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Boro v Rotherham
 

Boro v Rotherham

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werdermouth
Site Creator
Joined: 6 years ago
Posts: 1415
 

@jarkko 

Interesting table and what it does show is that Boro have conceded twice as many goals as expected (15) but only scored one fewer than expected - so does that vindicate Chris Wilder in that errors have placed his team in the bottom three rather than at the top of the table?

Of course the table doesn't highlight whether some of the goals Boro conceded were out of the blue wonder strikes too - the truth is probably a combination of both defensive errors and wonder strikes - though Wilder has to take responsibility for picking an error-prone defence with perhaps McNair given too many chances.

btw

If you want your table to appear in your post or any other jpeg you've uploaded - once you've uploaded the file, click on the link (e.g. 20220922_075408.jpg in your case) and then paste the URL into your post. You can do this by clicking on 'edit', which I just did for you.

Alternatively, you don't need to upload an image to Diasboro if you can either open the image in a new browser tab, then just paste the actually URL of the image or click on 'copy image' (right mouse click option) and then paste into the post.

This post was modified 1 week ago 3 times by werdermouth

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jarkko
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Joined: 2 years ago
Posts: 1298
 
Posted by: @powmillnaemore
Posted by: @plato

...we for instance have not had a manager who would recognise a good player if his life depended on it. ...

Mogga?

No, @powmillnaemore, you are wrong. No question mark needed. Mogga was good in finding good players on the cheap. Proved at Blackburn,  too. Up the Boro!


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deleriad
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Joined: 2 years ago
Posts: 375
 
Posted by: @werdermouth

@jarkko 

Interesting table and what it does show is that Boro have conceded twice as many goals as expected (15) but only scored one fewer than expected - so does that vindicate Chris Wilder in that errors have placed his team in the bottom three rather than at the top of the table

We're up there with WBA... 

What this shows is that either our players are poor, or our system is poor or both. 

If xg says that you have a 60% chance of scoring a goal from in a certain position what it means is that an average striker playing against an average defence and keeper will score 6 times in 10 from there. When that striker is Duncan Watmore though he is so much worse than average when it comes to scoring goals that he'll be lucky to score 2 times in 10 from there. 

Likewise, xga says that average defenders would prevent a certain percentage of attempts on target by either blocking, closing down the angle and so on. We have played 10 teams and they have all found it easy to score against us so clearly the issue is the defenders.

This is why Wilder keeps saying that his 'system' isn't the problem. On a spreadsheet, we are top of the league. In the real world we're almost at the bottom. I think the reason for that is that players are being exposed by the system and made to look worse than they are.

There's a phrase about a "Potemkin Village" where something exists on paper but not in reality. Wilder's system is like that. Looks good on paper but is a disaster in reality. 

I *think* he is reluctantly accepting that. The match against Rotherham was all about him going back to basics and playing a fairly traditional 3-4-1-2 with the team staying compact. It was as dire to watch as the worst of Warnock but it served its purpose. I *hope* that after two weeks with most of his players, that we'll come back with a strong set of performances after the break.


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Pedro de Espana
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Joined: 2 years ago
Posts: 487
 

For my two penny worth and willing to admit to a limited understanding of football at the coaching level. However having watched football for many years like those on here I would say that I have a sufficient understanding to what is basically wrong with our team at the moment.
In my opinion.  😊

In deleriad’s good post above, he mentions Watmore as been poor in the “g” stats. That may be very true, but he is arguably our best forward and the goals he does score are generally from difficult chances.

However we are scoring enough goals that would probably have satisfied Wilder pre season.

Whilst the defence has taken a lot of flack for the goals scored against, I do believe that the midfield three are the weakest link. This is the biggest area that is letting us down. 

Howson was struggling at the latter half of last season, and why would anybody expect that to change. He gets caught on the ball and gets turned rather easily. Crooks also struggled in the second half and this has continued also.  Mowatt we would all agree I think has been a disappointment. Not sure where to place McNair.

The two wingbacks are probably asked to do far more work than should be expected due to the inadequacies of the midfield and I believe this has impacted on their performances.

So my argument is that the players are not good enough, is that personally or it is that they are not good enough for Wilder’s chosen system.

One thing we do know is that the personnel will not change until January. Therefore something else has to change or we will be stuck in the bottom three.


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Plato
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Joined: 2 years ago
Posts: 491
 

@pedro 

I believe that we are the owners of a fine training ground, with all the trimmings of physio. Indoor facilities, etc.

But I do not believe we have anyone who is interested or, permitted, to coach in the modern way. By that I mean coaching in depth, with the pitch marked out in the pattern that you wish to play, the positions that the various defenders, attackers, midfielders, should be in during an attack, or, for that matter, the defence. This is the norm in well run clubs and obviously calls for discipline during the match. Have our players that discipline? Answers on a postcard.       


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werdermouth
Site Creator
Joined: 6 years ago
Posts: 1415
 

@deleriad 

Basically what you're saying is that Boro are worse than the algorithm and Wilder needs to take a red pill and learn an unsettling life-changing truth if he wants to be the one - whether he can continue to dodge those slow-motion bullets is another matter...  


Original Fat Bob
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Joined: 2 years ago
Posts: 1704
 

I see Paul Warne has left Rotherham to join Derby County. Pity he couldn’t have left a few weeks earlier ! We might have won the game against them !

OFB


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Andy R
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Joined: 2 years ago
Posts: 937
Topic starter  

Just returning briefly to the “jobs for the boys” debate, I see that West Ham have installed Mark Noble as Sporting Director.

That's the sort of appointment that can be questioned I think as Noble will have no experience in that sort of position and would surely have not been offered it at any other club than West Ham. It’s like Boro making Woodgate or Downing our Chief Scout.

We haven’t done that.


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Powmill-Naemore
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Joined: 2 years ago
Posts: 692
 
Posted by: @jarkko
Posted by: @powmillnaemore
Posted by: @plato

...we for instance have not had a manager who would recognise a good player if his life depended on it. ...

Mogga?

No, @powmillnaemore, you are wrong. No question mark needed. Mogga was good in finding good players on the cheap. Proved at Blackburn,  too. Up the Boro!

QUite right Jarkko. The question mark was really directed to Plato asking his opinion, not me me asking a general question.


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Plato
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Joined: 2 years ago
Posts: 491
 

@andy-r 

Just to point out the difficulties of the football World, West Ham are a club on the rise, Big ground, in London, comfortable in the Prem. Not satisfied with an easy seventh place, want more. Is it likely that they have got it wrong? It will be interesting to watch. We seem to specialise in getting  it wrong, and we never miss.


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Andy R
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Posts: 937
Topic starter  

@plato 

There are parallels at the moment between ourselves and West Ham having both had higher than expected finishing positions last season and well below par starts this season.


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Ken Smith
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Joined: 2 years ago
Posts: 1768
 

Are Boro in a worse position than Yorkshire CCC regarding relegation? With 36 more matches to play one would hope not. With just one more County Championship match to play and a 15 point advantage over Warwickshire a draw and a couple of bonus points for batting or bowling the Tykes would be safe as long as they avoid defeat against Gloucestershire starting next Monday at Headingley. However having suffered 5 consecutive defeats and only the one win all season I’m not at all confident of their avoiding defeat. Nevertheless would it be such a tragedy if the Tykes were relegated? It all depends on the result of the proposed restructuring for next season with only one club being promoted, it would make promotion much more difficult. Also the infairness of the allowance of certain Test players to play for their counties when available but never Yorkshire or so it would seem.

 I have no qualms about Surrey winning the County Championship as they have the outstanding team of the year or that they outplayed Yorkshire this week, but  question why Ollie Pope and Ben Foakes were allowed to play for Surrey whilst Joe Root wasn’t released to play for Yorkshire nor will be for next week’s encounter with Gloucestershire. It probably wouldn’t have made any difference against Surrey but seems unethical in my eyes.

As for Boro their record of only 2 wins in 10 matches so far this season is only marginally better than Yorkshire’s. But as Yorkshire have found out failing to win matches can be habit forming, as it seems to have been for Boro in their last 18 matches. It’s difficult to forsee Boro even reaching the playoffs this season and that also puts into question whether I’ll be around to see them in the Premier League again as my health deteriorates now having decided to sell my car as I realise I’m now unfit to drive anymore.

Nevertheless personally I’ve been luckier  than most people certainly financially which has enabled me to visit well over 60 different countries and over a dozen different islands, not to mention almost every English, Scottish and Welsh county, but all good things must come to an end so no regrets except that my late wife has been unable to share all my experiences.

This post was modified 1 week ago 4 times by Ken Smith

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jarkko
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Joined: 2 years ago
Posts: 1298
 

It isn’t any easier for Paddy McNair away from Boro as Northern Ireland aim to end winless Nations League run.

Midfielder Paddy McNair says Northern Ireland must start turning performances into results as Ian Baraclough's men look to end their 14-game winless run in the Nations League.

Listen more at https://www.bbc.com/sport/av/football/62975668

Up the Boro!


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Forever Dormo
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Joined: 2 years ago
Posts: 302
 

@ken  -  To have had a long life, a long marriage, a (what I guess to have been reasonably) happy working career and education, and to have had the finances to be able to travel so extensively abroad AND in the UK, is a blessing many would have loved. That your physical health may not be very good at present is unfortunate but at least you have things to interest you - music and sport being the obvious ones - and a memory that seems much better than mine despite being, I guess, several years older than me. I for one, whilst not necessarily agreeing everything you write, enjoy reading your reflections and reminders/history peices so would be very sad if or when you stopped sending them.

 

 


Ken Smith
Mr
Joined: 2 years ago
Posts: 1768
 

Forever Dormo

Thanks for your kind words. Indeed I have had a charmed life but perhaps my overriding passion above all others has been the complete plays and works of Oscar Wilde which amount to 151 pieces of which I managed to buy in a second hand bookshop in Durham some 25 years ago. Admittedly some of these are a bit on the heavy side, but I also have been watching the DVDs of his plays 


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Forever Dormo
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Joined: 2 years ago
Posts: 302
 

@ken -  Oscar Wilde!  A bit left field (as I think the Americans say) but we in the UK, and Ireland I hope, are now a broad church and welcome different strands.

I was listening to a YouTube video (it was a good one and seemed well researched) in the last couple of days, about the Crimean War.  Leo Tolstoy was an artillery officer there, in Sevastopol, opposing the French and English (and, if I remember correctly, the Turks). Some of the giants of world literature were not simply hiding away at home, but involved in world events.


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Ken Smith
Mr
Joined: 2 years ago
Posts: 1768
 
Posted by: @ken

Forever Dormo

Thanks for your kind words. Indeed I have had a charmed life but perhaps my overriding passion above all others has been the complete plays and works of Oscar Wilde which amount to 151 pieces of which I managed to buy in a second hand bookshop in Durham some 25 years ago. Admittedly some of these are a bit on the heavy side but the book of some 1250 pages includes the full story of his four plays     ‘Lady Windermere’s Fan’ (written in 1892), ‘A Woman of No Importance’ (1893), ‘The Importance of Being Earnest’(1895) and ‘An Ideal Husband’ (also 1895, which ran for 124 appearances at London’s Haymarket Theatre, quite a feat in those days). The latter being a political drama also ran on Broadway and in Australia was also translated into French, German and Russian.

I also have DVD’s of these plays plus ‘The Picture of Dorian Gray’(1891). How I would love to have acted in any of his plays, or indeed the man himself in ‘Lillie’,  the story of the actress Lillie Langtry played by the beautiful Francesca Annis on London Weekend in 1978. But that’s another story and too late now.


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