RR, I hope that you are right and SG acts sooner rather than later but his track record is to wait until it becomes absolutely critical to do something. I can envisage a scenario where we get to early March next year, the team is languishing in or just above the relegation places, SG is forced to act, NW leaves and a new manager appointed who SG believes will keep us in the Championship.
It could then be deja vu with another dinosaur appointed as manager who is seen by SG as a safe bet. For example, Allardyce would fit that profile perfectly but someone like that would be another short term panic appointment that would do nothing to take the club forward in the future.
it would be infinitely preferable for SG to act soon and appoint a manager who is young, ambitious, talented and has demonstrated his management ability successfully in a lower league. It surely wouldn’t be any worse than one of the dinosaur brigade, would probably be much better and would at least be an investment in the future rather than a short term very expensive sticking plaster.
I have mentioned it before but I still find it very difficult to see any medium or longer term plan for the club that has a defined objective and a detailed action plan behind it setting out how the objective is going to be achieved. The actions taken by the senior management of the club seem to be driven almost entirely by events and are therefore reactive, short term and expedient. Unless this changes and the decisions taken are part of a cohesive plan to achieve an ambitious objective then we are all doomed to suffer more and more of the endless disappointment we have had to tolerate for the past few years.
I agree entirely with your last paragraph and have posted similar sentiments for a number of seasons. As a club all we seem to do is lurch from one crisis to the next and then fire fight or make knee jerk decisions. The opportunity to start a new era presented itself when NW kept us up, at which point he should have been let go into retirement with our best wishes.
Since our relegation from the PL we have been on a downward spiral in terms of results, league position, quality of performance and ability of players. As others have said, we are no longer a team but a collection of players and I don't subscribe to the notion that because of all the incomings it takes a while to gel together; the majority of yesterday's team had played together on numerous occasions and displayed the same old failings.
There is still time for NW to turn it around but I just can't see it happening given things have been sliding since the beginning of the year but would be happy to hear from others, who believe NW should be retained, what they think NW will do to arrest the decline.
I don't see SG acting until the Riverside revolts against NW or relegation beckons, either of which will be a sad end to NW's career. 😎
Our opponents are all beginning to wise up, and over the past few games, they look like they have 13 men on the other pitch, to our 10 and a half.
Is NW getting the best out of what he has - I don't think so as we have seen tight defense and effort in the past but now we are slipping.
It's time to get back to basics.
We haven't had a young ambitious manager for a while and maybe it's time.
Shame.... I liked NW he was refreshingly honest and down to earth, but we need to win games and stop letting in silly goals.
Can't see Steve Gibson getting rid of Neil Warnock just yet - after all if Boro would have held on to their lead they would have been just a point away from a play-off position instead of now being two points off the relegation places.
Although, Boro look a long way off being promotion contenders and given the unbalanced summer recruitment Neil Warnock appears to be facing a struggle to answer the question of what is best team and shape actually is.
As to what happens if Dijksteel is now injured pretty much depends on whether Bola returns to fitness. It looks like Lee Peltier will be favourite to play as both full-backs, though reverting to a back three with wingers as wing-backs is seeming to be the only option left.
I think it's Neil Warnock's judgement that is increasingly under scrutiny as most didn't watch the Forest game and decided it was so good that the same eleven should play again. There were obvious short-comings on display midweek, where a better opposition would have punished Boro and indeed that was demonstrated by Blackpool, who once again showed teams that run at the Boro defence tend to find joy.
Payero should have started if fit and why Jones wasn't reinstated on the left was harsh given he's been Boro's best player this season. Warnock set-up the team on Saturday with the same midfield problems highlighted in midweek - he shouldn't have been surprised to see those problems continue.
The call for the Boro chairman is at what point does the season appear to be one of mainly preparing for the next with promotion only an outside proposition. I suspect the next international break is too soon but it's possible the next on the 8th November could be uncomfortable if results haven't improved.
Warnock has now managed 66 games at Boro and currently has lost three more than he's managed to win - not really a sign of building momentum or anything remotely shouting promotion. As always, it will be results and perhaps a disgruntled Riverside crowd that will ultimately sway Steve Gibson as he once again returns to the drawing board.
Not sure we have the players to go back to basics, the club are just one defensive injury and a mishap with Howson to being in crisis - we may end up with the reverse Christmas-tree formation of 1-2-3-4 at this rate or possibly rush-goalie...
We have 10 players out on loan. Only two played 90 minutes Brynn and Hemming goalkeepers up in Scotland. Only 2 started Spence and Coulson they played 79 and 51 minutes respectively. Lewis wing got 16 minutes off the bench. Hayden Hackney and Robinson were on the bench and Burrell and Walker were not in the matchday squads.
I suspect many of those were 'sent' out on loan to kick the can down the road after Warnock decided he didn't fancy them - few youngsters at the sharp end have ended up making at Boro anyway with Josh Coburn now back with the U23 squad - though Nathan Wood was also only on the bench for Hibs too, so we may as well have kept him given our current defensive options. We could also do with Spence right now too as who will end up filling in if Dijksteel is injured - or indeed Coulson!
I have mentioned it before but I still find it very difficult to see any medium or longer term plan for the club that has a defined objective and a detailed action plan behind it setting out how the objective is going to be achieved.
I think "the Plan" is with Scott's appointment. Changing Manager hasn't worked, constantly buying and selling Players (losing money in the process) to suit the new Managers style of play has left us hamstrung as by the time the "new" Manager gets "his" Players in he is usually on the verge of being sacked and so we start it all over again.
The likes of Hernandez, Olusanya, Sporaz, Siliki and Payero all indicate a fresh approach in the type of Player we are signing. That would indicate a different philosophy to Pulis or Warnock's style or indeed even Karanka's methodology. Ikpeazu and Crooks are probably more Warnockesque in being big lads but they can still do a job for the new Manager and provide options.
I think SG is now adapting an Evolution rather than a Revolution approach and Scott will be central to that. No doubt they will have a "style" of Manager in mind and like as not a detailed profile on an ideal candidate and building a database and perhaps even a mini League table of who is a best fit.
Problem short term is when to stick or twist? If Norwich were to sack Farke would he be a good fit for our next building platform or should we go for our own version of a Farke in the meantime? Is Alex Neil perhaps the ideal "pre-Farke" candidate for the here and now? Does Scott have a list of German/Swiss/Austrian Coaches that are up and coming and likely to be the next Tuchel that we are already in discussions with for next season? Can their appointment be rushed through or indeed should it be rushed?
At least Strictly Come Dancing might keep us entertained for the Autumn!
Someone mentioned Allardyce. A big no from me.
Sad news about Jimmy Greaves passing away this morning at 81. Put's our woes into perspective.
RIP Jimmy Greaves died aged 81
One of the legends of Football and loved the Saint and Greavsie show
OFB
We won’t Waltz into the playoffs as I think we’ve been Tangoed!
SG needs to do a Quick Step and Strictly between us I think he’s looking .
Boro done even know how to pass the ball never mind the glitter ball !
OFB
Very disappointing to wake up to that result. I was expecting a win. Haven't seen any of the game so will wait for the "highlights" later today.
A bit off topic but was wondering why we send players out on loan particularly the youngsters. I know NW says they need to play men's football but this weekend that was not the case , in the main. We have 10 players out on loan. Only two played 90 minutes Brynn and Hemming goalkeepers up in Scotland. Only 2 started Spence and Coulson they played 79 and 51 minutes respectively. Lewis wing got 16 minutes off the bench. Hayden Hackney and Robinson were on the bench and Burrell and Walker were not in the matchday squads.
Doesn’t that say something in its self, the fact that they can’t get into lower division teams, including “magical” Wing who I personally think is a division 1 player at best.
Come on BORO.
RR, the “Plan” could indeed be as you suggest but would it not be respectful to the fans if the Club was to share the key aspects of it with them. Many supporters are disappointed, disillusioned and fed up with what is on offer on the field at the moment and are desperate to know where their club is being taken by the management. The fans make the club and they deserve much, much better communication from the management about the roadmap for the future of MFC.
A caller on Tees last night - after most of the cynics had been on - made the valid point that several of our players are newly arrived and that we need to get behind them and give them time to settle. I have some sympathy with that view. Two who played yesterday only arrived last week.
I think we are starting to see signs of a more attacking approach - much less long ball, as Bernie pointed out - so I don’t see NW necessarily as the one-trick, boring pony he’s often characterised as. We have a couple of exciting wingers in Jones and Hernandez, and I think Sporar is starting to look the real deal (sorry, Plato, I disagree with you on that!) I do think Warnock hasn’t yet sorted out how this collection of individuals will play as a team, but perhaps that will improve after more time on the training pitch and more games? It better had, because we can’t afford to be letting the play-off pack get much further ahead - it’s only 4 points to 6th place at present, but we really can’t rely on Boro putting together a storming run of 4 or 5 wins on the trot to close a wider gap. When did that last happen? Yonks ago. The hallmark of this Boro is our infuriating inconsistency, witness yesterday’s inept display after the midweek away win.
The problems Warnock has to sort out after the demoralising Blackpool defeat are alarming. Defensively, we were all over the place. Blackpool should have scored two sitters in the first half after our defenders went AWOL, and that’s even before we consider the errors we made to concede two later on. Back to basics as regards defensive duties has to be priority number one, as we’re far too open and lax at present. Heaven help us if Dijksteel is injured: we are down to the bare bones as it is and I really don’t want Tav playing at full-back. Our bench yesterday had only one defender, the ageing and not very fit Bamba. I’m not convinced by Lumley in goal.
Our midfield was too often overrun by Blackpool’s forwards running at us - but, of course, we have no Morsy to get stuck in and provide cover. Hernandez is good at taking on his man, but his crosses and end product were poor. When Boro did cross into the box there was often only Sporar there. Siliki flattered to deceive: he sometimes looks good going forward and played a couple of telling passes, but too often he gave the ball away cheaply and his influence waned considerably second half as he tired; NW brought Payero on for him far too late. I thought the Argentinian made a real difference in his short cameo; he hit the bar very unluckily, fired a very sharp free kick that the keeper only just saved and had another shot on target.
I could go on. I’ve read someone say on here that another manager would do much better with this squad of players. So let’s give them a wee bit more time to settle in and for the most effective shape to gel. Let’s see how the land lies after the next two games. But if there are two more defeats, or one loss and a draw from Reading and Sheffield United, then truly the alarm bells will start to ring.
Fundamentally, our performance against Blackpool was a carbon copy of the one against Forest. The difference was that Blackpool had the self-belief to come back at us and our luck ran out. Even the Bristol City game was the same. If a team attacks us with pace and sustained pressure we can't handle it.
At this point we all know that we have a set of players that don't form a Warnock team but also don't form any other obvious type of team. Fundamentally this has been a problem since we lost in the playoffs to Norwich: a mis-match between players and managers with occasional catastrophically bad managerial appointments (Agnew and Woodgate).
To be honest, given the amount of churn we have had since January I doubt any manager could knit the group we currently have into a functioning, well-balanced team. At the moment we're left hoping rather than planning for success. If Warnock can find a way of playing his best players together and string together some results that breeds confidence then it looks like we have the quality in the squad to challenge for the playoffs. Thing is, this doesn't look like a Warnock team and I doubt Warnock is in a position to change what has worked for him in the past.
Frankly, I can't imagine changing the manager working this season but neither does it seem likely that keeping him will work either. I guess right now that our default plan has to be based around not getting promoted this season and figuring out what we need to do to get promoted next season. If we do get to the play-offs this year I think it will be the result of a lucky break where suddenly everything clicks. Like Woodgate's golden month only sustained. It's not impossible and is probably more likely to happen under Warnock than a new manager. I don't see it happening though.
@clive-hurren. "But if there are two more defeats, or one loss and a draw from Reading and Sheffield United, then truly the alarm bells will start to ring."
For me Clive the alarm bells have been ringing since January and despite all the comings and goings I have not seen anything that convinces me that NW can turn this around! 😎☹️
We have no idea, the equaliser was a case in point. Left of centre 25 yards out their man was stood in front of our defender just inside the right hand post the ball was onto his head and he did the job, no sweat, and worse, they then knew that they had nothing to fear and the win was on, and that goal was not more difficult. Part time is no good, a proper manager lives it 24/7 . The idea that we can leave out our best forward is to live on fantasy island.
The dust has settled a bit for me now. I was so frustrated coming away from the game yesterday but it passes.
Just a few points:
1. I was dumfounded at how long Siliki was left on the field. He started brightly and showed some good passing, hard running/closing-down and physicality but to my eyes he fell off a cliff around 35 minutes and from then on was second to every ball, consistently passing to the opposition or no-one in particular and sluggishly getting caught in possession. I was expecting him to be withdrawn at half-time and couldn't believe he was still toiling away until the last ten minutes of normal time. That inaction from the bench really hurt us I felt.
2. I thought Crooks had another poor game I'm afraid and was equally as bad as SIliki in possession. The game was lost because those two couldn't get a grip in central midfield or string a few passes together and, again, I couldn't believe that we passively left them on field when Jones and Payero could have - and should have - come on much sooner to give us some energy.
3. A word of praise for Peltier. Clearly left-back is not the ideal position for him and as such he offers nothing going forward whatsoever but he was up against Blackpool's best player yesterday and I thought he coped well overall. I could understand why Warnock left him on the left as he wouldn't have wanted to put a less experienced or even more makeshift player up against Josh Bowler. Peltier being right-footed actually helped in that situation as Bowler only wanted to come inside and shoot.
You have just worried me (even more) the next two games are, on any known form, zero points, the only trouble is, this is not the Eurovision song contest.
Deleriad, based on current form the plan for this season should be not to get relegated.
I wonder whether the players find it hard to get behind a manager who is essentially two generations older than them. Being managed by your Granddad must seem strange and he won’t have any common ground with them outside of football.
I suspect it would have been a good idea to have recruited a possible successor to work as NW’s assistant this year. He could have been a bridge between the players and management and have got to study his future team too.
At the age of 63 when I fully retired I struggled to get close to our professional team who were all much younger than me. I also knew that I’d never be as close to the cutting edge of our profession when I was in my 60s, as I was when I was 40. Likewise, football has moved on since NW’s best years, particularly in the Championship, and I think he’s made the right decision to call it a day at the end of this year.
I know that Neil Warnock enjoyed yesterday’s match but not the result. It takes me back to the 50s when I was a child. Disappointed when Boro lost, but as long as my mates and I saw entertaining football and a few goals we were happy with our lot. Beating Manchester United or Sunderland were rare events in those days, but on the rare occasions we did it was wonderful. Of course for most of that time Boro were in the First Division and except for a couple of seasons were in a relegation dogfight, but we still came back for more. Defeats were quickly forgotten and we still came back a fortnight later, it was a ritual, a bit like those that follow the Boro away from home today. Why are we so obsessed with wanting to reach the playoffs and possible promotion to the Premier League which many of us despise anyway with the inevitable defeats that would entail. Take Norwich City as an example - too good for the Championship but hopelessly inept in the Premier League. Why not accept Boro for what they have now become, an average Championship club at best and let’s play our academy players, who are itching to play for the Boro.
Boro are never going to be a top Premier League team again. We’ve enjoyed success at the Riverside but we can’t compete financially with the big boys anymore. We’ve now employed 34 managers since the Second World War plus 7 caretaker managers, and apart from David Jack, Bob Dennison 4 top six finishes, Stan Anderson 4 top six finishes plus one promotion from the 3rd Division, Jack Charlton, John Neal, Bruce Rioch, Lennie Lawrence, Bryan Robson, Steve McClaren, possibly Tony Mowbray and Aitor Karanka none of them have been a success. Nevertheless for most of that time the football was enjoyable arguably because we weren’t obsessed with reaching the playoffs. I know the argument that playoffs prolong the season for many more clubs, but I hate them as they don’t always reward consistency but often a team with a strong finish.
Steve Gibson once had a dream of a future Boro team of academy players, and indeed before the UEFA Cup Final Steve McClaren selected such a side away to Fulham. What’s the point of sending them out on loan when sometimes they’re only squad players and hardly make an appearance for their new employers?
I was surprised Siliki started as he looked to have hit a wall after around the hour mark in midweek - plus he didn't convince me he was anything but an attacking midfielder when we looked to need some extra bite in midfield even against Forest.
The 'resting' of Jones was also mystery to me and was disappointed to hear Warnock blaming him after the match for Blackpool's first goal by saying he was dreaming instead of closing down the opposition with the free kick. Almost sounds like he's giving reasons to leave him out for the next game too.
Also thought Peltier did OK against Blackpool - better than he played midweek - though I wouldn't have gone as far as Neil Warnock did after he said "Pelts was fantastic" - he probably needs to do lot more than just defend like a full-back is supposed to before he gets that level of praise but at least he has shown he's not going to let anyone down.
btw Andy, how did your daughter enjoy her first game? OK, I expect there were a few tears in the car on the way home until your daughter told you to cheer up daddy it's only a stupid game of football...
Yes, I guess there could be something of a mental age gap for the players to deal with - especially with Neil Warnock behaving like a stroppy teenager and having tantrums on the touchline...
btw Andy, how did your daughter enjoy her first game? OK, I expect there were a few tears in the car on the way home until your daughter told you to cheer up daddy it's only a stupid game of football...
Haha!
She said she enjoyed it and would like to go again. I told her she’d have to go with someone else!
To be honest, I think that’s why I was so disappointed. We don’t live in the area so seeing Boro live is a big deal and was doubly so in taking my daughter for the first time.
She was buzzing with the walk up to the ground and seeing so many people all kitted out and singing. I saw the same “wow” moment in her eyes when we emerged from the concourse to see the stadium and that perfect green grass as I felt when my Dad first took me to Ayresome.
She grinned up at me when the players came out and everyone stood and clapped along to Pig Bag, and then we scored after just eight minutes! It was perfect.
After that I found her largely watching the Red Faction with fascination and I didn’t blame her - nothing was happening on the field. Such a shame, but a great experience for both of us.
At least she had an experience she won't forget despite the result - I can't imagine taking my 11-year to see a football game any time soon as he has next to zero interest in watching football - I think he gets that from his mother! I'd probably need to stream a game on his Nintendo and ask him if he can take Boro up to the next level before he'd even catch his attention.
Bit that’s what you gave her in Saturday
An experience she will never forget !
Teams and players come and go but Boro will always be here in our hearts ♥️
Up the Boro!
Hope you’ve got your enthusiasm back to write the next preview !!!
OFB