The Guardian have reported today (Crisis may lead to Premier League B teams in EFL) that Manchester City’s chief executive, Ferran Soriano, is calling for a rethink of the football pyramid to allow for the inclusion of Premier League B teams after describing the EFL’s business model as “not sustainable enough.”
It would seem to suggest that any financial bailout from the rich PL clubs may well come with strings, who it seems are determined to give their ever-bloated squads some competitive football so that they can keep hold of their young players rather than sell them when they complain of lack of opportunities.
After skewing the top division to be a Champions League qualifying competition, they now it appears would like to control the lower tiers in order to serve as a training league for the hoovered up future talent.
It would make a nonsense of football if they got their way and would further erode the notion of supporters having a local team that competed on relatively level terms and could one day maybe make it to the big time. Instead, it may end up being a case of making up the numbers in a league dominated by Man City B, Liverpool B, Arsenal B, Man Utd B, Chelsea B and Spurs B with big-club resources behind them.
Perhaps the time has come for the EFL to forget about any bailout as surely the price will be too high to pay. Far better for the whole league to go into administration and get itself on a secure financial footing than basically become the training league for the ever richer clubs owned by billionaires who always want more - I think we all know which clubs the TV companies will focus on!
OK, perhaps the Championship will become essentially a Premier League 2 but the third tier may well become nothing more than the Premier League B team league like it is in Soriano's home country of Spain. So will Covid herald the end of the football pyramid or is there still a place for all 92 clubs in the shrinking money-driven business of English football?
Interesting piece Werder.
To be honest with you, I can't see professional football surviving the way it is while Covid plays out.
It could be more than one more year...I've heard some considered opinion it could be five... before we get back to a 'normal' way of life.
Even in one year, I can see some professional clubs going under as the business is absolutely unsustainable for most without fans being able to attend.
The live TV years have destroyed football as most of us in here grew up with. So, perhaps it is quite plausible that the next tier down from the top, or maybe top two, divisions/leagues will be where the reserves play.
The PL would be more than happy to have a PL, A and B. They don’t care about leagues 1 and 2. Any overtures must be firmly resisted. The future of football is on the line here.
The fans must make their voices heard, they have the upper hand now, without them there is no football anywhere. If only there was a robust Supporters Association that would refuse to Kow Tow to the big clubs.
Football should be on the fans terms, not the TV companies.
Let’s be realistic football at the moment has become a sterile experience. The novelty of games being played in empty stadiums is wearing off. The EFL should call a halt to the season and recommence when it is possible giving the game back to the fans.
It's clear that clubs who depend on gate income cannot survive a prolonged period without supporters - though if restrictions last several years I suspect the problems of football clubs will be dwarfed by the impact on our lives and livelihoods and the wider economy.
Of course, the Premier League is almost immune to the financial problems associated with not having supporters in he ground as each clubs starts with at least a £100m in their bank thanks to TV money - plus many are now owned by billionaires, whose problem is not finding the cash but being restricted from spending more than they are allowed.
Therefore, it's quite rich for Ferran Soriano to claim the EFL is not sustainable when his own club were recently charged with being in breach of financial fair play rules. Even the richest clubs in the PL, who have turnovers over £400m still run at a loss with some carrying paper debts that run into the hundreds of millions.
The football pyramid is running essentially on the trickle-down economics of the 1980s, where all the money is concentrated at the top but as we can see it struggles to reach clubs in Leagues One and Two. Indeed, the main reason most clubs struggle is that the disparity in income between each step in the pyramid causes many clubs to spend beyond their means to breach the wealth gap.
League One sees many clubs who have fallen into the trap of trying to compete financially to make the step up to the Premier League. What is not sustainable is in fact the gap between leagues in the football pyramid as clubs can't neither handle the income shock of relegation or the price of trying to enter the big time.
I ha e sympathy with your sentiments GHW but the trouble is without any I come I to the game, many more clubs will go to the wall. Trying to keep things going, no matter how sterile that is, at least keepa some income to the game in general that may keep more clubs alive than otherwise.
Not to make excuses for the governing bodies, but they are damned if they so and damned if the don't in the current scenario.
I think supporters can only do so much and we now know the consequence of supporters boycotting turning up at stadiums. Perhaps supporters of lower league clubs could boycott their Sky subscriptions and hit the PL clubs indirectly - however, the PL has become a global brand that increasingly gets its income from abroad. I think the only way the financial model will change is through regulation by the football authorities but it seems they are reluctant to act.
Just look at what happened when push came to shove when Man City were in breach of FFP - their ban was overturned and their billionaire owners were given a 'slap on the wrist' fine for overspending. It doesn't seem like a deterrent to make owners who want to inject more cash than is allowed a fine.
I suspect as long as the fans turn up at PL clubs stadiums to provide the optics on TV then there's little supporters of smaller clubs can do other than risk their own clubs going under.
"... What is not sustainable is in fact the gap between leagues in the football pyramid as clubs can't neither handle the income shock of relegation or the price of trying to enter the big time."
I agree Werder.
This all ultimately falls out of the breakaway Premier League whose founding father's sole objective was to ring fence more of the TV income for the elite.
I don't suspect any of the top clubs realise that if they allow the grass roots and supporting tiers of the game to wither, they ultimately will destroy the attraction of their own 'product'.
The problem is football has essentially become a business rather than a sport and the chief executives of the rich clubs only look at how they can grow their own 'brand'. I've heard many people in the last month against a bailout of lower-league clubs, from managers, club executives and business journalist argue that why should the richer clubs help their competitors as that wouldn't happen in other business sectors. It seems the notion that football is first a sport and then a business is becoming an unfashionable view with many. As you say the reason the PL exists is that those at the top wanted a bigger slice of the cake - now they want to have their cake and eat it but they also want to eat the crumbs too!
Are we confident that any football below the Premier League will still be played after Christmas? I still see players over-celebrating goals and some members of the public not wearing masks when in close proximity to each other. Are we becoming closer to Armageddon through the selfishness and stupidity of some people? Or is that too far fetched?
Its not just a Football problem, there is a greed culture in society which probably goes back to the loadsamoney Harry Enfield era and has continued unabated.
The Premiership and the Champions League are just the obscene manifestation of excesses in Football but it exists in other Industries and Sectors where the big, strong and mighty crush opposition, buy up competitors and become almost untouchable. We have have multi billionaires crying to Governments looking for bail outs, we have seen Governments give contracts to mates who have zero skills or experience in the related fields. The EFL have shown themselves to be unfit for purpose and then further afield in the sport we had the Septic Bladder affair and many others crawling out from under their rocks.
I see a lot of reaction to symptoms rather than dealing with causes both in Football and with our Politicians. That Premiership Clubs are allowed to Hoover up Players and store them or lend them as they see fit has destroyed the lower levels of the game. That these lower level clubs have to pay a "loan fee" and wage contributions to hire players is a huge part of the problem which now extends across International Boundaries.
That the rich Premiership sides have to announce their squads shortly is a positive step but it doesn't go far enough. Their Squads should be limited to 40 contracted players at the club (maybe 45 or 50 even) in total including their "B" players. Gone are the days when Bury would sell one of their up and coming Players to Man City for a small relative fortune. The money in those days used to trickle through the system as we well know with the transfers of Souness, Johnston, Mills, Pallister etc.
As Werder has said it is just business now and the FA and EFL have allowed that to happen, they sold the soul of the game for a lot more than 40 pieces of silver. I've mentioned it before but the matches being played out at the minute bear no resemblance to Football to me, just a means to get TV money into the uber rich and to shut the plebs up by throwing them crumbs off the cake. There is about as much chance of it changing as there is Global Corporations and Presidents paying their fair share of the tax burden.
In response to the richest clubs getting richer a post today from AV regarding the news that Adama Traore made his first team debut for Spain. He retweeted the article he wrote when he was at the Gazette and Traore still at Boro. Will those days ever come back?
OFB
I wasn't confident the season would be completed before it started and unless cases start to fall it's probably a matter of when rather than if there is a widespread lockdown - which would be odd if somehow football or more specifically footballers and other staff would be exempt from mixing closely together.
I don't think you can prevent the virus spreading until there is a vaccine and it's really just a matter of how fast. Numbers are on the rise in Germany too and Bremen just passed the 50 cases per 100,000 mark in the last 7 days, which means people are now expected to wear masks in the office instead of just keeping distance. OK, we live in Lower Saxony, where in our district cases are still below 10 per 100,000 so it's still not a major risk.
Anyway, it seems many of the cases are being driven by socialising, particularly house parties - incidentally, when I picked up my son from Handball training, I noticed three mothers greeted each other by kissing on the cheeks - the problem appears to be that many are still not prepared to avoid the close social contact that makes the spreading of the virus more likely.
If as I fear the season isn’t completed there will be no playoffs, no promotion and no relegation. The richest will survive with the possibility that the clubs in the Premier League may decide that they will retain the status quo forever and to hell with the rest including I’m sad to say the Boro.
The big greedy Premiership clubs have some nerve, Manchester City man saying German Teams buy youngsters from them and sell them back for ten tomes the price. What? you're the clubs buying them. They snoop around 'buying-up' young players the majority of whom are given no chance of truly developing and then loan them out with other teams paying/subsidising, the bulk of their wages. They should put their house in order and cap the amount of players at each Premiership team. Mr Warnock's comments on the subject are dead right.
In my eyes they've been lured to these clubs with a salary the original club's academy or whatever can't afford then they have to be loaned out at a salary the clubs can't afford and so the spiral goes on.
The Premiership does seem to be heading towards wasting talent and now they wish to be in the other divisions eroding the value of the game for fans and 'lesser' smaller clubs. Sorry helping to put The Championship in 'order'. All totally engineered for their benefit. No doubt there would be clause that didn't allow their 'B' teams to be relegated.
Didn't somebody ask Brian Clough why he paid one million for Trevor Francis, I think his answer was along the lines of 'to stop any another team buying him and playing for them'.
The reforms should start at the top not by buggering around with the peoples game.
I'm going back to my nostalgia cabinet now.
Time for a calming beer nurse.
stay safe everyone,
UTB,
John
It’s time for the EFL clubs to refuse taking the Premier League’s fringe and young players on loan.
Is Roberts any better than players we already have?
I suspect the arrival of Roberts will mean one or two of our younger players will have their development stunted - while he may indeed be better than those whose places he takes, he's been loaned to us in order to increase his development so that his employers can either bring him into their team (unlikely) or be able to sell him. If he's a success he will be sold at a price that Boro can't afford, if he's indifferent then maybe we'll be offered the chance to keep him on another loan or at a reduced fee.
In the meantime it's likely that perhaps Spence or Coulson will start far fewer games and perhaps Tavernier will be shifted into different positions to accommodate him. Roberts it seems has been penciled in to play either wide right or in a more central free role, which is where Tav has usually operated so I wouldn't be surprised to see the Boro youngster being tried on the left instead, which will subsequently offer fewer opportunities to Coulson, Johnson or Bola - especially if Warnock brings in a specialist left-sided defender on loan too.
OK, Roberts has the potential to be an important player for Boro but it will only be a short-term fix if he excels and it may come at the cost of losing one of own promising players, who will perhaps look for an opportunity elsewhere. It's a difficult to assess whether he'll make Boro into play-off contenders or even keep us out of relegation trouble, which would make his arrival worth it - but everything in between has a limited overall impact on building a team unless other players are given an equal chance to prove their worth.
I suspect the arrival of Roberts will mean one or two of our younger players will have their development stunted - while he may indeed be better than those whose places he takes, he's been loaned to us in order to increase his development so that his employers can either bring him into their team (unlikely) or be able to sell him. If he's a success he will be sold at a price that Boro can't afford, if he's indifferent then maybe we'll be offered the chance to keep him on another loan or at a reduced fee.
LOL, we can afford Roberts next year after we will be promoted. Still believing in the Warnock barbeque ...
Up the Boro!
I suspect Steve Gibson will need to upstage the Warnock BBQ quite dramatically and go the whole hog if we are somehow promoted this season - we would definitely need to buy quite a few in that scenario as I'm not sure if we have more than a couple of potential PL quality players in the current squad. Although, in the current financial climate we'll be lucky to have sausage left in the bank next season...
I suspect the arrival of Roberts will mean one or two of our younger players will have their development stunted - while he may indeed be better than those whose places he takes, he's been loaned to us in order to increase his development so that his employers can either bring him into their team (unlikely) or be able to sell him. If he's a success he will be sold at a price that Boro can't afford, if he's indifferent then maybe we'll be offered the chance to keep him on another loan or at a reduced fee.
In the meantime it's likely that perhaps Spence or Coulson will start far fewer games and perhaps Tavernier will be shifted into different positions to accommodate him. Roberts it seems has been penciled in to play either wide right or in a more central free role, which is where Tav has usually operated so I wouldn't be surprised to see the Boro youngster being tried on the left instead, which will subsequently offer fewer opportunities to Coulson, Johnson or Bola - especially if Warnock brings in a specialist left-sided defender on loan too.
OK, Roberts has the potential to be an important player for Boro but it will only be a short-term fix if he excels and it may come at the cost of losing one of own promising players, who will perhaps look for an opportunity elsewhere. It's a difficult to assess whether he'll make Boro into play-off contenders or even keep us out of relegation trouble, which would make his arrival worth it - but everything in between has a limited overall impact on building a team unless other players are given an equal chance to prove their worth.
I agree with that Werder and think Roberts' arrival will likely mean Spence will play less. That said, if Spence or Tav had been playing at a high level, it's likely that Roberts wouldn't have been brought in.
If it fits the financial constraints and Warnock thinks that Roberts can make a tangible difference to the teams prospects, then I think he's right to bring him in and effectively challenge those he displaces to improve.
We all want our younger, Academy-developed talent to thrive and have opportunities but equally we need the first team to deliver results, or they'll all be thriving in League One with far greater consequences for the club overall.
I suspect that Tav's performance as right wingback against Barnsley will mean he keeps his place and Spence is benched. Based on Spence's performances so far this season (so-so) and the fact the he is still very inexperienced with just half a season under his belt really, Robert's arrival should be a big boost to the team in my view whilst for Spence it is an opportunity to reflect and to recognise that if you want to play regularly you need to be consistently at or near your best. It's a long season ahead and opportunities will still come his way if he reacts positively.
I agree that our younger players need to become more consistent - indeed as do the more experienced ones - if they are to deserve a start. Of course, playing more games helps them to learn but ten minutes here and there will barely keep them sharp.
Although, if Tav does retain the right wing-back slot then who gets dropped to accommodate Roberts? It could be Bola but who then plays left wing-back? Do we drop one of the two strikers, which would be Akpom if Britt is now the captain? Or one of the three midfielders of Morsy, Saville or Howson? In theory Howson played as the holding midfielder in front of the back three so it would have to be one of the other two.
That's why I suspect Tav could either be shifted to the left or perhaps play in midfield instead of say Saville. Though if it is on the left then there's quite queue forming behind him with Johnson, Coulson and Bola. In which case we may see at least one go out on loan.
Scanning through the major European Leagues and the stages that the top clubs allow reserve teams to participate in their League structures I’ve come across the following examples:-
PORTUGAL
Both Benfica and Porto have reserve teams participating in the SECOND tier of their league structure. Round 5 at the moment.
BELGIUM
Clube Brugge have their Under 23 team participating in the SECOND tier of their league structure. Round 6 at the moment.
SPAIN
Several clubs have reserve teams participating in the THIRD tier in several regional divisions in their league structure. Due to start this weekend.
ITALY
Juventus have their Under 23 team participating in the THIRD tier of their league structure. Round 3 at the moment.
FRANCE
Several clubs have reserve teams participating in the FOURTH tier in several regional divisions in their league structure. Round 7 at the moment.
HOLLAND
I can’t find anything beyond the THIRD tier. Round 5 at the moment.
SCOTLAND
I can’t find anything beyond the Highland and Lowland leagues which are in the FIFTH tiers of the their league structure. All tiers below the Premier League due to start this weekend.
So to recap Portugal, Belgium, Spain, Italy and France do allow clubs reserve teams to participate in their League structures but not to gain promotion. England has the best pyramid system in the World with well over 6,000 clubs but not any of the top 474 of those clubs in the pyramid system are allowed to have a reserve team playing in the top 18 divisions AT THE MOMENT, and long may that rule continue.
Given NW's comments on Northern Ireland's fixture list, I'd expect Saville to drop out for the next game:
Bettinelli
Djiksteel Fry McNair
Tav Howson Morsy Bola/Johnson
Roberts
Assombalonga Akpom
I suspect Steve Gibson will need to upstage the Warnock BBQ quite dramatically and go the whole hog if we are somehow promoted this season - we would definitely need to buy quite a few in that scenario as I'm not sure if we have more than a couple of potential PL quality players in the current squad. Although, in the current financial climate we'll be lucky to have sausage left in the bank next season...
I think the sensible thing to do if we somehow miraculously found ourselves promoted is not to try and build a team capable of surviving in the Premiership but to build a top class affordable and sustainable Championship side that could have a go in the Premiership but come straight back up from the Championship the following season then rinse and repeat.
@Ken Smith
Good research Ken, not forgetting Portugal have their National team playing in the Premier League for Wolves 😉
@andy-r I watched the NI game last night and was impressed with Paddy McNair in midfield he has a lot of energy. Like you I thought of the schedule and both Boro players covered a lot of ground. Agree Saville may be benched as Paddy can play at the back and not cover every blade of grass
Felt sorry for George missing the penna but relieved that it didn’t prove costly
OFB
OK, we may be getting slightly ahead of ourselves over how we could afford Patrick Johnson after he's priced himself out of a permanent move to Teesside with an amazing season that spearheaded Boro's unlikely promotion - especially after notching up our first win of the new campaign against a limited Barnsley side and indeed our first Riverside Championship victory since Boxing Day 2019.
However, I agree that no attempts should be made by Steve Gibson to smash the Premier League and we should invest our lottery money wisely this time 🙂
Covid-19 Alert for Wood
OFB