@original-fat-bob it wasnt that good, the scary/disappointing thing is they played the better football but appear to be worse at scoring than us, I thought they should have had a pen from the lumley tackles, positives........ erm
That must go down as one of the most painful games to watch for a very long time. I think the level was so poor it predated Pulis and probably went as far back as Strachan. The patched-up defence looked cobbled together at times, yet Bamba was immense and my MOM. The midfield and Strikers however were all playing in their normal roles with none of them square pegged yet we were hopeless in open play and couldn’t string two passes together.
At times it was almost comedic with players tripping over themselves, even the Referee joined in and that’s without including the Lino swap farce. How on earth does it take that long to swap two officials? Surely the fourth official should be already miked up, kitted out and ready to roll.
The introduction of Jones sparked some hope after the most soporific of displays from both sides. The best thing for me was the emergence of Payero in the second half who looked to find his confidence and started to play tantalising defence splitting through balls. The result will have kept the pitchforks at bay for the time being but it took a penalty to break the Posh and up to that point it could have gone either way or at least as far as the comatose inducing “entertainment” allowed.
Nothing has been decided by this afternoon’s match but the opposition are the worst side in the division and yet you couldn’t separate the two with a Rizla paper. The pressure may be temporarily eased by the end result but the methodology was far from convincing, indeed it asked more even questions than it answered.
Unfortunately RR, it was only the worst game since Reading a few weeks ago.
Can’t argue with the sentiment though - three very welcome and much needed points but as convincing as it was entertaining.
I will give Hernandez some credit for sticking to his unfamiliar task pretty well in the circumstances. Howson did ok too - I mentioned at the back end of last season that I think the right of a back three might be his position now as his legs start to fade.
Jones for Ikpeazu in a 3-4-3 looks the only thing that can be done for the Barnsley game, though Peltier is back so maybe he comes into the defence.
Simply put, that was a performance and a result that will change no one's mind. It was the absolute bare minimum expected of a result and not even that as a performance. You get the feeling that 20 other teams in the league would have beaten us. We also got very lucky.
Will we build on this? It doesn't seem likely but stranger things have happened in football. The only real question is whether Warnock goes sooner or later.
Simply put, that was a performance and a result that will change no one's mind. It was the absolute bare minimum expected of a result and not even that as a performance. You get the feeling that 20 other teams in the league would have beaten us. We also got very lucky.
Will we build on this? It doesn't seem likely but stranger things have happened in football. The only real question is whether Warnock goes sooner or later.
We had hoped that after the Blades match we might build only to inevitably crumble again.
The Players look as dispirited as the Coaching staff, playing without conviction or belief, their body language was a far more intriguing watch than the game itself. I'm guessing that the Manager's constant whining and negativity about everything and everyone has steadily ground them down. You can see undoubted individual talent and ability but it's not joined up. As we have said on here previously "all the right notes, just not necessarily in the right order".
Unfortunately RR, it was only the worst game since Reading a few weeks ago.
Reading may have been worse but this afternoon was even worsererer 🙂
From The Gazette!
Digesting team news
Actual Boro team with no formation leaves more questions than answers because we know some people are likely to be out of position. Is it 4-4-2/3-4-3? I'd guess the latter with Howson in the back three, but I did put forward the idea of Crooks going there, so we shall see at KO
He’s lost the players hasn’t he and there’s no coming back once that happens. I can see players buying into NW if it’s all about avoiding relegation but he’s a busted flush as a manager chasing promotion. The football world has moved on - I think he’s usually jumps before he’s sacked so I hope he has a long chat with SG about what happens next. I think there’s a possibility that he’s already had that chat and the cogs of change are whirring in the background.
Well some wag on the BBC website wrote “Premier League here we come”. Mind he didn’t say which Premiers League, could have been referring to the Northern Premiers League in which Whitby Town perform.
Although Hibs got beat yesterday Nathan Wood had a very good game.
I listened to the match as the stream I did manage to get onto was blacked out after about 20 mins with a message it was illegal.
Payero looks to have the ability to unlock defences and needs more game time. Coburn took his goal ever so well and guided the ball into the net; I had visions of Britt in a similar position blasting it over the bar.
Overall I was not impressed with what I did see and hear but clearly on this blog we know nothing, as Colin Murray and Ian Holloway on Quest said it was a highly entertaining game!
At the end of the day we got three points but were lucky to do so given Posh should have had a penalty at 0-0 and there could have been a completely different outcome.
To struggle to beat a team who will probably return to Division 1 next season says it all for me that NW does not have the solution to our problems and the defensive injuries are a helpful smokescreen to distract from his failings.
It can only be hoped that SG is working on a replacement but given recent history on appointments that does not fill me with any confidence that things will change for the better. 😎
@k-p-in-spain agree that it was not entertaining, I assume the quest pundits only see the edited high/low lights so would appear better than it actually was. As I said earlier Pboro played the better football
It must be something of he nature of a poor Championship that if Boro see off Barnsley in midweek then in all likelihood they'll only be three points off the play-offs with nearly three-quarters of the season left.
However, while I still think there's a decent team somewhere among the squad - it's a question of whether Neil Warnock can discover it or if he's the barrier to allowing it to flourish.
We've already seen how the manager has discarded probably our most dangerous-looking attacking player in Jones without any real reason other than he was blamed for losing his man when Boro conceded several phases later. Now after seeing the emergence of Payero as a galvanising force and potentially the player we'd hope to see, Warnock's post-match reaction seemed to highlight his failure to stick to a more rigid defensive play...
"There were still silly things like the booking and one or two things like when Tav has given him the throw in and he’s overlapping Tav whereas we want him in the middle of the pitch. You could see in the first half in particular, Martin was going a little bit absent without leave in certain areas, but I thought he brushed up on that in the second half. Maybe undisciplined isn’t the right word, but he’s probably played in teams that have given him more chance to do that."
My worry is that Warnock is in danger of coaching out the innate creativity by trying to focus too much on his defensive shape throughout the whole pitch - it does make you wonder if scoring goals is something of a secondary concern and while defensive solidity is going to stop a team getting relegated, obtaining promotion is about winning games and seeing off weaker opposition rather than avoiding losing and hoping to get a goal or two.
I mentioned some stats before the game and they were reiterated yesterday as Boro managed only 40% possession against a struggling team who so far this season had managed the fewest shots on target in the Championship - I should note that Peterborough had zero shots on target yesterday.
The suspicion of many is that having been forced to play Payero yesterday as Jonny Howson filled in at the back, the return of 'Pelts' will see the Boro captain back in midfield and Payero subsequently back on the bench sitting next to Jones. Although, Hernandez may well continue at left wing-back after getting rave reviews by his manager for his work-rate and tackling...
"I thought he was super today. The work he put in, dear me. Some of the tackling he did in his own box because I had to ask him to play wing-back."
I wouldn't argue that he did well yesterday but the reason Boro brought him in was as an attacking winger - Jones looked far more dangerous in that role but looks set to lose out because his defensive game is viewed lesser by his manager.
So, while three points against Peterborough with a makeshift defence was welcome, it shouldn't be the judge of the team - nor should victory in midweek against another struggling team in Barnsley. If Boro are to move forward and be capable of a promotion challenge then we need to see the players who have ability going forward on the pitch and not sitting on the bench until it becomes time to gamble. The return of defenders from injury will appear to reduce the chances of Payero, Jones and Siliki from starting games and continue to prolong their period of getting up to speed in the second tier.
I have plenty of recollections of quite a few games after January last season being almost unwatchable - though as to which was the worsest is a tough call!
It was hard work finding an unofficial stream yesterday, I tried quite a few that appeared more dodgy than usual and didn't risk some others - even the one I ended up with needed to close lot more pop-ups and adverts than I'm used to. I missed the first 5 minutes of the second half after nearly 15 minutes of trying - I was just about to give up when the one I was trying to close various ads finally started up. Though in truth i could have probably waited until the 75th minute and I wouldn't have missed much!
@werdermouth I found a good stream on Soccer24hd.com...very good picture quality although I had to refresh it about 4 times.
So far I have only seen the Sky report, about two minutes long, and it makes Boro look good on the attack, not a true reflection of the game I know. I too noticed the comments that highlighted the so called 'errors' made by Payero, damnation by faint praise and a shortage of class on the manager's side for me. Give him break and play him for goodness sake. How do you get up to speed if you don't gather the experience? It's just another self-fulfilling prophesy by Warnock and as for the loanees Nathan Wood at Hearts hasn't had a game yet and Boro with a defensive crisis, apparently.
Never mind he'll be 'manning-up' and gathering experience, experience of sitting on the bench although at a different club. He goes on about the youth side of the club and blatantly ignores it unless his hand is truly forced, probably forced some where up between his shoulder blades.
Three points is three points but try and second guess the Barnsley result...
UTB,
John
PS Apparently Nathan Wood played yesterday as Hibs lost 3-0
Warnock actually has almost damned himself in his critical points of Payero with the line: "...he’s probably played in teams that have given him more chance to do that."
By which I think he means having more freedom to express himself - which it appears is only allowed in a Warnock team if you don't compromise the shape of his rigid man-marking system or by being unpredictable for the opposition.
NW mentioned NW (wood) in his press conference. He said that his agents had been pressuring the club and management for home to go out on loan and get experience. NW said all he got was experience of sitting on the bench! He also said so “that’s what agents know about football!”
There is of course the other side that the club have also been saving Wood’s salary while he is on loan and that helps to balance the budget.
Talking about budget I wonder what we are paying for Sporar? He tweeted a photograph of His dad and his dog being flown over to Teesside in a private jet! Words fail me….
OFB
Just watched the 10 minute extended highlight. It makes us look like a decent attacking side that kept knocking on the door before finally making the break through. There were a lot of through balls played to forwards running in between defenders that just didn't quite come off.
Of course I also listened to it live which was an exercise in turgid boredom. Still, it makes the point that there is potential in this group of players.
Looking back at the performances
Lumley - worst game for us for a while, could easily have cost us a goal. However I remain of the opinion that he's a good keeper. Because he's quite aggressive, if he's not quite on his game he risks screwing up majorly.
Bamba - immense. McNair and Howson competent but not particularly stretched.
Crooks - did ok in a holding role. He was always looking to move us forwards.
Tav and Hernandez aren't wingbacks but put plenty of energy into it. Tav improved massively when he got moved central.
Payero was a liability for the first 70 minutes or so but something clicked after that and he started to assert some control. Credit to Warnock for persisting because it would have been tempting to take him off after 60 minutes.
Watmore, Sporar, Ikpeazu seemed to be mostly tripping over each other. Unclear whether they were playing in a 3 or with Watmore in the 10 role. Watmore and Sporar showed glimpses. I feel a little sorry for Ikpeazu who seems to be a real trier but looked confused by his instructions.
Jones: injected real pace and energy. Possibly Posh were tiring but Jones gave us what we needed.
Coburn: has a knack of scoring. His interchange with Payero for the goal was lovely, as was his finish, but it was also no more than what you expect of decent players.
Just watched the 10 minute extended highlight. It makes us look like a decent attacking side that kept knocking on the door before finally making the break through. There were a lot of through balls played to forwards running in between defenders that just didn't quite come off.
I was away having my 34th anniversary marriage party as well as celebrating with my doughter, too. Two celebrations in one go. But missed the Boro match totally even it was live at ViaPlay over here.
I saw the result only this morning and watched the extended highlights twice. As Deriad said, we looked like a desent team in the highlights. We only should have scored about five times.
Of course I read RR's comments and it looks like it was not that good on whole 90 min.
But at least we won. That was important. Let's hope for a repeat result wise on Wednesday. We just need to grind a few results now. At least we have two times more defenders available on Wednesday when Pelts is back from suspension. Superb we had Paddy McNair to rely on on Saturday, again.
So all points appreciated this time when nobody knew the team until Friday afternoon - who were even available.
Up the Boro!
My few words on the game.
It was one of those days when even the reward of 3 points didn't make up for the disappointment
We have to do much better than that.
Although Hibs got beat yesterday Nathan Wood had a very good game.
Excelllent news. Let's hope NW(-G) keeps his place and plays several times until Xmas and forces NW (the manager 😇) to recall him during the transfer window in January. Up the Boro!
I know I'm going to sound bitter, but just turned on the newcastle match and the sky coverage is nauseating
Very interesting to read all your comments on the game. Most of you agree that we really weren’t very good. I read the EG and BBC reports and felt I’d been at a different game. The EG was quite positive, especially for the scores on the doors, which were higher in several cases than I would have given. The BBC had us dominating, yet Posh had 60% of the possession. True, they had no shots on goal, but they played the better football almost throughout. In contrast, my comment to my seat-neighbours at half-time was that I was finally convinced we won’t go up this season. Quite a lot of the folk around me up in the East stand were also disgruntled and chuntering darkly. We were awful first half. I thought our midfield was all over the place and that the forwards had little clue of what was expected of them.
It definitely improved second half. The midfield got more of a grip - especially Payero who was impressive- and we flung 3 or 4 balls across the Posh box that only required a touch from an in-rushing forward. But that apart, we created very few clear-cut chances. This was all very unconvincing. Why on earth wasn’t Isaiah Jones brought on earlier?
I was left with the impression that the penalty might have saved Warnock’s job. Who knows with Steve Gibson? At that stage, it looked the only way we would score. When I reflect now, though, I can’t decide whether NW makes his stupid comments and leaves out key players because he’s had guarantees of longevity from Sir Steve or because he knows the end is nigh and doesn’t care. Is he already ‘on the beach’ and thinking of his retirement?
Two more banana skins next week. A lowly Barnsley and Cardiff in free-fall. Can we build on our win versus Posh and get the bare minimum 4 points? I wouldn’t bet on it.
A game of two halves but a throwback to the mid-50s especially just after relegation and the start of the 1954/55 season. If anybody thought yesterday’s match was poor then it was six times better than what I witnessed at the beginning of that particular season. After what Cliff Mitchell described as a ‘creditable draw’ in the first match of the season at Plymouth, Boro then lost at home to Ipswich 0-1 and Stoke 1-2, away to Ipswich 1-6 and Rotherham 0-3, at home to Forest 1-4 and Luton 0-2, then 2-4 away to Forest and 0-1 at Hull. Now I didn’t see any of the four away matches, but did see the four home matches and Boro were dreadful. They had chances but hardly ever troubled the opposition goalkeepers.
Of course in those days there were no transfer windows but Boro were able to buy centre forward Charlie Wayman from Preston and inside forward Joe Scott from Luton, and suddenly Boro had three strikers with Wayman and Scott finishing the season with 16 goals each and Delapenha with 15. Yes Boro conceded 82 goals in their 42 league matches and despite losing 0-9 at Blackburn and 2-5 at Birmingham, 6-0 home wins over West Ham and 5-1 over Rotherham on a snow-covered pitch helped Boro finishing 12th after once reaching as high as 9th by April. The Boro faithful stayed with Boro right throughout the season with an average attendance of just 21,000 much like this season with a high of 45,271 for 1-0 home win over Leeds on Boxing Day.
Now the point of my reviewing that season is that it’s too early to write Boro off yet this season. I’m not suggesting that Boro will reach the playoffs, but maybe some of our older fans might be too critical. When I see photographs on the MFC website particularly of youngsters smiling and obviously enjoying the Riverside experience it takes me back to my childhood and adolescence when despite disappointing performances my pals and I still enjoyed following the Boro. There were times when Boro missed chance after chance and also conceded goals which should never have been conceded. But that was football in those days, never expecting much more than we got, whereas maybe those of our generation have been spoilt by the Robson and McClaren years whereas today’s children and youngsters are not as critical. There’s always another match around the corner to right the wrongs of the previous match, and perhaps we shouldn’t expect long unbeaten runs anymore.
A lot of blogs have suggested that Boro have some good players in their ranks but have yet to see them gel into a cohesive unit. That’s probably the fault of the manager and his coaching staff. Boro need a coach, a younger manager with fresh ideas instead of a septuagenarian who is still living in the past.
I saw the match on BEIN sport, although I did have to put up with it in Arabic??
As many have said, the first half was very poor with belief from the players at what the were supposed to be doing.
Mr Warnock then got his get out of jail card. Definitely a penalty against Lumley and I still think we were lucky to get ours. Two mistakes by the Referee that changed the outcome of the game.
Cannot add much else as it has all been said. Mr Warnock just looks to have lost the plot. At this rate he is also going to seriously undermine some players confidence.
@ken An excellent post, Ken. There is always hope and the season is young, too. Anyway, we should enjoy the season as we have some good players.
As I have kept repeating, it takes months for 12 new players to gell into a team. Never mind last Saturday, when the manager had one natural defender to choose from. And he did not know who were available until Friday morning.
So in a way it was a great result against the other Boro. Up the red Boro!