@gt You could say, I am biased, but I thought some of his decisions poor, certainly against us.
Well for the neutral that was a good match, my opinion the officiating was poor, but I still don't want VAR in championship, some of our defending left a lot to be desired and we lost the ball too many times in midfield. We gave it a go but came up short. Still not sure what happened for their 2nd goal and for their first still think official should have flagged for offside at start of move. Two great goals from latte, will their be clubs trying to entice himalayas in summer? Was everywhere, thought Bangura did well when he came on.
As the great sage once said it is what it is UTB........
Just like to say, I nominate Latte Lath player of the year
Disappointed but pleased if that makes sense. For me the great bonus is Latte Lath and here's hoping that he can only get better now that he seems settled and, hopefully, injury free. All-in-all a fine performance despite the shortcomings we all know about.
OFB, you have to say what the score is going to be not just Boro 3! I hope you didn't spill red wine on the carpet if you were watching at home. All round a good showing, I feel little optimism setting in. Maybe I shouldn't have said that.
All the best everyone.
UTB,
John
Well who would have thought that was going to be the final score John ?
we braved the weather and went and pleased we did 🤔
best home game I’ve watched this season!
OFB
@original-fat-bob Another of the proverbial coupon busters from Boro. In my mind I though 2-2 but what do any of us know, the rub of the green and it could have been 3-3. But it wasn't although Boro did turn up and go toe to toe with them.
Considering there was nothing to play for it wasn't a bucket and spades waiting for season's end kind of match! Importantly you were there!
UTB,
John
The general quality of the officials in The Championship leaves a lot to be desired. I don’t want VAR either but I would like to see some effort put in by the powers that be to improve the standard of both the referees and the linesmen. If the 2 points won by Leeds last night with a goal that was blatantly offside gets them automatic promotion at the expense of another club (e.g. Ipswich) then the club losing out will rightly be very unhappy about it. It will cost them vast sums of money. OK, it’s never possible to eliminate every mistake by the officials but it must be possible to reduce them to a minimum and certainly below the frequency we have seen this season.
i agree with the comments made above about Latte Lath. His two goals last night were both superb and he is an absolute must keep for next season. But his contribution to results will be restricted unless money is spent on beefing up the quality of our defending.
Well - a good game to watch. Some good goals and some bad ones (how do we explain the Bamford goal where our keeper and defender left the ball for Bamford to use his body to deflect the ball into the net?). For me, a keeper has to claim the ball so deep in his penalty area. I was listening to BBC Tees commentary whilst at the stadium watching the game, and I liked the comment which went comething along the lines of: "When the ball was in their penalty area Meslier wiped out Latte Lath to prevent him scoring, even if Jones managed to put the rebound in the net, but Senny Dieng dithered and he and the defender allowed Bamford to pout it in the net...."
But lots of excitement and some hope for the future if we can keep Lath fit next season. In fact, if we can keep SEVERAL players in our squad fit, it would be an improvement. Some who'd you expect to be regulars have been bit-part players this season. I guess several will go at the end of the season but hopefully the "acqusitions team" will be on form as they were with Latte Lath, Rogers and VDB this season (a successful crop for a reasonable outlay - let's repeat it this summer, please).
I have to say (repeat?) that if Silvera gets a regular game for Australia, that international team must be struggling. Dijksteel looked slow and out of sorts but he has played very little in recent months. Barlaser passes well, sometimes very well, when BORO plays on the front foot with plenty of possession in the opposititon half, and if he is to give the ball away (as he often does) it's much safer for BORO that he does so upfield rather than in defence. Lath, apart from scoring goals, has LOADS of energy and speed and I think he must have covered every blade of grass on the pitch last night. He is such a positive this season. I think Azaz is improving. He is still young and I think there is reason to believe he can do well for the club in the future. I'd love to see Gilbert and Matthews given game-time now.
Mostly I'm delighted that OFB reconsidered and decided to go to the match last night rather than watch on TV. Apart from a ritual moan at the East Stand assistant referee (as we are supposed to call them, now) there was so much to enjoy about the game. But maybe someone who DID watch the match on Sky could tell me what the TV commentators thought about the "offside" decisions-that-weren't-given in the first half? Did Boro get the traditional brush-off from the TV people?
Please forgive the typos at the end of the first paragraph: comething/something and pout/put....
@forever-dormo The short answer to your question is that the TV peeps spotted the offside immediately and it was clearly flagged as a lucky break for Leeds. They all seemed to enjoy the game - high quality entertainment. Like us, they also recognised it was Boro mistakes that gifted both the penalty and the goal that Bamford "pouted" into the net.
Like everyone who has commented I too enjoyed the game and was happily surprised that Boro did give it all. Apart from the defensive lapses, the only other thing I would comment on is that while we absolutely dominated in the second half, it was without any intensity until the last 10 minutes or so when we actually looked like we were going to hang, draw and quarter them. Even the TV peeps commented, given another 10 minutes and Boro could probably have won. I think that one lesson to take from this is that we need to play with that level of intensity from the off.
Lots to look forward to for next season. Still a couple of games to look forward to this season if we put in another two performances like that.
I watched the game on Sky and, despite the loss, enjoyed the performances of both teams. I’ve said before that I don’t think Dijksteel is ideal as our full back. There’s something about him which makes me think he lacks a bit of bite and composure - for me, he doesn’t look as though he wants it enough.
On the offside call(s), we’d be fuming if we were still challenging for a play off position and rightly so. As it is, it’s likely to be Ipswich and Leicester who feel most aggrieved.
There’s still plenty to be positive about and hopefully lots to build on for next season.
@forever-dormo Powmill is correct, in that the commentators acknowledged the offside, however not as vehement as some of us though.
Looking back to last summer and the recruitement,I think we have to agree that they have not done too bad with their selection.
Dieng is doing OK, but could do better. He was at fault for the second goal in my opinion and then there was the pass to O’Brien.
VDB has shown his worth, as has Clarke, 14 months later. Engels? Bangura, possibly OK?
Barlaser, is not showing as a first 11 pick and neither is Azaz at the moment. Must do better.
Latte Lath is now showing potential, but next season will be the test. He does need support though.
Silvera, Dormo, you are right, I just do not see a Championship player there.
O’Brien tick, Greenwood a no.
Of course as you said, we have to be disappointed with Hackney, McGree and Forss.
Powmill, I think it it very difficult to maintain the level of intensity that we expect at times. Especially when the players know MC is reluctant to change until late in the game.
I watched Latte Cappuccino during the game live and again this morning on sky. A few of us who were watching from the stands remarked upon how he was the Boro player who was chasing back and defending and clearing balls from our penalty area whilst defenders and midfield players were still jogging back.
A superb all round performance which will not have gone unnoticed by quite a few predators!
OFB
I may have said before, that we should maybe be careful what we ask for as far as promotion is concerned, as this article from the Guardian makes clear:
The game was a cypher for our season in some ways: we gave it a good go but made a few too many mistakes, had a touch of bad luck, and ultimately ran out of time.
If we can have a “normal” amount of injuries next season and add two or three first teamers whilst retaining key players, I expect us to do well next year.
All in all, if we finish 9th then that looks to be about right and pretty fair in my opinion. The table hasn’t lied.
That said, considering the large turnover in the squad and the horrendous injury list, we really haven’t done too badly overall.
Only two games to go, this season, then! I'll have to think about something to write for the Watford final curtain game in a few days or so. We can then all concentrate on camping, cricket (don't remind me!), Wimbledon, the Olympics, some international football tournament and other jolly things. I must say that last night, despite the loss, the walk back to the car was a little more pleasant than the walk to the stadium and certainly more pleasant than the weather during the first half when the skies opened.
Mate to the right of me hasn't been to a single game all season but I think he renewed his season ticket (he didn't go to many last season, apart from some of the earlier games and SURELY he won't renew again?), and my mate who sits to the left of me decided, for various reasons, to stay at home and watch the match on Sky. There were adverts around the ground last night saying something like 3 or 4 times more EFL games being shown on Sky next season. Ignoring the fact that a fair slice of them will feature the "big clubs" like Sheffield United, Burnley and hopefully Everton in place of Forest (maybe even another season of Championship games showcasing Leeds United?) I wondered whether that factor would discourage more from going to the match, in person. There have been a few cold, windy and wet nights this season when I have wondered about my sanity.
Still, there will be plenty of opportunity during the summer months (if summer is still a "thing" these days) to discuss VAR, the lack of "trickle down funding" from the Premier League to grass roots clubs, the removal of FA Cup replays and the apparent surprise that supporters of lower league clubs (and those lower league clubs themselves) might be very much opposed to that step kindly taken by the "authorities" in order to protect the interests of the billionaire owners and millionaire players. Even some of the supporters of the billionaire/state-owned clubs (like Newcastle) are now complaining that the Big Six (didn't Everton used to be one of them?) are attempting to change the rules and raising the drawbridge to prevent THEIR clubs joining the big party. It almost as if somebody had hypnotised the big clubs' chairmen and owners into acting in a way that inevitably leads to the imposition of an Independent Football Regulator. There will be some squealing. But that will be sometime later. As will be the result of the 115 charges of financial impropriety/breach of financial rules by Manchester City, although I suspect that Venus de Milo will have grown new arms before those marathon investigations and proceedings are concluded. It's a good job that this is all a game!
Lots of great posts, friends!
Someone commented above that Bangura might be the answer to our left-back issue. I think he certainly did enough last night in his short cameo to suggest that might be the case. I think he is stronger going forward than Engel, is able to take on his man and put in a good cross, and has loads of pace. I guess we haven’t yet seen enough of his defensive capabilities, but at the very least we might be able to use him as a left-sided forward player (perhaps with Engel behind him?) either in his own right or when McGree isn’t available.
Like many on the forum, I really enjoyed the game. Carrick was right to go with a more expansive approach rather than parking the bus like we did vs Leicester. He will have learned more about the team and defence in particular. We still have issues with teams transitioning quickly from defence to attack. The good news is that we won't face 2 speedster wingers that Leeds possess, on a regular basis next season. My only other observation is that Championship players not only need football nous and skill but also physicality. Azaz and Silveira seemed lacking in this department getting muscled of the ball. Maybe they will fill out in years to come? Onto next season, we definitely need a new right back and striking partner for ELL who is more impressive by the day. I can see why Paddy may go as we have a surplus of central defenders with RDB a fixture along with Clarke with Fry and Lenihan also due to return. Good luck to Paddy on maintaining his current wage but it is something that a lower PL could afford but certainly not a Championship club with a much lower level of funding. UTB
There is only limited info about injuries. Some we know including some out for the season but I’ve seen little about Hackney’s injury. At one time he was back in the squad but not in recent games. Hope it’s not mega serious as he’s a crucial player for the team .
Philip of Huddersfield
Who would have thought that a home defeat to Leeds on a miserable Monday night could put us all in such a good mood. As suggested by Martin's Guardian article, we're approaching that time of year when euphoria that the fans of three teams will soon feel, may gradually mix with apprehension about what humiliations might lie in the season ahead.
Looking at how many injuries we have had there are only three players who have made over 30 starts this season, Howson(33) Dieng (33) and van den Berg(31). Silvera has played 36 times but only 12 starts. Last season there were 8 who played over 30 and four played over 40. It is not surprising that the season has been a bit up and down.
The success or not of the recruitment team over last summer is an interesting debate.
I would class Dieng, VdB and ELL as successes but would say the jury is out on Glover, Bangura, Engel, Azaz and Silvera. They may yet come good but I wouldn’t go far enough to say they’ve been successes yet.
Jamie Jones hasn’t played at all and Gilbert hasn’t had much more involvement.
Thr loan players I would discount as I suspect they were more players the manager and coaches went for but that may be unfair.
Morgan Rogers has to qualify as a great success purely on the fee received, which may well have paid for everyone else.
So 4 hits out of 11 (might have forgotten someone) but others who may join that list next season.
It’s not overwhelming as a percentage but looks a lot better when factoring in the money involved.
Perhaps that will turn out to be the key difference - the success % may be around what we’ve always had but the fees and wages involved are much lower and the sale fees are higher.
Not sure what that will translate to in terms of success in the field but it will do nicely, I’m sure, off the field.
@philip-of-huddersfield Yes very tight lipped on the HH situation. About 3/4 weeks ago, it must be now, it showed him kicking the ball on grass, at Rockcliffe, in some type of training exercise with other players.This was on a local TV round up. BBC I think.
Very strange.
I thought Alex Gilbert showed promise when he came on. First playing on the right, then shifting to centre mid, then finishing on the right. He always looks to play a forward pass which is interesting.
i also thought Bangura considering he has just returned from injury was full of running and energy and one to keep.
I don’t expect HH Hoppe O Brien Greenwood McGree Thomas McNair or Glover to remain at the club which again is quite a turnover in players.
Whilst I’ve given criticism of Azaz previously I thought he had his best game for us against Leeds.
OFB
As I say, the likes of Gilbert and Bangura may yet turn out to be great long term signings but as it stands, due to game time, it's difficult to class them as successful signings. There again, what criteria do you measure against and over what time frame? Three people might have three different answers.
I hope you're wrong about HH and McGree. I'd be happy enough to see O'Brien and Ayling back as well but suspect they won't be.
Andy R and OFB: In my opinion I take into account that a few of the players bought were classed as potential for the future but because of the injuries suffered by Boro they were thrown in a lot earlier than planned. I also take into account that some players have come from different countries into what is described as a tough English league, such as Engel, Bangura, Silvera, therefore I am not prepared to write them off, even Luke Thomas showed his potential (at times) in the Leeds game. I have always thought that Alex Gilbert has something about him and will play a bigger part in seasons to come. I don’t need to justify Latte Lath, I would also like us to buy (or another season loan with option to buy) Lewis O’Brien, Finn Azaz is definitely worth keeping after his first season in the championship, so by my reckoning it’s more than 4 hits out of 11, that’s without our established players.
I would like to see the evidence that players like McGree, Hackney etc are leaving, is it because they have been out injured for a while, if so, are Lenihan, Smith, Forss also going to leave, please don’t say I saw it on X (formerly twitter) other unreliable sources are available. It was reported in the Gazette Live that talks were in progress with Carrick, McGree, Howson Jones and Hackney (who still has 2 years left after this season) Jones deal has been completed, who is next 🤔. It also could mean, like many on here said early that Boro were not going to make the playoffs, the management decided to “mothball” some players, that they will be 100% recovered to start pre season 🤔, as it was stated by Carrick that Hackney had a couple of minor setbacks when he returned to training.
All in all, I think we are in a good position going into this next transfer window and I believe the club will spend money to bring in 2/3 established players plus some more potential, maybe a couple of loans too. I put my trust in Kieran Scott and his scouting team working alongside Micheal Carrick, true not every player bought will be a success, no club has 100% record, it’s about building a team that is sustainable, if and when we get into the premiership.
Come on BORO.
Just a further comparison on recruitment, I thought it would be worth looking back at what is generally regarded as our one of our worst summers: Garry Monk's ahead of 2017/18.
That summer, we brought in 8 new players - 3 fewer than last summer. They were:
- Britt Assombalonga
- Martin Braithwaite
- Ashley Fletcher
- Jonny Howson
- Darren Randolph
- Ryan Shotton
- Cyrus Christie
- Marvin Johnson
How many of those would we consider to be a hit? Well, all eight of them went on to make quite a few appearances for the club, so on that basis they all made some kind of impact and more of an impact than several of this summer's signings.
Certainly Howson and Randolph have to considered as successes. Christie I liked and Shotton I grew to like. Johnson did ok at times. Braithwaite was clearly a very good player but it didn't work for him once Pulis came in and, along with Britt and Fletcher, you'd have to put him in the failed camp.
So, if we say Christie and Shotton were half successes, that was probably 3 hits out of 8. Which, in one of the worst transfer windows of the last 10 years, works out at roughly the same success percentage as we had last summer.
The difference, of course, was that Monk's window cost around £50m, whereas from last summer we are probably in profit overall.
That said, with the sales of De Roon, Rhodes, Gaston, Stuani and more, plus the parachute payments back in 2017, the outlay was more comparable. It was the ongoing wages that killed us.
It's quite interesting therefore that the perception of both windows is so far apart.
I take your point and of course it's all subjective anyway but I just can't see how any of the signings outside of ELL, RvdB and Dieng could be classed as successes at this point.
Several of them could go on to be classed as such in future but I couldn't say it now. Many of them haven't had the opportunity, be it via injury or selection, to be considered a success.
That's different to saying they are failed signings, just that I don't think they are successes at this point.
@andy-r : You seem to have forgotten Rogers who came in for £1M (?) and was gone again for £10M plus add-ons (less a share to ManC) within 6 months. He's now getting regular games for Villa in the PL and in European games. So if we add him to Latte Lath, RvdB and Dieng, that gives us FOUR clear successful purchases in the last 12 months and, in my view in light of his age and his improvement in recent months, Azaz will probably be added to that list. Five would be a decent proportion.
I think Barlaser can be OK if played further upfield.
Yes, I included him in my original post as the standout success to make 4/11 overall.
I too hope that Azaz will be added to that list in time as well as Bangura/Engel and Silvera, who all look to have something to offer if it can be honed and harnessed.