@ Pedro de Espana. “Too expensive and risky given his age and injury record”.
We don’t know the costs yet and whilst there will be younger and cheaper options they won’t have his experience or leadership qualities; since we lost Grant Leadbitter we have truly missed a player who can direct, cajole and organise others on the field.
As far as injuries are concerned, I think since going to Norwich and playing regularly it has not been a major issue.
Keep in mind that SG has previous as far as old boys are concerned so it is not beyond the bounds of possibilities if the figures stack up and Norwich may be looking to reduce their wage bill. 😎
I have watched some snippets of Forest games recently and noticed a few things about Spence's play compared to Jones. He doesn't hug the touchline and appears more like a right midfielder, other teams don't seem to mark him as closely as they do Jones and he rarely busted a gut to get back and defend when the opposition had the ball down his side to say he was jogging would have been an exaggeration. I have not seen a full game so maybe he does more than this because I think one of Jones' best attributes is his chasing back to defend, he makes 1.9 tackles per game as opposed to Spence who makes 1.4.
I have watched some snippets of Forest games recently and noticed a few things about Spence's play compared to Jones. He doesn't hug the touchline and appears more like a right midfielder, other teams don't seem to mark him as closely as they do Jones and he rarely busted a gut to get back and defend when the opposition had the ball down his side to say he was jogging would have been an exaggeration. I have not seen a full game so maybe he does more than this because I think one of Jones' best attributes is his chasing back to defend, he makes 1.9 tackles per game as opposed to Spence who makes 1.4.
Spence players narrower and further back than Jones. When attacking he tends to be on or around the corner of the 18 yard box. Jones plays further forward and hugs the touchline.
From earlier in the season and the bits of the Forest matches I've seen, I think Spence has better defensive awareness than Jones; he plays a bit more like Dijksteel in that he has pace and strength but looks like he lopes around the pitch rather than sprinting.
Jones plays like a pressing winger; quite a lot of his tackles are very high up the pitch. Jones is also blessed with pace and stamina so can chase back and catch an attacker; quite like Tav in that respect. Spence doesn't usually have to chase back.
All in all, Spence is a more orthodox wing-back while Jones is playing more like a defensive winger. Forest tend to play 3-4-3 or 3-4-1-2 while we play 3-5-2 which means we have one more defensive player in midfield than Forest, allowing Jones to get further forward because Howson is tasked to keep an eye on counters.
@deleriad. allowing Jones to get further forward because Howson is tasked to keep an eye on counters.
That has been one of our major problems of late, getting caught on the counter.
May be to counter that CW will have to reinvent himself and his system as you suggested. Or better defensive midfielders.
KP,
Yes, definitely. It’s hard to see where the cash for a rebuild is without selling Spence. The cup run will have done us some good though and we have lost a lot of high earners over the last few years - some of them astronomically high earners.
If it’s doable somehow, it looks tasty:
GK
Djijsteel Fry Gibson
Spence Crooks McGree Tav
Jones ST Watmore
Not against that ST being Uche with Coburn regularly coming off the bench tbh. Bola can also come on and move Tav forward to give Watmore a break.
Potentially doable with just BG and a keeper then. Maybe!
Andy, the truth is, in my opinion, we need more than three or four players to be a permanent top six contender.
Spence we all believe is headed for the Premier League with a high fee to compensate. He wants to be there and it would we very good business.
I think where Ben Gibson is concerned we may have to factor his ability as a leader into his worth. I see a big difference in our defence when Sol Bamba is playing. He organises others around him and his lack of pace is balanced by his excellent positional awareness.
Woodgate had that awareness too and often looked like the defensive glue that held the back line together.
For a bit of fun I have just completed the gazette predictor, I only allowed myself a couple of seconds as each fixture came up for every remaining match of the season and this was my final table:
Your predictions for the top 8 are the same as mine will be after part three of the Exmil Challenge - I hope we are both right!
Talking of predictions, I was amazed to see that I followed up my part 1 Exmil challenge with a solid part 2 to top the table - indeed only Boro let me down with a meagre 3 points. I guess that's the problem, I'm always typing with my foam hands when making Boro predictions 😀
btw I edited the code on your Gazette predictor table as without their stylesheet it doesn't really work as the badges come through full size with no gaps between columns.
Andy,
I just don't see Spence coming back, I don't think he would want to and whilst I agree your suggestions might be doable, what about backups? I see up to possibly 12+ players departing this season.
Joe Lumley, Sol Bamba?, Lee Peltier, Hayden Coulson, Neil Taylor, Grant Hall, Djed Spence, Jonny Howson?, Uche Ikpeazu, Andraz Sporar, Aaron Connolly, Folarin Balogun. In addition, there are still big question marks around Darnell Fisher and Sammy Ameobi.
In my view its is worth paying a small premium for BG given his leadership qualities and I also think a big rebuild is required if we are going to develop a squad which can get us close to the top of the league and hold it's own in the PL, with some tweaking once we get there. It will be a very interesting summer come what may. 😎
FOREVER DORMO !
I accepted the entry from Peasepudinperth this morning as I think everyone had Huddersfield to win last night, so if you can post your entry before 3 this afternoon I will accept it or if anyone has contact with him please let him know.
Come on BORO.
Peasepudinperth !
You have missed one of Forest matches, please correct asap.
Come on BORO.
I'm with Pedro when it comes to Ben Gibson, nearly every time I've seen him play this season he's either been caught for pace, caught out of position or made errors leading to goals. He hasn't looked PL class and has not looked his best for nearly five years now - his performances in his last season at Boro weren't that great and is ill-fated move to Burnley meant he hardly kicked a football for over a year. It's a bit of a shame as he had great potential in his early twenties but perhaps he was made to look better when the defence was shielded by Leadbitter and Clayton.
Not sure if he's made to be an overlapping full-back either - that would have been more up Ayala or Friend's street but they're passed it now. Whether his leadership qualities are strong enough to accommodate his failings is open to debate but it's a retrograde move for me and I also suspect Boro would struggle to match his wages at Norwich, which he's under contracted with until 2024 after reported signing for a fee of £8m - so he wouldn't come on a free either.
It does appear there will be plenty of outgoings even if Boro are not promoted - not sure which from your list are out of contract but there's a lot of deadwood to clear - especially Ameobi and can't blame you for forgetting about Siliki! Spence may well be the cash cow that pays for the rebuild with perhaps £15m or so raised by his sale.
Team News: Well Wilder has finally seen the light and will start with Coburn and Watmore - looks like quite an attacking line-up with Bamba back in defence.
Werdermouth.
As I understand it, Bamba, Peltier, Taylor, and Howson are out of contract.
I don’t believe that Uche, Spence or Coulson have futures at the club. I also don’t think the four loanees will be re-employed so lots of outgoings. 😎
I agree with the posts against BG tbh. I’m a big fan of his in terms of his commitment, professionalism and leadership but he would take too much of the budget when we have several spots to fill. Just a shame he’s not available on a free.
Onto today. Interesting line-up. All week I was feeling like Swansea might end our season this afternoon but there’s a bit of a feel good factor after the presser yesterday and now we have Coburn starting.
I’ve taken the foam hands out of the drawer again….
Forget about Ben Gibson, we have had to many duds return in the past!
Forget about Ben Gibson, we have had to many duds return in the past!
Yep, that little Brazilian chap was hopeless wasn’t he? 😉
I admire your restraint in not mentioning Jonathan Woodgate's brother-in-law 😉
Forget about Ben Gibson, we have had to many duds return in the past!
Yep, that little Brazilian chap was hopeless wasn’t he? 😉
He was the only one Martin, best ever player for Boro but handled badly by Mclaren in the end.
I admire your restraint in not mentioning Jonathan Woodgate's brother-in-law 😉
That's a beauty Werder. Love it!
I’m sure there’s a long list of returning players but I’m struggling to think of many especially many who were poor?
Pally - perfectly fine though clearly best days behind him
Cooper? See Pally
Juninho - first spell was the best but still v good on returns
Downing - sorry Malcolm. Personally thought he was unwanted and shockingly managed but generally one of our best when he played
Does Gaston count? Ended badly but brilliant for the most part.
Who’ve I missed?
Bamford? Great.
Kalas? Decent.
I’m sure there’s a long list of returning players but I’m struggling to think of many especially many who were poor?
Pally - perfectly fine though clearly best days behind him
Cooper? See Pally
Juninho - first spell was the best but still v good on returns
Downing - sorry Malcolm. Personally thought he was unwanted and shockingly managed but generally one of our best when he played
Does Gaston count? Ended badly but brilliant for the most part.
Who’ve I missed?
I’m sure Ken will have some historical names for the returning players list.
I entirely agree about SD. He should have been a star in this league but our manager didn’t seem to want to play to his strengths. Lots of fans seemed to think he was stealing a living but if you are persuaded (by SG?) to come home and then not played in the way you’d been promised you’d be pretty unhappy.
For those needing an unofficial link then this one is currently working
You'll just need to persist in closing pop-ups!
Martin
How about David Mills?
Not the most enthralling 45 minutes - Swansea with plenty of possession and have passed it neatly around the pitch without really threatening in the final third. Boro haven't done much with the ball when they've had other than a couple of chances with Watmore needing to at least hit the target with his opportunity. It feels like a game that will be decided by a defensive error as Boro have kept their shape and not allowed Swansea any clear chances - likewise Swansea have passed it around Boro and made it hard for us to gain any momentum.
It’s been the game we might have expected so far. Swansea largely in control of possession such is the way they’ve played for years but vulnerable at the back when they don’t beat the Boro press.
Best chance of the half wasted when Watmore criminally failed to hit the target or pick out Coburn after Boro nicked the ball off the Swans as they tried to play it out. That looks our most likely route to goal.
Neither side greatly threatening so far and the first goal - if there is one - likely to be the winner.
Huge 45mins ahead for Boro.
I like watching teams who pass and move but if there is no end product to it then what is the point of it all! Swansea 80% possession and no shots on goal.
We need to find a way to close them down more, get on the ball and take chances when we can. Still in it and need just one goal. 😎