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Sunderland v Boro
 

Sunderland v Boro

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Players' wages -  Just read an article in the Hartlepool Mail that lists the wages of the highest-paid 15 Boro players. I knew that Steffen, being a Man City player was on astonomical wages (I think in an earlier thread I suggested it was £49K a week, as that was the figure given to me) I accept that a very large chunk of his salary will be met by his parent club, but I will list the actual figures, or at least those quoted in the Mail in its online article, below.  Feel free to add your two-pennorth!

These are, for the avoidance of doubt, the WEEKLY pay in good old £ Sterling:

Steffen -                80

Chuba Akpom -      27

Jonny Howson -     20

McNair -                17

Lenighan -             17

Matt Clarke -         17

Forss -                  14

Mowatt -               13

Dijksteel -             8.5

Whatmore -          8.5

Darnell Fisher (!) - 8.4

Bola -                   8.4

Crooks -               6.9

McGree -              6.7

 

Say what you like about those figures but if I were Dael Fry, Hayden Hackney or our No 3, I'd be making an appointment to see the manager.

Realistically, with the price of tickets to La Scala, the Met or Glyndbourne, and the difficulty in ordering a decent Bentley for early delivery, not to mention Dom Perignon vintages, how is a man to pay for the essentials in these times of financial austerity and increasing fuel bills?

 

This post was modified 1 year ago by Forever Dormo

Clive Hurren
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I forgot to give my prediction for Sunday’s game. I’ll settle for any win, but 6-0,  7-0 or 8-0 would suit me fine, this being the enemy ! 


   
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Players' wages - MY BAD (as youngsters say, these days) but I SHOULD have said £19K for McNair rather than £17K, and I should have included Muniz in that list at £10K.  A week.


   
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Belated thanks for the starter OFB. I hadn't even got my thoughts together about the Millwall match before you were ready for Sunderland! I thought we played well in the 1st half against Millwall and there were some great crosses from Giles that we would normally expect someone to put in the net. It was a great goal from Forss who can certainly hit the ball hard and accurately when given the chance. Akpom was again very much involved in getting the ball forward even though he didn't score. McNair did a good job standing in for Lenihan. Good defensive play under pressure but I was very relieved when the final whistle went.

Back to Radio Tees commentary on Sunday. Sunderland were on a good run so I expect they will give us a hard game on their own ground but I will hope we prove the stronger team.

I picked up cold and sore throat, probably on the journey home as I woke on Wednesday feeling ill. Hope I am over it by Sunday. 

 


   
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@david-in-cumbria - Hope you're feeling better soon.


   
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Ken Smith
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I have to agree with Sunderland fans that fixtures against Boro cannot be classed as ‘local derbies’; I would prefer the term ‘local rivalries’ the same term that is associated about matches between Crystal Palace and Brighton which are   only 4 miles further apart than Middlesbrough and Sunderland are. I have never heard cricket matches between Yorkshire and Durham referred to as derby matches, more like rivalries between neighbouring counties. Surely the term ‘local derbies’ can only be used by teams from the same town or city, which will also exclude matches between Sunderland and Newcastle as well. 

Nevertheless, I always look forward to beating our ‘local rivals’, especially cricket matches between Yorkshire and Lancashire, as well as Boro against Sunderland, Newcastle and Leeds.

This post was modified 1 year ago 2 times by Ken Smith

   
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On Sky transfer centre:

Middlesbrough to try again for Leyton Orient’s Daniel Nkrumah

Middlesbrough are expected to go back with a second offer for Leyton Orient’s Daniel Nkrumah - ‘Boro have already had one bid turned down for the 19-year-old this week. 

Nkrumah is expected to be part of Leyton Orient’s first team squad again this weekend after being on the bench last Saturday following his recall from loan - Leyton Orient see him as one for the future.

Come on BORO.


   
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Mogga apparently has serious injury problems among his defenders;

https://www.gazettelive.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/sunderland-defensive-injury-problems-middlesbrough-26032479


   
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@stircrazy 

stircrazy 

 

Sounds like a bit of gamesmanship from Mogga to me!

OFB


   
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@ken 

it was interesting to hear Michael Carrick refer to the game as a local Derby in his press conference today and so did the journalists.

OFB


   
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Ken Smith
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@ OFB

He certainly did, but I’d be very surprised if Michael Carrick had described meetings between Manchester United and Liverpool in the same vein, considering the two Lancashire cities are similarly distanced. I agree that Boro fans and Teesside journalists would like to think that Sunderland/Middlesbrough encounters ARE local derbies as by convention that is what they have been called since time immemorial. But in reality one can’t describe matches between towns 30 plus miles apart as derby matches, as neither set of football fans can claim ‘bragging rights’ for beating near neighbours, no matter how desirable.

Perhaps it’s just a ruse to drum up additional support for the side, which is  not really necessary as a maximum of 3 away points can only be awarded if Boro win ANY away match be it at Turf Moor or Bramall Lane. 

This post was modified 1 year ago 2 times by Ken Smith

   
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@ken - I suppose on your analysis Boro could never have a local derby.  Hartlepool and Darlington are not likely to be in the same division/league as Boro in any future I can foresee but if they had been in the same division/league I suppose they'd be regarded as "local rivalries".   I suppose Boro might have a "regional rivalry" but only IF you take Middlesbrough to be in the same region as Newcastle and Sunderland - whereas we are told the old traditional boundaries are to be respected so, if Redcar and Yarm are in North Yorkshire (or "part of the historical County of the North Riding of Yorkshire") then I guess Middlesbrough is as well.  It remains south of the River Tees which for many centuries was the dividing line between the North Riding and County Durham.  Newcastle and Sunderland are further away from Teesside than Harltepool and Darlington so if H+D are "local" N+S might be "regional".  Where that leaves Hull, York or Scarborough, I don't know.  And as for Leeds...(!!).

The rivalry between Brighton and Palace is more intense than might be expected in view of the distance (40 miles) between the 2 clubs though, for many years Palace was Brighton's nearest neighbour in the Football League until Crawley Town was promoted into the League. Palace had lots of London competitors much nearer to them than Brighton. I won't waste time going into detail but I don't think the Brighton/Palace games were thought of as any special sort of rivalry until recent decades (though I seem to remember Brighton playing their home games at Palace when their new stadium was being built/made ready).

On the cricket front, although matches against Lancashire have history on their side, I'm now more interested in Yorkshire's games against Durham. I still like Lancashire to be beaten, though. Both Lancashire and Durham have recently played "home" cricket fixtures in Yorkshire - Durham at Scarborough and Lancashire at Sedbergh School (Sedbergh being traditionally part of the West Riding but more recently "transferred" to Cumbria, and with a Lancaster post-code). Then again the postcode for North Yorkshire's County Town, Northallerton, is a Darlington, Co Durham postcode, but I won't go on......

This post was modified 1 year ago by Forever Dormo

   
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“A 'derby' is a match between local rivals. i.e. teams that are from the same city or the same part of the country. These local games have a special place in the hearts of fans and players.”

Given the above definition I would venture the opinion that Boro v Sunderland, Boro v Newcastle, Boro v Darlington, Boro v Hartlepool are all derby matches.  

If one accepts that we are all part of the North East and given that neither of the two footballing cities (Durham excluded) in the region have more than one club then I do not accept that a distance of 30 miles disqualifies us from being a derby against Sunderland or the other teams in the region.

Derby to Nottingham is 29 miles but the clubs/fans are the fiercest of rivals and matches are regarded as derby games, meeting the criteria of local rivals.

Therefore in my view we have a derby game on Sunday which I fiercely want us to win. CoB 😎

This post was modified 1 year ago 2 times by K P in Spain

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My forecast for Sundays game is ....I don't know 😮

 


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@k-p-in-spain - I fiercely want Boro to win the game as well. Then again, I want them to win every game. Two more sleeps...


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@forever-dormo 

Thanks. Unfortunately with so many trains involved in my journeys to Boro matches coughs, colds and a sore throat have become a normal part of my winter support and this season I had the added bonus of Covid after the pre-season friendly match. I seem to have weak veins in my nose so as well as the discomfort of a cold I get nose bleeds which means I need a lot of tissues! 

Now that the time/date of our final home match has been fixed I decided to book my hotel early and as I can't travel over on the day for the 12:00 kick off and getting home after the match on a Bank Holiday could also be awkward I was able to get a room for the Sunday and Monday nights for a combined £72 as compared with over £60 per night for a single night for the Watford and Blackpool games. I won't be at those 2 games but will try to get to at least 5 other matches subject to Sky switching any dates and the rail strikes. 


Powmill-Naemore
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I am trying to organise a little bit of a family get together centred on us all attending the PNE game using one of the hospitality packages. With none of the family living in the area any longer, everyone will be travelling, and some a great distance. Damn Sky for leaving it so close to the date of the fixture before we can be sure of both the date and the time. It makes it really difficult to plan this.

On the other hand, I am glad Sky is covering the match on Sunday as I will be glued to the screen over Sunday lunch. With The Baggies losing last night I really hope we will get a win. But I will not jinx things by changing my earlier prediction of 2-2. 

Isn't it great to experience that sense of anticipation for a game again.

CoB

This post was modified 1 year ago by Powmill-Naemore

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The sports presenters on TYNE TEES AND LOOK NORTH TV all referred to the game on Sunday between Sunderland and Boro as a local Derby. 

That’s good enough for me.

OFB


   
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@original-fat-bob

Most dictionaries define the word as a match between two teams from the same town or area. I think it correct to describe Tyne-Tees as an area in the wider North East Region. So this is definitely a derby game according to the English language.

 


Ken Smith
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As far as Middlesbrough FC are concerned matches between Boro and Sunderland have always been classed as local derbies, but I doubt that matches against Darlington and Hartlepool could be classed in the same vein as Boro have only played the Quakers on 6 occasions, two of which were in the FA Cup in 1985 when Boro lost in a replay at Feethams, and Boro had never faced Pools in any match (even a friendly) until 1987 when the two teams were drawn together in the 1st Round of the League Cup over two legs in 1987 and are not likely to play each other again in the foreseeable future.

However, I can understand the Black Cats view in not classing matches at Roker Park against Boro as almost non-competitive. Roker Park was Sunderland’s 7th different home stadium when it was opened in 1898 and if ever a stadium produced so many one-sided results against the opposition it was Roker Park. Boro lost the inaugural league fixture 1-2 there in 1902 and eventually played 51 league games there, but only won 4 of them In seasons 1920/21, 1938/39, 1973/74 and their last match there in 1994/95, drawing 14 times, but losing the other 33 matches. It became known as the biggest graveyard for any one visiting team in the history of English football.

If ever a change of location would ever mark a turnaround, it was Sunderland’s move to the Stadium of Light 99 years later. Since 1997 Boro have played 15 league matches at this new stadium, winning 8 and drawing 3 of those 15 matches. What a turnaround that has been! League results at Ayresome Park and at the Riverside Stadium have usually been in Boro’s favour with 31 wins, 19 drawn and 19 defeats from the 67 matches which included a 6-0 win in the 1935/36 season followed by a 5-5 draw in the following season.

Obviously a difficult result to predict tomorrow, though I would settle for a share    of the spoils on Sunday which would at least preserve the status quo.


   
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Ken Smith
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Why the term of Derby was ever used for football is debatable, as it refers to the Earl of Derby who gave his name to horse racing at Epsom that was even copied in the USA at Kentucky. The first Lord Derby was ordained in 1139, and one of his successors was also president of the European Golf circuit at the same time as president of the Rugby Football League during the mid 1960s and early 1970s. A derby hat was also an American hat termed similar to a bowler hat in Britain, but I’m certainly not going into the history of that, as I think I’ve read enough about Derbies lately.


Philip of Huddersfield
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I’ve always regarded a match against Sunderland as a Derby but the biggest north east Derby is obviously Sunderland against Newcastle. However if Boro win, lose or draw then I’m not really bothered if it’s a Derby or not.

The tactics will be interesting regarding Giles who played as a winger for Mowbray last season at Blackburn but not as a wingback. I wouldn’t be surprised if he targeted Giles who can’t tackle and whose positional play is all at sea when defending. This may sound harsh on Giles who I regard as one of the best crosses of a ball but not good defensively  .

id take a draw now ……. But part of me  thinks a win is possible. 
Pity Lenihan is unfit - the lack of information about his injury makes me think it’s worse than hoped for and so I’m keeping my fingers crossed that McNair can fill the breach for a few more games.

Watched a good Championship game last night. WBA looked for a long time as though they’d be the first team to win at Burnley but were undone by 2 goals in the last 15 minutes. It was a game where you could clearly see why Burnley are miles ahead of the rest of us and why WBA have had a tremendous run in their last dozen games.

Philip of Huddersfield 👍👋


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Championship promotion-chasers Sheffield United have been placed under a transfer embargo by the English Football League. The move relates to a breach of rule 52.2.3, which concerns the default of payments to another club. The EFL has not specified which club or player the matter relates to.

OFB


   
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SHEFFIELD UTD CONTD

However, the move means the Blades cannot register a player "without the written prior consent of the league" until the overdue payment is made.

The South Yorkshire side said in a statement: "Club officials remain in constant dialogue with relevant stakeholders, with the aim of working to a resolution early next week.

"The club would like to thank the EFL for its assistance and taking into account a number of unique circumstances.

"The board of directors would like to assure supporters that promotion to the Premier League remains the primary objective this season and will continue to support Paul Heckingbottom and the team."

Sheffield United are second in the Championship, five points behind leaders Burnley but 11 ahead of third-placed Watford.

They still receive parachute payments following their relegation from the Premier League in 2021.

In their most recent financial statement, to June 2021, published on 5 April 2022, Sheffield United owed £18.25m in outstanding transfer payments, with £2.49m owed to the club.

The club's owner Prince Abdullah has been in talks with an unnamed buyer over a potential takeover, which manager Paul Heckingbottom said had been impacting on their January transfer plans.

OFV


   
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Interview with MC on BBC1 now 

OFB


   
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@ken - I know you like The Arts and, though unable to travel out these days, you have access via the internet to the digital world out there. In that case I have a suggestion for you: put "Areopagus the cultural tutor" into Google or whatever search engine you use.  Go to the site and sign up/subscribe - it is free.

I don't know how I came upon the site (maybe via a Twitter link) but every Friday our "tutor" publishes a sort of newsletter which contains pieces of interest on various subjects, in the same categories. It is a really worthwhile read and, sometimes, listen.

This week for example, he had:

I)  Classical Music - LENTO (Howard Skempton 1990 performed by the BBC Symphony Orch)

II) Historical Figure -ENHEDUANNA (1st named writer whose works are recorded 23rd?24thC BC)

III) Painting - THE GLEANERS (J-F Millet 1857)

IV) Architectural Masterpiece - Lincoln Cathedral

V) Rhetoric - Enthymemes. Syllogisms (A+B = C: Flowers have petals, Roses have petals, thus a Rose is a flower) with one part missing which we apparently sometimes use without realising

VI) Writing - Learning from (reading) the worst rather than the best or the Greats

VII) "The Seventh Plinth" -a short essay to answer "Why study History"

AND selected responses to last week's Question of the Week - Nature v Nurture (next week we will get quotations from readers' responses to the piece on "Why study History").

 

Just thought it might be of interest...

 


   
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Powmill-Naemore
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@forever-dormo 

  • Thanks for posting that tip to Ken, about Areopagus. It sounds very interesting and I might dip into there as well if you have no objection to some more of us muscling in for a little bit of culture 😉 

   
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Ken Smith
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Thanks Forever Dormo; I most certainly will give Aereopagus a try. As I get older the more my tastes become wider. As OFB recently remarked the older we get the little we know, which reminds me of a Sinatra masterpiece written by Carolyn Leigh and Phil Springer in 1956. It goes something like this:-

How little we know! How much to discover     
What chemical forces flow from lover to lover?          
How little we understand what triggers off that tingle             
That sudden explosion when two tingles intermingle.
Who cares to define what chemistry this is? 
Who cares with your lips on mine, how ignorant bliss is?    
So long as you kiss me, and the World around us shatters How little it matters, how little we know!

 

Perhaps nothing about learning new subjects in one’s dotage, but very popular when I was courting my future wife in the mid-fifties when I became even distracted from football and cricket for a while. It was at a time when Sinatra rose from being mainly a Bing Crosby crooner in Tommy Dorsey’s Band to his new style of legato singing by stretching the vowels. More brilliant the older he became.

This post was modified 1 year ago 13 times by Ken Smith

   
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For those who may be interested in both cultural matters and local derbies there is always the Madrid derby to consider.

Who can forget last seasons scoreline:

Real Madrid 0  Surreal Madrid  A fish

This post was modified 1 year ago 2 times by lenmasterman

   
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For the first time in a few years I’m getting really excited about Boro playing in a Derby.

Am I being over optimistic? Realistic? Certainly not pessimistic ?

A Boro lad leading a Mackem team playing against a Geordie lad managing a Boro team.

OFB


   
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