Very good discussion on the controversial red card.
I thought it ridiculously harsh.
Then Bob changed my mind with his excellent and authoritative post.
Then Powmill's citing of Law 12 made me think it fell under the category of "reckless" rather than "excessive force".
It wasn't much of a throw, more a bounce against the back of Riley's head.
Andy summed it up admirably. It was just daft, and the lad's stupidity gave the ref a decision to make.
Had I been the ref I would have given a yellow, but Bob's arguments on the consequences of not battening down on this kind of behaviour remain powerful and, as he says, we won't see any more such examples as a result of this red, and that is probably the clinching argument.
The whole debate another wonderful example of the qualities of this blog: an informed, intelligent and civilised discussion which leaves us all the wiser and more aware of the complexities of the topic under consideration.
Thanks gentlemen.
Bonetti played because Banks was stricken with food poisoning. It wasn’t his best game……..
As with Len the England defeat in that game has left an indelible scar!!
I have to agree that for intensity and skill that the 1970 World Cup Final was the greatest. Yes I did see all of Pele’s World Cup matches on television, and was disappointed with the treatment that Pele received in 1966. However the first final I saw on television was in Berne in 1954 and I wrote about it recently. Hungary and West Germany were in the same group and the Magyars won that match 8-3. However the two countries were to meet again in the Final in which Hungary soon established a 2-0 lead only to concede two goals soon after, and eventually triumphed 3-2.
Hungary were the unofficial World Champions at the time and had become the first country outside of the British Isles to beat England at Wembley and by a margin of 6-3. It was certainly a wake-up call for English football, but no fluke as they repeated the dose 7-1 in Budapest the following year. Ference Puskas was the star playing in front of a deep-lying centre forward called Nandor Hidekuti against an England side still playing an outmoded 2-3-5 system. I believe it was Don Revie who was the first Englishman to copy Hidekuti’s role. The Magyars had overtaken Austria as the top side in Europe at the time, remaining unbeaten for 5 years including being the Olympic Football Champions also during that unbeaten run.
I missed the 1958 World Cup Final as I was completing my National Service in Singapore where television had yet to be introduced, and for different reasons I also missed all of this year’s World Cup coverage preferring to watch Boro video recordings and the Pakistan v England cricket series.
Thanks @boroexile .
Now you say that I do recall now that it was a bout of food poisoning that kept Banks out.
It was a shame for Peter Bonetti to have been the focus of attention for that game as he really was a fine and very agile keeper, nicknamed "The Cat" if my memory serves me.
@powmillnaemore Was that the WC where Bobby Moore was accused of shoplifting an item of jewellery?
Yes. England had played a friendly in Colombia before going on to Mexico and Bobby Moore was accused of stealing a bracelet in a jewellery shop in Bogotá. He hadn’t and it may have been a set up in an attempt to unsettle the England camp.
@martin-bellamy it was indeed. He was accused while en route to Guadalajara, as I recall.
He was indeed called “The Cat” and he did take a lot of stick for his poor performance in that game. Much of it was probably unfair but it was a massive game and as a goalkeeper you are very exposed if you make a cock-up.
@powmillnaemore - I went to a lecture presented by the England Team Doctor (Dr Neil Phillips) at school. He was one of the two England football team doctors for the 1966 World Cup and the team doctor for the 1970 World Cup in Mexico - to which you referred. Dr Phillips was a Redcar GP and Club Doctor at MFC and had been invited to be part of the England set-up which was of particular importance as England's games were played at high altitude in Guadalajara. Of course Harold Shepherdson, the England squad trainer/coach with those squads, was also at MFC and did his duty at Caretaker Manager at MFC on 4 occasions over the years.
Dr Phillips explained that the team had been kept up all night by Mexico fans (who definitely didn't want England to win). Many Mexicans drove around the team hotel in their cars, with their horns blaring for hours on end, throughout the night. The next day Gordon Banks was very unwell with food poisoning (foul play was suspected) and wasn't well enough to play. As a result Bonetti played. If this was a comedy, I would have concluded by saying in respect of Bonetti's performance that "hilarity ensued" but that would be going too far.
Known as "The Cat", Bonetti must have lost all 9 of his lives that day. He did not cover himself in glory. England, 2-0 up against West Germany, took off Bobby Charlton to "rest him" for the next round - which became irrelevant as, with Beckenbauer freed to move upfield and pull the strings, Germany scored 3 to win the game.
@forever-dormo I remember Charlton coming off and, even then, realising the inevitability of what was going to happen. Typical England 😉