@selwynoz

I agree completely with your analysis of the individual players. Not sure whether it's the case that MC is not well equipped to deal with the less experienced players, but if it is true, then that's a fault with the coaching team that needs to be fixed. We need to be able to feed one or two of the new players in, albeit at a more cautious rate than in the early part of the season, while they are still learning. Otherwise their development will be too slow for the overall good of the team.

@selwynoz.  I think there is an element of truth in what you say but it is more about ability than age as Engel, Bangura and Lathe are all 24, Silvera is 22 so in my view are not young in footballing terms.

A lot of posters on the EG site have been talking about the results and saying that it will take time for a young team to gel and also given the large number of new recruits.

This analysis, to my view, is slightly flawed in that whilst there was an influx of players (12) 3 were goalkeepers.

Dieng is not a youngster and is experienced as you have pointed out.  Engel, Bagura and Lathe are not youngsters and have had plenty of experience, albeit on the evidence so far, at a lower level and are now struggling at Championship level.  

RDV is the youngest and less experienced but clearly has talent and is progressing well.

Last season Archer and Ramsey, who are both 21, were taken on loan and hit the ground running so youth was not a factor and it did not take them time to gel so it is clearly all to do with ability; after all if you are good enough you are old enough as RDV and HH are proving.

I agree that the likes of Silvera and Rodgers are speculative buys and on the evidence so far can’t cut the mustard.

O’Brien is an experienced professional who if played in the right position will do well for us.

I agree entirely with you about Greenwood.

On MC, I think he can manage players across the spectrum but like all of us will be more successful if he is given players with ability to perform at the requisite level; some of the recent recruits are clearly not in my view. 😎

On the question of Scott and his team, I take the view that they have clearly not got everything right, no one ever does, but at least they are attempting to change to a more sustainable model.

I would suggest that the team have not secured all of their prime targets and that compromises have had to be made.

MC also cannot be absolved entirely for what appears to us to be recruitment failures, as he has said on numerous occasions that he is part of the recruitment process, has frequent/daily discussions with KS as their offices are adjoining.

I don’t see the process as being one of KS saying to MC here are 12 new players now get on with it.  

MC has also said he is very happy with the squad he has at his disposal as it provides him with more options than were available to him last season. 

If the team fails then they all fail, MC, KS, SG et al. 😎

I, personal opinion, am quite happy with the transfer business working within our financial parameters. I am not about to write off some (if not all) of our young purchases, some have shown more potential than others, so far. How can people make judgement on the likes of Bangura, when he has only started one match before getting injured in the 69th minute 😱. Silvera, Lathe have came to the championship from other countries, players joining from leagues 1/2 take time to adjust to the championship, so what’s it like for foreign players 🤔, yet people are writing them off after a few appearances.

 I, personally see potential in Silvera, Lathe, Rogers, Van Den Berg, even Lucas Engel, Bangura, more than (as we have in the past) spending millions on players towards the end of their careers, looking for a last payout, I will leave it up to individuals to think of money wasted on “big” player purchases in the past. If 6/8 of the players bought realise some of their potential and play a part throughout the season, when injuries/ suspensions kick in (like the end of last season) then it is money well invested, even if they become squad players. There is always a chance that some of them will become an Hackney, Jones or even Coburn, add them to our established first team players and we have a decent squad without becoming foul of FFP.

 I believe (at last) the club is moving in the right direction, as far as recruitment is concerned, as opposed to popular belief I think that Gibson, Bauser, Scott and Carrick are working together on a longer term plan, than just 1/2 seasons to make this club successful while sustainable. Yes there will be duds along the way, but please give them chance to come to grips the style, pace and rigours of the championship before assigning them to the bin, for those who can remember, Juninho did nothing in his first season before becoming a Boro cult hero.

Come on BORO.

Again, lads (and lasses?), it’s a fine debate. I agree to an extent with Len that Scott's recruitment this season has been poor, but last season he (or the club) acquired Archer and Ramsey in January, and we already had Giles and Steffen. Presumably Scott was involved in all of those acquisitions. 

It’s clear that this season the club has decided to go in a different direction, in effect developing a pool of talent for ourselves rather than for other clubs to snaffle. What we don’t know is just how much that change was driven from the top by the need to cut costs. Whatever the reason, we have ended up with a number of bargain-basement players, many of whom have no or very limited experience at this level, Dieng being the exception until O’Brien came in at the last minute. So, in my view, we got the balance of recruitment wrong - I think we should have signed two or 3 Championship-experienced pros alongside some of the younger lads with potential. That might have given us greater stability earlier on. 

As Exmil says, some of these new players may ultimately come good given time and extensive, high-quality coaching, which they will probably get from MC and his team. In reality, we couldn’t have expected them all to settle quickly and we certainly couldn’t have expected them to instantly replace the 4 exceptional players we lost last season. As it is, we may have to settle for a season of consolidation and development this year. The squad is what it is now till January and we’ll need to use it to the full extent as injuries and suspensions bite. As Peter said, we ought to be feeding the new lads in cautiously, while maintaining the bulk of the first team as it was yesterday. 

Great result yesterday and a much better performance.  Just goes to show what can be achieved when MC reads Diasboro and picks the team recommended by many of the contributors.  

Great result yesterday and a much better performance.  Just goes to show what can be achieved when MC reads Diasboro and picks the team recommended by many of the contributors.  

Didn’t mean to post twice - finger trouble!

@boroexile 

I still put a like on it twice !

OFB

@clive-hurren 

Good post and levels up the rationale of the recruitment.

Looking forward to your Watford preview post 

OFB

@exmil 

Great post Exmil and puts things into perspective!

OFB

@lenmasterman 

Thanks Len the announcement was made before the game started but there were not a lot of people in the ground at that time. Hope someone from the Diasborians heard it.

Johm Foster used to be the announcer at Sunderland and the stadium of light although he was a Boro fan!

I used to rib him all the time about split allegiances !

OFB

Good debate again and I don't disagree with much that has been written on both sides of the argument - though it essentially boils down to most of the current purchases not yet showing the level and ability required but could ultimately improve once they've been coached and trained tactically.

It seems Michael Carrick has tried most of them out and come to the conclusion that they're not ready yet to put his trust in them if he wants to still be in job when/if they do indeed improve. Although, I personally think the recruitment strategy has gambled too much this summer and a team that had aspirations of another top-six finish should have picked up a few proven Championship performers and not just a last-minute loan of O'Brien.

Interesting post-match comment from Carrick: "When things don't go your way and you're up against it a bit, people's true character shows and who you can trust, who you can't and who's with you and who's not."

Presumably he's decided he can't trust Latte Lath and has now tuned to Josh Coburn, who well and truly stepped up to the plate yesterday - incidentally, a player who's still only with us and not at Plymouth this season because the deal for Everton's Thomas Cannon fell through.

It does prove (as has been mentioned) that age is not necessarily a factor - it's more about self-belief, confidence, desire and of course ability. However, the other obvious plus is that Josh Coburn doesn't have to settle into a new club and already knows the place and has a rapport with the supporters.

So what we're left with at this moment in time is perhaps around 14-15 players who are ready for the first team and another group who may or may not make the grade at some point. How they are given their pitch time in the coming months will make or break them and there's no reason to think they will even get it if those who get the shirt perform - even a player like Barlasser has struggled to break through despite being an experienced Championship player.

I could maybe see van den Berg ultimately becoming the partner to Lenihan as he builds up his match fitness as Fry doesn't look comfortable with the ball at his feet and rarely risks a progressive pass - unlike his partner Lenihan, who has a much better all-round game.

Sometimes you just can't teach a player to have a footballing brain and despite having the physical attributes in abundance they can never quite convert their natural talent to take them to the next level.

Boro have gambled in the summer that the club will improve some budget arrivals into the kind of players that will demand attention, which was at the expense of adequately filling some large pressing gaps in the squad - the early signs have not been positive and if Michael Carrick had have lost again at the weekend then support for him and the plan may have been fatally damaged. 

Another win at the weekend may see the weight removed off Boro and hopefully see the team relax and play better - but likely the projects may now get a run out on Tuesday in the Carabao Cup in order to save the legs of those who have now gained the trust of their head coach.

As always, an excellent post match discussion. 

First of all, I am delighted my pessimism was so misplaced. Not only did Soton not wallop us, but by all accounts we played well and we were worthy winners.

I have only seen the 3 minute highlights on STV late on Saturday evening but  by the look of things we were unlucky not to have scored 3 or 4, but two was enough. Certainly we have been given good enough reason to hope for more wins to come.

That was a great post Selwyn. I am not so sure we can judge MC as a coach based on the difference between what he has achieved or otherwise with the new crop of players. To a large extent and as Jarkko frequently reminds us, if there is too much change in your personnel then it can take some time before things start to gel.

Agreed, there are some of the incoming that look a little out of their depth as they are, but to be fair we have also see tantalising glimpses of some of their talents. We will see as the season progresses just what our coaching team can do with the new recruits and, I do think we have already seen enough to tell us that some of these could come good.

We also have January to look forward to and remember the quality we were able to bring in last January...

For now we have to hope we have turned the corner and can go on a bit of a run and get ourselves a bit clear of the relegation places before the international break. Failure to build on this result and to continue to struggle for points over the next few weeks will leave the jury well and truly out on the coaching team. So let's hope and see that we really have turned that corner.

@original-fat-bob 

Am I doing Watford? I thought I was doing Cardiff! Help! 

@werdermouth 

Excellent post! 

@clive-hurren 

it’s Watford on my copy of the spreadsheet but it’s nearly a week away loads of time.

if you can’t do it let me know and we’ll rearrange.

cheers

OFB

@original-fat-bob 

Actually it’s back to me for Watford: Clive has Cardiff the following week.

@andy-r 

i have the wrong spreadsheet then !

my fault can you update me please !

Just giving everyone a fright !

OFB

@powmillnaemore Go on MFC website where you will find extended highlights following every game 👍.

Come on BORO.

Good to see that Matt Clarke is set to play for the under 21’s today, another step on the road back.

Come on BORO.

@exmil thanks Exmil. I do often catch up on the club site and will again for this last match. It was just that ee have had visitors over the weekend and for some reason my better half thinks I am being rude when I am catching up on the football while we are entertaining 🙄

Posted by: @exmil

↑

Good to see that Matt Clarke is set to play for the under 21’s today, another step on the road back.

Come on BORO.

I've just watched the highlights on the MFC site. Did it seem to anyone else, that Southampton's Shea Charles (#23) shoved Matt Crooks off the ball with both hands to "win" the ball at the star of the move that led to their goal?

@powmillnaemore   I did comment that it was Crooks that lost the ball that led to their goal, when most lay the fault at O’Brien. I did think that Crooks was just too slow and did not win the ball in the pass from Fry (I think)

Of course, I could be wrong. Usually, I am.  🤣

@powmillnaemore 

Crooks is a big unit but not well-balanced which makes him easy to knock off the ball. I think that's what make so clumsy and why he gets booked so often when tackling. Compare to Coburn or someone like Akpom who is big, strong and surprisingly well-balanced making them a nightmare to get the ball off. It didn't look like a foul, just the usual pushing and shoving.

I think if Crooks was better balanced he would be a Premier league player. 

@OFB - If, as appears to be the case, there is some confusion about the CORRECT spreadsheet, can the current version be circulated again (or put on Diasboro)?  I think I am supposed to be covering the Starters for Sunderland (a) on 7th October, Leeds (a) on 2nd December, Coventry (h) on 1st February 2024, Plymouth (h) on 24th February and Swansea (h) 6th April. If that is wrong, I might as well get it cleared up now rather than cause someone to have anxiety wondering where any missing Headliner has gone to....

@Everbody - no word from me after the last match because I came from Grinton to Teesside for the Southampton game and went back to Grinton afterwards. I am not sure whether it was the specific field I was camping in, but it seemed to be in a digital-signal bubble (or Bermuda Triangle, or whatever else you want to call it). The TV signal was similarly "challenged".  I could get a vaguely passable signal for BBC1 and BBC2 but ITV was horrendous.  Radio was non-existant on DAB and FM.  I had to turn off the rugby match Ireland v South Africa due to wifely-complaints and, gripping though the rugby was, the picture was grim and the sound contained a lot of disconcerting chirping. Like when the Bilsdale Mast went Kaput. We decided to come home yesterday (for Sunday lunchtime) rather than stay the extra night, which at least allowed me to watch both Scotland and Wales win (who could fail to enjoy Wales 40-6 Australia?).

I was OVERJOYED with Boro 2-1 Southampton, particularly after Boro had gone a goal down.  Boro played MUCH better than recently but still not getting it all right, whilst Southampton must be a better team than the match suggested.  Their Number 2 was certainly a handful.  I disagreed the comment I think Michael Carrick made after the match (BBCTees interview?) that the most pleasing thing was the commitment and performance.  By far the most important thing was the result.  Three points.  Off the very bottom of the league table. Another win would see us start to climb again.  But let's not get ahead of ourselves.  It was a much better performance and three very desperately needed points. What really matters now is to continue the improvement. 

Back-to-back performances will NOT mean the team has turned the corner but will at least give some excuse for hoping that to be the case.

@forever-dormo I’m down for the two Preston games as far as I’m aware. As you said, it might be a good idea to clarify things now to avoid any confusion.

@andy-r Thanks, Andy.