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Spygate 2 Southampt...
 

Spygate 2 Southampton v Boro

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Powmill-Naemore
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So the timeline is becoming clearer by the hour...

 

Friday 15th May:

Tickets go on sale at both Hull City and Sinners for the Championship Playoff Final.

 

Tuesday 19th May:

Commission finds Sinners guilty and has them disqualified.

 

Wednesday 20th May:

Sinners lodge their appeal.

 

Thursday 21st May:

EFL Executive attend audience with the Pope beseeching his indulgence with the good Lord to ensure Hull City prevail in the upcoming Championship Playoff final.

 

Saturday 23rd May:

Hull v Sinners at Wembley goes ahead and Sinners win (don't they always?)

 

Wednesday 3rd June:

Commission publishes result of Sinners appeal and confirms their disqualification and 12 point deduction for season 2026/27 and £500k fine to be paid in weekly installements of £5 per week.

Hull City duly promoted

 

Thursday 4th June:

Middlesbrough lodge High Court claim of damages in excess of £100m from Sinners

 



Site Creator
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Given Southampton were caught spying then it should be guilty until proved innocent - let them appeal being disqualified while the final between Hull and Boro is played.



Site Creator
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What I feel laughable is that the independent committee is 'considering' sitting over the weekend - is this some kind of old boy joke that they take the weekend off to play golf while Hull fans risk having their travel and accommodation expenses wasted because the decision can't be made in time!



Clive Hurren
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Boro v Sinners (nice one, Powmill!) even made the BBC 6 o’clock news tonight, the story being that Boro have asked for them to be thrown out. Now the whole world is aware. If nothing else, this will have severely damaged Southampton’s reputation as a decent football club, and I hope will make other clubs a bit wary of doing business with them. 

I must say I agree with the Hull City fan who was on the BBC vox pop. ‘They should throw the book at Southampton,’ she said. 



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@powmillnaemore Thank you that made me laugh! Just about the only thing about this mess that has.

Southampton should not be permitted to profit from their wrongdoing (and before we are told to prove a link between their win and the spying, why do we have rules against spying it isn't effective?) and so should be disqualified. 

If they aren't then other teams will try the same thing in the future. The league then becomes discredited and supporters will drift away.

It is in all club's interests that Southampton are disqualified.



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@powmillnaemore - sounds about right although you may have missed the bit where Boro are docked 3 points for daring to bring  to the attention of the EFL! 



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@clive-hurren - But we know that they won’t throw the book at them - maybe we should set up a sweepstake for what the end result will be with the money to charity?



   
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@werdermouth - that is far too sensible an idea when there is so much money at stake………..for the EFL of course.

Football has ceased to be a sport for the benefit of the fans and paying public (unless they are prepared to pay for Sky etc).

On the issue of any appeal and Boro not being able to present the case in person, it is down to the fact that (Maybe in the EFL rules) there can only be two parties to the dispute. Despite Boro bringing it to the attention of the EFL it is the EFL v Southampton. Therefor they are the only ones who could appeal the outcome.

Madness I know but when has any sense been applied to football and money these days? MAnchester City and the 115 charges springs to mind.



   
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In my view an excellent article: 

https://www.hulldailymail.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/hull-city-fans-down-unspoken-10966811# 😎



   
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@werdermouth. Hang on a minute, they did have to work all day Friday and missed pre weekend three hour lunch drinks on Friday. 😉😎



   
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@k-p-in-spain - sounds about right…….. I remember giving evidence in a court case when the judge had told the jury beforehand that he would adjourn at lunch time on a Friday and as nobody had told me, i was somewhat surprised when he said it! Safe to say, I didn’t have a particularly relaxing weekend.



   
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A couple of things about all this and MFC’s position which are troubling me are, that much of it has been played out in the media.  

I am concerned that the panel may find against MFC if some of the information reported should have remained confidential, such as the name and photograph of the spy, details of him using a bank card to purchase coffee (possible breach of GDPR) and that other clubs have been providing information regarding spying; it would of course be necessary to prove MFC as the source of all of this.

I am also conscious that Southampton have been very tight lipped.  Is that an indication of guilt or do they know something that would blow MFC’s case out of the water.

There have been suggestions that the individual identified is/was no longer an employee at the time of the incident but were that to be the case you would have expected that Southampton would have refuted the allegation at the outset.

I just hope that what we have learnt from the media can all be substantiated and is taken on board by the panel, given MFC will be unable to present its case. 😎

 

 



   
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@k-p-in-spain 

There have been suggestions that the individual identified is/was no longer an employee at the time of the incident but were that to be the case you would have expected that Southampton would have refuted the allegation at the outset.

Wasn’t their first comment/defence something along the lines of admitting that someone from Southampton was there but that they were acting as a “lone wolf”?  As you say  if that was the case, then it would have been easy to say that the person has been sacked and we deplore the action and unreservedly apologize. That they didn’t speaks volumes to me.

I too worry that it might come back to bite us on the bum and we will be penalized.

 

 



   
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@boro-beckys-dad.  I don’t think the lone wolf theory came from Southampton but from supporter forums and repeated across parts of the media.  😎



   
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@k-p-in-spain 

I've got every sympathy for the supporters of both Hull and Southampton that the EFL have allowed tickets to be sold and naturally they will need to make travel and accommodation arrangements given it's only a week away. I always felt a decision would've needed to have been made before ticket went on sale and now there's no way that simply claiming terms and conditions is good enough - if they thought the final had a possibility of being rescheduled then tickets should've never been issued.

My feeling is that changing the date of the final was not a acceptable option and a decision on expelling Southampton could have been made within a week but now what? Allow Southampton to play in a final knowing they've cheated in anything from 1-5 games or more?

Maybe the Southampton owners have a responsibility to withdraw from the play-offs as surely they must now know from their 'review' as to whether their coaching staff have been cheating and if they have then they should be dismissed for gross misconduct. Can they just pretend that nothing has happened and hope the committee punish them more lightly and then try to win the final and celebrate promotion nobody outside Southampton would welcome! 


This post was modified 3 weeks ago by werdermouth

   
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@k-p-in-spain - so in which case it would have been so easy for them to deny it all and say nothing to do with them.



   
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@werdermouth.  “Maybe the Southampton owners have a responsibility to withdraw from the play-offs as surely they must now know from their 'review' as to whether their coaching staff have been cheating and if they have then they should be dismissed for gross misconduct. “

I agree totally but it appears so far that they lack the integrity and leadership that we would expect from MFC. Given their request for more  time I suspect that they are seeking to develop a narrative with a view to repudiating and mitigating the charge.  We will see. 😎



Selwynoz
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As with all the contributors, I would give a great deal to see Boro make it back to the top table and the neatest solution seems to be to overturn the result of the affected leg and award it to Boro 3-0. However, that does then raise the problem that the second leg will have been played under false circumstances since Southampton will not have been aware that they needed to overturn such a deficit.

i can see a number of possible outcomes and the top two seem to me to be 

1. Disqualify Southampton from the playoff process and award promotion to Hull

2. Disqualify Southampton from the playoffs and play the final between Hull and Boro.

These are the only options that remove the risk that the EFL and/or Southampton will be pursued in the courts by a vengeful Steve Gibson.

I did have one thought. Imagine that Hull achieve promotion, can you imagine the atmosphere next season when Boro play Southampton. I would seriously suggest banning away support.

UTB


This post was modified 3 weeks ago by Selwynoz

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@selwynoz - option 1 would result in the EFL losing money and would be unfair to the supporters of both teams that have presumably now bought tickets and made travel arrangements.

Option 2 - would be a logistical nightmare and unless played on the same day would still disadvantage Hull supporters.

Sadly, I am coming to the conclusion that the game will be played in 23rd with Soton  V The Tigers with The Sinners receiving their penalty after the event - ie expulsion, fine (payable to Boro) and points deduction. Hull are promoted.

I probably speak for many football supporters of teams in the Championship and elsewhere in hoping the The Tigers get their claws into The Sinners and give them a good mauling.



Selwynoz
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@boro-beckys-dad 

I hear what you are saying and that might be a way out in the short term but it will be impossible if the tribunal render a verdict before the game is played. Will they instructed to remain silent until after the game. How odd that would be.

I also struggle to name a fine that would mollify Boro. What number would you put on it? Pds 500,000. PDS 5 million or even more? If I were the EFL, my main concern would be to cut off Steve Gibson from an extended and hideously expensive lawsuit. 

UTB


This post was modified 3 weeks ago by Selwynoz

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@selwynoz.  “I did have one thought. Imagine that Hull achieve promotion, can you imagine the atmosphere next season when Boro play Southampton. I would seriously suggest banning away support.”

Yes next season could be quite feisty as we also await the return of RE with Wolves, assuming he is not sacked in the interim. 😎



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Werder.  Are you able to tell me how to turn off predictive text/auto correct when posting on the blog.  I am using iPad with Chrome browser.

I seem to be spending more time making amendments to my posts than I do in compiling them.

As an example “are” was changed to “A re” when I had correctly typed and spelt the word I required.  It’s driving me nuts.  Nu Ts - see what I mean! 🤬😎



   
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@k-p-in-spain 

Predictive text is a device setting - try the following link...

https://support.apple.com/guide/ipad/use-predictive-text-ipad736a3ca8/ipados



   
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@boro-beckys-dad 

Yes, I find it increasingly difficult to see how a rearranged final could actually work and be fair to Hull supporters who have bought tickets - it beggars belief that a panel set up to address the matter didn't make it a priority to resolve the matter asap and seem to exist in a bubble of procedure at the expense of actually solving a situation that has taken over week just to begin before pausing after one day to have a weekend break.



   
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@selwynoz - which is the dilema and why I suspect that nothing will happen until after the game with Southampton and Hull. 

As to the fine, then it should be at least the same as what Soton make from the play off matches paid to Boro as compensation plus maybe their parachute payments for the next 2 seasons.

 



   
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Pedro de Espana
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If the Disciplinary Committee are truly independent, then whatever diluted punishment they come up with, will in theory, have to be accepted by the EFL, and any consequences for the TV companies, never mind the poor(er) fans will have to be accepted.

 



   
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@pedro - although as one of the parties, then presumably the EFL could also appeal?



   
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@werdermouth.  Thank you for that link.  No longer driving me nuts and no more Nu Ts appearing. 😎



   
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It's basically "three [unkown] legal experts sitting behind closed doors in London" with no representation from MFC to put forward their case and only a statement that they will conclude by Tuesday, which judgement can be appealed by Southampton.

What is not clear is whether the punishment is one that the committee on their own decide or whether it's a recommendation to the EFL, who then can decide on the options. 

The EFL have stated there is a contingency plan if Southampton are to be expelled but they've not given any details of that plan (if it does indeed exist as a viable one).

Given these are 'legal experts' then there is no precedent for expulsion under these circumstances - and if we know anything about legal experts then precedent is their favourite reference point.

So expect strong words, admonishment and financial punishment and possible future sporting sanctions. Expect Southampton to stick to the rogue employee line and promise to ensure it never happens again. Also don't expect more binocular goal celebrations from their captain and a discouragement that supporters attend the final in camouflage.

Also expect a large rug at the EFL for everything to be swept under... Expect Steve Gibson to go nuclear!


This post was modified 2 weeks ago by werdermouth

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@werdermouth.  Having read your excellent post, nail and head comes to mind. 😎



   
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