Well folks, though the machinations of the Boro's season-ending defeat at Coventry continue, I thought it might be worthwhile to start a new thread to discuss the wider topic of reviewing Boro's season, no doubt before we turn our attentions - difficult as it may seem now - to next season.
Hot topics at the moment are familiar ones from recent years: Where did it go wrong and who is to blame? What should be done about it? What do we need to do differently next season? What is going on behind the scenes?
I feel that a tipping point has been reached with the wider Boro fanbase regarding Michael Carrick's future, though personally I would like him to continue with better support. I don't feel that he had a tools to match Boro's ambitions this season and also that his work has been disrupted by committee decisions. He may well have been part of the committee but I wonder if his voice can be strong enough when debating with his employers. Perhaps a lesson learned for him, or perhaps, based on recent press coverage, he has learned its better to stay out of recruitment altogether to ensure he can't be blamed.
On the touchy subject of recruitment I've attempted to trawl the internet (mostly transfremkt.co.uk) to take a bit of a deeper dive into Boro's recruitment under Keiron Scott (permanent transfers only). The fees don't look quite right to me, and several were undisclosed in any case but I've tried to at least give a flavour of what's happened, plus my own very subjective take on whether the transfer has been a success, failure or somewhere inbetween:
Transfers in:
| Name | Reported Fee (£m) | Hit/Miss |
| Martin Payero | 6.75 | Miss |
| Riley McGree | 3.64 | Hit |
| Caolan Boyd-Munce | 0 | Miss |
| Marcus Forss | 3.6 | OK/Undecided |
| Matthew Hoppe | 3 | Miss |
| Matt Clarke | 2.6 | OK/Undecided |
| Dan Barlaser | 1 | OK/Undecided |
| Darragh Lenighan | 0 | OK/Undecided |
| Tommy Smith | 0 | OK/Undecided |
| Liam Roberts | 0 | Miss |
| Emmanuel Latte Lath | 5.5 | Hit |
| Lukas Engel | 3 | Miss |
| Finn Azaz | 2.9 | Hit |
| Seny Dieng | 2.3 | OK/Undecided |
| Morgan Rogers | 1.2 | Hit |
| Alex Bangura | 0.67 | OK/Undecided |
| Sammy Silvera | 0.585 | Miss |
| Tom Glover | 0 | Miss |
| Jamie Jones | 0 | Miss |
| Alex Gilbert | 0 | OK/Undecided |
| Rav van den Berg | 0.35 | Hit |
| Morgan Whittaker | 5 | OK/Undecided |
| Tommy Conway | 5 | OK/Undecided |
| Micah Hamilton | 4.3 | Miss |
| Aiden Morris | 3.75 | Hit |
| Delano Burgzorg | 2.75 | OK/Undecided |
| Neto Borges | 1.5 | OK/Undecided |
| George Edmundsen | 0.7 | OK/Undecided |
| Luke Ayling | 0 | OK/Undecided |
I make it a total of £60m spent, with an Andy R breakdown of:
- Hit: 20.69%
- Undecided: 48.28%
- Miss: 31.03%
I'm sure each of you will have your own opinions, and therefore percentages, on how successful or otherwise recruitment has been.
I won't post the sales table but I have it coming to £83.6m in sales, so a £23.6m profit over 4 seasons.
So, a decent profit on player trading has been made. However, is the team closer to or further away from promotion? Are we actually progressing? Is the club strategy now skewed more towards financial sustainability than footballing success, or are we just executing badly? If so, what needs to change?
Thinking about next season, a few recruitment thoughts come to mind:
- We have definite gaps in the squad at goalkeeper, right back and centre forward
- We have possible gaps at centre back and centre midfield
- Further gaps may appear as players depart
- Even where numbers are sufficient, there may be quality gaps
The general make-up of a promotion winning squad, in my view, is one that has
- A clear way of playing
- Sufficient numbers of good quality Championship players for each position (accepting that a few reserve players may be relatively inexperienced youngsters)
- A squad this isn't overly injury prone
- Three or four experienced Championship performers who are unfazed by the challenge and can guide younger players through the campaign, knowing how to see games out and prepare professionally
- A sprinkling of players (1-3) that are probably too god for the league (that may still not be good enough for the Premier League, such is the gulf)
Any more? If not, how close are we to the above? Unfortunately, I think we have a long way to go.
Anyway, a bit of transfer research and a few random thoughts thrown at you, to keep the conversation going over the long summer.....
Brilliant, Andy! Thank you.
I’m going on holiday tomorrow, so will comment at greater length as the debate develops. I would just add one further consideration:
Boro are absolutely useless at set pieces. We pose no threat at all. I stand to be corrected but I think we only scored twice from corners all season, both headers early on from Matt Clarke. And I can’t remember the last time we scored direct from a free-kick. Was it really as long ago as Sam Greenwood against Leicester nearly two seasons ago now? Or have I missed some? Many clubs make set pieces a key part of their armoury. It’s high time we did. I think we need a specialist set piece coach. So what has Grant Leadbitter been doing?
@clive-hurren Can we add more practice at throw-ins to that list please? No one seems to want to receive the ball once it’s in Dijksteel’s hands.
Thank you for that Andy. A Headliner that will certainly divide opinion.
It will have been difficult for you to arrive at an accurate (ish) figure for sales and purchases, given that most are clouded in the mist of transfers, never mind the undisclosed and agents fees and bonuses and add ons. Talk about murky.
I would add that from my point, there should be an extra choice for each player. Jones, was I think is a hit, he did what he was bought to do. McGree has been a miss after two seasons of injuries. But have a proviso of undecided, if he comes good eventually.
As you said Andy, some of the them seem very wrong. Hamilton at 4 million I cannot believe that.
Anyway, I have to finish. I have been told it’s lights out.
Great idea Andy - many thanks for putting together a really good assessment of the season just passed. I think Carrick could feel hard done by to be dismissed after having his only real target man and goal scorer sold and not replaced adequately - plus unfortunately losing his most effective outlet in Doak.
For me it is a question of whether the club can actually provide Carrick with what he needs to play the way he wants effectively. And I'd also agree that balancing the books has taken priority over promotion otherwise Latte Lath would've been sold in the summer if promotion wasn't achieved.
I don't think the money on Burgzorg, Hamilton and Whittaker has been well spent and looks unlikely to see a profit returned - plus all three don't look like players who see Boro as anything but a stepping stone.
Hopefully, if Boro do opt to change managers they won't also change style of manager as then we will see a massive clearout of players - still don't see many match-winners in the squad and the defence looks too pedestrian.
Apparently, many reports say Hamilton was bought for £2m with add-ons rising to £5m - though given he couldn't even get a kick for Stockport in League One on loan then those add-ons look safe!
I hadn't realised we paid so much for Hamilton so when I looked on several sites, there was an indication that there was an 11million pound buy back clause in his contract. I wonder if they would like to trigger that. Another concern is the Academy. This season only six Academy graduates played in the first team in the Championship. Was not sure if Isiah Jones was a true academy graduate, so have left him out. The total minutes played was 5725, of which Hackney, Fry and Brynn played all bar 7 minutes. Josh Coburn played 5 and Nathan Simpson and George Mccormick played 1 each. A few others played in the league cup thrashing by Stoke and Mcabe played in the FA Cup. I know it helps with Financial Fair play, or whatever it is called now, but is it worth the money it must cost, and who was the last Academy graduate sold for a big sum? The Under 21's lost last week to Scarborough in the North Riding Senior Cup, at the Riverside!
Looking at Andy's list minus all the loanies, is this sustainable, can you expect consistency , even with decent players although looking at these signings how many have been with succesfull winning programme's, it's like the club is doing the Hokey , Kokey with recruitment
A little thing I picked up from the Carrick post season interview, hinted on something in the background , interesting?
btw I just added the 'm' after the £2 I originally typed 😉
@werdermouth 🤣 ..... or maybe you were thinking of how much we will be able sell him for
https://youtu.be/SAFP2xdJldY?si=IcLSlxI1AabSkbIa
Interesting interview with former Boro academy coach Paul Jenkins ,now Football development director at Burnley
If Boro gave Carrick a new contract in June 2024, they must think he is the best option long term. To me it does not make sense to change the manager now.
What we need is continuity. We have chopped and changed the team too much in the past few transfer windows. So let's sit down and think what we really need.
I think most people think the summer window prevented the start to the season to be very good. And even more thought the January window was even more disturbing.
So let's be realistic - has Carrick changed so much in the past eleven months that we need a new manager next? Let's stick to him for one more season - as Pally said let's see how the new season starts in Autumn first.
And let's be careful with new players. If Carrick thinks he squad is good already now, just buy quality over quantity. Please bring in four very good players or max six.
All we need is a good start to the season, less injuries during the season and stability and consistency. This does not happen with panic buys every six months. Keep the changes to minimum - one addition/change to the coaching staff and just a few high quality players.
Keep it simple. Up the Boro!
Mind, there are a few former Boro managers available and without work. I am thinking about Southgate and Mogga. Or we can promote the current assistant to Head Coach - but that could be too much to the people who thinks a player or coach from Teesside is always less talented than one from outside. Me thinks that is strange, like.
Up the Boro!
btw I just added the 'm' after the £2 I originally typed 😉
£2 is probably closer to his true value at the moment
The venerable OFB has also said there are problems behind the scenes from an inside source
@paulinboro Question is “what is regarded as an inside source (without naming the person)” a member of the management team, a member of the training staff, a member of the recruitment team, the tea lady or my neighbour over the fence. To be honest what is the actual rumour ! Conflict between Carrick and Scott, Carrick and Woodgate, Carrick and Gibson, the tea lady and the cleaner. One can say I have heard something that I can’t detail from someone that I can’t name or quantify either, every day of the week, and wait for something to come out in the press and say “I told you so”.
I am not having a go at any individual but I hate ambiguous statements that can never be proven or unproven at any time. Scott may be tempted by offers from Crystal Palace or Hartlepool but I doubt he would risk his CV or reputation by stirring the pot at MFC before he leaves. How many times must Gibson/Carrick/Scott have to come out and say they are all working off the same song sheet.
Come on BORO.
@exmil I’m with you on this one. I don’t for a minute doubt @ofb’s inside knowledge, but unless we get clarity, I can’t see the point of mentioning it.
Every club as issues , it's not aways going to be plain sailing, there will be disagreements among the footballing staff, it's whether it lingers or becomes personal, you hope egos don't get in the way.
We all know winning games , makes for a more harmonies, group , however you wonder when the team is so inconsistent, are there cracks.
@AndyR - I'm not sure when I'll get round to comment on the playing staff and so on. It might be an issue easier to address after an expected "End of Season Review/Appraisal" between Steve Gibson has taken place. After all, with a new manager, all bets are off with regards to players. A new manager might decide to use Coburn, for example, or decide that some of the current favourites are not his cup of tea. However, I should say thanks to Andy for introducing the topic and concentrating our minds somewhat on the playing staff at the club at the time of our final league game.
What we can say without fear of contradiction is that this is not a list of unalloyed success, is it? I realise signing players may be more of an art than a science. There will inevitably be successes and some who turn out to be less successful. But if I was as unlucky in chosing cars and caravans over the years, as Boro seems to have been in the transfer market, it would have been a grim last 40 years or so. Maybe it's because it's MY money I'm spending and I don't have as much of it as MFC, but I tend to spend AGES looking, going through options, reading and researching written and online reviews but every single caravan has turned out to be a success and I haven't bought any dud cars or disappointing caravans over the decades. I don't feel that any of them owed me anything at the end of their "time". Maybe I'm lucky or maybe my "due diligence" has been well-executed?
@forever-dormo Just may be, you know what you are doing. 🤣
I found it interesting, we are told recruitment is by committee, and told Carrick gives the nod, however how come he didn't know Illings Jr's best position it was only after injuries and speaking to the lad, did he find out he preferred playing on the left, this was after , playing him right wing where he was lost and totally out of his depth.
I've said it, something isn't right.
The joys of watching your kids play football...
When I watched my son in tjfa many years ago, it was like this fisty cuffs, parents thinking their children were the next Ronaldo, girlfriends dressed to the nines when they were teens, much more civilised when he played for darlo development squad
Sunderland beat Coventry 2-1 away to go into the next game on a high !
Thats how to do it Boro !
OFB
@original-fat-bob I was hoping Coventry get promoted, otherwise that would be six points lost before we kick off next season. 🤣
They have as bad a recored against them as we do. That was there first win in Coventry since 1985 and first anywhere since 2007. Ten games since they last beat them. It's eight games since we last beat them in January 2022.
EXMIL CHALLENGE 2025 - Playoffs - halftime scores
jarkko (4,2,4,3) 13 v Powmill-Naemore (3,2,4,4) 13
selwynoz (4,3,5,3) 15 v werdermouth (3,3,5,3) 14
Still very close with the second legs to come, the first goal of the playoffs was 45+3, Shef Utd v Bristol.
Come on BORO.
To be honest, as I sit in the sunshine next to the lock (as in Lockside, Ripon) I don't really care who wins the Play-Offs. I can see an argument for getting rid of SheffU out of the Championship but the same might apply to Coventry. I can see those remaining in the exmil challenge might be interested...
How would you feel if the CEO of the the club decided who you can sign based on his observations, well apparently that's what Boro have, Warnock talking on when at Boro, wanted to sign Whatmore, he'd been on trial for a few weeks, it wasn't going to cost much, infact WArnock said he'd pay his wages, Bauaser said No, stating his stats don't add up, only after Warnock spoke to Gibson we signed him,
If this is what's going on, we have a big problem, we don't have a manager or coach anymore, and maybe that's why in the past managers with successfull CVS fail here,
I've said it something smells