@lenmasterman Great post Len. Funny but unfortunately on the nail.
I try hard to be balanced. Things are rarely as good as they look and rarely as bad. I was against the appointment of Woodgate, not because of who he is but because I thought the task was too much for a 1st time manager.
For a brief time, after a bad start, it looked like he was learning on the job and starting to get it mastered. Turns out that was just good luck.
Fundamentally we have a mid-table squad which you would expect to end up somewhere from 8-18th in the table. Right now, you have to say that Woodgate has done almost as badly as it is possible to do with this squad. You could sack the manager and get the squad to pick their own team and go out to play by themselves and they would probably do no worse.
Woodgate has had three months to reboot but the longer he has with the team and the more players he has available, the worse he does. Yes there are difficulties but all managers have them; dealing with them is what they're paid for.
Would sacking Woodgate make a difference? Hard to see it making it worse though, as sacking AK showed, it is definitely possible. If Gibson bought in someone experienced and gave him a free hand it might just energise enough players to get us out of this hole. Unfortunately, Gibson's MO would be to give to Leo to give him a chance.
This managerial team has failed. The only question right now is how badly.
It is Monday morning and I still cannot believe how our defence unfolded on Saturday. Mind, I don't think Swanseas were that excellent, I think our defending was awful.
But now I see there have been other results like Boro's. For example up the road at Newcastle.
The Echo wrote: 'Three-nil - and even Joelinton scored' - a surreal afternoon at St James'
The problem at the Riverside was that we have seen this before. And too often.
So the result was not the worst but the performance. We just cannot defend like that. Where is the next clean sheet coming from? We can only dream that at Stoke.
Up the Boro!
I know that this is not gonna happen but I would bring Tony Pulis back on a temporary role. Like Robson had El Tel.
But I am afraid that Woodgate to too proud to do that. If I were the manager of Boro, I wouldn't mind some help. But the menthality is different in the UK.
Tony would know the club, most of the players and especially Jonathan. Tony would be a great help for the eight matches and he is still free.
Just for the record, I wouldn't want Pulis back long term 😜.
Up the Boro!
I was reflecting on the game or rather the odd team selection on Saturday and wondered if this was something of a Baldrickesque cunning plan from Woodgate in order to convince his out-of-contract players to sign that waiver. Perhaps he placed more emphasis on trying to ensure he retained a full squad for the rest of the season instead of actually winning the game by selecting his 'Best' team at his disposal.
What it probably did show was Woodgate's lack of experience by choosing to leave most of his youthful energetic players on the bench and instead opting for the ageing journeyman joggers, many of whom who appeared not overly keen to exert themselves as they gently eased back to playing football.
Sadly it meant Boro started simultaneously on both the back and wrong foot and it has already cranked up the pressure on the players to get a result in the upcoming games. Woodagte's team are now outside the relegation places only on goal difference means everyone on Teesside will be hoping Hull don't rediscover where they left their mojo or Barnsley suddenly don't go on one of their late rallies.
Woodgate said he didn't see that performance coming but even the empty terraces would have seen it given the starting XI - I suspect the club will be only be seeing a lot of wavers goodbye to season ticket renewals if relegation is sealed...
I try hard to be balanced. Things are rarely as good as they look and rarely as bad. I was against the appointment of Woodgate, not because of who he is but because I thought the task was too much for a 1st time manager.
For a brief time, after a bad start, it looked like he was learning on the job and starting to get it mastered. Turns out that was just good luck.
Fundamentally we have a mid-table squad which you would expect to end up somewhere from 8-18th in the table. Right now, you have to say that Woodgate has done almost as badly as it is possible to do with this squad. You could sack the manager and get the squad to pick their own team and go out to play by themselves and they would probably do no worse.
Woodgate has had three months to reboot but the longer he has with the team and the more players he has available, the worse he does. Yes there are difficulties but all managers have them; dealing with them is what they're paid for.
Would sacking Woodgate make a difference? Hard to see it making it worse though, as sacking AK showed, it is definitely possible. If Gibson bought in someone experienced and gave him a free hand it might just energise enough players to get us out of this hole. Unfortunately, Gibson's MO would be to give to Leo to give him a chance.
This managerial team has failed. The only question right now is how badly.
It's a good point this - I don't think Woodgate has a clue what his best team is (I certainly don't). I think we've all criticised the weak squad but we had a very expensive bench on Saturday. Unfortunately we seem to have a collection of either mediocre or unmotivated players (or both).
What it probably did show was Woodgate's lack of experience by choosing to leave most of his youthful energetic players on the bench and instead opting for the ageing journeyman joggers, many of whom who appeared not overly keen to exert themselves as they gently eased back to playing football.
I think that what is happening is that Woodgate has only recently moved from being a senior pro to being a manager. In every organisation, managers tend to rely on people from their core group.
In Woodgate's case, players like Gestede, Friend, Ayala, Howson and so on are senior pros he feels he can rely on. He talks the talk with youth but except in rare cases he doesn't actually trust them. Young players he sees the flaws, experienced senior pros he sees the strengths. I suspect also that from his days at Real Madrid he is better inclined to premier league loanees like Nmecha and even Roberts because he feels they're more technically accomplished. That said, he's clearly decided that Morrison isn't up to it.
I don't think he knows how to judge players accurately.
As a quick related point, I know Roberts is good but we literally haven't won a single game he's played in. Not his fault but important to remember that our purple patch was before the loan signings came in and while many senior pros were out of action. Like Garry Monk, the more resources Woodgate gets, the worse he does.
I think I'd agree with those recent posts from both BoroPhil and Deleriad, Woodgate hasn't as yet found his team and perhaps never will. The problem is that he's now starting from scratch again after the restart and it's therefore unlikely he will have worked out who to play, where to play them and in which formation before the season ends.
Furthermore, there is also very little time for the players to form understandings on the pitch with each other - plus there will be also be little time on the training pitch between games to work things out.
Perhaps he'd be better just picking players who are capable of maybe producing the odd bit of magic and have a bit of pace - such as Spence, Roberts, Coulson, Wing and Tavernier. At least these players have energy and will support whatever strikers are on the pitch and can also track back and not jog a few metres behind the opposition forwards.
@werdermouth I think you are right and I agree all 5 of those should be playing, almost regardless.
Pears
Howson Mokoudi Fry
Spence Coulson
Wing McNair
Tav Roberts
Fletcher
3-4-2-1
would be my team
Does anyone have any idea of the viewing figures from Saturdays game?
First off, I believe we are going down, all the signs are there , a squad who downed tools along time ago.
Woodgate as made mistakes no doubt, the biggest chopping and changing teams and formations too many times.
But I think he as spent more time putting out fires ,within, with players asking about contracts, others thinking they should be in the team etc ,time running out for those in the last six months of contracts.
All under the instructions of his boss ,to just steady things whilst we drain the swamp one might say.
Players know this so how do you motivate them.
Robbie Keane is another interesting situation, he as stated he wants to be a number one, is Woodgate allowing his input too much , too much can put doubts in your mind, you only need a number one ,who is absolutely sure of the direction he wants to go, and who is going with him
Its time I think to put players in who have the ability to create and make the opposition wonder, I'd play Morrison and Roberts together, Spence for his speed , young Walker ,nothing to lose, Brit back in, Coulson as potential but gets caught out too much, do we actually have a natural winger at club who can beat a man either side and cross the ball ,I don't care if he's fifteen .
Put George at LB and tell him just to stay home and defend ,basic stuff.
That's my take ,all the best, hoping we get lucky.
I thought a bit about the match bothwhile I was walking the two terriers. They're drilled, well as much as Jack Russell can be, and they respond to a command. Boro's coaches and managers don't, or can't, they breed confusion. With selections(?). tactics(?) and probably instructions or orders if you like.
I really think the team do not understand and the problem is the manager, or head coach. I fear he can't absorb, learn and retain lessons from previous experiences. Basing a selection on the Charlton game and seemingly forgetting his most successful period was when he had no choice to confuse his team selection is bewildering. Has he learnt anything? Strengths, weaknesses, no, not at all. Boro are doomed with with JW and RK and if they remain I fear we'll be in the same position this time next year.
It is exceedingly worrying. The emperor's suit of clothes turned horror story. Anybody want to make any predictions for the remaining games?
Stay safe, UTB.
John
My worry is that the players do indeed understand the Coaches and the Manager and know that they haven't a clue. In fact I'd say its starting to look pretty obvious to the extent that they are now merely going through the motions as anything else like our results under Woodgate is generally pointless.
@grovehillwallah According to the EG it appears 9,000 codes were redeemed, which I assume means logged in.
😎
If he’s lost the dressing room we’re doomed. You can be the best manager in the game but if the players won’t play for you what can you do? Few of the players will be as invested in the club as we are, lots of them will feel they have very little to play for and several of them will be off at the end of the season.
Have to say I’m not surprised at the low number of subscribers, can’t see it moving higher either.
Have to say I’m not surprised at the low number of subscribers, can’t see it moving higher either.
Does that include non season card holders plus its reasonable to assume that although 9,000 were logged on there could be more than two or three times actually watching the screens. I'm also wondering if it includes the Swansea viewers as well?
If he’s lost the dressing room we’re doomed. You can be the best manager in the game but if the players won’t play for you what can you do? Few of the players will be as invested in the club as we are, lots of them will feel they have very little to play for and several of them will be off at the end of the season.
I doubt SG will admit he has made an error and will see us go down with Woodgate.
If he is going to act now is the time to do it while someone may just be able to rescue something out of the last 8 games. If he sticks with Woodgate we will only stay up through sheer luck and not through his competence and ability which is a very dangerous gamble.
If we go down or indeed even if we somehow managed to survive I doubt many fans would have confidence or belief in Woodgate doing a decent job next season and another relegation scrap beckons (even a League One relegation scrap perish the thought). Now is the time to act but I won't be holding my breath.
on the streams, me and my 2 kids were watching in our house on 1 code
@redcarred. I don't believe it includes the Swansea viewers as they would log onto their website. I think there are about 16k season card holders but many of these will be from the same household so the number is not unsurprising. I think the EG article mentioned that 1k is the usual number that log in. 😎
I laughed at the very idea of our Manager having a grand plan, when he emerged as the choice of our chairman there was genuine fear in all supporters of the club.
This person has demonstrated no signs of any talent whatsoever in any of the many skills required to manage a large and well known Football club, at any point in his life.
These facts matter in this game, there are at least ten skills, plus a couple of things which would be known as arts in other walks of life.
From day one he has been in bluff mode, and has never stopped.
He has been protected by his boss.
now the bluffing has to stop, which of course means goodby for him, and his assistant.
It must be AK simply because the task is so difficult, he would get a lift simply by the absence of the current team, who quite obviously have lost the complete shebang, and I do mean players, coaches, backroom staff, old uncle tom Cobley and all. He will leave a devastated landscape as he walks out of what was a reasonable football club, well known in Upper reaches of English football, and now reduced to what is in effect a shambling wreck.
I see that even with seven substitutes allowed, Gibson can’t get on the Burnley bench.
GHW
Maybe after being sat in the Riverside stands (allegedly) on Saturday he now has to self isolate for 14 days?
It’s even worse, Burnley have only named 7 substitutes when 9 are allowed.
I’m pretty sure I just heard the commentator on NBCSN say two of Burnley’s subs are goalkeepers.
Can’t disagree with much of what has been posted on here since the Saturday debacle.
There was a brief period during the season when I thought that maybe, just maybe, JW might be on the right track. However, I was sadly mistaken and it is pretty clear that the rest of the season is going to be painful to say the least.
Unless JW can somehow wave a magic wand and all the other clubs implode, then I cannot see anything else other than relegation.
i am amazed that SG cannot see, or refuses to see, what the rest of us can and take action now to avoid relegation. Surely, even he can see that life in League 1 is not an option financially unless he intends to place the club into administration and seek a new buyer.
Actually, given the amount he is owed, that doesn’t make any sense and I am struggling to think what on earth his plan is.
To my mind, either JW has to go or if SG really believes he is indeed the future, then a DoF side kick should be brought in immediately.
Things must be bad as I wouldn’t object to Pulis as a very short term fix to keep us up.
UTB - the Boro’s staying up......................maybe!
Still cannot understand why even Houson and McNair were so terrible on Saturday. Like they were not match fit. The whole team looked like they were unfit. But Swansea had the same time to prepare.
So what went wrong? Still buzzled. Me. Up the Boro!
That is an appalling statistic. Perhaps we could do with him back at Boro?
UTB,
John
First post on the new site - fancy! Changed my user name from Smoggy in Exile to Smog over Zürich - not sure why, maybe it’s because I’ve finally faced the fact that I choose to live here!
anyway, terrible result, but did I expect different? Yer jokin aren ya!?
The only positive I can find after Saturday is that Hull are in a worse predicament than we are and are in free fall, which A.V’s piece in the EG makes clear. Whatever we do against Stoke - and I’m not expecting much - we absolutely must not lose against Hull. Indeed, if we lose at Stoke, I would say we MUST win at Hull. Two of our last 3 home games are against promotion-chasing sides, Bristol City and Cardiff. We have 5 away games to face, none of them easy. Ok, so there won’t be any crowds, which potentially might make a difference, for example in the Lions’ Den, but given our dreadful away record this season, I can’t see us picking up too many points. So the more I think about it, the more Hull becomes a must-win game. If, after that match, we are still needing to win a number of ‘must-win’ games, then we are in deepest doo-doo. The players had simply better show more fight and desire than they displayed against Swansea. Time to give youth its head for these remaining games, methinks. Let’s build the team around Fletcher, Coulson, Spence, Tav, Wing and Roberts.
I’ve been thinking about the 6 remaining out-of-contract players, and their futures.
Clayton:- Adam has been a great servant to the club, but he isn’t the player he was, no longer protects the defence as he once did, and no longer influences games. My verdict:- let him go.
Shotton:- Earlier in the season, I quite wanted to hang onto him, as he had some good games, defended stoutly often and showed versatility at right wing back. A hell of a long throw (not that Woodgate has ever exploited this weapon). Not so now. Makes too many mistakes and makes me nervous. Verdict - let him go.
Friend: - Like Clayton, he has been an outstanding servant and a brilliant ambassador. I love George to bits, love his Southgate-like, heart-on-the-sleeve leadership and his total commitment. But George’s legs have gone and he is sometimes a liability, as on Saturday. Verdict: - keep him on, if he’ll stay, but only on the coaching staff where I think he’d do a brilliant job, eg with the youngsters.
Howson- hasn’t quite fulfilled his potential with us, especially in midfield, but he’s still a very effective player and has proven his worth this season in a number of positions. Verdict: keep him. Big question: - will he stay? Can we afford him? (Or can we afford NOT to keep him?)
Johnson: - an enigma. Some good games earlier in the season, but has never really stamped his authority or his personality on the side, though admittedly he has mostly been used out of position as a wing-back. I do like him, though, as he can cross and shoot well, and I feel he has more to offer. Verdict: keep him, although he may always be just a bit-part squad player.
Gestede: - I’ve left the best till last. You all know how much I love him (he lied). Value for money -NIL. Ability - who knows, we’ve never seen any. Work rate and overall contribution to the side - pathetic. Verdict: - good riddance!
Your views, playmates?