Discussion Forum

Boro v Cardiff
 

Boro v Cardiff

104 Posts
21 Users
538 Likes
372 Views
Philip of Huddersfield
Member
Joined: 2 years ago
Posts: 239
 

All we heard pre season is the number of new players CW needed. Well he got virtually all he wanted apart from a top striker but it doesn’t matter as he’s produced a team which can’t defend.

McNair will never make a solid member of a back 3. How can he be chosen as a defender ahead of Dijksteel or even Bola ?

The team on paper is stronger than last season but are performing much worse.  CW  just keeps saying the team have played well in matches but not picked up the points - does he look at the goals conceded?
0-3 down at half time - pathetic- I wouldn’t mind if Cardiff were top of the table.

Although it’s still early in the season if there’s no improvement in results in the next few games,  then this season is going to be one big letdown and CW’s tenure will come under severe scrutiny.

If the crowd turn against you then your days are numbered.

Philip of Huddersfield 


Powmill-Naemore
Member
Joined: 3 years ago
Posts: 769
 

It'll be a miracle if we will do better than survive this season on our showing so far. Very disappointed with that showing tonight. We play ourselves into trouble, rather than playing ourselves into a genuinely threatening position.

Off to bed feeling very let down.


jarkko
Member
Joined: 2 years ago
Posts: 1408
 

At least we scored two nice goals in the second half. We were two different teams in each half. No tempo at all in the first half.

Dijksteel and Watmore were excellent when they came on for McNair and Mowatt. 

But we run out of time. We were veeeeeery slow in the first half. 

Up the Boro!


ReplyQuote
David in Cumbria
Member
Joined: 2 years ago
Posts: 205
 

Well that was a disaster. The 2 - 3 result only makes it look better on paper. Playing (better) in the last desperate 20 minutes is not good enough. If it had been last season I would probably have paid the £126 room only price plus £25 meals and £25 rail fare to get to the match so at least current inflation has made me think more sensibly. While it is still early in the season it looks like we have a weaker squad than last season (apart from Muniz and Giles, though I doubt his defensive ability as a wing back) and I am now just looking at whether we can establish ourselves in mid-table and avoid a relegation battle. My hopes that Wilder would bring his Sheffield United promotion credentials to the Boro have gone and I am thinking of Monk Mark 2.  

I will be at the Rotherham game on Saturday. Only £71 for the hotel room, and I am planning also to go to the Huddersfield in October as my final match for this year. Very disappointed with this season's start.

 


Pedro de Espana
Member
Joined: 3 years ago
Posts: 573
 

@david-in-cumbria At least you console yourself with not wasting all that money, unlike MFC that certainly look to have bought a number of duds.

Also poor KP flying in from Spain, all excited only to be let down with that. 

It will be interesting to see deleriad’s, werder’s and a few other’s post match comments.


PaulInBoro
Member
Joined: 2 years ago
Posts: 229
 

Oh dear that first half was a complete shambles, we have no idea what to do if a team comes with a plan to stop us playing, it looks more like its going to be a relegation scrap over a promotion push, a little dramatic, but that was just a mess


PaulInBoro
Member
Joined: 2 years ago
Posts: 229
 

Just to add I think that is the worst 45 minutes of football I have seen us play in a long time


ReplyQuote
lenmasterman
Member
Joined: 2 years ago
Posts: 470
 

I've been a supporter of Chris Wilder and have appreciated the fact that since he arrived the Boro have tried to play the kind of progressive attacking football that we have been deprived of for too long as Boro fans.

But a couple of weeks ago in a post-match interview Wilder contrived to insult his entire squad by describing them as unintelligent.  It was a jaw-dropping moment. And one of the least intelligent public statements I'd ever heard from a manager.

 I thought at the time that it was the kind of thoughtless off-the -cuff comment that could have dire consequences for the immediate future of the team and the entire club. 

After all, what could be less motivating for any employee, let alone all of them, in any context than to be publicly labelled as thick by your boss?

Would you give of your best to such a person?  Strain every sinew? Run through walls? Go above and beyond the line of duty in the way that is a basic requirement in professional sport ?

For me, the implicit answer to those rhetorical questions was on display in the first half of tonight's game. You might call it the revenge of the D stream.  "We're dumbos. What else do you expect?"  As unmotivated, de-energised, negative and uncommitted a display as I have ever seen by any Boro team. A performance giving the boss due notice that his job and his future lie not in his own hands, but in the  actions of the collective.  The disrespected, and thoroughly cheesed-off collective at that.

 

 

 

 


Powmill-Naemore
Member
Joined: 3 years ago
Posts: 769
 

@lenmasterman Quite right Len. I also squirmed when he said that and I actually thought to myself he is actually beginning to work his way out of the job and possibly wishing he had leapt at the Burnley opportunity while they were still in the Premiership.


jarkko
Member
Joined: 2 years ago
Posts: 1408
 
Posted by: @paulinboro

Just to add I think that is the worst 45 minutes of football I have seen us play in a long time

Yes, it was terrible in the first half. As I have said, the club should never be in a position that 12 or 13 players are needed in one window.

Karanka did that after the promotion, Monk did it after the relagation and now we have done it again this summer. When shall we learn not going from one manager style to another. Both Pulis and Warnock signed battlers or old heads, now we like skill and passing talent. We are not that experienced, too.

I still think we signed some good players like Muniz,  McGree,  Giles and Clarke. But especially Clarke as well as most of the new lads need time to bed in.

On paper the match was not so bad but the first half performance was terrible from every single player - perhaps Roberts and Muniz earned some creditability.

I have attached some info of yesterday's match. As said on average not that bad but the first half was. Hopefully we learn.

Up the Boro!

This post was modified 3 months ago 4 times by jarkko

Liked by 5 people: werdermouth, David in Cumbria, deleriad, Malcolm and Andy R
 
ReplyQuote
Ken Smith
Mr
Joined: 2 years ago
Posts: 1900
 

I noticed that the attendance at Charlton v Forest Green Rovers was recorded as  10 spectators both by Sky and the BBC. Have I missed something here? Was the Valley penalised recently due to crowd trouble and presumably the 10 spectators all being from Gloucestershire?


Liked by Malcolm
ReplyQuote
K P in Spain
Member
Joined: 2 years ago
Posts: 1442
 

Well I should have known what to expect, first attendance at the Riverside in three years but same outcome, another loss! Last time it was 0-3 to Derby.

Last night was a 75 minute embarrassment against a middle of the road Championship side who we made look far better than they are.

The two goals we scored should not be allowed to detract from what was an inept display. David hit the nail on the head when he correctly identified it as Monk part 2 performance.

When the most supportive and vociferous part of the crowd starts to boo at half time, constantly comments about lack of application and a plan B, then it would appear that CW may be on borrowed time.

Len put it so well when he honed in on CW’s demotivating comments and that his future is no longer in his hands.

CW has been reported after the match as saying “There is an expectation level here, not always related to the quality of the squad in my opinion. It is a bigger issue than 45 minutes of football.”

Read into that what you will and who it was aimed at but clearly things are not as they should be at a club with top six aspirations.

On last night’s performance we are more likely to be fighting a relegation battle than promotion and you have to ask how has this come about so quickly and yet again! ☹️☹️😎

 


Malcolm
Member
Joined: 2 years ago
Posts: 497
 

No ifs or buts, boro are in a mess. Right from the recruitment team and Wilders backroom staff. What the hell does the manager say to his players before they appear on the pitch. Whatever it maybe most of the players are not listening. The first half was a shambles and embarrassing for a club of the stature of Middlesbrough.There must be rumblings behind the scenes again. Wilder hasn't looked happy for a few weeks now. Steve Gibson certainly not amused either at the end of the game.


Martin Bellamy
Member
Joined: 2 years ago
Posts: 653
 
Posted by: @ken

@werdermouth and Martin Bellamy

It’s not the fact that HRH has died, it’s the fact that she gave so much dedication to not only the Country but the Commonwealth also and to many she was the matriarch of the people for 70 years and respected as one of THE family  and deserves respect in this period of mourning by those whose life she had enlightened even though most have never actually met her.

The number of people especially sporting heroes who have met her are bereaved and genuinely speak lovingly about her. If people are nauseated by the attention that her death has received. then tough. I suppose the same people are nauseated by the attention that Jesus Christ receives to this day. Let people mourn how they wish, for I think that negative comments of what is happening during this period of mourning are quite inappropriate on a football forum.

That’s my rant over now when I’m trying not be as outspoken as I used to be. I’m not particularly a royalist nor an anti-royalist but I’ll still sing “God save our gracious King”:who ever he is or might be in the future.

To use your strong language, Ken, if you don’t like my views on royalty nor your god, then tough. I’m disappointed that you’d react as you did in such pejorative terms, which I find equally inappropriate, particularly on this friendly, supportive forum. Age is no excuse for rudeness.


ReplyQuote
Clive Hurren
Member
Joined: 2 years ago
Posts: 325
 

I’m still spitting feathers this morning. In 56 years of supporting Boro I had never before seen such inept defending as we delivered in the first half. The third goal, in particular, reminded me of one Barnsley scored against us in Mogga’s last match in charge, when their midfielder danced his way past 5 defenders to score. But last night’s was even worse, in some ways - Ng was playing in central defence! He was simply not challenged as he dribbled past our static ‘defenders’, who allowed him so much time and space he could have stopped, autographed the ball and still gone on to score. Clarke stood rooted to the spot. He wasn’t alone. Embarrassing and pathetic. So many parallels with that Barnsley game all those years ago: Boro were 3-0 down at the interval; the crowd showed their obvious displeasure with very loud booing at the break; Boro started playing far too late and ultimately fought back to score two late goals to lose 3-2; for much of the game, Boro lacked fight, heart, challenge and leadership. Given that this was a home game instead, with the home crowd perhaps seeing for the first time how weak Wilder’s collective actually are when the chips are down, then I wonder how many similar performances Gibson will allow him before he decides enough is enough. Our first half was so abject we could have replaced almost everybody at half-time. 

I notice CW came out after the game and defended his system. I won’t. It was plainly obvious that it didn’t work with just Muniz up front. He got no service at all and Boro just played hopeful (hopeless) long balls to him. If crosses did come in, Muniz was almost always the only man in red in the box. No wonder he had little impact. For the second game in a row Wilder learned that we play better with another striker supporting, and that Duncan gives the attack a different dimension.  Yet for 45 dreadful minutes he persisted with his stubborn one-upfront tactic. He almost brought Forss on just before we scored our first, but then changed his mind. Eventually, he gave the ‘development striker’ 5 minutes right at the end, during which the lad hardly touched the ball. Yet after the second goal we struggled to break down Cardiff’s 11 man defensive blockade. Not good enough, Mr Wilder.

Just to complete a wonderful evening, I faced no fewer than 5 major diversions on my way back to N Wales, adding an additional 49 miles to my journey, so I arrived home at 2.30. The first was a belter: the A19 was closed at the Tontine, but in their wisdom, the N Yorks authorities erected one insignificant and barely visible diversion sign just before the A67, so a lot of traffic, including me, scooted blithely past, as the road was clearly open well beyond. But on arrival at the Tontine, they sent all traffic back North up the A19 to the original diversion, which added a totally unnecessary and very frustrating 18 miles to my journey. I then had to proceed via Yarm and Darlington to the A1M via Scotch Corner. Mercifully, for these reasons and because I’m not sure I want to face another lame Boro display, I am unable to make the Rotherham game. 

 

 


Clive Hurren
Member
Joined: 2 years ago
Posts: 325
 

Ken, Martin

Please let us not get personal, gentlemen. This blog has always been about playing the ball, not the man. 

For my part, as an ardent republican, I have found the coverage of the Queen’s death to be absurd and wildly excessive, and frankly, it drives me nuts. The country is facing massive crises, but Parliament has ceased to operate; the national broadcaster has devoted its entire main channel programming to the Queen and the royal family; Center Parcs have told people with bookings to delay their arrival by one day; anybody protesting even in the mildest way is arrested for ‘causing a nuisance’; people are even having their own family funerals or hospital operations cancelled. To me, this is just unacceptable and the mourning is going on far too long. 

But other people very obviously have very different views on the matter to mine, which is their right. I don’t agree with them, but I’ll defend their right to hold those views to the hilt. 


jarkko
Member
Joined: 2 years ago
Posts: 1408
 

I do not understand why a queen or king must be working when they are over 90 year olds. I think they should pass on the baton to the next one latest when 75 or 80.

Mind, I have difficulties to understand how one can be born to be a king or queen. But that is another matter.

I liked Queen Elisabeth II but not so sure about the current monarch.

Up the Boro!


ReplyQuote
deleriad
Member
Joined: 2 years ago
Posts: 415
 

That was depressing. Listening to the audio commentary but gave up. My deepest sympathies to anyone who travelled to see that match.

This has to be a turning point for Wilder. He's been trying to play the same way since February and it hasn't worked. I realise that part of the problem with Warnock was that he flailing around with a different system and set of players every match. Wilder came in and immediately settled on a first 11 and a system. For three months that worked but the rest of the league adapted and everyone now knows how to beat us. Meanwhile, Wilder is blaming the players, recruitment and everyone else but himself.

To be clear, I don't think we should change manager but we do need to see some sort of sign that Wilder and Knill have answers. They have a track record of success together in a variety of clubs and there is still time to turn this season around.


Martin Bellamy
Member
Joined: 2 years ago
Posts: 653
 
Posted by: @clive-hurren

Ken, Martin

Please let us not get personal, gentlemen. This blog has always been about playing the ball, not the man. 

For my part, as an ardent republican, I have found the coverage of the Queen’s death to be absurd and wildly excessive, and frankly, it drives me nuts. The country is facing massive crises, but Parliament has ceased to operate; the national broadcaster has devoted its entire main channel programming to the Queen and the royal family; Center Parcs have told people with bookings to delay their arrival by one day; anybody protesting even in the mildest way is arrested for ‘causing a nuisance’; people are even having their own family funerals or hospital operations cancelled. To me, this is just unacceptable and the mourning is going on far too long. 

But other people very obviously have very different views on the matter to mine, which is their right. I don’t agree with them, but I’ll defend their right to hold those views to the hilt. 

I definitely don’t think we should play the man on here but, just as you’d expect of a combative midfielder, I won’t be fouled and just walk away from the tackle. I demand and expect the right of reply if I’m attacked on here or elsewhere.
Like you, I’m happy for others to have differing views from mine but respect is a two way street.


Liked by Clive Hurren
ReplyQuote
Boro Beckys Dad
Member
Joined: 2 years ago
Posts: 92
 

My first post for a while - I made the trip up for the game and after 45 minutes almost decided to go home again! But having only ever left a match early once (Blackpool away a few seasons ago) I decided to hang on in there.

For a while I thought we would claw it back but despite having 15 minutes left after the goals, we appeared to revert to Wilder style of play and towards the end, no matter how many strikers we had on, none of them would have scored since the service was pretty poor.

 

I would play Dijksteel from the start as he showed intent and Jones looked out of sorts. Watmore looked dangerous and certainly keener but overall we were very poor.

Too many errors and Wilder needs to sort it out asap

 

 


lenmasterman
Member
Joined: 2 years ago
Posts: 470
 

@boro-beckys-dad 

Welcome back.  Always enjoyed your contributions.


ReplyQuote
exmil
Member
Joined: 2 years ago
Posts: 741
 

Is it just me, or do other people get the impression that McNair is not interested, I have noticed that, not just this season, but during the end of last season. It became more obvious when he scored a goal (can’t remember which match) and when being mobbed/congratulated by fellow team mates, he appeared disinterested.

 I don’t know whether something has gone on between him and CW/coaching team or whether he wanted a move and Boro wouldn’t sanction it but maybe it is spreading in the changing room, if last night’s display was anything to go by, I also noticed no player came out for a post match interview. I hope I am wrong but it seems as though we have a problem in the dressing room.

Come on BORO.


deleriad
Member
Joined: 2 years ago
Posts: 415
 

For what it's worth, my 2p on the monarchy.

I'm a republican. I don't believe our head of state should be based on who popped out of a special vagina first. 

I'm also a palliative care researcher. People experiencing grief over the queen's death are experiencing real grief which needs to be acknowledged. There are a variety of reasons for this but for many, the queen symbolises and embodies something important and personal which they have lost. This is a momentous period.

For this reason, though I don't share that grief I don't begrudge or belittle those who are experiencing it. 

I said I'm a republican. I believe that in this day and age, citizens should choose our head of state. If we choose badly or I disagree with the choice, that's democracy. You live with it. I would rather have a bad choice than no choice.

The very worst reason to have a hereditary head of state is because they're a tourist attraction who brings in money. I'm perfectly happy for the royal family to carry on with no constitutional role and for all the land (and swans) they own to be  taken back into public ownership. They can pay taxes and go on processions and that's just fine by me. As for the tourist thing; France got rid of its royals a while back and it doesn't seem to have reduced tourism there.

I know some people feel different; that's fine. The only people I have issues with are those politicians and media barons who are using the situation to clamp down on dissent and to insist that if you aren't a royalist you're an enemy of the people. When a cop threatens to arrest someone for holding up a blank piece of paper, you know you're looking down a very dark road.


Powmill-Naemore
Member
Joined: 3 years ago
Posts: 769
 

@martin-bellamy 

I gave Ken the benefit of the doubt. I don't really think he was playing you or Werder  just expressing in an abrupt way his position on the matter. I am sure it wasn't personal (well, I hope I am not mistaken in that !!), but it certainly didn't read that way to me. I took the @werder and @martin simply as the connection to particular thread he was responding to in order to make his counter position. 

For my part I think there has been a really interesting conversation in here about the current events and related. Sometimes there are things that come to pass that touch us all in life and in a way that transcends other things in life - including a football blog. After all I reckon everyone in here would have had something to say about the Queen, the monarchy, the government etc. down the pub  in the same way we might have despaired about the current Boro down the pub.

Respect demands we tolerate each others positions and respect demands that we should be be wary of using careless language .... just in case.

 


 


K P in Spain
Member
Joined: 2 years ago
Posts: 1442
 

@exmil.  I agree and wonder if CW’s comments about needing a LCB earlier in the year has unsettled him.  

He has certainly not been the player he was previously and I was disappointed to learn he was playing instead of Dijksteel; he was at fault for the first goal and was rightfully substituted at half time. 😎


Martin Bellamy
Member
Joined: 2 years ago
Posts: 653
 
Posted by: @powmillnaemore

@martin-bellamy 

I gave Ken the benefit of the doubt. I don't really think he was playing you or Werder  just expressing in an abrupt way his position on the matter. I am sure it wasn't personal (well, I hope I am not mistaken in that !!), but it certainly didn't read that way to me. I took the @werder and @martin simply as the connection to particular thread he was responding to in order to make his counter position. 

For my part I think there has been a really interesting conversation in here about the current events and related. Sometimes there are things that come to pass that touch us all in life and in a way that transcends other things in life - including a football blog. After all I reckon everyone in here would have had something to say about the Queen, the monarchy, the government etc. down the pub  in the same way we might have despaired about the current Boro down the pub.

Respect demands we tolerate each others positions and respect demands that we should be be wary of using careless language .... just in case.

 


 

I couldn’t agree more with your last paragraph, but wonder why you are concentrating on my post. I don’t believe that at any time I have denigrated anyone’s view - it would certainly be out of character for me to do that. I hold strong views on lots of things but will always acknowledge that others have equally strong, but opposing views and respect them for doing so. At the age of 66, I no longer feel the need to hold back from expressing my opinions but, hopefully, I do so in a respectful way. 
I genuinely believed that Ken stepped over the line in his use of language in response to mine and Werdermouth’s posts and as such felt entitled to respond in the way I did. I stand by that view, but have no intention to fall out with anyone on here.


ReplyQuote
Forever Dormo
Member
Joined: 2 years ago
Posts: 412
 

I have views on the future of our Monarchy, the suitabililty of King Charles III to fulfil the role he now occupies, the contribution the Monarchy makes or fails to make to our democracy in the UK and in the Commonwealth and other linked issues, and views about the importance of free speech, but I do not intend to put them down here, or now.  I realise some may agree with me and others may not. But this is not the time for that.

However there are some things that absolutely HAVE to be agreed by all and there is no doubt that the TIME is right and the PLACE is right to do it here and now on this Blog. In short, that first half display by Middlesbrough at home to Cardiff City was completely unacceptable. The fact that that half-time whistle was greeted with loud boos from all areas of the stadium apart from the small away attendance, was eloquent testimony to the standard of performance the players served up and which the supporters had to endure.  Obviously there will be days when player X or player Y has a poor game.  But for the entire team (possibly excepting the  keeper?) to appear to be absent from duty for 45 minutes is not something supporters could be expected to witness.  I would like to hear an explanation and not just "it was one of those days..."


werdermouth
Site Creator
Joined: 6 years ago
Posts: 1551
 

The only consolation of yesterday's first-half performance is that I missed the first 20 minutes because I couldn't get the MFC Live feed to work - though just watched the highlights of the first two Cardiff goals and Boro just weren't at the races and were both ponderous on the ball and tracking back when defending.

McNair wasn't even at full tilt when chasing their man for the first goal - either his legs have gone or his mind has. Howson just looked off the pace for their second and got caught dawdling on the ball head back towards his own goal. Plus as mentioned early, their third saw Mowatt simply jogging casually back instead of putting pressure on their attacker who scored - he missed two opportunities to put in a tackle and Clarke also opted to jog back into the box too - they both ended up looking at each other like they were doing a charity run.

Not sure why we are seeing such a low energy start and performance and if Len or Exmil are correct then there may well be a dressing room problem, which could even indicate Chris Wilder has lost some of the players - Hopefully not, as getting in another new manager would be a disaster for the club but at least there's still money to spend in January should it come to that.

The other factor is that, as Deleriad has eluded to, Boro have become too predictable under Wilder and other managers know how to both neutralise our attack and exploit our defensive failings. Cardiff manager, Steve Morrison, said after the game: "We knew we could hurt them if we pressed at the right times and it was all about taking our chances when we got them."

Boro appear to have two lumbering centre-backs in McNair and Clarke with Fry probably not match fit - who are covered by the equally lumbering midfield of Howson, Mowatt and Crooks. Our only pace is up top and out wide, which kind of invites teams to press us. Thing improved when Dijksteel replaced McNair but given Cardiff had a three-goal lead to defend it's perhaps hard to judge if the defence was improved or just not needed.

Although, Boro got more joy going forward when they changed shape and Jones starting cutting inside occasionally to keep them guessing - though his final ball was often weak. Perhaps it's back to the drawing board for Wilder as whatever he's planning is not working - Maybe the pace and energy of McGree is needed in midfield and hopefully Watmore, Muniz and Akpom can do the work up top. Perhaps, even a 3-4-3 with both Bola and Giles down the left - not starting with the same shape every week may at least stop the opposition lying in wait for us. 

It could be a long season ahead - especially if Saturday goes badly!


Powmill-Naemore
Member
Joined: 3 years ago
Posts: 769
 

@martin-bellamy 

Sorry Martin. I didn't mean that to sound like I was concentrating on your post, I was actually trying to write something to diffuse a potential conflict (but this time I will express what I was writing more explicitly) that I thought it was Ken's use of language that was not appropriate and not tolerant, although I didn't think he was addressing that language and intolerance to Werder and to you personally, but more generally expressing his disagreement with everyone who expresses a different view. You are right. Age is no excuse for rudeness. Quite simply there is no excuse for being rude, period, but sometimes people can come across as being rude and personal when they perhaps didn't really mean to be.

Like I said, the conversation in here over a very significant national event has been (well with maybe one or two occasional emotive slip ups) exemplary. Even at the not quite as ripe old age of 63 I delight in hearing what other people have to say, to learn from them and still to let my own opinions develop.

 


Liked by 4 people: Ken Smith, Andy R, lenmasterman and Martin Bellamy
 
ReplyQuote
Clive Hurren
Member
Joined: 2 years ago
Posts: 325
 

@werdermouth 

Hi werder. Is there a way I can spot who is liking / disliking my posts? Now it says so-and-so has reacted. 

I can’t imagine anyone ever disliking my posts (! 😉 !), and if they did I’m not going to get shirty or shouty, but it would be nice to know! 

 


ReplyQuote
Page 2 / 4
Share: