though was the fact that Dixie Dean should break George’s record on that same fateful day of Boro’s relegation, by recovering from a serious injury. Everton had already won the League title before their final  match of the season, but Dean knew that a hat trick was required to beat George’s 59 goal haul in the previous season, and of course he did so despite a 3-3 draw at home to Arsenal in that final fixture of that season. I’m not certain, but I think that George Camsell never played for England again, and although Dixie Dean equalled Camsell’s England scoring record of 18 goals at the time, it did take him twice as many appearances as Camsell had taken. 

Of course I would have preferred Dean not to have succeeded if I had been alive at the time, but his attitude cannot be faulted, maybe the equivalent of today’s Ben Stokes or Kevin Sinfield in today’s world.  Positivity and proactivty, which I know something about in my latter years, against negativity although with a touch of reactivity. Not a typical Christmas Day for yours truly this year, no Enid now to cuddle any more, no Christmas meal out of the ordinary, no Christmas decorations to put up as I can hardly stand let alone walk, no car any more as I knew instinctively when I became unfit to drive for myself and for other road users, and in any event bowel incontinence sometimes occurs when completely unexpected. We come into this world incontinent and unfortunately sometimes leave it with the same complaint.

However there are some benefits as although I won’t have to concern myself with doing any Christmas shopping or posting out any cards, as I nave a good deal with Virgin at the moment where all my telephone calls within the UK are completely free, so I shall just phone my family and friends over the Christmas holidays. They do say that it’s good to talk, though my chats with Enid so far.
 have proved to be one sided despite my describing what is happening on the cricket field or golf course as if she is in the same room. Enid didn’t care much for footballl,  although she is did accompany he to Wembley Stadium at least  four times for a Rugby League Cup Final, but there again she was a Cas lass and her cousin played at Wembley in one of those finals so I wouldn’t expect anything less.

  I do hope that some of my conversations with her don’t interrupt her beauty sleep as she regularly went to bed at 10 pm where as I’m a night owl and rarely go to bed before 1.30 am, and I haven’t had my supper yet. So good night to all you sleepy heads, and as Dave Allen used to end his shows  “Good night, and may your God go with you!”


   
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Ken Smith
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Yep, I may be eccentric but I’m still alive, although may not be alive and kicking. But I’m still alive to tell the tale, and my carer from Age Concern says I’m a good reconteur


   
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@ken 

It is a good job you don't live in Oz as the playoffs/finals are seen as the most important part of the season. So much so that the league winners in all codes are known as minor premiers. In the AFL the minors get no prize money but the grand final winners get $1.2 million. In the NRL the premiers get $100000. If you finish in the top four out of the eight finals teams you get a second chance as well. 1 plays 2 and 3 plays 4 in the first round, the loser plays the winners of 5 v6, or 7 v8 so get a second chance. There has also been a huge outcry here as the A league has proposed that their grand final should be played in Sydney for the next 3 years, so at a neutral venue, whereas now one team would have home field advantage.


   
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Ken Smith
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@mw-in-darwin 

I’m not surprised, but what do the Aussies or Yanks know about soccer or cricket for that matter? It was the British who invented all the major sports in the world, including rugby, golf and even baseball and probably if they had their own way maybe even the football World Cup may be settled with a series of best of three or any odd number of matches to decide the true champions of the   World. The Yanks even have the gall to describe their sports as World Series when it is played exclusively in the USA whilst Britain has tradition. The Aussies meanwhile don’t even class Rugby League as a national sport but prefer to concentrate on Queensland v New South Wales as their state of origin series. But even that is under threat as many Aussies are contemplating switching over to American football instead. Aussie Rules seems to be the major sport in Australia at the moment at the moment, but maybe things are a changing now as football and Test cricket have now established themselves as the two major sports in the World. 

It’s now approaching 4 am in the UK and I’m still downstairs contemplating a good night’s sleep, but even late in bed for yours truly at the moment. A pity that it isn’t Saturday morning yet, as I might well be tempted to watch some of the cricket from Karachi instead of going to bed. Not enough hours in he day for me at the moment.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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This post was modified 4 months ago 2 times by Ken Smith

   
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Posted by: @ken

End of season playoffs are inequitable anyway.

I used to think that at first but have come around to a different way of thinking. To get promoted through the play-offs you have to both show consistent ability to come 3-6 then win the equivalent of a 2-legged cup match and a cup final. A team that does that shows it can both perform at a good level over the long term and handle the pressure of winning a cup. 

I sometimes think that league one and two plus the best of non-league should be divided into 4 regional leagues with 16 teams per league then the top 4 from each league going into a world-cup style mini-league then knock out cup to determine who is promoted. E.g. both the teams who make it to the final are promoted with a 3rd-4th place play off for the final spot. 

Making the leagues regional would reduce costs for teams and fans and emphasise local derbies. 


   
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Ken Smith
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I’m all in favour of regional leagues to cut travelling costs for clubs and fans alike. That’s how football started with the Third Division split between North and South Divisions on an equal footing. In fact the regional leagues still operate that way in the pyramid system, the envy of the World. Nevertheless football is not all about the Premier League and Championship. Just after the First World War the Southern League were promoted almost en masse to form the Third Division South whilst the Northern League (the second oldest league in the World) had competition from both codes of rugby. The original First Division consisted of 12 clubs all from Lancashire and the Midlands. Woolwich Arsenal even borrowed shirts from Nottingham Forest to get started. Today there are far too many clubs from London, so why should they have so many clubs playing local derbies in the Premier League that they only need to play outside of the City in a quarter of their fixtures.

Too much emphasis is directed on the Premier League and Championship today on a sport that is supposed to be England’s national sport. Despite being a Boro fan all my life, I’ve almost attended as many reserve matches, amateur and junior matches as I have in visiting Ayresome Park, not quite as many as I have always recorded Boro matches in my diaries, but not so with other sports such as cricket, golf, speedway and rugby league. 

Nevertheless if football league points were adjusted to include goal differences also how much more open that would change league tables in the long run with goals galore coming to the fore as they did in the 50s and 60s. In rugby a try is an attempt to convert a better chance of converting it into a goal. How boring is that! Little wonder that some rugby matches were decided on field goals instead of tries or attempts at conversions. I once watched Middlesbrough RUFC beat Redcar RUFC 3-0 one Boxing Day morning. I’ve watched more exciting chess or dominoes matches than that particular match. Could football be any better with points awarded for draws especially goalless ones at the moment? No is my answer to that rhetorical question! Bring back the excitement into football with 5-4 and 4-3 wins into vogue instead of a succession of 1-1 draws draws or even goalless ones. Too late in my lifetime I suppose now, but let’s smell the coffee as they say now before we all fall asleep with boredom.

This post was modified 4 months ago by Ken Smith

   
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@ken - I see the point of rewarding goals scored and, yes, that might lead to more attacking and entertaining football.  Of course if the leagues had been awarding points for goals in addition to just for a draw or a win, that would have led to interesting league tables in the past: imagine if that had been in effect in 1962 when former Scottish Youth International Jimmy Gauld asked Sheffield Wednesday player David Layne to identify matches that could be "nobbled" to enable a betting coup to take place, and Laye suggested Wednesday were likely to lose their next game against Ipswich Town on 1st December and suggested to fellow players Peter Swann and Peter Kay that they make sure that was, in fact, the case.  Laye, Swann & Kay all bet against their team in the match that Ipswich won 2-0.  (Funnily enough Swann was MoM that game!)

The same day Lincoln's game against Brentford and Oldham's game against York City were also nobbled.  And in 1963 Harltepool's Ken Thompson admitted in the Sunday People (newspaper) that he had bet with Gauld's syndicate that his team would lose to Exeter City.  Gauld was identified as the person behind the scheme and, perhaps surprisingly, sold his story for £7,420 to the very same Sunday People in 1964.

Eventually Gauld was prosecuted and, as ringleader, was sentenced to 4 years imprisonment in 1965 and  several other players including Layne, Swann & Kay were also imprisoned and banned from football.  Thirty three players were prosecuted in total (fun fact - that is the number of the allied Spanish & French fighting ships of the line which fought in the Battle of Trafalgar in 1805, 21 of which were captured by the Royal Navy with 1 destroyed whilst Nelson & Collingwood's fleet of 27 ships lost NONE).

I can imagine high scoring draws might come under suspicion and attention would be paid to suspcious movements in those legendary far-eastern betting companies.  Really, what is football doing, being sponsored by betting companies?

There were LOTS of high scoring games in previous decades in English football.  Imagine a team were to draw 6-6. Points for both teams...  I suppose it might be possible to have a system where there are 3 points for a win, and 1 each for a draw as at present, & to give bonus points not for goals scored in a particular game but over a season?  Maybe a point for 50+ goals, 2 for 60+, 3 for 70+, 4 for 80+, 5 for 90, and a maximum of 6 points for 100+ ?

Having said all that (good for a bar room discussion) I have seen very exciting 0-0 draws.  And a thumping good tackle that raises the crowd to its feet, or a backs-to-the-wall defensive display can be as good as a high-scoring game.  So why change something that seems to be working OK?


   
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Martin Bellamy
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@forever-dormo It’s always noticeable (to me anyway) that there are lots of high scoring games over the festive period. It’s possible I could have imagined it but I don’t think I have. There are often a similar rise in the number of goals scored near the season end - it would be awful to miss out on promotion or to be relegated because other teams weren’t trying. 😉


   
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jarkko
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As we have about half a meter (other measurements available) of snow in here, I was wondering if there is a chance that the Burnley match can be posponed? Do they have a heated pitch at Turfmoor?

Already 10 EFL matches are off includind Luton vs. Millwall on Sunday. I will be watching the Boro match on Saturday rather than the Marocco vs. Croatia match in the WC.

Up the Boro!


   
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jarkko
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A good interview with Kieran Scott:

https://boro.support/msf-meets-kieran-scott-qa-12-12-2022/

I really enjoyed the interview and insights. Up the Boro!

This post was modified 4 months ago by jarkko

   
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Belated thanks OFB for your match intro. I have "sung" your song and Powmill's in my head as I didn't want the neighbours to think I had was in great pain and call an ambulance. I will be watching the Boro live stream tomorrow and have Morocco v Croatia on TV. I have watched all the World Cup matches apart from the one that clashed with the Boro v Luton. When England played France I was having my evening meal/wine at the hotel and although the game was on TV in the adjacent bar I just listened to the first half commentary, as Luton supporters were around the TV, before going to my room at half time. I have enjoyed the games though my interest tailed off a bit as there have been so many in a short period and even more once England were knocked out.    

It definitely looks like the toughest test for us so far with Burnley top in the last 6 home games with a better record than Boro's top place in the last 6 away games. As Burnley have the best goals scored and a good defensive record it will be a good result if we get a draw but not a great disaster should we lose considering the results since Carrick arrived as long as we get back to winning on Boxing Day. 

I am relearning how to survive without central heating as my gas boiler decided it was too cold to work on Thursday morning. I do have an electric fire in the lounge and a portable one but it can't compare with even having central heating on low throughout the house. I am used to wearing several layers rather than turning up the heating but I really miss having a shower. The earliest plumber's appointment I could get is for Sunday morning in order to return to the soft person I have become. A Boro win though would really warm me up.

 

This post was modified 4 months ago by David in Cumbria

   
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Posted by: @jarkko

As we have about half a meter (other measurements available) of snow in here, I was wondering if there is a chance that the Burnley match can be posponed? Do they have a heated pitch at Turfmoor?

Already 10 EFL matches are off includind Luton vs. Millwall on Sunday. I will be watching the Boro match on Saturday rather than the Marocco vs. Croatia match in the WC.

Up the Boro!

Burnley, being an ex Premiership team will have underground pitch heating as I think it is a requirement of Premiership teams 🤔. Also the forecast for Burnley is light rain showers all day and a temperature of +3 degrees.

Come on BORO.


   
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Ken Smith
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Two very interesting articles in the Northern Echo today. First and the most impressive is the story about Charlie Wyke,the former Sunderland striker whose heart stopped beating a couple of times whilst training with his Wigan teammates.There is a huge difference in facing death as a young footballer wondering if he will ever play again and having to face the prospect of never seeing his partner and young son again, and an old codger like me.

When my wife died I learned afterwards that although in some ways every birthday, wedding anniversary, Christmas and visit to Portugal was on her mind if this was to be the last time she might be enjoying such occasions. She never talked about it, but she knew instinctively that such occasions could in all probability be her last. I took out equity release on my home, so that we could spend a couple of weeks each summer staying in French Chateaux, and she used to thank me for those breaks and driving her to France every summer.

That confirmed to me that death was never far away from her thoughts, so I was not surprised that she had confided to her best friend that she wished that the “Good Lord would take her sooner rather than later”.I’m at that time of life when I realise also that death can’t be far away, but nevertheless want to put that responsibility on someone else rather than be of my own choice. Is it normal to believe in euthanasia for oneself, because there’s no turning back once that action has been decided upon. I’m certainly not afraid of dying, but am about going through the pain barrier. It’s a dilemma I face every Christmas, but nobody in ‘Paradise’ tells we what it is really like up there, and if any person were to whistle blow, it would certainly be Enid, bless her! 

The other article in today’s Northern Echo which I first discovered in the Liverpool Echo recently, and is about the friendly rivalry that existed between George Camsell and Everton’s Dixie Dean in the late 1920s. It is particularly highlighted by Boro historian Dr Tosh Warwick in his book to be released next year. Now if there is a God, I do hope that he will delay my departure until after
I have had the chance to read this book. Pity it’s not available for me to read over this boring Christmas holiday period, but would be fascinating reading matter for my 85th birthday in mid January. 


   
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Ken Smith
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Posted by: @ken

Two very interesting articles in the Northern Echo today. First and the most impressive is the story about Charlie Wyke,the former Sunderland striker whose heart stopped beating a couple of times whilst training with his Wigan teammates.There is a huge difference in facing death as a young footballer wondering if he will ever play again and having to face the prospect of never seeing his partner and young son again, and an old codger like me.

When my wife died I learned afterwards that although in some ways every birthday, wedding anniversary, Christmas and visit to Portugal was on her mind if this was to be the last time she might be enjoying such occasions. She never talked about it, but she knew instinctively that such occasions could in all probability be her last. I took out equity release on my home, so that we could spend a couple of weeks each summer staying in French Chateaux, and she used to thank me for those breaks and driving her to France every summer.

That confirmed to me that death was never far away from her thoughts, so I was not surprised that she had confided to her best friend that she wished that the “Good Lord would take her sooner rather than later”.I’m at that time of life when I realise also that death can’t be far away, but nevertheless want to put that responsibility on someone else rather than be of my own choice. Is it normal to believe in euthanasia for oneself? Because there’s no turning back once that action has been decided upon. I’m certainly not afraid of dying, but am about going through the pain barrier. It’s a dilemma I face every Christmas, but nobody in ‘Paradise’ tells we what it is really like up there, and if any person were to whistle blow, it would certainly be Enid, bless her! 

The other article in today’s Northern Echo which I first discovered in the Liverpool Echo recently, and is about the friendly rivalry that existed between George Camsell and Everton’s Dixie Dean in the late 1920s. It is particularly highlighted by Boro historian Dr Tosh Warwick in his book to be released next year.

Now if there is a God, I do hope that he will delay my departure until after I have had the opportunity to read this book. Pity that it is not due for publication until after my particulaly ‘boring’ Christmas holiday period, but perhaps might be on the shelves before my birthday in mid January.

This post was modified 4 months ago 5 times by Ken Smith

   
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Ken Smith
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Sorry, double post. Couldn’t be divine intervention, could it? Maybe “God is seen to be working his purpose out, and the time is drawing near” through one of his subjects Arthur Campbell Ainger who died in 1919

This post was modified 4 months ago 3 times by Ken Smith

   
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It's almost like I'm still suffering from this strange depersonalistion-derealistion disorder, brought on by a winter World Cup and mid-season break and the imminent arrival of Christmas. But it appears Boro are actually in action today against the league leaders, who have yet to lose on their own turf.

So thanks to OFB for his musical festive opener that is oozing with confidence and will hopefully keep the spirits lifted on Teesside as we hit the Clarets - I've already had a head start before the game having just returned from a neighbour's mulled wine and BBQ. The glow of optimism radiating from my cheeks should surely help to continue Boro's unbeaten run - though it may require a half-time nap!

Won't be attempting the simultaneous viewing of Croatia v Morocco this time - the third-place play-off is about as meaningless as fixtures go - can anyone actually remember who came third in the World Cup? Thought so!

This should be a good measure of where Boro are at this afternoon - should Boro win this one then I suspect Michael Carrick's side will emerge from under the radar as Championship promotion contenders.


   
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Today's first XI:

Image


   
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Crooks is left out because of a slight knock, as a precaution, they hope it’s nothing serious.

Come on BORO.


   
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Boro1 - 0 Sub Watmore from long misplaced Burnley backpass


   
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As Vic saw it:

WATMORE! The Ginger Messi. What a master stroke substitution. Slotted home after a Burnley man tried to keep the ball in play and hooked it behind his own defence for Watmore to surge through (1-0, 49mins)

🙂 

Watmore on for Forss.


   
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1 -1 Boo. Beaten at near post

This post was modified 4 months ago by David in Cumbria

   
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Burnley 2 - 1. We woke them up


   
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Seems I got out the prayer mat a wee bit too early!  🙁  Vic again:

Benson redeems himself after his blunder, curls inside post to level (1-1, 61 mins)

Benson obviously the "Burnley player who tried to keep the ball in play" just before Boro's goal.


   
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Posted by: @david-in-cumbria

Burnley 2 - 1. We woke them up

Double bugger, as Vic would say!  🙁


   
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Burnley 3  - 1!


   
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Posted by: @david-in-cumbria

Burnley 2 - 1. We woke them up

We certainly did!  Make that 3-1!  Triple bugger!!!


   
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Posted by: @stircrazy
Posted by: @david-in-cumbria

Burnley 2 - 1. We woke them up

We certainly did!  Make that 3-1!  Triple bugger!!!

The third was a Howson OG.  🙁


   
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