@andy-r. “Unsure of what happens with Payero at this point.”
He either comes back and makes a positive impact under MC’s guidance or we recoup some money, c. £2M+ and are able to use funds for recruitment.
What we don’t know is the club’s/MC’s stance with regard to him.
I believe they don’t think he can make it/settle in Europe and want to cash in; shame if that is the case because I believe with the right support and given time, he will come good. 😎
Ps I agree totally with your squad assessment.
We all agree the probable fee for Steffen plus his wages means he will not be signed. So clearly Boro need another goalkeeper - but is there one already on the books ? I’m thinking of Robert’s who I don’t recollect he let the team down in his cameo of appearances plus he played a full season at his previous club - and I seem to think that he was their player of the year.
Philip of Huddersfield
@andy-r I get your points , but I believe you can't standstill, the team we had finished fourth , knocked out of the most important game of the year, tells me not quite good enough, so the goal should be to bring in players that will get it done, might not happen but you hope they do.
Hayden Hackney picked for Scotland under 21's. Manager is Scot Gemmill
In the few games Roberts played he actually looked a better shot stopper / traditional keeper than Steffen at the time. I think the problem was that he’s not particularly comfortable at playing out from the back, which is absolutely key to Carrick’s playing style.
Similar thing at Brighton where our own Jason Steele has supplanted the more accomplished Robert Sanchez in goal because De Zerbi wants a ball-playing keeper to start attacking moves.
Hopefully Roberts is working hard on that and can bridge the gap but he didn’t get much of a look in which suggests he’s not there yet.
If Carrick had been in all season we may have finished second. If Ramsey and Archer had been in all season we may also have finished second.
Ultimately we weren’t good enough because we gave the league a two month head start.
I agree with a lot of what had been said here. If we can keep the cream of our team (Hackney, Akpom, Lenihan, McGree seem to be the core ingredients) and bring back Giles and Ramsey (or equivalent) on loan or purchase we will have the core of a strong team but more importantly we seem to have a host of younger players who are at the point in their career to make substantial steps forward.
Even just looking up top, Forss, Hoppe, Coburn, Kavanaugh and Finch represent a really interesting group. Similarly with our young goalkeepers. This could be a pivotal moment for a lot of the players in their early twenties.
One area that is a bit if a worry is central midfield. Without Howson we really seemed to miss some drive. Who is going to take that role. Barlaser and Hackney seem quite similar. One top class addition here could be the key.
Also, on a separate topic, I was delighted to see that MFC have taken the Middlesbrough women’s team fully under the club’s control and appointed a top class manager. This will be a great chance for every kid in the area to play for their local club. I don’t have much to add but it must be good for everyone to see the strength if MFC out behind the women’s team.
utb
@andy-r Sorry I cannot agree overall with your synopsise Andy.
There are still too many weak links in the first eleven for me, to be able to make the impact in going for the top six and possibly auto.
The players are all a year older, of benefit to some, however Father Time to others. How long can Howson continue having some impact? How long can the defence continue giving away goals and not have the ability to keep a clean sheet?
IMO we need an upgrade on what we have left now in some areas.
As for Boro giving the League a head start, true. But arguably so did Coventry.
Don't forget a fully fit Fry. He should start every match. Our Beckenbauer... Up the Boro!
If Carrick had been in all season we may have finished second. If Ramsey and Archer had been in all season we may also have finished second.
Ultimately we weren’t good enough because we gave the league a two month head start.
The last month of season so was as awful as the Wilder time - at least result and especially goal scoring wise. We made too many changes last summer so the start was not THAT big surprice. But of course we expected more.
Up the Boro!
Coventry did give the league a head start as well but theirs was a little bit different - they didn’t play their opening three home games due to ground ownership issues. We were down there on merit! That said, we played a fair bit better than our results suggested in those first 4/5 games.
I’m not saying we don’t need signings and to move forward, just that we shouldn’t need 7/8/9+ players, especially if we can re-sign some of last season’s loanees.
Today I'm looking at Luton v Coventry, and I'm actually feeling angry, have we really had a postmortem o what happened over those two Playoff legs, yes it's almost like most comments have been about how far we came , over a period , Carrick is superman, but what happened, during that last international break, when we were flying, and came back utterly, without direction, did the coaching staff, just feel we are going to sail through and relax, but I'm now angry seems the motivation dropped, we have a team that noway should have not be there today.
I'm not going to watch any football, play offs friendlies or anything.
I’m still too sore about the whole season on what could have been our greatest chance for promotion for a long time.
OFB
Hi it was good to see MFC Formally adopt the ladies when they have been working under the Direction of Ben Fisher and Andy Campbell who was the coach.
Andy has unfortunately left the club but Ben Fisher has joined the new set up as the new General Manager.
I saw Ben at the ground at the last home game and had a chat. I’ve known him since he was 11 ! He played football as a goalkeeper for Nunthorpe Athletic with my youngest son. We went to tournaments in Denmark and Holland where I accompanied the team and helped out with official refereeing in the games for the other teams participating. All the players still keep in touch to this day and a great set of men with strong values and sportsmanship developed on the playing fields.
I’m sure the new set up for the Boro ladies will do well.
OFB
Today I'm looking at Luton v Coventry, and I'm actually feeling angry, have we really had a postmortem o what happened over those two Playoff legs, yes it's almost like most comments have been about how far we came , over a period , Carrick is superman, but what happened, during that last international break, when we were flying, and came back utterly, without direction, did the coaching staff, just feel we are going to sail through and relax, but I'm now angry seems the motivation dropped, we have a team that noway should have not be there today.
gt: I am not sure where you are heading with the above post, surely you are not suggesting we need a change of management team 😱, in mitigation I would suggest a number of factors since the international break. 1. Loss of form (every team goes through a period, unfortunately ours was at the worst time possible). 2. Injuries to some of the most influential players, Fry, Howson, Forss, Ramsey. 3. Carrick is in his first managerial appointment and he himself has said on many interviews, it is learning curve for himself and he will make mistakes and he will find out who will stick with him through the bad times as well as enjoying the good times. We’re the performances since the international break really that bad 🤔, yes Huddersfield (but the Warnock effect and not just against us), 1-2 a home against Burnley!, 2-2 away to an inform Bristol City, 5-1 home win against Norwich, 3-1 home win against Hull, controversial away 2-1 defeat against Luton (with more than half the regular first team missing) Yes a 0-1 defeat away at Rotherham (again with half the team missing and playoff’s guaranteed) then the 3 matches against Coventry which in reality we could have won 2 if not all three.
OFB: I will be watching the playoff final and want Luton to win, why 🤔, because it is less travelling for our away fans to Coventry. Am I sore about the whole season, definitely not !, I remember where we were when Carrick took over and the most enjoyable football at the Riverside I have seen in the last 22 years. I know people are saying Coventry were in the same position but they were not, if people care to remember Coventry were only there because of the state of their pitch and had at least 3 of their home matches postponed, which they later went on to win 2 and draw 1, so that early in the season they would have been near, if not in the top 6. As an afterthought where would they have been if they had got the 5 point deduction instead of it being suspended, for not having a pitch fit to play on at the start of the season !
I am looking forward to the new season where, I hope, we will continue to progress as a team and club, until we have the nucleus of a squad to be able to survive more than one season in the Premiership and therefore build further. I am also excited about our dealings in the transfer window, ins and outs, as Carrick starts to build his “own” squad, it may take a couple of seasons but it could be worth the wait UTB.
Come on BORO.
Well said exmil.
In spite of our disappointment I am looking forward to the Champs play off final, and, as is traditional, I hope that Coventry, as the team that knocked us out will go on and win it.
Mark Robins has done a great job there, playing the game in the right way on a shoestring budget.
They beat us against all expectations, but did so on merit, not least because in Gyokeres and Hamer they had the two best players on the pitch, and both were instrumental in the goal that saw them through.
Had we progressed we might even have had the pair playing for us next season.
Luton are favourites but it's 2-1 to Coventry to upset the odds for me
I think Boro’s prospects next season might be better served by Luton going up, as I can see Coventry losing a few key players over the summer if they fail to prevail in a way that Luton may not.
That said, I prefer Coventry and hope that they win this afternoon.
I’ve not been able to bring myself to watch the Play off Final - I’m not angry, just disappointed.
Instead, we’ve sat in the sunshine at our static van, with one of our daughters and her partner, eating a picnic and drinking fizz. I’d rather have been watching us play Luton, but it’s a nice second best.
Yes, I said at the time he was on side, even more annoying, the linesman was absolutely in the perfect position to get it right. But my opinion of the officials in general is that they are very poor. In this case he was showboating and knew that he could give the home fans a little treat without any comeback. Same subject, one of the matches for the final places this week, good goal for Man United, check for off side, well back up the pitch, absolutely clear off side. Crowd holding their breath, carefull study by the officials. No off side, goal stands.
Wanted Coventry to win but there we go that's penalties.
With ref to the so called nothing games I believe as I said before that Boro should have played their best team in all of them and maybe and just maybe we would have been in a better position for the play offs.
That's all we need another London team they'll be able to yack about,
I have to admit that I'm glad that Luton won. It's a more romantic story. Maybe I'm upset because they knocked us out but I fet that Coventry played boring football and, as said above, they will now lose Gyokeres and others and may drop away next year.
Regarding next year's squad, am I the only one who thinks that the Teeside Gazette gets its articles by reading Diasboro.
There's an article on there about returning youngsters that could have been taken straight from our discussions on this page.
UTB
Regarding next year's squad, am I the only one who thinks that the Teesside Gazette gets its articles by reading Diasboro.
It's just churnalism. Craig Johns is clearly under contract to write two articles a day, day-in, day-out. Without press conferences and match reports, then he spins out whatever social media postings, rumours and events he can.
He's not employed to go rooting through the club's bins looking for massive exposes to publish and hidden secrets to expose. He also has to be mindful about the club being prickly about what's published about them; especially when he writes opinion pieces.
He does his job perfectly well. Many of us on here could also do it but would hate every minute of working in a content factory and I'm not convinced we would be notably better at it.
Perhaps this is for a different thread as we look back on the season past, but thought it was worth breaking the season down into chunks to see how we fared.
I've included Championship games only, and syphoned off the Wilder and Leo sections:
| Date | Manager | P | W | D | L | G | A | Pts | PPG |
| 30/07 - 03/10 | Wilder | 11 | 2 | 4 | 5 | 12 | 16 | 10 | 0.91 |
| 04/10 - 23/10 | Perocvich | 5 | 2 | 1 | 2 | 6 | 5 | 7 | 1.40 |
| 24/10 - 02/01 | Carrick | 10 | 7 | 0 | 3 | 22 | 12 | 21 | 2.10 |
| 03/01 - 11/03 | Carrick | 10 | 8 | 0 | 2 | 23 | 6 | 24 | 2.40 |
| 12/03 - 08/05 | Carrick | 10 | 3 | 3 | 4 | 20 | 15 | 12 | 1.20 |
@andy-r. Spells it out more clearly how much of a downturn in performance/results there was after the international break.
Over the 30 games under MC we averaged 1.9 pts per game which is close to automatic promotion but with the poor start we had this was realistically not achievable.
Whilst we justifiably claimed a top six position we couldn’t get over the promotion line as our sticky patch came at the wrong time in the season coupled with injuries to key personnel.
Let’s hope that we can keep the majority of the squad together and MC can build on what was, overall, a memorable year of Boro football. 😎
You could cut it a slightly different way: include the playoff games but discount the 3 x dead rubbers to give a sense of how we did in the games that mattered under Carrick.
That would be (I think) P29 W18 D4 L7 PPG 2.0
Lots of ifs, buts and maybes but over the season it’s very good overall.
Clearly the final part of the season did see quite the drop-off however and the management need to look at that and understand it. Was it the injuries, was it the meaningless games, or was it something more concerning that needs addressing?
Clearly the final part of the season did see quite the drop-off however and the management need to look at that and understand it. Was it the injuries, was it the meaningless games, or was it something more concerning that needs addressing
Agreed. It's tempting to compare it to the last 10 games of the previous season under Wilder where there was a similar drop off. In that case, though, it was a failure to perform under pressure. This season, we achieved our primary goal - qualifying for the play-offs - then there was a drop off after it was achieved. That's fairly common. After Burnley beat us and clinched promotion they won 1, drew 2, lost 1 which was their worst run of results in around 6 months.
You do always worry with a first-time manager whether their good spell will prove to have been beginner's luck. I don't think so with Carrick but he still has it all to prove.
@deleriad. “You do always worry with a first-time manager whether their good spell will prove to have been beginner's luck. I don't think so with Carrick but he still has it all to prove.”
So very true. In all businesses incoming managers can often make an initial positive impact. The crux is can they maintain and build on what they initially achieved.
MC is clearly a people person which will be very much in his favour when dealing with a squad of players. Add to that his outstanding playing record and experience of working with the most successful managers, then he has all the ingredients to be a success, which I think he will given the right support. 😎