Discussion Forum

Boro lodge Multi Mi...
 

Boro lodge Multi Million £ Claim at Derby

 

Original Fat Bob
Member
Joined: 1 year ago
Posts: 1086
Topic starter  
Very Interesting News 
 
 
It would seem that perhaps the active lobbying by Boro against the alleged financial irregularities carried out by Derby is one of the main reasons why Derby were deducted points.
 
I wonder what the chances are of receiving any financial recompense from a Club in Administration!
 
OFB

 

Quote
Ken Smith
Mr
Joined: 1 year ago
Posts: 1093
 

I must say that it’s Derby’s fans that  I feel sorry for but not the club, as I am for Notts County two founder members of the original First Division, but in Derby’s case  they broke the rules. However both clubs are still alive and have chances to rectify their current positions in the future, whereas Bury have become a dormant football club with no league to play in. One wonders though whether Boro fans would have received similar sympathy if Boro had not survived in 1986. 

 

 

This post was modified 2 weeks ago by Ken Smith

ReplyQuote
Ken Smith
Mr
Joined: 1 year ago
Posts: 1093
 

The Premier League are to provide £20M extra funding to League 1 and 2 clubs suffered by the Coronavirus endemic and £5M to clubs in the 3 National Leagues. How that funding will be split between clubs has not yet been decided, but it will be a much needed bonus for the pyramid system in hoplng that no clubs face winding-up orders.


Redcar Red
Member
Joined: 2 years ago
Posts: 843
 
Posted by: @ken

I must say that it’s Derby’s fans that  I feel sorry for but not the club, as I am for Notts County two founder members of the original First Division, but in Derby’s case  they broke the rules. However both clubs are still alive and have chances to rectify their current positions in the future, whereas Bury have become a dormant football club with no league to play in. One wonders though whether Boro fans would have received similar sympathy if Boro had not survived in 1986. 

 

 

My memories from 1986 are that outside of Teesside nobody was particularly bothered or interested although in fairness this was before the age of social media. Most other clubs fans probably would have taken a few weeks to realise and ask "where have Middlesbrough gone, they aren't showing in the league table?"


Clive Hurren
Member
Joined: 1 year ago
Posts: 159
 

Thanks for that piece of news regarding Steve Gibson and DCFC, OFB. I didn’t know Boro had filed a claim. 

Strikes me as a bit over-optimistic, and actually, rather silly. I don’t know how Derby benefited at our expense when we finished 7th and they made the play-offs. I do know that under Pulis that season we simply weren’t good enough. I think Wycombe probably have a more justifiable claim, given that Derby should have been relegated instead of WWFC, had the EFL acted with the speed it should have. 

Personally, I’m happy that the EFL has at last bitten the bullet and docked Derby 21 points. It may be some considerable time before we meet them in league competition again. Let sleeping dogs lie now would be my view. Whatever we think of the cheating of their owners, I think their fans have suffered enough. 


ReplyQuote
jarkko
Member
Joined: 1 year ago
Posts: 843
 

Can we have the points reduced from Derby County?  At least the three points missing from 1997.  UBT!


ReplyQuote
Ken Smith
Mr
Joined: 1 year ago
Posts: 1093
 

@clive-hurren  

Wise words. Let sleeping dogs lie, or even sleeping rams.

This post was modified 2 weeks ago by Ken Smith

Liked by Clive Hurren
ReplyQuote
Forever Dormo
Member
Joined: 1 year ago
Posts: 112
 

@clive-hurren: I am currently in the North West Highlands of Scotland and I have therefore only just had the opportunity to read the last few posts - I may get on to the Millwall thread next.....

But to answer the point raised, it might be said that financial irregularities made an un-level playing field.  That paved the way to Derby finishing in the play-offs whilst Boro finished 7th (immediately below the play-off positions).  Now, as a result of that financial cheating, Boro was robbed of the opportunity to seek promotion through the play-offs - and the pots of Premier League money which would follow if successful - whilst Derby County was able to profit from its breaking of the rules by being able to take part in that end-of-season winner-takes all competition.  I am GUESSING that will be the argument.


ReplyQuote
Redcar Red
Member
Joined: 2 years ago
Posts: 843
 
Posted by: @clive-hurren

Thanks for that piece of news regarding Steve Gibson and DCFC, OFB. I didn’t know Boro had filed a claim. 

Strikes me as a bit over-optimistic, and actually, rather silly. I don’t know how Derby benefited at our expense when we finished 7th and they made the play-offs. I do know that under Pulis that season we simply weren’t good enough. I think Wycombe probably have a more justifiable claim, given that Derby should have been relegated instead of WWFC, had the EFL acted with the speed it should have. 

Personally, I’m happy that the EFL has at last bitten the bullet and docked Derby 21 points. It may be some considerable time before we meet them in league competition again. Let sleeping dogs lie now would be my view. Whatever we think of the cheating of their owners, I think their fans have suffered enough. 

From memory didn't Derby offer Waghorn some outlandish wage packet when we were in for him (something like more than double our offer). In hindsight they done us a favour ironically but that wasn't the point at the time. Then there is the case of the squad they assembled by flouting the rules meaning that they had better Players than they otherwise would have done thereby giving them a competitive advantage. 

If a Sunday Pub Team turned up with Messi and Ronaldo in their ranks you would have to question the fairness and ethics involved. Derby tried to do the same (obviously even Mel Morris couldn't have afforded those two) at Championship level when they couldn't afford it. It gave them a 20 metre head start in a 100 metre race.

Even the recruitment of Rooney was fudged, supposedly "sponsored" as a player/coach to get around the rules. Then there is the farcical saga of valuing a Stadium at a grossly inflated amount to try and get out of the mess that Morris had got them into and that's only a few things. Just a shame they never got around to putting that roof on after all, who'd have thought it!

I feel sorry for their everyday supporters but zero sympathy for DCFC, all my sympathy goes to Wycombe who were cheated out of the Championship by Derby by blatantly delaying and shrouding their mess to drag it out until the end of last season or in other words cheating to the bitter end. There isn't a sporting or ethical bone in the entire Club or at least there wasn't while Morris was in charge.

They finished a point above us to reach the Play Offs at our expense. Personally I blame Pulis and all those pitiful displays near the end more than Derby but without the calibre of Players they signed it is more than reasonable to conclude that they would have had at least one or two points less that season if indeed not a lot more. Just as Wycombe were robbed at the bottom end we were robbed at the opposite end of the Championship table.

It may seem petty of SG to keep chewing away but we have been victim to rules being applied but other instances seem to be dealt with less severely or indeed conveniently ignored (Mascherano and Tevez come to mind). If there are rules the authorities should enforce them fairly and equally, they didn't and they don't. If Gibson hadn't continually chased, harangued and made a nuisance of himself causing endless embarrassment to the EFL they would have swept this entire affair under the carpet which is exactly why Morris had the temerity in the first instance.

Now it's started I don't think morally SG can do anything other than take it to the ultimate conclusion. Had the EFL managed the situation correctly he wouldn't have had to get involved at all. The consequence of all this is that the EFL will I suspect be less likely to be sleeping on the job in future and other Clubs may just rein in their excesses and in doing so stop genuine fans from losing more Clubs.


K P in Spain
Member
Joined: 1 year ago
Posts: 849
 

@redcarred.  Very good post RR with which I agree wholeheartedly.  

The only answer to all this in the future is for the EFL to do their job properly and that includes relegating teams, in my view, who have flouted the FS rules but it probably won’t happen. 😎


Clive Hurren
Member
Joined: 1 year ago
Posts: 159
 

RR and KP

Very good points, well made! 


ReplyQuote
Powmill-Naemore
Member
Joined: 2 years ago
Posts: 382
 

Absolutely right RR. Excellent post.


ReplyQuote
Original Fat Bob
Member
Joined: 1 year ago
Posts: 1086
Topic starter  

Statement 

 

quote 

 

Looks like Steve Gibson will be compensated by Derby….

"By way of key matters still to resolve, later this month we expect to have identified a preferred buyer and made progress with ongoing discussions with HMRC, Middlesbrough Football Club and Wycombe Wanderers FC,"

 

Unquote

 

OFB


Liked by lenmasterman
ReplyQuote
Forever Dormo
Member
Joined: 1 year ago
Posts: 112
 

@original-fat-bob:
I don't hold myself out as knowing a great deal about insolvency (and it's possible you will know more about this that I do) but I wouldn't guarantee Boro will get much.

There are various categories of creditors who are paid in turn if there is an insolvency.  Prior to 2002 the HMRC was treated as a Preferential Creditor, but after that it was relegated in seniority.  Basically the groups are:

1. Secured creditors with a fixed charge (eg a bank which is owed money secured by a mortgage on company property).

2. Preferential creditors (eg staff who are owed arrears of wages including holiday pay up to a maximum of £800).

3. Secured creditors with a floating charge on other assets of the company.

4. Unsecured creditors which now include HMRC.

5. Shareholders are always last, if the others are paid out, and obviously SOME debts might only be paid at "so many pence in the pound" (ie a percentage of the debt). Of course if there is limited amount in the pot, it may be open to people who are owed money at the end of this list, who might get nothing, to reach a compromise themselves to receive X pence in the pound to settle their claim, rather than risking getting nothing at all or wasting most of it in costs....  Is a £100K "bird in the hand" better than a minimal chance of catching that £10M "bird in the nest" you might never catch at all?

 

This post was modified 1 day ago by Forever Dormo

ReplyQuote
Original Fat Bob
Member
Joined: 1 year ago
Posts: 1086
Topic starter  

@forever-dormo

Youbare so right and I’ve been at the end I if the queue when companies have gone belly up on me and I’ve ended up with nowt !

so in  Boro’s case I expect nowt and we probably won’t get nowt !

OFB


ReplyQuote
K P in Spain
Member
Joined: 1 year ago
Posts: 849
 

@forever-dormo. Excellent summary of how creditors are paid in the event of liquidation albeit I always thought that HMRC take precedent over all non secured creditors. 

From what I have been reading the Administrators are talking about doing a deal with HMRC and looking for them to write off c. 75% of the debt which I cannot believe they would do given the precedent it would set for all the other clubs on the brink of going out of business. 

I would be very surprised if Derby survive this and don’t hold out much hope of MFC receiving very much. 😎

This post was modified 1 day ago by K P in Spain

ReplyQuote
Share: