Just an observation, the Greenwood thing ? I don't know the facts ,he might be guilty as sin,but it seems to me, how does a young man in today's society read a young ladies intentions, certainly many of them are not afraid to be loud and get in your face if they feel wronged, they will even fight like a man of old,
So these lawsuits that are getting dismissed there has to be more to the situation at hand.
We certainly don't accept assault by a thug on another , but no evidence, means no evidence
If there was any evidence of that then all parties would have been charged with conspiracy to pervert the cause of justice - so we can assume there were no payments made. Likewise, if the evidence against Greenwood presented on social media was so convincing then it would have been used by the police to bring a conviction - it seems it wasn't. No doubt people will speculate on the matter and decide for themselves on guilt - it what feeds social media and truth is as always now what people believe to be true.
Greenwood had no future at a big club with a big brand like Man Utd where the income generated from merchandise and sponsorships far outweighs the value of an individual player - there is nothing in it for Man Utd to keep a tainted player and hope it will blow over - his future as a big star is over and if he's lucky he'll pick up a big pay cheque and resume his career away from the limelight without any sponsorship deals or any kind of media profile. Maybe in the USA where they go more for the whole redemption story of the bad boy becomes changed man.
So do we think that Mason Greenwood deserves another chance? Presumption of innocence etc. United clearly don't want to take any risk with their international brand and the money they make and so want to get him out of sight. Their language is actually quite unclear. They talk about helping him get on with his career at another club. I can see him going out on loan for the next two years of his contract at which point everyone will re-assess. Maybe Spain.
UTB
I heard the recording of Greenwood posted on social media and saw the photos.
I suppose it’s possible that they were staged in some way but I have to say they were very convincing - the audio was particularly harrowing - and I can understand the backlash regardless of what happened / didn’t happen in court.
With the trial not going ahead, it’s not possible to say whether he is guilty or not but we perhaps also need to remember that he wasn’t found guilty or not guilty. Instead the rug was pulled from the prosecutions case for reasons unknown and we are only left with what we saw and heard for ourselves.
Manchester Utd find themselves in a difficult position for which they haven’t found a strong response. The approach seems to have been to sound out how acceptable it would be reinstate him, then when it proved unpalatable, to help move him away from the club but not to terminate his contract. I’m not sure who that satisfies.
I did manage to find those photos and audio without too much trouble and at first glance look pretty damning. However, we don't know in what context they were made or whether the blood was fake or were even part of some fantasy role-play - we're into speculation on speculation.
While the CPS opted to drop the case against Greenwood after new evidence emerged and key witnesses withdrew cooperation - plus the ex-girlfriend also asked the police to drop their investigation
Anyway, here are the salient points made by Man Utd chief executive, Richard Arnold, he states the following points as to how their investigation unfolded:
- “The alleged victim requested the police to drop their investigation in April 2022.
- “We were provided with alternative explanations for the audio recording, which was a short excerpt from a much longer recording, and for the images posted online.
- “The alleged victim’s family participated in the process and were given the opportunity to review and correct our factual findings.”
“While the ultimate decision rested with me”, says Arnold, “I was taking various factors and views into account right up until the point of finalising my decision. While I am satisfied that Mason did not commit the acts he was charged with, Mason’s accepted that he has made mistakes which he takes responsibility for.
The club and Greenwood agreed to terminate his contract by mutual consent as it was clear his innocence was not widely shared among supporters and it was going to be impossible to continue at the club.
Greenwood gave the following statement...
“I want to start by saying I understand that people will judge me because of what they have seen and heard on social media, and I know people will think the worst”.
“I was brought up to know that violence or abuse in any relationship is wrong, I did not do the things I was accused of, and in February I was cleared of all charges. However, I fully accept I made mistakes in my relationship, and I take my share of responsibility for the situations which led to the social media post.
“I am learning to understand my responsibilities to set a good example as a professional footballer, and I’m focused on the big responsibility of being a father, as well as a good partner. Today’s decision has been part of a collaborative process between Manchester United, my family and me.”
Furthmore, rather incredibly the couple have since got back together and announced the birth of their first child last month with suitably loving photos posted on social media.
I’m not going to get involved in the details of the Greenwood case but I do think that clubs need to teach their young players much more than football. Apparently he’s been on United’s books since he was around 7 years old - these young men, earning staggering amounts of money need guidance and leadership.
Just an observation, the Greenwood thing ? I don't know the facts ,he might be guilty as sin,but it seems to me, how does a young man in today's society read a young ladies intentions, certainly many of them are not afraid to be loud and get in your face if they feel wronged, they will even fight like a man of old,
So these lawsuits that are getting dismissed there has to be more to the situation at hand.
We certainly don't accept assault by a thug on another , but no evidence, means no evidence
I’m sorry, but victim blaming isn’t acceptable here. The prosecution rates for rape in England are unacceptably low. There were 67,169 rapes recorded by the police in 2022. Charges brought stand at 1,276 (1.9%).
A phrase like “judging a ladies (sic) intentions” suggests that it is the man who should decide what happens next. If you believe that “no evidence, means no evidence” then I’d like to remind you that “No, means no” and not what a man determines it to mean.
I’m not going to get involved in the details of the Greenwood case but I do think that clubs need to teach their young players much more than football. Apparently he’s been on United’s books since he was around 7 years old - these young men, earning staggering amounts of money need guidance and leadership.
Certainly true and it's gratifying to read the material put out by the MFC Academy and the work that they seem to do in teaching the teenage players about things other than football. The Academy and the Foundation are two of the most admirable aspects of MFC.
UTB
Furthmore, rather incredibly the couple have since got back together and announced the birth of their first child last month with suitably loving photos posted on social media.
It certainly is a bizarre turn of events. I too had wondered whether it might be some sort of role play but if so, why would she post it all over social media and initially press charges, potentially ruining her boyfriend's career? There again, if he was entirely innocent, you'd imagine he'd be mightily unhappy with her, not settling down and having a baby.
Who knows what to make of it?
I was thinking the same thing - either Greenwood was guilty of doing what it appeared or his girlfriend stitched him up - how they ended up back together in a seemingly now happy relationship with a new baby just asked more questions than it answers.
Though I did read in one article that she was very upset and claimed her phone was hacked and then edited video was posted by a third party - plus apparently 12 witnesses later withdrew from case along with his girlfriend. They've apparently been together since school and Mason Greenwood was close to her family.
I guess we may never know what exactly happened but I feel I've been drawn into some kind of social media parallel universe that doesn't make sense - Greenwood's girlfriend, Harriet Robson is university educated and as I understand a 'social media influencer' who pushes lifestyle and high-end fashion products. Sounds like something happened but as the Man Utd inquiry concluded Greenwood didn't do the things alleged then I'm none the wiser.
Anyway, one wonders if they're now courting the tabloid media as this recent article in The Sun - Who is Mason Greenwood’s girlfriend Harriet Robson? doesn't even mention the court case or the allegations - it's like it never happened.
I think I'll go back to ignoring social media storms as they always appear to be less than meets the eye...
@werdermouth Ignore is undoubtedly best. Anti-social media manipulating, selecting and twisting. We're far better off with who the loan players will be before the creaking 'Transfer fenestration' swings gently shut.
More importantly is there any news from Ken?
All the best everyone.
UTB,
John
@john-richardson Best not to stray too far from our everyday topics. Saves any major differences of opinion.
I did my best to try and make sense of the story but when all those involved have failed to offer any clarity and are now apparently pretending it didn't happen then you must wonder if people are simply more concerned over their individual and corporate brand images more than anything else.
People are curating their own life stories on social media and editing out the bits that don't fit the portrayal of their desired image in the hope that this sanitised version of reality actually becomes reality when viewed under the online lens that many now primarily see the world.
Mason Greenwood and Harriet Robson are now presenting themselves as the perfect family with a new baby and aspire to be role models having learned to be better people. Welcome to 2023!
What was that about something coming through the window again...
Werder, 'They' simply re-write, edit or re-route information to suit their new, and probably believed, version of what happened. If you made sense of the story you'd probably need therapy.
Coming in through the window, wasn't that the Beatles! OFB will know if Boro are putting a little WD40 on the rusty hinges to herald a quiet and imminent arrival.
UTB,
John
I have read the posts above about the Greenwood/Manchester United contract issue and have heard views expressed on the consequences, whether he should be welcomed back to play for the club or whether he should be cast adrift etc.
In my professional career I worked for a short period prosecuting criminal offences with longer periods on either side of that defending criminal cases. For most of my career, however, I was involved in Child Protection Work which by its very nature tended to involve a lot more children affected by parents whose lives were dominated by alcohol and drugs as well as other substance abuse and other issues which frequently fuelled domestic abuse aimed at the children or where the children were involved in the crossfire, than I was ever involved in cases of people whose well-intentioned parenting was simply not good enough.
What I do know is that what REALLY goes on in a relationship is often difficult for outsiders to know. That where domestic abuse DOES occur, it may be insidious and creeping, and that there may be many incidents before the person who has suffered seeks outside help from agencies such as the Police. That the person who has suffered (and there are relationships where BOTH sides suffer at different times) may be gaslighted or made to feel that THEY have brought this on themselves, that it's what they deserve. It can involve dismantling a person's independence, driving a wedge between the victim and his/her family and friends to leave that person reliant solely on the other partner. That it doesn't have to be physical but can be financial abuse or mental abuse or controlling behaviour. That it doesn't have to be a man acting in that way to his wife or girlfriend but it can be between same-sex partners and can be abuse of the male partner by a female partner. That it can be adult children abusing their own elderly parents physically and, increasingly, financially. Or vulnerable adults being abused by those round and about them.
It is a really complex area. Police forces and social services now recognise this. Some offences, especially sexual offences, are now prosecuted by specialist Counsel (barristers). It is for these reasons and others that I won't any further speculate on what happened or didn't happen between a particular footballer and his girlfriend. We can not know what happened. We probably never will. There may be stereotypes. There may be assertions. They may be right in a particular case. They may be wrong. One thing we can say for certain is that if a particular incident involved, say a 22 year old Local Authority waste-disposal operative and his 23 year old girlfriend who works on the beauty counter at Boots, nobody would be remotely interested.
Just seen the photos on the MFC website of the players training ahead of the WBA game.
It was good to see that Tommy Smith was fully involved in the practice games; hopefully he can be included in the squad for Saturday. 😎
My last on this, Martin B, blaming the victim? Who is the victim ?, unless you believe the judicial system is corrupt, then Greenwood who was looking at a long sentence in jail, as been destroyed, by what seems like a I said she said, friends who ran away ,
I hope if we are selected for jury service ,we can decipher facts not emotion
Well based on the evidence supplied to us so far then it appears Greenwood is guilty as charged - a woman showing injuries she said were inflicted by him and audio of him threatening her to have sex.
Unfortunately, the evidence that club decided had cleared Greenwood of the charges against him has not been shared or even alluded to.
The couple themselves, who got back together within a few months of the charge have now had a child together and are portraying themselves as a happy family in the media.
I think given the high profile nature of the case and the obvious horror at what was released on social media, I find it very unsatisfactory that further explanation has not been provided in to how what appeared to have occurred did not occur.
We could all speculate on possible scenarios on whether the couple were into fantasy role play or even consensual BDSM. However, both sides of the argument are still a possibility and people who are concerned about sexual violence against women have not been persuaded that a serious offence has not been committed - while those who think Greenwood has been wrongly charged given his club have concluded he didn't do any of things he was charged with are equally puzzled.
In this case the police chose to drop the case given 'new evidence' and a lack of cooperation by the girlfriend and witnesses. I think at the very least the public deserve a credible explanation rather than just an ambiguous 'nothing to see here' by the couple - especially as they have now declared they want to be role models - unless of course today's role models are about not taking responsibility for their actions.
Was that an extract from the new evidence...
Middlesbrough Hope to make 3 signings. Extract from Northern Echo who received the information on Diasboro blog.
Boro have already made nine signings this summer, but are understood to be in the market for a central midfielder, an attacking midfielder and a striker to further bolster Michael Carrick's squad.
The priority - as has been the case throughout the window - is to make permanent signings, with Boro keen to avoid a repeat of this summer where they had to replace several loan players, who were key men last season.
OFB
Just an observation, the Greenwood thing ? I don't know the facts ,he might be guilty as sin,but it seems to me, how does a young man in today's society read a young ladies intentions, certainly many of them are not afraid to be loud and get in your face if they feel wronged, they will even fight like a man of old,
So these lawsuits that are getting dismissed there has to be more to the situation at hand.
We certainly don't accept assault by a thug on another , but no evidence, means no evidence
@gt. I wasn’t referring specifically to this case in my reference to victim blaming, but rather to your comment about the problem of a “young man” reading a “young ladies” intentions in “today’s society”. For too long “society“ has blamed victims for “asking for it”, “wearing short skirts”, “leading them on” and now, apparently, “getting in your face and not being afraid to be loud”.
It’s interesting that part of Greenwood’s bail conditions was that he was to go nowhere near Harriet Robson (accuser) but in recent reports the CPS admit that the pair of them were constantly seeing each other, the CPS did not charge Greenwood for constantly breaking bail conditions, then the case was dropped because of a sudden change of statement by key witnesses (Robson 🤔). Details of an agreement (if any) made during those meetings may never be known.
Come on BORO.
I remember the case of a former boro winger, left for, Manchester City ? Being very close to a young lady who was part of furniture around the training ground. It went legal big time. His punishment was lethal, with no one, including the girl, wanting any part of a show trial. He got the full nine yards. Never to play football again, check. Prison, check. Daily references in the Press (gloating) trouble with his fellow prisoners, check. The Press waiting with the headlines already written for his exit from Prison making absolutely sure he never kicked a ball again. Do we really want that sort of thing, the punishment must surely fit the crime.
Southampton wanting Nathan Wood, I'm sure Boro have 50% sell on seeing he went for 250,000, we should wave the sell on,and get Piroe
@plato The media hyenas certainly got what they wanted and as usuall moved onto their next food source
I think Boro played quite well on Saturday as nobody is complaining about the performance. All we talk is Greenwood.
I haven't commented on the case as I am too far away. All I say that the ladies need more respect and protection. And yes, Adam Johnson got punished at a court. Was he at Sunderland at the time?
Up the Boro!