Thank you for the information, MW. I double checked it and he has played a full one minute in the EPL this season. A very valuable minute for the Boro, I must admit.He played a game for Ipswich at the start of the season so can't play for anyone except Boro or Ipswich.
Up the Boro!
And final post from me this morning. Sorry for the flood of words.
Some of us might remember Gordon McQueen. He was one of my favourites in my teen years. I had English at school, but I consider that I learnt nearly as much by reading Shoot! every week as it came subscribed to our family for a few years. And Gordon had a blog in the football magazine during his playing days at Manchester United and Scotland.
Since and during his days as a coach and scout at Boro, Gordon lived in Hutton Rudby. I was lucky enough to meet Gordon in the local pub in this nice Yorkshire village some years back. Naturally I thanked him for his English lessons he did not know giving to me!
Unfortunately Gordon of died of pneumonia and vascular dementia in June 2023. There is story about his ilness that could be related to heading the ball at the Echo in here: https://www.thenorthernecho.co.uk/news/24856734.former-footballer-gordon-mcqueen-died-heading-ball/
A great gentleman I knew by reading Shoot!. I feel privileged to having met him quickly in the pub at Hutton Rudby. RIp.
Up the Boro!
I’d like to add my belated thanks, OFB, for a terrific opener which amply highlights our main issues, and especially leadership.
And thanks to Len for a very perspicacious take on the situation regarding our recruitment and disposal of players and the possible politics going on in the background. I must say that so many of the ‘articles’ the EG prints these days are completely anodyne or even inane. You may well be right, Len, that they are only now printing what the club releases to them and that the club is controlling the narrative closely.
Boro have 9 home games left and 11 away. Given that our home form this season is generally much worse than what we have achieved away, which for us is most unusual, that might generate a glimmer of optimism. Three of our home games are against our direct competitors - WBA, Sunland, Watford. Wins against those three will be crucial. Once we get key players back, especially Morris and Conway, performances might start to improve. On the other hand, as we so often say, this is Boro we’re talking about, so anything can happen, and probably will! One thing is certain: we simply must manage a greater degree of consistency and runs of unbeaten games if we are to make the playoffs.
Whilst it is only Internet talk and the same story from the Gazette and NE on Ryan Giles, it dose appear to have legs somewhat, by quoting MC being keen to reunite with him.
But in reality is he really going to improve our left hand side any. As somebody mentioned previously, we had Akpom and then added Archer that one season of form from him. Even then his form stalled towards the end.
If we have any money, then it should be spent more wisely elsewhere
If Boro are not careful they could end up in a situation where the transfers of Latte Lath and Doak becoming a waiting game as the Boro striker hopes for PL interest to be flushed out and Liverpool wait for the best offer for Doak.
Boro can't really sign anyone before they leave as they haven't either the space in the squad or the money if the deal doesn't go through. It could be all be last minute and that leaves the possibility of not getting adequate replacements.
You get the impression Boro are prepared to cash in on Latte Lath but where does the player prefer to go and would he see a move to the MLS as a good career move or would he think he'll get a better move in the summer.
I agree 100%. Giles is at least as suspect defensively as either of the two first team left-backs we already have. Left back in the (Hull) dressing room would be my preference for him.
@werdermouth Whilst I agree with the financial side of not being able to sign before we sell, I have a different opinion of the registered squad of 25.
Both Lenihan and Smith are in the current 25 squad. In my opinion, both could be excluded if we were tight on numbers come the end of the window.
You never know when your next injury may come along, and Boro have a continual supply into Rockcliiffe’s treatment room.
However, Lenihan and Smith, especially the latter, look as though their seasons are finished. In fact Boro’s could be over before they are fit and ready for first team action.
One has to assume, we can manage (at the moment) with Fry, VDB, Clarke and Edmundson for the CB positions. At RB, we have Dijksteel, VDB can play there and Ayling is just about ready according to Carrick. If he is to be believed.
I believe we just have to stick with Engel and Borge. If we have any money to spend, although it looks as though Edmundson may take a little, then midfield would be the position for me.
We could, as difficult as it maybe, make Barlaser available. I would even consider Hackney if the money was right. Although he is probably Carrick’s first pick and there do not appear to be any interested clubs lurking at a price Mr Gibson would sell at.
I guess, we really need to sell LL quickly, but that needs a realistic bidder to come along. I would be really surprised if Atlanta happened, certainly from LL’s point of view and not his agent.
I don't think Boro should be making any permanent signings in January unless it's a striker to replace Latte Lath - the squad is quite bloated with 25 players plus van den Berg and Hamilton plus Bangura who is not in the squad - then there's Josh and Silvera on loan too. That was 30 first-team players before Jones was sold and what about any youngsters coming through who need pitch time.
So only loans for me - a keeper and a striker - we have to manage with our 5 midfielders - Howson, Hackney, Barlaser and Morris plus Law McCabe - unless any of them are sold.
I'd like to see more of him after his FA Cup performance - he didn't look out of place and read the game well and has good ability on the ball. He's only one of three fit midfielders at the moment and also doesn't need to be registered as a squad player - I'd actually start him on Saturday and give him some pitch time as another injury or red card to Barlaser or Hackney would mean he'd be playing anyway.
Just wanted to say ,watched the U21 game, sorry to say it was beyond belief, how bad they were infact I'd go as far as to say it was actually disturbing at how inept they were , some of the old youth clubs were more organized, with better talent, the whole coaching staff should analyzed, unbelievable really
Just seen that Saturday's game is on live here in Oz on BeIn so probably no Boro live stream.
@mw-in-darwin Same here in Finland, ViaPlay will be showing the match live.
Up the Boro!
Thank you for your intro OFB. There is a lot of food for thought there. The team is playing below par. There are some persistent problems such as LB which have not been satisfactorily addressed.
Others such as GK are just unfortunate situations which appear to be temporary. The midfield pairing of Hackney and Morris was - prior to the last international break which did us no favours - performing well and should do again when Morris returns.
Our CB pairings are good and we have depth there.
Azaz, Conway, Gilbert, Forss all have quality. McGree also does when in form and a regular selection.
Doak and Lath would require replacing if they went. Easier said than done. Like others I find the sale of Jones at this particular point pretty strange; maybe purely down to financials.
I see Portsmouth went down 3-0. From a quick look at the highlights their LB has about as much positional sense as ours.
Thanks again!
P.S. "Sleepers" on Walter Presents very good.
@OFB - Thanks so much for your Match preview. Someone above thought it was your best ever and I don't want to disagree. I don't want to go back to previous Blog threads to be able to rank them but it was an excellent read.
I started this at 12noon but had to leave off to attend to other stuff so maybe there will have been more replies to this thread before I complete this post. Maybe other stuff will have now come in which makes this irrelevant but here goes. I'd like to say at this stage that I enjoyed reading the replies from various Blog members, particularly the replies from Martin, Philip, Pedro and Werder and, if I may single one out, Len's post of 2.25pm on 14th January.
Obviously I can understand that a business may wish to restrict the flow of information, feeling that confidentiality is important. Obviously it's not important that supporters should know details of players' contracts relating to salary and bonus payments (if any), or how much money BOro has available in the kitty to spend and we don't need to know the fine details of the medical treatments they might be receiving, especially of a "mental health kind" as people are often very sensitive about that being kept under wraps unless they think revealing information might explain events or even help others in the future. But I do think that Boro overdoes the secrecy.
The supporters are the lifeblood of the club. I accept that the club could hardly exist in its current form without the financial input of the Owner/Chairman. None of us here, or elsewhere, is as committed to the club as he is. Having said which, if there were no supporters, or if the crowd were to diminish to a "hard-core" of around 8,000, I don't suppose that Steve Gibson would consider it worthwhile to continue the flow of money into the club. The sort of players who'd then be available to the club would be different as their transfer fees and the salaries on offer would be considerably lower than is currently the case. A ranking of clubs by the wages bill might not be 100% accurate but money DOES count for a lot these days and that's why the top-paying clubs TEND to be higher in the league table than the lower-paying ones. If Boro were to be without Steve Gibson or some similarly-generous replacement for him, and if the crowds reduced to 8,000 over time, I think we could all acccept that League One would become very much more likely than the Premier League. And who is to say that the fall would end there?
Without a relatively rich owner (much more wealthy than you or I, but rather less wealthy than the billionaires supporting some clubs, much less having the support of cash-rich nations), and with diminishing crowds, a club like Boro could easily enter a slow spiral downwards. And the same could apply to similar clubs and "bigger clubs". Even the TV companies subsidising the Premier League would balk at games being shown around the world where the crowd of 8,000 leaves plenty of empty seats and very little "atmosphere" for live games. Try selling those games as part of your "Super Duper Sunday" without annoying/losing your subscribers!
To a club like Boro without the billionaire or State owners and, at present cut off from the Premier League largesse, the financial input of supporters becomes increasingly important. Obviously your Manchester Uniteds with their club Superstore, their large support in Asia and in fact world-wide, buying club merchandise online and subscribing to online coverage of games and inside information, even the matchday income from a crowd of 75,000 is only a part of the club's revenue stream. Sponsors and advertisers are willing to pay handsomely to join the bandwagon - though that may change if Manchester United's on-field form doesn't improve to the stage the club is again able to perform at the highest level.
Boro's matchday income is massively lower than the "big" Premier League clubs not only through having crowds half or less the number than many PL clubs, but because the corporate hospitality market isn't there in the same way for clubs like Boro. So it's down to Steve Gibson's generosity OR to how many match tickets are sold at what price, and how many replica kits and other merchandise can be sold. I doubt there's much of a market in India, China, Thailand or Vietnam for Boro merch. So, in all those circumstances where it is important to keep the (largely) local supporters onside, you'd have thought someone somewhere in the deep bowels of the club's senior management as well as the merchandising and ticket-selling departments, would be doing what they can to keep the punters happy and engaged.
You can't do that whilst cloaked in secrecy unless the club is carrying all before it on the field. If things are going REALLY well, no doubt you can get away with things. But when the punters are unhappy you can't. The club should look to its supporters as its lifeblood: the source of atmosphere and enthusiasm in the ground and the source of income from the sales of tickets and merchandise. If you are secretive and not successful, people start to moan. They become unhappy and less likely to spend. They find other things to do with their time and money. Things/activities/hobbies that they may come to value more than traipsing along to a football stadium in the dark, walking through a post-industrial wasteland (as it has been for approaching a third of a century now - Pyramids were built much quicker!) take over instead. We live in a conspiracy-theory age. People, in the absence of reliable information, make up their own theories and explanations - ones that do not paint the club in a favourable light.
The club should really look at its PR side. There's no point arguing that "people out there have got the wrong impression". It's like having a reception office in your business. There can only be the impression that people get when calling at/in Reception. If it's not welcoming, people won't hang around and are less than likely to call again. There's no point telling them that they have the wrong impression. Supporters are like customers. They want to feel welcomed, informed. Are you likely to buy a product if the people advertising its sale play a "straight bat" to legitimate questions, giving away as little as possible?
"When is that model going to become available?"
"Not ready yet but we hope very soon as its being put through its paces right now".
"Are we talking weeks or months?"
"A bit too soon to say, but we are hopeful."
"In time for the new reg number?"
"It depends on progress"
(And a few months later, still with no new model available, the chap will buy another vehicle).
Noboby is expecting the club's "secret recipe" to be divulged. Nobody is expecting a detailed medical presentation about the extent of an injury, details of the medical procedure to correct it and the number/types of exercises used by the physios to get the player back on the pitch. Nobody is asking the results of the bleep tests now compared to when the player was fully fit. It's quite enough to be told "For a tear of this severity, the surgeon who operated suggests it would normally take 6 weeks to recover, then the physio may need another 3 or 4 weeks to get the player back up to speed". Obviously you might expect, after the 6 weeks to hear whether things are going well and whether the physio has started. If he's not back after the 3-4 weeks it would be reasonable to expect an unpdate if there has been a setback, and a new time estimate. We don't need the fine detail ("He'll be fit at 4pm on Thursday") but a realistic estimate is reasonable to expect. At Middlesbrough it sometimes feels as though a player is injured then the injury takes on a life of its own and you've almost forgotten the player once played for the club before we see or hear from him again. Geological time has passed and new mountain ranges have risen up and been eroded down again.
Similarly I'd expect the club to be giving some indication as to what the club sees as being its short, medium and long-term aims (on the field and in the transfer market). I don't expect details of players, prices/fees and wages, but we should at least be told whether there is the likelihood key players may be sold or whether the club is hoping to bring new players in, what is the mood, is it upwards or downwards looking? Not told after people have been sent off for a medical exam at the club they may be moving to!
That's enough from me at the present. It's good to talk. That's what we are told, anyway.
I agree 100% and I posted something along the same lines some years ago when there was a deafening silence on news coming out of the club. You put it much more eloquently than I did but the net of it is the same which is the club’s PR is non-existent.
@forever-dormo Good post Dormo, definitely “from the heart”
I think all of the membership on this blog have a very large lump of common sense. Something that I see as essential, certainly in the times.
Boro have always, IMO, been somewhat secretive. They generally over the years been poor on the PR side of things. Time and again, they make the same mistakes, instead of taking stock, looking at what they are going to release to the Fanbase, and apply some common sense to any decision.
The current season ST release sale was a prime example, which ended with “egg on face”
Good post, though I'd only add Boro or indeed any other Championship club don't necessarily need a billionaire owner as there is a limit on what an owner can legally plough into a club - Craig John's wrote an article last year which put the figure at £20m a season, which he claimed Steve Gibson has spent in the last four seasons. A Championship club can only make a £41.5m loss over 3 seasons so it appears the chairman has given £60m during that period. Indeed, it is stated in the article that Boro have posted losses of £90m since 2020, which have been mainly offset by Steve Gibson - that's quite high if you also consider the sales of Akpom, Rogers, Spence etc.
Of course in the end clubs only have spending power because of their revenue streams and Boro are unlikely to become a national brand let alone a global one. Still, most of any PL windfall will be eaten up by the increase costs of wages and transfer fees so real spending power is always going to be out of reach for clubs like Boro - hence clubs who have spent a significant amount of time in the second tier will struggle in the PL without unearthing cheap gems and a coach who can punch above their weight.
If you survive 3 years in the PL then you will have most likely spent around £500m with PL prize money, revenue and up to £105m debt. Crazy really!
@werdermouth It’s strange to me, that a successful business owner like SG, continues to plough his own cash into a venture that loses money year on year.
Maybe it’s just that he has so much income and reserves, that the amounts he props the club up with annually are like one of us giving a few hundred pounds to charity every year. I certainly don’t expect anything back from donations I give to my favourite causes (apart from a feeling of satisfaction that I’m giving something back), so perhaps it’s all relative.
It’s interesting (or frightening) to think where the club would be if he hadn’t committed the amount he has over the years. Surely it can’t go on forever - he takes quite a bit of stick from fans on occasions, many of whom seem oblivious to the debt we owe him.
@werdermouth - Yes, I think it's an "open secret" that the economics of football at the higher levels, and in the Premier League in particular, are ridiculous. And they cause some clubs at lower levels but with dreams of joining the Big Boys, to overspend and over-commit in the hopes those dreams will come true.
But it IS possible gradually to claw a club's way to Premier League security once promotion is achieved, if it is done sensibly. There are several clubs who have been competing with Boro for promotion out of the Championship in recent years, but who are now established Premier League clubs and apparently "safe" from relegation fears. I offer you Brighton, Brentford, Fulham, Villa and Bournemouth who were all consecutively 11th to 7th in the league table on Tuesday night this week, so upper mid-table (I type this on Thursday evening as Brighton plays Ipswich away). All five of those teams currently lie higher in the table than Everton, Man U, Tottenham and West Ham - and we are in mid-January not the first few weeks of the season! And that is to say nothing of current top-three club, Nottingham Forest!
So it CAN be done. But our repeated failure to achieve promotion has not been made any easier to bear by Middlesbrough's apparent secrecy and lack of open-ness towards its supporters!
(Currently 0-0 at Portman Road after 28 minutes).
@forever-dormo 0-1 to Southampton at Old Traffford (HT). We must get promoted this year, if Utd or Everton would end up in the Championship next season.
Excellent post the one before the above. Up the Boro.
@jarkko - Very kind of you, Jarkko. I am toggling between Ipswich v Brighton and Man U v Southampton. Both are 1-1 and I have missed BOTH goals by watching the other game when the goals came!
@OFB on the Transfers thread - $20M offer for Latte Lath verbally accepted by MFC with only personal terms to be agreed.
It will need some good PR to sell that to Boro fans. But MAYBE Boro has identified a gem of a player for £16M - a young Thierry Henry or the like!
@forever-dormo I obviously misread the Atlanta offer. I thought it was 20 million Pounds?
If that is the case, well I am disappointed. I have accepted LL leaving, but for a good fee. Maybe I am wrong. Maybe 16 million, if it does not include add ons is realistic and just too much to turn down, given the financial position MFC are in.
Glad that our owner is not like this.
Unfortunately I can't speak from experience but I expect once you have a certain amount of personal wealth that essentially pays for everything you actually need for you and your family to be set up for a very comfortable life, then money or wealth becomes little more than a tool to further your interests.
With Steve Gibson being synonymous with Middlesbrough football club and indeed one of the most influential people on Teesside, then he is obviously personally invested in the club and making it a success. It must give him great satisfaction to sit in the Directors box at the Riverside and know that it's because of his patronage that 25,000 people or more have turned up to watch a team compete for the prize of promotion and hopefully enjoy their weekend.
That has been his calling since he took over the club as a young man so it must mean a lot to him emotionally as well as financially. He's not a owner parachuted into the area to see his ego massaged and enjoy the ride - it's his club he supported as a boy and he is now the man driving the ambition of everyone on Teesside and the rest of us who still follow the club.
Perhaps it's what actually drives him with his commercial business in that he wants to be able to finance Middlesbrough Football Club - after all he's probably already injected hundreds of millions into the club over the years so it's not a sideline!
Yes thankfully it is possible to be another Brighton, Bournemouth or Brentford - though for each one of those there's probably at least another 5 who have tried and failed.
I suppose it's a bit like the laws of physics in that the natural state of those clubs and Boro is probably not to be a PL club - it requires everything to work out just right and a fair slice of luck to keep clubs of that size in the top tier for any amount of time.
Unlike teams such as Liverpool, Arsenal, Chelsea, Man City, Spurs and Man Utd where it's long been their natural state to be a top tier club and it requires a lot of bad decisions and bad luck for them to be relegated - and that would most likely be a blip.
I think for clubs looking at promotion then you probably really need to go up looking already like a good side who can then upgrade enough to remain at least one season.
The other alternative is to go up but perhaps expect to come straight back down, regroup and get that financial injection that essentially games the promotion race in your favour for next time so you go up stronger than before.
I suspect Boro are currently in the latter category at the moment and are a bit like Southampton - easy on the eye but lacking the solid base needed to survive against better opposition.
Half a million pounds per week? It’s madness. https://www.theguardian.com/football/2025/jan/17/erling-haaland-signs-new-manchester-city-contract-to-2034?CMP=Share_iOSApp_Other
I've seen an Italian source first say it was a €20m offer, a UK one claim £20m and now a US one report it as $20m - not sure these rumours have currency...