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Marc Bola charged b...
 

Marc Bola charged by FA

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jarkko
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At least Bola's action some nine years ago got a lot of attention now. Was that the target by the FA?

And please reming what sanctions the FA and UEFA put on the braakway clubs that wanted to create a new league of their own recently? Or was they punished at all? Or are the FA chasing kids instead gansters ...

Just saying, like. Up the Boro! 


Powmill-Naemore
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I suppose pulling rabbits like this out of a 10 year old hat makes it far easier to make you think you appear to the world to be serious in your vocal stance about eliminating racism, homophobia and misogynistic behaviour from the game, rather than actually doing something genuinely effective now.

This post was modified 2 months ago by Powmill-Naemore

werdermouth
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@redcarred

Any law that is subjective seems to be open to being misused and the CPS's claim that the definition of 'hostility' included showing unfriendliness or even dislike should worry people. Surely it has to be a clear case of intimidation or threat to warrant involving the police otherwise they could prosecute almost anyone.

I'm just grateful social media didn't exist when I was in my early teens as from what I can recall of the banter (as it's now called) questioning someone's sexuality was a regular daily occurrence in my school, where being called gay was the stock insult among boys. Of course we were all full of hormones and insecure about our masculinity at that age and unsurprisingly few of us had a girlfriend so it always got a reaction. Once we had matured a few years later, that type of jibe would be regarded as quite lame even if said in jest so I think to pull a 14-year old up on that charge is simply over-zealous to put it mildly.

Of course, there is still homophobic abuse around but I think it should be obvious to anyone (even the FA) when it is a serious hate crime rather than the clumsy fooling around of insecure teenage boys.


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Martin Bellamy
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@werdermouth I wonder when the “gay” insult amongst teenagers started. I don’t recall anyone using it during my time at school in the late 60s/early 70s, but I’ve had to explain why it’s wrong to my own kids and step kids who are children of the 80s & 90s. Is it still being used today? 


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Powmill-Naemore
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@martin-bellamy

I don't think the word gay started to become commonly associated with its topical meaning until the late 60s or even the early 70s in the US. So it is perhaps unlikely that particular word was used then in school playgrounds in Middlesbrough  other than in it's more classical sense associated with frivolity.

That said, there were other equivalent terms and words used perjoratively in the playground in the 60s and 70s and I did see and at times be on the receiving end of those.

OED has references to the the topical sense of the word being used in writing from 1971.

 


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Powmill-Naemore
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@martin-bellamy

I've been reflecting on this a little more.

I believe the word Gay was self-adopted and euphemistically by the US (and then wider) Gay community as it was a novel use of the word which had none of the pejorative or legal connotations of other words and terms used to describe people. The problem with language is though, as euphemisms evolve into common vernacular then the same pejorative associations that the euphemism was trying to avoid will always associate with the "new" word as well.

 

One of the least edifying aspects of humanity is its never-ending capacity to target other communities and even people within the community that in one way or another do not conform, or exhibit differences. Arguably that is also one of its strengths that to be successful as a social species, we need to have societal norms and so collectively we all tend to find ways in which to be with the same kind of person (to be in the same tribe if you like). Any behaviour or trait that is not the norm is often enough perceived as a threat: physical; emotional economical; territorial; and so on ad nauseum. I think we all have an in-born fear of difference. Some people are capable of lifting themselves above that fear more easily than other of us. What a society accepts as normal does evolve and change over time, but extremely slowly.

I fear that the issue of targeting minorities using whichever tools are open to use is one that will never ever entirely go away. All we can do is to educate our children (as you have tried to do) and anyone with an ear and a heart that will listen, keeping alert  to and honest about our own failings, and being visibly supportive wherever we see injustice or inappropriate behaviour. 

 

As for pulling out comments made in the past by immature people still finding their way in the world and finding the tribe that they want to belong to; and then punishing them as adults for that. Well, that is quite simply ridiculous and speaks more to the insecurity of the people making the charge than anything else. 


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werdermouth
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@martin-bellamy

I was 14 in the late seventies so no doubt it's use and other alternative words (there were many) and phrases probably stemmed from 1970s TV where sitcoms were so very un-PC back then with programmes like 'It aint half hot mum', 'love thy neighbour', 'Steptoe and son' or 'Alf Garnett' - let alone the stand up comics around then on the TV like Jim Davidson and the like. It probably wasn't until the rise of alternative comedy in the early eighties that shows like 'The Young Ones' turned the calling of someone being gay as the joke being on the one doing the insult. Though this kind of angle got somewhat blurry with programmes like 'Little Britain' where it wasn't clear who was making the joke at who's expense.

I think the actual word 'gay' took on a new meaning in recent times - it was used to describe something that was stupid rather than its previous homosexual meaning - I recall my nephews would use it in its stupid context quite often.


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Ken Smith
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During my National Service years the word ‘queer’ was used about anyone that had what was considered unnatural tendencies. ‘Gay’ meant something entirely different like carefree or frivolous, even happy as in ‘gay abandon’.


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Ken Smith
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Posted by: @ken

During my National Service years the word ‘queer’ was used about anyone that had what was considered unnatural sexual tendencies. ‘Gay’ meant something entirely different like carefree or frivolous, even happy as in ‘gay abandon’. Scots were often called Jock, Irishmen called Paddy, and my best pal from Wrexham was called Taffy  -  never did find out what his real name was. The English were Poms to the Aussies, Limeys to the Yanks at USAF Burtonwood. and Sassenachs by the Scots. The Black and White Minstrel Show was a very popular TV show, and most little girls loved their gollywogs as a ‘wog’ was an abbreviation for a Western Oriental Gentleman. 

More lightheartedly any one with the surname Rhodes or Miller were called Dusty, and I myself was called Smudger or sometimes Blackey despite always having fair hair. Germans were Krauts, Japanese were Nips, and Italians were Dagos although these were considered derogatory, but it was only a few years after the Second World War and they had been the enemy for 6 years. I wouldn’t dream of calling them that today. Nevertheless for people of my age it’s sometimes difficult to determine what was offensive or what was just banter.

 

This post was modified 2 months ago 2 times by Ken Smith

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Andy R
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@ken

In case you're interested, Smudger and Dusty are ok but I'd steer well clear of the rest, Ken!


Ken Smith
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Posted by: @andy-r

@ken

In case you're interested, Smudger and Dusty are ok but I'd steer well clear of the rest, Ken!

Strange though that Taffy Roberts introduced himself as Taffy when we first met and that my wife’s cousin’s husband from Glasgow was always called Jock even by his wife. It sure seemed a different world in those days.

This post was modified 2 months ago 3 times by Ken Smith

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Powmill-Naemore
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Perhaps Bola should plead in defence that he was, of course, just a juvenile at the time he foolishly posted that tweet, but fortunately for him he has had one of the most culturally inclusive educations of life as afforded to him after entering into the FA family as a junior in the famous Arsenal Academy and subsequently in the lesser and nether reaches of England at Notts County, Bristol Rovers, Blackpool and Middlesbrough all of which where, thanks to the FA's guidance and uncompromising stance on all matters discriminatory he has grown into a wholesome and fully rounded individual who revels in the unbounded diversity of humankind; whose gratitude to the righteous and irreproachable good burghers of our beloved game has no limit and whose virtues he humbly extolls on all teenage boys regardless their impoverished backgrounds..... 

This post was modified 2 months ago 2 times by Powmill-Naemore

Powmill-Naemore
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Posted by: @andy-r

@ken

In case you're interested, Smudger and Dusty are ok but I'd steer well clear of the rest, Ken!

Spoken like true Smoggy 😉


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Martin Bellamy
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@ken “Unnatural tendencies”? But who decides what’s a natural tendency? 


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Redcar Red
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Posted by: @martin-bellamy

@ken “Unnatural tendencies”? But who decides what’s a natural tendency? 

As Boro supporters we are probably the last bunch to ask that one!


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Powmill-Naemore
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Posted by: @redcarred
Posted by: @martin-bellamy

@ken “Unnatural tendencies”? But who decides what’s a natural tendency? 

As Boro supporters we are probably the last bunch to ask that one!

🤣


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Martin Bellamy
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Posted by: @ken
Posted by: @ken

The Black and White Minstrel Show was a very popular TV show, and most little girls loved their gollywogs as a ‘wog’ was an abbreviation for a Western Oriental Gentleman. 

I’m pretty sure this is a folksy etymological myth. https://en.m.wiktionary.org/wiki/wog

 


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werdermouth
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I guess for many, something that causes offence while not intending to cause offence is often a retrospective realisation that only becomes apparent when viewed in the context of time passing. The Black and White Minstrel Show being a prime example of a popular show that was defended by the BBC and shown until the late 1970s - the excuse was it was simply a tradition of blackface that had been a theatrical art form for decades but if you look at it now your jaw drops at how it was accepted as OK.

To give you an idea of how acceptable the programme was, even Lenny Henry performed on it as his manager thought it would be a good way to learn his trade as a comedian on a big show - something he apparently took years to come to terms with the embarrassment as he recalled his parents came to watch him once but were the only black people in the audience.

Sometime progress is simply acknowledgement that values have moved on and most people will shift with the times but usually some won't and remain with their ignorant view of the world, which is usual based on fear of what they don't know or insecurity that often manifests as perceived misplaced superiority.


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Ken Smith
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The question should be ‘who decides what is an unnatural sexual tendency?’ And my answer would be society at the time. Terrence Rattigan the playwright and one of my favourite authors was a serving RAF officer and his ‘dark’ secret had to be kept secret at the time. I have all the works of Oscar Wiide in my possession as he was my hero for his wit and genius, and there are possibly as many amusing quotes from his lips as there were from Winston Churchill during the Second World War. Daphne du Maurier was another of my favourite authors, and like several classical composers had something extra in their writings and compositions than the average person. However there are several famous people who wished they weren’t homosexuals and have gone through torturous treatments to rid themselves of what they considered ‘abnormalities’ but today have been regarded as acceptable or even experimental. Just go back to David and Jonathan. I understand that even Eric Morecambe was hesitant about some of the sketches with Ernie Wise being filmed in bed together, and how it might even result in their popularity.

I hadn’t heard of dyslexia when I was a schoolboy, but now it’s accepted as a norm for many children. What I am trying to say is that the world has moved on, and as long as it doesn’t affect anyone else who cares?

As a personal experience a friend of mine since deceased had a daughter who could almost kick a football as hard as Delapenha and was what we called a ‘tomboy’. She married a nice lad and both of them were very successful solicitors in Elgin. They had 3 children but ultimately were divorced, as she decided she was now ‘gay’. Her fath


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Martin Bellamy
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@ken I don’t think she decided she was ‘gay’. What happened was more likely that she was gay since birth. Being gay isn’t a life choice, despite what many faith leaders claim. 


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Ken Smith
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Posted by: @ken

The question should be ‘who decides what is an unnatural sexual tendency?’ And my answer would be society at the time. Terrence Rattigan the playwright and one of my favourite authors was a serving RAF officer and his ‘dark’ secret had to be kept secret at the time. I have all the works of Oscar Wiide in my possession as he was my hero for his wit and genius, and there are possibly as many amusing quotes from his lips as there were from Winston Churchill during the Second World War. Daphne du Maurier was another of my favourite authors, and like several classical composers had something extra in their writings and compositions than the average person. However there are several famous people who wished they weren’t homosexuals and have gone through torturous treatments to rid themselves of what they considered ‘abnormalities’ but today have been regarded as acceptable or even experimental. Just go back to David and Jonathan. I understand that even Eric Morecambe was hesitant about some of the sketches with Ernie Wise being filmed in bed together, and how it might even result in their popularity.

As a personal experience a friend of mine since deceased had a daughter who could almost kick a football as hard as Delapenha and was what we called a ‘tomboy’. She married a nice lad and both of them were very successful solicitors in Elgin. They had 3 children but ultimately were divorced, as she decided she was now ‘gay’. Her father now deceased told me that he was glad his wife was not alive to see what he called her ‘regression’. However her daughters thought “it was cool, mum” but her son sided with his grandfather. Anyway she then had a 10 year romance living on the Isle of Skye living with Morag, but Morag was always frightened that this romance would become public and they have since separated. About 5 years ago my friend’s daughter wrote to inform that she had married a wonderful man slightly older than herself. I was happy for her with both of her marriages as I was above her gay romance. Nevertheless it’s easy for me to say that, but would I be as happy for her if she had been my own daughter? It seemed to me that it was an experiment that went wrong as Morag didn’t have the same commitment to their relationship.

When I was a schoolboy I’d never heard of dyslexia. I just thought that some children were either lazy or thick, but I know different now as my cousin’s eldest son who has dyslexia is now a Professor of Divinity at Glasgow University and just like my friend’s daughter sailed through her education with flying colours. I never heard my father swear, but being a steelworker he possibly did though I hope not as wish to remember him as the funny man he was.

When I hear TV announcers warning about programmes containing strong or industrial language, what they really mean is obscene language which I unfortunately picked up my self during my National Service days, but have never used since. To my mind there’s no need for it, even if you’ve been a Boro fan for as long as I have. Unfortunately even some of the fairer sex even use it today. Life has certainly changed in the last 75 years or so, not always for the better, but probably a greater appreciation of what’s acceptable and what isn’t. But as an Englishman I have a better appreciation of name-calling be it a Limey, a Pom or a Sassenach. Sticks and stones. and all that.

 

This post was modified 2 months ago 2 times by Ken Smith

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exmil
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This may be of interest:

https://www.spiked-online.com/2021/09/09/marc-bola-and-the-sins-of-the-teenager/

Come on BORO.

 


K P in Spain
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@exmil. Excellent article in my view and with which I concur.  

This is the FA undertaking a box ticking exercise and seeming to take a hard line with anyone appearing to utter social or racial abuse when in fact all they are doing is taking an easy option and not addressing the real and serious current issues of the day. 😎


Original Fat Bob
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@exmil

Great article well spotted. I’ve shared it on Twitter and a few Boro pod cast sites so hopefully it will be seen by a lot of people.

OFB


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Powmill-Naemore
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Posted by: @k-p-in-spain

@exmil. Excellent article in my view and with which I concur.  

This is the FA undertaking a box ticking exercise and seeming to take a hard line with anyone appearing to utter social or racial abuse when in fact all they are doing is taking an easy option and not addressing the real and serious current issues of the day. 😎

Ditto


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Redcar Red
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Exmil, excellent article putting my own thoughts and feelings into words.


werdermouth
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@exmil

The article makes some very good points, particularly why they have gone public with something before the case has even been heard - perhaps it indicates that this is more about them being seen to be doing something. However, the killer point for me was that the FA seem to have no qualms about sending their national team to Qatar for the World Cup where being homosexual is illegal - it seems that doesn't matter as much as a Tweet from a 14-year old does!

This post was modified 2 months ago by werdermouth

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