@forever-dormo. Another excellent written, information laden, post. Thank you.
I did not go to University, generally people of my age didn't. Most went into an apprenticeship.
Of course times have changed dramatically. Take Teesside, no ICI as such, no Dorman Long as was and many others.
I believe it was Tony Blair that wanted to increase the numbers going onto Uni. Was the proposal something like 50%?
So as with the NHS, as time went on the costs rose. (this non political) I guess there is only so much money to spread around.
The political bit is, where it is decided to spend the money received from the various forms of taxes we pay.
Agreed another great post from FD. However I disagree about what you say the political bit is with regard to being how to spend money coming in from the taxes we all pay. I think the political bit is really about how to make sure everyone contributes equally proportional to their income and wealth so we shouldn't need to worry about paying (collectively) for education and health and bin men and buses etc. etc. etc., but I am in danger of crossing the thin blue, or is that the thin red, line here, so I shall stop typing now!
@martin-bellamy - I have no idea how anyone would calculate the insurance premiums for the Heart of Gold after the Infinite Improbablilty Drive was installed. Since, when Infinite Probability is reached, the craft would pass through every conceivable point in every conceivable universe at the same time, it follows it would explode, implode, become a giant bowl of radioactive ice cream, become invisible AND shrink to the size of a hazlenut before being swallowed by a squirrel simultaneously, the potential for damage and destruction would be limitless. That would be on the LAST paper of the Insurance exams...
The thing about it is that we all have DIFFERENT PEOPLE we'd like to send on the B Ark. I'd miss the bus to the launch site and get left behind...
@forever-dormo As you’d expect from insurers, everything would be covered until the squirrel got involved, then they’d play the “damage by vermin” exclusion clause (or maybe claws).
@exmil - This probably needs its own book, maybe a library, to answer. One the one hand, does anyone believe that the various UK Government or Independent "Watchdogs" do any good? In education or sewage and water safety, or anything else? There's OFF this and OFF that, and sometimes you might wish the various authorities would simply (Go) Off. There should be an independent authority you can go to when you think the Indepedent Watchdogs are not doing their jobs properly. Why, the joke used to go, is there only one Monopolies and Mergers Commission?
On the other hand, it will be argued that "Football" has been given a chance to sort itself out. Multi-billionaire clubs in the Premier League and paupers in the Football League. Given chance to sort out some financial arrangement to allow SOME crumbs from the Rich Man's Table to filter down to those in the Championship and below who need it to survive, but too many of the Rich Men voted against it and no agreement was reached. They are safely inside the castle and want the drawbridge lifted up to prevent anyone else getting onto it.
On the one hand it should be simple: don't spend more on players wages and fees than your club can afford or your club may go bust. On the the other hand the temptation must be to spend just a LITTLE bit more because we weren't far away last time and if we DO go up the rewards will be massive. But there are lots of issues and a short post here would hardly scratch the surface.
Apart from "who trusts a Government to appoint people who would fairly oversee a sport we love?:
1. How much should fans have to pay to watch games - are people being priced out?
2. How are away fans (any fans?) treated by the Police or the transport insfrastructure of the country?
3. Is there a need to enforce rules to avoid Bad People owning football clubs (and who decides who is Bad?).
4. To avoid cherished clubs (part of their communities for 140+ years) going bust, can we supervise the running of them?
5. Should public money be used for the benefit of rich clubs (West Ham & Man City "inheriting" Olympic & C'wealth Games stadia?
6. Should there be wages caps relative to income, and/or transfer fees caps?
7. What about TV rights and availablilty to Free to Air TV?
I mean, it just goes on and on. The views of a Darlington supporter may be different to a Derby supporter, a BORO supporter, a Leicester supporter, a Forest Supporter or an Manchelarsepool supporter but do they LOVE their club more, or should the views of the Big Clubs and their followers count for more? I have some of the questions but I'm sure I don't have all the answers.
@forever-dormo I’d be interested to investigate what would happen if Championship clubs got together and refused to accept Premier League players on loan. It’s easy for PL clubs to hoover up all the young talent, knowing that they can send them elsewhere to get game time. Clubs in our league are happy to take them in the hope of gaining promotion but it’s a very odd model that doesn’t work for most teams.
@martin-bellamy - The issue is getting football clubs to agree on things/a way forward. If your suggestion were to happen, it would cause the PL clubs real problems as they are limited as to size of squad/how many players they can register etc. Who's going to go to a PL club where you can't get a shirt and can't get a game? They'd have to go abroad.
"Great! I've been signed by Chelsea. But they want to send me on loan to a team I've never heard of in Kazakhstan! I've just looked it up on Google - do you know where that is? Next to China! What about my girlfriend? And my parents won't be going there to watch me play. If I was on loan at Millwall, nobody would need to move house and it would be a short journey ..."
Imagine those PL clubs having to play 100% of the wages of all the players they can't put on the field!
Re your post on the football regulator:
One very important question you hint at is the issue of timing of games and how, so often, the comfort and convenience of the fans is simply not a consideration. TV pays the piper, of course, so calls the tune, but clubs themselves (and their TV paymasters) should be obliged to consider the needs of travelling fans.
How can it be, for instance, that some Wembley finals and semi-finals are scheduled for late afternoon / early evening? How are fans travelling down by train from the North meant to get home? How can a Newcastle v Brighton game (for instance) be scheduled for a Monday night?
Who scrutinises the fixture computer? In what sane world would anyone expect Norwich fans to travel up to Boro on a Wednesday night?
This sort of thing is such a frequent occurrence nowadays that it seems most fans just accept it. But we don’t count, do we?
@martin-bellamy. probably send them to clubs in Europe, just as they do now only more so.
They could/would possible buy or affiliate with foreign clubs to loan their excess of younger development players.
The EPL has a successful history of maneovering their way around the rules meant to keep clubs in check. More so the so called bigger clubs
@clive-hurren - Spot on! And another thing that doesn't REALLY effect me as a BORO fan (because we don't have VAR in the Championship) is that the supporters in the ground, who've probably paid much more for their ticket to watch, are kept in the dark when a decision goes to VAR. They know much less than the people sitting on their couches at home. It might be polite to let them know what is going on. But then, again, football is much worse about this than Rugby. (I could do without the pointless post-match interviews as well).
The English League was so interesting in the 1970's when I started to support Boro. You never knew who was going to win the League back then. I remember Arsenal and Ipswich were the top teams for a few years. Or think about Derby or Forest winning the League with Cloughie in command.
I remember cycling to school with my mate back then. He said football was better in Germany and Bayern Munchen was the best (he also supported Liverpol). I argued that the Bundes Liga was often won by the Munich team. It was more like one club that run the show.
What I try to say is that the league should be interesting and equal. That make it interesting and exciting when you do not know before hand who wins a game. Think if the EPL would be as interesting results wise as the Championship!
And now I come to the point. How does the Americas do it in the Ice Hockey and Basket Ball when they have salary caps in their leagues? The smaller (or less succesful) clubs can reserve and pick up the young and most promising players first in their drafting systems. And still most players in ice hocket for example can earn a few millions a season. I do not know the details but their system looks like working.
Also the system they have in Germany seems to work - even though the winner is too ofter Bayern Munchen! But this year it looks like Bayern Leverkusen will be winning their first ever Championship. But anyway their clubs are owned by the fans and not some Far East or Arabian business men or states. Sounds fair to me.
So it should still be a sport not a show business. The fans and players should be the most important in here. I doubt the players like the current system as a sport (they like the wages but not all can play for Manchester City or United and win anything). So it should be a sport after all, not a business.
Up the Boro!
Elsewhere, Birmingham City have confirmed that Tony Mowbray will take a formal medical leave of absence until the start of pre-season 2024/25.
They have appointed Interim Manager, Gary Rowett, for their remaining eight games.
https://www.bbc.com/sport/football/68605799
All the best, Mogga. You will win your battle. Up the Boro!
@jarkko - Thanks for those two posts, Jarkko. It would be nice to go back to a simpler time when SEVERAL clubs had a chance to win the title.
And I suppose if Mogga had been away from work for the intended 6-8 weeks only, he'd have been expecting to come back just as the season is approaching it's end. Probably better not to rush things. Recover properly then Rest. THEN come back in the new season. But, of course, the time off may give Mogga the opportunity to re-evaluate things. He's had a life on the inside of football, with all its pressures/pains/pleasures for decades and who could blame him if he wanted to watch the odd game for fun (not work) and to have the chance to be with friends and family doing other things? He has surely earned it.
There is speculation about whether Greenwood will sign for Boro. It has been repeatedly reported that a fee has been agreed a long time ago.
But will he sign ? ( assuming Boro want him) My instinct is no- because he’s on Premiership wages which Boro may not be able to afford and so he’ll probably go to the highest bidder and may still have to accept a pay cut.
This has set me thinking about loan signings from Premiership clubs. If the player is successful Boro are likely to lose out. The player may have the option of returning to his former Club - he may have been loaned out simply to get game time. Or, his former Club may not want him and so he goes to a lower Premiership club. Or, if no interest he goes for the money to a top Championship club. Boro lose out all ways if the player is successful at Boro. This seems to have happened with all recent successful loan signings.
This may be part of the thinking in buying young Premiership players in the hope that they will improve and move on at a profit eg Rogers. The downside is whether over a period of seasons Boro can improve their squad sufficiently to become a creditable promotion contender. There can be no guarantees.
Perhaps a combination of buying young Premiership players and developing your own through the academy is the only way forward for Boro as long as the Club is not interested in selling the Club for a massive amount.
Just a few thoughts whilst enjoying a bit of holiday sunshine.
Philip of Huddersfield
👍😁
At first I rather liked greenwood, a spectacular goal from a free kick, but then he’s drifted away. He always seems to have a growl on his face and to be extremely unhappy. It could just be an unfortunate manner that he has but I do wonder if he gets on with his Boro teammates?
He has certainly dropped down the pecking order for a starting line up.
What do I think?
Could get better for the money ?
Would the fans want him?
I think Boro will say thanks but no thanks
OFB
Finland head coach Markku Kanerva said at Wednesday's press conference that a leg injury prevents Middlesbrough's forward from joining the group in the European Championship play-offs.
The team continues to prepare for the Wales match with a group of 23 players, and the team will not be supplemented for the time being.
Finland will meet on Thursday in Cardiff in the semi-finals of the European Championship qualifiers in Wales. In the second semi-final match of the A-path, Poland and Estonia will face each other.
The above was quoted from the National Team. Up the Boro!
Well it’s interesting that you say football should be more like show business and not a sport because that is what Steve Gibson is intending to do to the Riverside stadium.
Whilst Gibson has ploughed his money into the football club, the stadium itself is looking very jaded and tired and needs money spending on it. The seats are discoloured, the toilets have worn facilities and even the corporate areas are looking shabby.
So what is the showbiz link?
There have been a few headline shows at the Riverside with top attractions like “ Take That” but usually at the end of the year. What the proposed plan is……..to develop the Riverside into a proper Showbiz arena and build a hotel next door and redevelop the Middlehaven Area. The first stage of this has been implemented by the purchase of the surrounding area by Middlesbrough Development Corporation to assist this objective.
The Riverside Arena would then be developed to allow Music Concerts and shows on a more frequent basis allowing a greater income to the Owner
Is this a good idea .?
Better than having a foreign unknown owner I think 🤔!
OFB
@jarkko - As he left the field on Saturday I doubted Firss would be fit for the international games. Whether with rest and treatment he might be ready for the next BORO game is another thing. I suspect not but hope the answer will be "yes". At least he will not aggravate the injury if he doesn't play for a short while.
Can I be sexist and not,politically correct ?
On post match interviews or even pre-match analysis do I need three women talking about my team telling me what they should be doing .?
I’m not saying anything that would incriminate me !
OFB
@original-fat-bob - Yes, much better than an unknown owner of any description! Maybe the plan is muscle in on the concert business (music acts, big comedians etc) that are currently going to the Newcastle Arena or Manchester Arena etc? Bring some life to the centre of Teesside? Why not?
@original-fat-bob Much like a recent donor to a political party, you can’t make a statement like that, including the phrase, “three women” and at the same time claim not to have incriminated yourself. You start by asking if you can be sexist and politically incorrect. Well I’m afraid you can’t, and if you’re allowed to, this Forum will have one fewer member from East Yorkshire. There’s no place for misogyny on this Forum, nor anywhere else come to that.
Just catching up on all posts from the last three or four days. Finding the discussion about season ticket renewals very interesting as I feel very conflicted at the moment. I would like to renew with my son but as previously stated, the price increases plus the lack of decent home fare served up this year makes it difficult to justify. Plus my other son is going to university in September and that rightly takes precedent. Travelling from York for every home game, especially mid week in winter, also makes you think twice although I appreciate that others travel far further. However the flexible payment plan without interest payments does make it more palatable. Like many others, a last minute decision as near to 30th March as possible, after much ruminating, will be the order of the day. UTB.
Totally understand your dilemma been there !
But I’ve always done it and never regretted going !
Up the Boro !
OFB
Riley Mcgree off injured after 15 minutes in Socceroos game v Lebanon.
Fears that McGree Injury could be the same injury that’s kept him out for so long.
OFB
@original-fat-bob - I must admit that although I've always renewed my seat at the Riverside (the same seat since the stadium opened - it's even got my name on a plaque on the seat back), there have been several "performances" by BORO that have caused me to regret going. Maybe I am becoming less tolerant of poor performances or poor results or both, but I bet it I had to pay the club an extra £50 for every game in the last year that I have endjoyed but got back £50 for every game I didn't enjoy, I'd be making money on the deal! It's not, over all, been a good season for the home supporter at The Riverside, so far.
And if Riley McGree comes back injured...(!).
@mw-in-darwin I hope it is not bad. Fingers crossed.
Meanwhile, just filling the space on the blog during the International break, Sam Greenwood top of the Championship fouling charts.
So far this season, Greenwood has made 31 Championship appearances for Middlesbrough.
According to WhoScored, the on-loan Leeds United man is conceding an average of 1.9 fouls per 90 minutes while he is on the pitch.
The next highest in that category is Sam Morsy. The Ipswich Town midfielder is conceding 1.7 tackles per game as things stand.
We all know it is Carrick's instructions for Greenwood that he should try to close the defenders down. But we also know that he is often late with his tackles. Suprisingly he has not been booked often. And the free kicks are not from dangerous positions, either.
Up the Boro!