Scott Wilson has written a good piece in the Northern Echo on the issue of fans returning to football grounds this morning...
The return of fans to football grounds raises some awkward issues
I still maintain that a large amount of fans go to games out of sheer habit, something that has been indoctrinated in them since an early age.
Why else would people pay out good many when more often than not, you get a sub standard product. The idea that fans are champing at the bit to return to stadiums is a fallacy put forward by those who run football.
I’m sure there are many studies out there on the psyche of the football fan, and what drives them to accept the very few highs but multitudinous lows. I haven’t spoken to any one fan who can’t wait to get back to watching in the flesh.
It looks as if the 1000 fan experiment went off pretty well and, if so, one could see it being increased to cope with a similar level of fans in all four stands and maybe even a few more. However, one thing that is very unlikely is an agreement to allow in any away fans.
Does anyone have any thoughts as to the impact of only home fans being allowed to watch football. No away trips for supporters and no songs. Will it change anything?
utb
It looks as if the 1000 fan experiment went off pretty well and, if so, one could see it being increased to cope with a similar level of fans in all four stands and maybe even a few more. However, one thing that is very unlikely is an agreement to allow in any away fans.
Does anyone have any thoughts as to the impact of only home fans being allowed to watch football. No away trips for supporters and no songs. Will it change anything?
utb
Looks like its kiboshed before it even got started!
@redcarred. Not unsurprising given what is happening in the wider world. I think Werder mentioned that in Germany they did not expect fans to be allowed back until 2021 at the earliest.
It looks as if a too fast unlock, coupled with a track and trace system not yet fit for purpose and a portion of the population not adhering to the rules is costing everyone dearly. 😎
Funnily enough just to emphasize the difference, German fans were allowed a limited return to stadiums at the weekend with between 5-10,000 per ground - just home fans suitable distanced in their bubbles and no alcohol to avoid queues at the bars.
See BBC article: Bundesliga: Fans return to stadiums
Although, it's no surprise to see a return in the UK being postponed given that the government is planning new restrictions in the coming weeks and a possible national lockdown - could prove fatal (in the business sense) for many clubs outside the top two divisions and in reality it's hard to see how the seasons in League One and Two can continue until the end without some kind of cash injection.
I should add that in Germany they've been testing the impact of people attending these kind of public events for the last two months using the tracking and tracing app on people's smartphones to see if these events had any impact on passing the virus. So far it seems to be safe using the protocols and people have kept to the rules of maintaining distance and wearing masks - I think it may even be a prerequisite for attending such events to have the smartphone app.
We've got the benefit of the track and trace system having been fully operational now for over three months and an efficient testing program that can quickly isolate cases too. OK, we still have Covid cases in Germany but they are in most parts at a pretty low level with just a few hot spots in the West and Bavaria - there's hardly any where we live and the national death rate is currently just 1 person per million people.
Never mind fans being in attendance, there may soon be too much disruption to matches to threaten the viability of completing the season ....
To be honest, that was one of my concerns before forking out for Matchday-live season pass as these situations can suddenly be forced in a matter or weeks or even days - plus we already knew our manager was affected and the uk numbers were doubling on a weekly basis.
Remember the last season break? It wasn't the government who decided to stop football but the clubs and league saw what was happening and had no choice. OK, we're playing behind closed doors now but you do wonder what would happen if cases of footballers and coaches becomes more than the odd case. How safe would players feel for themselves or indeed their families?
We know that PL clubs can survive with the TV money but EFL clubs will continue to struggle and some perhaps going under. It’s about time the EFL clubs collectively said to their PL counterparts, yes we’ll take your promising youngsters and give them much needed competitive match practice, but we’ll no longer pay you ( via their wages) in loan deals. If you want to continue this way of keeping your grip on all the talent, then you foot the bill, or even better, you pay us for doing you a service.
Does anyone know if season card holders will be allowed to stream away matches as part of our deal, as we were for the last games of last season? I’ve renewed my card via the pledge, but it now seems as if it will be some considerable time before we actually get back into grounds. I presume Boro will continue to let us watch home games without having to subscribe, but I imagine they’d need to work out some complicated deal with the other clubs and the EFL if they give us the away games as well. That would probably be costly, too, and additional costs are something all clubs could do without right now.
So I’m guessing I’ll need to pay £10 for each away match I choose to watch? Assuming that to be the case, do you know if that is going to be possible?
@grovehillwallah: EPL clubs, don't need fans paying to watch games. Even Arsenal, Manchester United, and clubs with that sort of massive matchday attendance, make most of their money from a combination of TV money, commercial sponsorship deals and selling millions of shirts and other merchandise all over the world. For EPL clubs the ticket sales are mere icing on the cake. As has been said many times, the normal economic rules seem not to apply to the tops clubs in Europe and the EPL.
Clubs like Boro do need to sell tickets but still look to a wealthy and loyal owner to help balance the books. Clubs lower down the league pyramid see precious little filter-down from their wealthy top League counterparts. For lower league clubs, the gates remaining shut will put the continued existence of many of them in serious peril.
The finances of football were a joke before all this, of course. But it will not be the cause of laughter to their supporters if clubs like Crewe Alexandra, Exeter City, Northampton Town and Shrewsbury etc disappear.
And as if to answer the question posed at the head of this Thread, the latest HMG pronouncements suggest that precious few of us will get to see football "in the flesh" for some time to come. It may have seemed a possibility, but now seems highly improbable, that thousands of people will be allowed to congregate to watch football if they have to travel there through towns and cities which are facing lockdown, where people will be encouraged to work from home where possible, and where a large percentage of the population may well be worried about their financial and job security. Against that, watching football may not seem so important even if it were allowed. And that is to put to one side personal health risks, or perception of those risks.
I think the chances of many of us seeing league football in the flesh any time soon have considerably diminished since I tryped the first post to this Thread. I'm not happy about that, it gives me no joy, but it is a realistic view.
@clive-hurren: I was wondering about that, earlier this evening.
I renewed my season card when it was announced that ticket sales were open again, and before the club decided to call a halt because the tickets sold were apparently approaching the 10,000 or so thought likely to be the limit of expected allowed attendances. So I think I HAVE a season ticket and the money has gone out of the bank account. Are there some who, once it was announced the club will not sell any more tickets for the time being, were able to pledge or promise to buy a ticket whenever those tickets were allowed for sale again?
@foreverdormo
Ermm, isn’t that what I said....
Does anyone know if season card holders will be allowed to stream away matches as part of our deal, as we were for the last games of last season? I’ve renewed my card via the pledge, but it now seems as if it will be some considerable time before we actually get back into grounds. I presume Boro will continue to let us watch home games without having to subscribe, but I imagine they’d need to work out some complicated deal with the other clubs and the EFL if they give us the away games as well. That would probably be costly, too, and additional costs are something all clubs could do without right now.
So I’m guessing I’ll need to pay £10 for each away match I choose to watch? Assuming that to be the case, do you know if that is going to be possible?
Clive, according to the streaming information page you will also be able to watch all midweek away games too (which amounts to 7 games this season)
What hasn’t been taken into consideration during the lockdown is the fact that people living alone have become less active, especially the disabled like myself. I live opposite two households who have disabled widows living alone and there only contact face to face with the outside world is with the same cleaner that I use or total distancing from their loved ones on their doorstep or by telephone. They both do their shopping via delivery service from Tesco. I have only telephone contact with my friends and family and as I’m able to drive just locally to the supermarket and doctor’s’ surgery I do at least get around a bit. My cleaner tells me that there has been a deterioration in their walking and I myself have found the same. We were told to keep safe by staying indoors until the 1st August but that meant lack of exercise and for myself having twice fallen outside in my garden not only have I lost confidence as I tend to shuffle around instead of working my legs properly. None of us wants to catch coronavirus because it will probably be fatal, but all three of us have become even more disabled as there is limited space in our gardens to walk around. Even walking around the block has become tiring as there’s no place to rest or sit down. I’m not blaming anybody, but the choice was to stay indoors and keep safe, but how are the disabled like myself able to function? I find that I become exhausted now after the simplest things like having a shower or doing the ironing. Can I or my neighbours survive another 6 months of self isolation? We may survive coronavirus but physically and mentally it will be a strain with little quality of life. I can’t speak for my two neighbours but every day becomes the same boring routine for me. If it wasn’t for the use of the internet and sometimes contributing to diasboro.club I’d go insane. Having completed my historical review of both Boro and Cas I needed something else to write about, so that’s one reason that I started writing about the history of classical music and composers. It doesn’t matter one iota whether people read my input, but it gives me something to occupy my time as endless television viewing sends me asleep. I’m not asking for sympathy but just stating what it’s like living alone when physically disabled and I now fear becoming mentally disabled also if this pandemic lasts another 6 months. I’m not suicidal as although my PSA reading is now on the increase again I’m not yet in any pain just occasional discomfort. I realise that my time on Earth is limited and at the moment I’ve put it to the back of my mind, but lethargy is slowly turning to depression as I sometimes feel like staying in bed all day, so really I’m not too bothered about Boro or Cas, it is what it is, and I never thought that I would ever feel that way.
Yes, I agree that physical and mental well-being for many in similar situations to yourself who both live alone and are often reliant on helpers is the big downside to all these restrictions. I saw a piece about people living in care homes who once again can't have visitors and it's greatly affecting their conditions and causing depression in many that they must once again waiting for the next relaxation.
I guess there are no easy solutions to keep a large portion of this section of the population motivated and active - I can only hope you and others find inspiration from somewhere and it would be good if there was some kind of zoom group for those who wish to have a chat and get input other than being stuck with the TV - which is not great at the best of times!
I can also sympathise with struggling physically to do the basic day to day tasks at the moment as I foolishly did my lower back on Sunday lifting one of my paving stones without warming up - it's hard work in the morning just to get out of bed and wash my hair as it generally takes few hours for the pain to ease off enough to move around without discomfort - thankfully, it hopefully won't last more than a week or so from previous experience but these kind of things are really tiring.
So hope you keep your spirits up Ken and I'll check out your classical music posts later - though I'm more of a modern rock, jazz or blues man 🙂
Very sorry to read of your woes. At least we have Diasboro to check in on.
I wonder if you’ve looked online for simple exercises that you can do at home? I’ve taken to doing regular home workouts more or less every morning just to give me a focus and healthy routine. A good way to start the day - it’s amazing how a bit of exercise can give you more energy, rather than deplete your reserves.
I’m not sure if you have a smart phone but if you do, I would also recommend the world of podcasts if you don’t already listen to them or know of them. There really is something for everyone and they provide an almost on-demand service for whatever interests you - like your favourite radio show but you can listen (or even relisten) whenever suits you. A perfect accompaniment to some light indoor exercise.
Dormo - thank you for your response. I too think I have a season card, and Boro have definitely taken the money from my account. I suppose the question is: what happens now? When I paid for it a couple of weeks back, they gave me a discount for the 4 home games we were all forced to miss at the end of the season. So what happens now, if we have to miss, say, another 10, or even more? Will they refund season cards fully or partially? Will they allow another discount next time around for matches missed? Either way, it’s all going to put the club in a very difficult financial position. I would have been quite happy this season not to have had the discount, as I think we all might need to make sacrifices in the long run to keep the club solvent, but it’s a different matter when we’ve paid upwards of £300 up front.
Werder - thanks for your response, too. I’d missed the bit about getting the free stream for midweek away games. Hope your back is soon better.
Ken - really sorry to hear about your lethargy. Hang on in there. My wife is lucky, because she has ME to keep her company (!!!), but she’s getting quite depressed because she can’t see her family, or go to the shops, the cinema or theatre. Fortunately, we are able to get out for regular walks, which really help with physical and mental wellbeing. I appreciate you can’t do that. If it would help, I’d be happy to give you a ring occasionally for a long-distance chat. If you wish, let werdermouth have your phone number, and I’ll do the same. Werder - can you devise some way for us to share our numbers if Ken is happy to do so?
probably the best way is to exchange email addresses - if you send me a message using the contact form (see main diasboro menu 'CONTACT') to say you're happy to exchange email addresses then I can forward them on so you can then make arrangements between you.
Just try and keep your chin up Ken, easier said than done however. I try and think that there is always someone far worse off than myself. Unfortunately its going to get tougher for those poor worse off unfortunates. I read that the temporary Covid postponement of evictions elapsed last week and with that there will no doubt be many without even a roof over their heads shortly.
2020 has and is affecting a lot of people in different ways and as the year has progressed mental as well as physical fitness is getting tougher for a lot of the population, each with their own personal battles. I'm not sure that the PM's proclamation of "six months" was helpful last night. Like donkeys we need a carrot of some sort dangled to keep up our motivation having just gone through seven months of it already. The PM's tone and leadership credentials didn't do anyone any favours last night full stop. That it most likely was neither his script or decisions but one prepared by someone already pretty much derided for flouting lockdown in a shameful manner didn't help.
The elderly (which includes a lot of us on here) are having a tough time of being stuck indoors with little to no social interaction and like as not getting on the nerves of the nearest and dearest with those of us that share households. At the opposite end of the scale the young were struggling with the same isolation fever and once the pubs were opened and then schools for those younger still it was pretty much inevitable that the "R" rate wasn't going to improve. It doesn't take a genius to work out that once Universities are fully back what is going to happen.
I watched aghast last night as a "leader" was being seen to make decisions for the sake of it whilst not actually making any effective ones. That it will take another three or four wasted weeks before the enormity of the futility of him shutting pubs at 10.00 pm actually hits home is painful in the extreme. I know of a few local Redcar hostelries planning late night/early morning sessions before the Thursday deadline which compliments our politicians stupidity and incompetence.
Like the common cold there may never be a cure or vaccine in our lifetime which doesn't seem to feature at all in any Government's "planning" anywhere in the world. I can't see League One or Two and below completing their seasons for financial reasons and at the moment I'm not sure if the Championship is any more viable. Without fans the Premiership and European competitions just seem a futile and pointless exercise other than providing armchair fans with some cold comfort. Apart from Boro I haven't watched any football as it may as well be Subbuteo to me such is the lack of reality, substance and believability to it much like our politicians. On a positive I suppose it does save on TV Sports subscriptions and arguments with Mrs Red over "not another Football match"!
I note that you hinted at Boris Johnson and ‘leader’ being one and the same person. You cannot be serious, as McEnroe once shouted!
I note that you hinted at Boris Johnson and ‘leader’ being one and the same person. You cannot be serious, as McEnroe once shouted!
I confess to having voted for him which makes it doubly difficult to swallow!
@grovehillwallah errm! Yes, you are right....!
Looks like we dodged a bullet against Chelsea.....
- @redcarred In reality, it could be worse. The “Leader” could have been Mr Corbyn. Now that is something to ponder on.