Thanks for the preview Andy and lining up all those untypical Boro-like ducks in a row - playing the bottom team who are even more desperate for a win than we are will mean someone is going to be disappointed - possibly both if it ends up goalless!

It's been a strange opening to the season as Boro had looked the better side in many of our games (though not on Saturday) but had failed to capitalise and take their chances. This is the problem of the Championship, where often there isn't much between the teams and winning becomes something of a habit - or indeed failing to win.

Given out obvious short-comings, I've been a little puzzled by the whole pre-season recruitment and the subsequent casting off of players who Warnock no longer fancied. Djed Spence was probably our only genuine right wing-back and Coulson perhaps equally an option on the left.

The midfield has gone from looking too solid and lacking creativity to now seemingly one bad injury away from being in crisis. Lewis Wing had been praised in pre-season for his all-round midfield performance but decided to jump before he was barely on the bench - given that Saville left 'early doors' for personal reasons you would have imagined Morsy was going to be a key player.

OK, we still don't know if Payero or Siliki will become a ball-winning creative midfield as they've not had much chance to show what they can do - though the latter looked pretty keen in being in a more advance role. Along with Crooks, our new midfield is in danger of all wanting to be the same player - with that player being Tav!

The question I've been pondering is whether some of the new signings are even going to make the bench - what would happen in the unlikely scenario of Ameobi being fit plus Marcus Browne is scheduled to be fit again in October. As far as I'm aware the bench can only have seven players - one is going to be a keeper and normally Warnock has two defenders, with Peltier and Bamba.

We've already seen Josh Coburn fall off the bench and it's unlikely any of the youngsters will find themselves in the squad unless there are injuries. Let's face it, a club is not going to sign new players and then leave them out of the squad - it's probably why Wing, Coulson and Spence escaped and also why Morsy was pushed.

Basically, Boro appear to have gone from one unbalanced squad that ended last season to building a new one - that is now already starting to look thin in a defensive capacity. Interestingly, the solution to defensive midfield could be Connor Malley but I can't see him being promoted ahead of all the new signings.

Though it remains to be seen how many of those signings were Warnock picks rather than generic club signings - I await with interest to see when Payero gets his chance by a manager who seemed to suggest it was his chairman who fancied signing some South Americans.

Anyway, as to how Boro will line up against Forest is going to be difficult to guess - if Bola and McNair are both doubtful we're going to see a fair bit of square-pegging. To be fair to Jones he did quite well defensively and better than Tav managed in his deeper midfield role, where the team lose his attacking brain. Then there's Sol Bamba who looked to be struggling at times and wouldn't fancy seeing him needing to play as a regular.

So I'm still pondering what Boro's best team is and given all the new signings and exits, I suspect Neil Warnock is having the same problem. Fortunately, he's paid to make those calls but as yet not much sign that he's making the right ones!

Thanks Andy a a great preview to start the ball rolling again.

Funnily enough I didn’t know it was 2 0  until later in the evening as we lost all TV and Radio signals and missed the end of the game against Coventry. The bilsdale transmitter has been out for 5 weeks now and our radio and TV reception is poor having to rely on internet signals to get programmes.

I was very disappointed after the result on Saturday and thought it was one we should have taken at least a point from.

The forest game is a 6 pointer even at this early stage of the season as Forest will not want to be cast adrift at the bottom and need to drag teams down alongside them. Boro need to win to get some confidence into the team and if Warnock said we have a great team spirit we’ll now is the time to show it by adopting a winning streak.

Bamba is not the answer in defence for me and we need to rejig it even to the extent of playing Dijksteel (who had a shocker on Saturday) on the right of a back 3.

So who made the decision to let Morsy Spence and Wood go? Looks poor managerial decisions to me.

If the Boro lose against Forest then I know a few who will be firing arrows at our septuagenerian Manager ! But then if we do lose I know for sure it will be the referees fault.

Me? I’ve lost faith in him and he has to go and go now before it’s too late !

What do the rest of the Diasborians think ?

OFB 

The sale of Morsy is the one that really makes no sense to me. I would prefer to have kept Wing, Coulson and Spence too (especially given Fisher's injury) but I think those players wanted to go and play and didn't have sufficient confidence in their manager's confidence in them. Morsy is different, he was keen to stay as far as we're aware and the midfield needs him too. It seems as if he was moved on to balance the books but in that case why bring in so many others who play in a similar position but do a different job?

My speculative opinion is that the sale of Morsy was not Warnock's decision. Warnock brought him to the club just one season ago and has consistently played him. No, for me, this was a decision taken elsewhere, and not a very smart one in the short term.

My (unpopular?) opinion is that Warnock should stay for now. Repeatedly changing managers has done us no good in recent years and we've just turned the squad upside down. Changing the management team could be truly chaotic in an already uncertain environment. It's difficult to be patient and results this calendar year have fallen well short but a shake-up at this stage is more likely to backfire in my opinion. The only reason I would change managers right now is if there is someone out there who is the absolute real deal but is relatively unknown and therefore we can get ahead of the curve. He would, of course, need to be willing to come and attainable. I think it's unlikely and in that case, perhaps frustratingly, our best course of action right now is to give the new squad some time I think. Lose the next three and we may have no choice.

As far as Wednesday goes, I think we should play as many players as possible in their natural positions, remove some complications and just try to get some certainty into their games. Assuming there's no Bola or McNair, I'd go with:

4-3-3

Lumley

Djiksteel Fry Hall Peltier

Crooks Howson Siliki

Tavernier Ikpeazu Jones

Happy enough if Tav moves central in place of Siliki and Hernandez plays wide right.

Thanks Andy for a great preview report.

As for Wednesday I just don't know what to expect in respect of the team or the result.

Based on last Saturday's performance, Dijksteel should be dropped but given that MB and PM are unlikely to be available then he probably has to start either as part of a back three with GH and DF or in a back four with Lee Peltier being square pegged at left back; I don't think SB can play two games so close together.

Hernandez has to start and I would also start with Sporar and leave Ikpeazu on the bench as he was off the pace and ineffectual on Saturday. Crooks and Tav have to start but neither did much on Saturday. Howson and Jones being the others to get the nod. Formation of 1/4/1/3/1/1 or 1/3/2/3/1/1.

As for the result, I certainly can't see it being a high scoring game and 0-0 is a distinct possibility but NW and the team cannot afford another display or defeat in the manner of last Saturday as the Riverside against Blackpool will be ready to explode. 😎

Andy,

A great opener about a depressing situation and I get the feeling there's a bit of 'Monkism' in the purchases that have unbalanced the squad in a different way. I'm still struggling about Morsy.

We can't play younger players because they need to go away and play first team football in Scotland or wherever to become men as Mr W says. Then players we've bought who are men and or pros have to bed in and understand the Championship. I don't understand anymore. A simple game? 

This is a typical Boro game, it's written all over it, so a 1 - 0 loss for me, with the goal coming in the last ten minutes, Stevie Mac's red zone. That's after our schoolboy nine man midfield has managed to keep them at bay.

One day a win will come.

UTB,

John

@original-fat-bob

I don't think you can ditch your manager after six games before most of his new signings have barely kicked a ball and he's been left short defensively by failures to sign cover. You have to be fair and give him enough time to show he's not capable of getting the best out of his players 🙂 Boro could easily win their next four games - they could also easily lose them if they're not careful. Having said that his record in 2021 is not good and whether that's entirely his fault is not completely clear - depends on what decisions were made by whom. Nevertheless, he's been picking the team and made it clear that players like Wing, Coulson and Spence were not going to feature much in his team. Like any manager he needs results - especially given the poor end to last season - hopefully he'll get the benefit of having better quality players arriving, who at least should be keen to impress at a new club!

@andy-r

I think 4-3-3 is probably the least worst option if neither Bola or McNair are fit. Though, wing-backs favour the lack of a left-back but puts Dijksteel under pressure after the last game - who else can play right wing-back? Maybe Jeremy Sivi could but could be seen as too much of a risk. In which case Dijksteel as right-back and Peltier as left-back are the only real options. 

I would go with Howson, Siliki and Tavernier in the more advanced midfield role with a front three of Hernandez, Crooks and Jones as Sporar probably needs more time to 'integrate'.

Still, how you fit Toyosi, Ikpeazu, Watmore, Sporar, Hernandez, Jones, Tavernier and Crooks into a forward line is anyone's guess - let alone when Ameobi and Browne are fit. Given the midfield could ultimately be Siliki on the left, Howson in the centre and Payero on the right - that leaves TEN players fighting over three attacking places while the defence struggles for numbers! Could someone at the club actually provide the fag packet that shows the workings out...

@werdermouth

Most of the posters on this site seem to be tending towards mercy for the manager. I had better declare at once that I prefer to face the fact that we are effectively unmanaged at this time, and have been for some time. On the most basic level wild changes are made, subs are used in the most foolish way that would disgrace the local common. We finally decide that Tav. Might just be a very Good player? So we, at random, switch him to right wing back, we find a Young winger who is very good (not afraid to score) so we play him at wing back, we are a team who throw a party when we score a goal, anyone who has any talent in front of goal should be in front of goal. Coulson, debut in fourth last game, scores winner, with his head, three pointless games to go, come on Coulson. Er! not quite, back to the training ground for him,  as we wasted those pointless games, oh! And Coulson was off on loan this season, I wonder why? More than time our Manager was on his way back to his garden. If you think I am unkind consider the following. He made Britt Captain, he allowed Britt to take dead balls. He dropped Wing, he told the same player that he was hitting the ball too hard when shooting. Must stop now, I can't stop laughing.            

I think the only sensible option is a 433 set up but I think that logic and common sense are dwindling assets as Warnock approaches his managerial twilight.

Tavernier I believe was a LB as a youth player converted to play further upfield. Considering his skill set and ability to tackle I would put him in as a direct replacement for Bola. That would then leave a backline that is relatively stable with Dijksteel, Hall and Fry taking up the other three positions. Play Jones in front and I think you have an almost identical like for like partnership as with Bola and Jones. Too sensible and simple I suppose.

Midfield is a minefield but with Payero (clearly brought in to replace Morsy despite the Manager having other protestations), Siliki, Crooks and Howson we are well stocked to select three from four. 

For the three forward roles, Watmore, Hernandez, Ikpeazu, Sporar, Olusanya and Jones should provide plenty of options. I think we may see Jones dropped however to "rest" the lad and then Warnock can cause further unnecessary disruption and unfamiliarity as is his want. 

For the result and especially after the last 4 no shows I can see no reason for Boro to suddenly look joined up and connected. Once again we will be left shaking heads, Forest record their first win of the season because the Referee robbed of us a definite penalty, offside or sending off. No doubt our set pieces will be a work of anything but Art.

A draw for Forest isn’t going to help them too much, they need a win to kick-start their season and I think they’ll get it. I get the feeling that many fans are saying we must not lose this game, more than are saying we must win it. Forest need a win more desperately than Boro, and for that reason I expect a 1-0 home win.

This feels like an early season crunch match. We win and Hughton is probably toast. We lose and those of us willing to give Warnock time to mould a team start to wobble. Given that the expectation is for to us win, Warnock is on a hiding to nothing for this game. Even if we win, there's a risk that the Blackpool game starts seeing vocal divisions among the fans that mark the beginning of the end.

I honestly don't know what our best 11 and formation is. It's good that, on paper at least, we now have intense competition for places among the midfield and attack but it is hard to see how to set up so that we get the best use of out of the players. Assuming that McNair, Bola and Payero are injured, possibly the way to go is 4-1-4-1

Lumley

Dijksteel Fry Hall Peltier

Howson

Hernandez Crooks JLS Tav

Sporar

I think Uche is still under par from his illness. I think Tav gets moved around too much. Hernandez looks like he ought to be close to an automatic include but he may not be fit enough for 2 games in 4 days. That leaves Tav competing with Jones for a wide left position or possibly as an attacking central midfielder in competition with JLS. Thing is that this is yet another formation and permutation plus it absolutely does not look like a Warnock team.

Overall, we can only hope that Forest's crisis is an order of magnitude worse than ours and that their players have lost faith. Interesting to read this on BBC Sport.

They had signed 15 players in the summer of 2020, which the chairman has since acknowledged was a mistake, and were in a bit of a mess.

Hughton kept them up, but admits he thought he'd have turned their form around more quickly than he did. They never got into any rhythm and have started this season much the same.

The club have changed policy this summer with more attention on younger players, which is Dane Murphy's influence as the new CEO, and they've reduced the wage bill.

They were unable to sign a striker on deadline day despite trying, but while they have some decent players and some with plenty of potential, Brennan Johnson in particular, they're in a rut of results.

The players were clearly trying on Sunday and took a deserved lead with a good goal, but ultimately got bullied by a big Cardiff team, especially when they tired in the second half.

Pretty much reads like a club making all the same mistakes we have.

@werdermouth

Boro are a non-smoking club in every sense. The new tactic is the great midfield wall.

UTB,

John

From a player who once had the longest recorded throw-in in football measured at 152 feet, to a manager of Hartlepool who looks like breaking another record as holding the best home record in the EFL/National League of wins, I’m writing about Dave Challinor. I remember in 2000 how his throw-ins for Tranmere terrorised Premier League Boro in the Quarterfinals of the League Cup in that year. Now the Pool’s fans are saying he’s a better manager than Jose Mourinho (maybe an exaggeration), but he does seem to have the Midas touch. At 45 years old he might not have had the experience of managing an EFL club until this season, but a record of 18 wins and only one defeat from his last 20 home matches suggests that he knows what he’s doing on and off the field having only had 7 or 8 players left at the start of the transfer window. 

I don’t like depriving Pools of their best manager since Brian Clough, but I’d love to see him as Boro’s next manager. I remember in the late 60s and early 70s of going to Ayresome Park expecting Boro to win and they rarely disappointed. The nearest mood of expectancy since was in Karanka’s promotion season. Nowadays I NEVER expect Boro to win, but just grateful when they do as I’ve now becoming a sceptic and with good reason. All this change of formations seems ludicrous to me; letting the opposition worry about us would be a start, and a younger manager would be a good starting point.

Posted by: @redcarred

I think the only sensible option is a 433 set up but I think that logic and common sense are dwindling assets as Warnock approaches his managerial twilight.

Tavernier I believe was a LB as a youth player converted to play further upfield. Considering his skill set and ability to tackle I would put him in as a direct replacement for Bola. That would then leave a backline that is relatively stable with Dijksteel, Hall and Fry taking up the other three positions. Play Jones in front and I think you have an almost identical like for like partnership as with Bola and Jones. Too sensible and simple I suppose.

Midfield is a minefield but with Payero (clearly brought in to replace Morsy despite the Manager having other protestations), Siliki, Crooks and Howson we are well stocked to select three from four. 

For the three forward roles, Watmore, Hernandez, Ikpeazu, Sporar, Olusanya and Jones should provide plenty of options. I think we may see Jones dropped however to "rest" the lad and then Warnock can cause further unnecessary disruption and unfamiliarity as is his want. 

For the result and especially after the last 4 no shows I can see no reason for Boro to suddenly look joined up and connected. Once again we will be left shaking heads, Forest record their first win of the season because the Referee robbed of us a definite penalty, offside or sending off. No doubt our set pieces will be a work of anything but Art.

 

I think that the idea of putting Tavernier at left back is an elegant solution that immediately creates a potentially exciting combo with Jones and makes it possible to play Hernandez as well. It also puts Dijksteel into a more comfortable position at right back. I would then assume that Howson sits in front of the centre halves and Silliki and Crooks take the other two more advanced roles. A 4-1-4-1 that can turn into a more attacking structure when we get the ball.

Amidst the gloom, how different would it be if Crooks’ header from Silliki’s exquisite pass had sneaked in under the bar instead of hitting it full on.

Utb

@ken I think RR suggested that, too. And I can only agree with you and RR in there. 

Thanks for sharing more info on the Pools manager, too.

Up the Boro! 

I would go for the following at Forest:

Lumley

Tavernier Fry Hall Peltier Jones

Howson

Crooks Lea-Siliki 

Ikpeazu Hernandez

I usually do not prefer a back five (or three centre backs) but we need to be solid now and to grind a win. So I also see the logic in RR's formation with a flat back four.

We need to gring a win now. So a 1-0 win with Fry header from a conrner (!). Very untypical Boro, I know. 

Unfortunately this result could mean that Nottingham Forest boss Chris Hughton could lose his job - I like him as a person and hope he survives a rare Boro win at the Tricky Trees.

Sorry for my Boro positivity. Up the Boro!

@jarkko. We need your positivity as there are plenty of old f***s around like me who are finding it difficult to be positive about anything Boro at the minute.  😎

Just to add further comment re Tavenier, whilst playing him at left back/wing back is a solution it is far from ideal in a side which is already short on creativity.  To my mind he is better in a midfield/10 role or even out wide as he produces more options when on form.

If we are going to have to square peg then better to play Peltier as a left back which he should be able to do if he has the support of Jones when we are defending. 😎

@k-p-in-spain

That's my view on Tavernier too, whilst it seems a logical solution to play Tav as a wing-back, I think the team lose far more than they gain by giving him a defensive role. OK, he can tackle but that's not what he's about really - he's far more effective around the box and is one of the few players who can get a goal out of nothing and can shoot on target!

Boro are a different side when he's playing with his energy and drive and if I was Warnock I'd be building my side around him not turning him into a utility player who fills in and does a job.

I still question the reshaping of the squad, do we actually have a right wing-back in the side now and it seems only Bola can play either left-back or left wing-back. Jones has stepped in at left wing-back but it's asking a lot and has reduced his impact as was until the weekend our main attacking outlet. Apparently, I read that Siliki has played left wing-back before Boro signed him - might be an option but I fancy Bola will be passed fit for Wednesday.

I noted Warnock's slightly sarcastic quote about Howson a couple of days ago "I’ve just had to ask Jonny Howson not to get injured, which solves every problem I’ve got then, doesn’t it?" It sounds like a manger who was not happy to lose Morsy. Boro also seem short on central defenders given they've been playing with a back three - there's not much after Bamba other than Peltier or Dijksteel filling in but the latter seems to be needed on the right.

OK, Bamba is only the same age as Ronaldo but despite the Boro defender's audacious overhead kick on Saturday, I think that's where the comparison abruptly ends. I thought he was really only going to be cover in an emergency but it looks like he's going to get plenty of pitch time this season - especially if McNair ends up being midfield cover for Howson. Hopefully, Payero recovers from his ankle injury as it appears he was set to play against Coventry as Neil Warnock briefly shared the same page as the one I'd ripped out of my emergency Boro manager manual before it was quickly stuck back in.

Anyway, I'm still looking at the squad permutations to try and find something that works - it may be as others have said a Monk-style trial and error period that awaits us for the coming months and perhaps Warnock could well be getting a similar card to his predecessor this Christmas from his chairman if he doesn't find a side that functions at least as well as its many ill-fitting parts.

At the risk of starting a riot by mentioning the names of Karanka and Pulis, I have to say that at least with both managers you had teams you could recognise.  

They may not have produced much in the way of attractive football but at least they were organised, disciplined and well drilled. I always thought that if this could have been allied to one or two play makers and a genuine goal scorer we would have had a really good side. 

I always thought that NW had a style of play but I have yet to see it, particularly this year, and at times when watching wonder which positions some players are supposed to be playing. Even NW mentioned that it was like watching Sunday football at times last Saturday!

Perhaps this will evolve in the coming weeks as Werder has indicated but if not I agree that if we are not in touching distance of the top six by Christmas then NW should go either voluntarily or via the SG phone call.

If he does it will be a sad ending to a distinguished career which should have ended the season before last in my opinion. 😎

With the new signings, I could see a Warnock-type team of 4-3-3 evolve with a midfield of Siliki-Howson-Payero and then Ikpeazu as the target man with Hernandez and Sporar playing either side. It might work but that would mean no start for either Tav, Crooks or Jones, let alone Toyosi and the currently injured Ameobi or Browne.

So as I'm busy in the garden doing some heavy pruning, my ponderings have led me to believe that ultimately Boro will need to shape their squad by playing with essentially wingers as wing-backs if there is any hope of getting them to fit together somehow. It may mean a back three of Dijksteel, Fry and McNair with Hall offering the main cover and Bamba back to emergency cover.

Otherwise, anyone tell me what, who and when a shape of a Boro team will emerge this season - though I think I'm still stuck on why...

@werdermouth

3-1-4-2 sort of works if you're playing with wingers and using a midfielder as a defensive shield. In that case the right and left sided CBs cover the wide areas and the defensive midfielder almost acts like a CB. For example

Dijksteel - Fry - Bola/McNair/Peltier/Bamba could be the centre three. 

McNair/Howson can be the defensive midfielder

Wingers can be picked from: Tav, Hernandez, Jones, Olusanya

Centre midfielders: Crooks, Payero, JLS, Malley

Forwards: Uche, Sporar, Watmore, Coburn

It would be a really attacking team that is going to rely on playing on the front foot and outscoring the opposition. It's definitely not a Warnock type team. 

@deleriad

according to latest reports McNair is extremely doubtful for the game after sustaining an injury whilst playing for Ireland in a friendly on Sunday on a plastic pitch.

So Boro have to suffer the consequences of an inconsequential and meaningless game!

OFB

@k-p-in-spain

Good post 

BTW

KARANKA IS AVAILABLE ISN'T HE?

OFB

@deleriad

It's certainly difficult finding a Warnock-type team out of what we've got - I'd agree trying to outscore the opposition is not something he built his reputation on - unless you mean winning 1-0 😉

Could be a job for a younger attack-minded manager - I wonder if Gibson has got Kevin Keegan's number as he's at least two years younger than Warnock - of course total-football Woodgate is available but that appointment may make the Riverside seem like it's been closed for Covid again...

@deleriad

We could play a 3-4-3 ala Conte's Chelsea. He had Victor Moses at wingback as well wingers who came inside and joined in with the frontman in the way Tavernier likes to do.

The attacking options are unlike any we've seen at Boro in many a year. It's the defensive cover in midfield that's missing all of a sudden after the sale of Morsy. I don't think McNair is a holding midfield player.

@werdermouth

Good Post 

let’s hope Xmas comes early for the Boro faithful. !!!

OFB

@werdermouth

Woodgate? ??

NO NO AND THRICE NO !

OFB

@selwynoz

Or even if we had two defenders who could clear a ball of the line before it went into goal !

OFB