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Boro v Barnsley
 

Boro v Barnsley

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Stircrazy
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0 - 1!  What the hell's going on?  🙁


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Malcolm
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Glad that cup run is over, what a waste of time.

Going to be a difficult season ahead.


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Selwynoz
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I wonder exactly what CW and the team have learnt from tonight’s match. The team they picked was massively inexperienced and he wasn’t prepared to risk our first choice wing backs and midfield at any stage. 

For me the last two nights says something about the way that the League Cup is being viewed. The seeding almost guarantees that one of the top teams will win it and, for teams still trying to put their squad together, the risk of early season injury seems to loom much bigger than the upside of any victory.

I’ve always been a supporter of the League Cup - for obvious reasons- but now I have to ask whether it still has any value when almost the the whole Championship seems to have treated it as a training session for potential squad players.

Utb

This post was modified 2 months ago by Selwynoz

Ken Smith
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Boro at least improving. Two years ago Boro lost 0-2 at home in the League  Cup to Barnsley. Perhaps next time we meet we might even take the Tykes to a penalty shootout 


Pedro de Espana
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I did say Mr Wilder may play the youngsters to continue making his point to those in charge of the purse strings.

Well he truly did so and the bench also bereft of any experience apart from Akpom and Forss for what that is worth.

We never looked like scoring except for a couple of chances in the last ten minutes. Did we want to win this match, like heck we did.

Of course CW will give his reasons and excuses for tonights abysmal display, and I just cannot see us troubling Sheffield on Sunday.


Original Fat Bob
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Topic starter  

I listened to the game on Radio Tees somewhat like the performance of the team - half heartedly.

For once I didn’t listen to the pre match Wilder Interview or indeed the after match round-up by him.

Am I a typical Boro supporter after all these years? The stories of Boro not pursuing proven goal scorers are quite disheartening and the policy of letting players depart without sourcing adequate replacements smacks of unprofessionalism.

i was offered tickets for Sundays game but declined as I think I’m washing my hair that day. Oh hang on I haven’t got any! I’ll think of something else to do instead which won't cause any distress or heartache.

Am I taking this too seriously? Well I’m worried that we are sliding compared to last season and that’s a fact.

I’m sure I’ll be fine after a few days, after all I’m a typical Boro supporter!

 

OFB


Andy R
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Don’t panic, Bob.

It’s only three games and last night’s barely counts. We played quite well in spells in the league games - it’s a lot better than the Strachan days! The squad is still being worked on and it’s another drawn out transition period as the club try to reset on a new footing.

I was expecting more from the opening games but I think the club actually has a plan for the first time in a long while and it’s just taking some time to get to grips with it. Keep the faith!

Twelve months ago I was struggling with my enthusiasm for the club. My pre-season tip back then was 14th and the football was so hard to watch, utterly uninspiring with barely any moments to get you off your seat. Supporting Boro was a habit, a chore at times with little evidence that we had any kind of medium to long term planning.

Since Wilder came in I genuinely look forward to watching us and see a pretty decent team overall. It’s hasn’t clicked for us yet but I think it will and it’s so much more enjoyable to watch, whilst I do think we’re working towards a sustainable model that will benefit us longer term.

A little pain now. Gains to come.

This post was modified 2 months ago 3 times by Andy R

Selwynoz
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thanks @Andy R

I couldn't have put it better myself. The club has a plan.

We've got a bagful of good youngsters coming through and the longer term future for the club looks to be in sensible hands.

Looking at the shorter term, we've added some good players to the squad but only two of them will be here long term which is a bit of a concern. The current problem is to get in the five new players that CW wants who can make a difference to the first team right now and I'm guessing that at least two of these will be loan deals and possibly even three of them. If that's the plan, then the logic is clear; spend the money on the loanees, get promoted which then gives us the money to buy permanent replacements.

Anybody who thinks that we can go out right now and buy five permenent first team members is living in cloud cuckoo land. Strand Larsen and Greaves alone would take up most of the Tavernier/Spence windfall and we can'texpect to find another 15 million down the back of Steve Gibson's couch.

UTB

This post was modified 2 months ago by Selwynoz

Andy R
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I suspect that the club are operating a dual recruitment plan this summer as they did last year - longer term permanent signings driven by the recruitment team and shorter term deals driven by Wilder for what we need now.

It didn't work out particularly well last summer but there was a real disconnect between then manager Warnock and the club's longer term thoughts. I think we're a little bit more joined up now.

I suspect that Hoppe and Forss were more driven by Kieran Scott and his team, though I suspect Wilder would have agreed on Forss at least. The shorter term signings of Steffen, Lenihan, Smith and Giles I would guess were more Wilder initiatives, though again I suspect there would have been wider agreement on those, especially Giles.

Like Selwynoz, I expect the remainder of our signings to be more of the shorter term / what we need now variety with two or three being loans. Midfield is now the barest cupboard and a couple are needed there. I think we can prosper without a left footed centre-back though one would make a difference. I'm unsure of whether another striker is needed - depending on how Hoppe and Akpom cope going forward I guess - but a proven Championship striker would ease concerns.

So a minimum of two ready-to-go players required for me, with another two being big bonuses.


jarkko
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Did anyone see the match at Riverside?

I and me wife with our son were at the UEFA Super Cup yesterday. It was full-strenght Real Madrid playing Wilderball at the Olympic Stadium in Helsinki. They beat Frankfurt by 2-0.

The Germans wasted two glorious chances in the first half and after Madrid made it 2-0 the contest was over.

Excellent atmosphere at the Olympic Stadium,  though. Nearly 10 000 Germans there and about 3 000 from Spain. And a sell-out stadium (about 36 000) is rare in Finland at our biggest arena.

Up the Boro!

This post was modified 2 months ago by jarkko

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werdermouth
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Selwynoz

I stopped taking the EFL Cup seriously several years ago as nearly all the Championship clubs have been fielding under-strength sides in the early rounds for quite a while now.

Besides, the schedule doesn’t encourage Championship clubs to field their best sides as with two rounds in August squeezed around six league fixtures while many are yet to do the majority of their business in the transfer window, most clubs are still well short of first-teamers.

it’s become a competition in need of either being retired or completely revamped and rescheduled. I doubt many fans will be too upset their team has been knocked out, which probably says it all really!


Andy R
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I agree that I think the League Cup, at least in it's current format, has run it's race.

That said, the cup may provide some income for lower league clubs so, were it to be retired, a way to compensate EFL clubs in some way would be welcome.

Maybe the Championship's top 12 from the previous season could go into a ringfenced League Cup with Premier League clubs to create fewer rounds and more interest whilst the bottom 12 Championship clubs slip into the FA Vase (or whatever it's called) and EPL U23 teams are excluded.

This post was modified 2 months ago by Andy R

Ken Smith
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When I saw Boro’s line-up I thought to myself that there’s no way that Boro  could/would win this match in 90 minutes, and was not shocked or even disappointed that they should concede a goal in added time. With similar defeats to the likes of Bradford Park Avenue 1963, York City 1966 and again in 1971, Peterborough 1978, Chesterfield 1983, Bradford City 1984, Mansfield 1985, Tranmere 1988 and again in 2000, Notts County 2006, Accrington Stanley 2013, Burton Albion 2019, Crewe Alexandra 2019, and Barnsley 2020 all in the League Cup it’s almost pre-ordained that Boro would lose last night. Even when Boro reached the Final in 1997 they almost threw it away with a 0-1 home defeat to Stockport County. The one saving grace was winning the League Cup in 2004.

The FA Cup also had some painful memories too losing at Bradford Avenue in 1924, even when Boro scored 122 League goals in 1926/27 they contrived to lose to Third Division Millwall 2-3, with more surprise defeats to Bradford City 1930, Brentford 1949, Chesterfield 1950, Doncaster Rovers  1952 (most damning defeat of them all), Notts County 1954, Plymouth Argyle 1973, Wrexham in Jack Charlton’s 1973/74 promotion season, Bury 1976, Leyton Orient 1978 when Wembley almost beckoned, Notts County again in 1984, Darlington 1985, Grimsby Town 1989, Cambridge United 1991, Cardiff City in 1994 and again in 2008, Swansea Town 1995, Wrexham again in 2000, Burton Albion 2011, and Newport County 2019. The record against Welsh clubs almost a given defeat.

To be fair though from 2006 to 2009 inclusive Boro reached one Semifinal and 3 Quarterfinals, though overall it’s little wonder that Boro have never won the FA Cup. Nevertheless if I’d been a gambling man, I reckon I’d have made a tidy profit betting against the Boro in Cup matches alone. As for League matches there are far too many to recall. It’s as if it’s all part of Boro’s DNA, and supporting Boro perhaps should come with a Government Health Warning, but on reflection would we have it any other way?


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Powmill-Naemore
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Posted by: @andy-r

I agree that I think the League Cup, at least in it's current format, has run it's race.

That said, the cup may provide some income for lower league clubs so, were it to be retired, a way to compensate EFL clubs in some way would be welcome.

Maybe the Championship's top 12 from the previous season could go into a ringfenced League Cup with Premier League clubs to create fewer rounds and more interest whilst the bottom 12 Championship clubs slip into the FA Vase (or whatever it's called) and EPL U23 teams are excluded.

perhaps with a one-off p[lay off final at Wembley between the winner of the lower-level competition and the higher-level competition.


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exmil
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Jarkko, after travelling back overnight from a holiday in Turkey, I arrived home at lunchtime and managed 3 hours sleep but I was at the Barnsley match. The first half was pretty even as the youngsters found their feet playing with the more experienced players, in fact there were some very good performances from them. The second half we pretty much dominated and maybe should have scored before they got a 93rd winner, all in all (after never seeing a live U23 match) I think there is a nucleus of potentially some very good players coming through, they will have learnt a lot from the game, especially the last minute sucker punch. At least we have avoided an away trip to Leeds Utd in an already congested August, between Reading (A) and Swansea (H) so there is a silver lining to every cloud.

Whist away I avoided reading diasboro as I didn’t want my holiday spoilt by reading negativity about the Boro but I have caught up this morning and I am glad I made that decision! As far as transfers in are concerned, people think that the income from Spence/Tavernier deals should allow MFC to pay what ever the selling club what to get the player but maybe the article underneath may show some light on where some of the money may be going to avoid falling foul of FFP, unless someone has inside information on the state of Boro finances:

https://www.getreading.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/bristol-city-middlesbrough-stoke-reading-22734684

Am I happy about the first two results, no, but neither am I panicking and I suspect things may get worse before they get better. Will I be at the Riverside on Sunday, absolutely and even if we don’t win, I will be at the Riverside for every home game in my usual seat as I am in it for the long term.

Come on BORO.

 

 

 


Pedro de Espana
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Andy, whilst I would not disagree with your previous most regarding Mr Wilder and our style of play, I still have some doubts as to his longevity at MFC.

I also agree with Selwynoz and his take on this Cup, and the this rounds results prove beyond doubt those opinions posted on here.

However, I still think that CW was playing games last night and to have such a bench bereft of first team squad players even, does ask questions for me.

The other issue and controlled by affordability and Fair Play restrictions which we all understand, is the recruitement. There appears to be an obvious divide between two competing sides. The short term of CW and the long term of Scott and we can all again understand the differences.

However, most Championship clubs are now loaded with short term players. Forrest had 5/6 loanees in the first team I believe and picked very well.

This season as has been said, I am sure at least two, maybe three of the five CW wants, if successful, will be loans. The other two who knows if they will be projects or hardened experienced Championship players. CW has just stated he wants a 4, 5, 9, (that's why Hoppe is not getting that number) 10 and a 11. A big ask and can we really afford the real deal number 9?

One question though, does anybody else think that for project as admitted again by CW, 3 million euros or probably thereabouts is a lot to pay for such a gamble. We failed last year with Payero, and even Forss is open to debate at this time.

Jarrko, yes I did see  the match live and hopefully Sunday as a well.

 

 


Plato
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Bruce Rioch was a coming Manager, our current Manager is a battered veteran of many a battle who knows the value of bog standard football talk, fans love it, it means nothing, and is cheap! We have not fielded a striker this season, there has not been any discussion, or action to solve this problem. Without a striker the ball is often passed out of the area trying to rebuild a failed attack, this matters because it tells the opposition that We are a busted flush. This Is what happened last night. As soon as they realised that we were not eager to put boot to ball round the box, they relaxed, and looked for that one chance which we of course were happy to give them.      


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Ken Smith
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Ex mil

Lucky for some. Istanbul and sailing on the Bosporus is one of my favourite memories, not forgetting where the Simplon Orient Express used to finish. Happy days!

This post was modified 2 months ago by Ken Smith

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Ken Smith
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Jarrko

Sorry that Eintracht Frankfurt, the city of my ancestral home lost though. The National Stadium though best remembered for the Czech long distance runner Emil Zatopek completing the treble of winning the 5,000 and 10,000 metres and then entering the Marathon at the eleventh hour and winning that too in the 1952 Summer Olympiad. I don’t think that had been done before, nor since for that matter. Before your time I know but there is a statue of arguably Finland’s greatest runner Lasse Viren as you well know who won successive gold medals in 1972 and 1976, not forgetting one of Finland’s greatest composer Jean Sibelius in a nearby park. His most famous symphonic tone poem Finlandia especially a Brass Band favourite in the UK.

 


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Clive Hurren
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Posted by: @pedro

One question though, does anybody else think that for project as admitted again by CW, 3 million euros or probably thereabouts is a lot to pay for such a gamble. We failed last year with Payero, and even Forss is open to debate at this time.

Yes, Pedro, I do! I said as much on the QPR thread in my rant about our striker recruitment strategy. Today, CW has said that Hoppe is a development striker; in other words, he probably isn’t going to come roaring out of the blocks banging in the goals, which in itself is a disappointment. We know the squad is at least two strikers light, but instead of signing guys who can score the goals we need now, we’re still looking at the long-term. As I’ve said before, there are quality strikers out there in the lower leagues, many of whom could make the step up relatively easily. It’s a good thing to have a plan for the future, of course, and says sustainability, but doesn’t solve our current problem or make it any likelier we’ll be pushing on towards promotion.

Alternatively, we’re waiting on Premiership loan deals that so far have failed to materialise, which again is hugely frustrating. So I still think we’re asking a lot of these new lads, Forss and Hoppe, neither of whom is particularly prolific. I can’t see either of them turning into the 20 goal a season striker we so desperately need. I hope I’m wrong. 

As for the squillions we got for Tav and Djed, I don’t think it was ever likely we would splash the majority of it on new players. Gibson has just had to fork out another £5 million to keep the academy running, and the club incurred huge losses as a consequence of Covid. Some of that has to be paid back. I for one am pleased he is taking this sensible approach and not doing a Barcelona by living way beyond our means.  

 


werdermouth
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Clive

I still expect all of the upfront Spence/Tav cash (£22m) will be spent as current deals concluded and bids publicly mentioned are already £20m and could rise plus any loan fees or wages of PL players

Forss - £4m

Hoppe - £3m

Larson - £8m

Greaves - £5m

This post was modified 2 months ago by werdermouth

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jarkko
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Posted by: @ken

Jarrko

Sorry that Eintracht Frankfurt, the city of my ancestral home lost though. The National Stadium though best remembered for the Czech long distance runner Emil Zatopek completing the treble of winning the 5,000 and 10,000 metres and then entering the Marathon at the eleventh hour and winning that too in the 1952 Summer Olympiad. I don’t think that had been done before, nor since for that matter. Before your time I know but there is a statue of arguably Finland’s greatest runner Lasse Viren as you well know who won successive gold medals in 1972 and 1976, not forgetting one of Finland’s greatest composer Jean Sibelius in a nearby park. His most famous symphonic tone poem Finlandia especially a Brass Band favourite in the UK.

I passed the half way mark of the 1952 Olympic marathon this morning, when I dropped my wife off to work. It is just around the corner.

My eldest brother was at the Olympics with my father in 1952. As you said, I was born nine years after the Games.

The Stadium was renovated two years ago - it is really beatiful again. It was more expensive to renovate than building a new one. But I am happy with it now - as well as the Finnish National Board of Antiquities.

Boro used to come for a preseason camp in 1970's. Jim Platt bought a bracelet for his soon-to-be wife while in here. Boro played against Reipas from Lahti. Jari Litmanen came through the Reipas academy. 

Up the Boro!

This post was modified 2 months ago by jarkko

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jarkko
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@Ken

I suppose you do not have the score and scorers of the Reipas vs. Boro match played preseason in the 1970's. 

I have the match programme somewhere in the attic. I did not attend the match but was a Boro supporter by then. But I didn't know about the match beforehand. I lived just an hout's drive away back then.

Up the Boro!


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Ken Smith
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I don’t suppose our local rag will report the fact that Redcar Bears speedway team won the pairs competition last night at Oxford and by my reckoning the first silverware that a Teesside sports team have won since Middlesbrough FC won the Carling Cup in 2004. Obviously not as prestigious as Boro’s win but nevertheless a trophy we should all be proud of. So congratulations to Charles Wright 14 points and Lewis Kerr 11 points as Redcar beat Poole Pirates 7-2 in the final after their 25 points was the top score of the night amongst the 10 participating teams.  

My added information is that 33 year old Wright was born in Stockport, and 32 year old Kerr comes from Kings Lynn, neither local lads but recruited by promoter Jamie Swales earlier this season. I wonder if Chris Wilder’s recruitment will have similar success for the Boro this season!

This post was modified 2 months ago by Ken Smith

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MW in Darwin
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Posted by: @jarkko

@Ken

I suppose you do not have the score and scorers of the Reipas vs. Boro match played preseason in the 1970's. 

I have the match programme somewhere in the attic. I did not attend the match but was a Boro supporter by then. But I didn't know about the match beforehand. I lived just an hout's drive away back then.

Up the Boro!

Not stealing Ken's thunder but checking Harry Glasper's book Middlesbrough a Complete record 1878 to 1989 the result against Reipas was a 3-0 win goals from Armstrong Boersma and Maddren We also played HJK 1-1 Hickton and Kuopiom Palloseura won 2-1 Boersma and Craggs. took place in August 1976.


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David in Cumbria
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I went to the Barsnley match but not unexpectedly it turned out to be a chance for both sides to try out squad/young players and Barnsley had a more experienced squad. It was not a match between Championship promotion contenders and a 1st Division team. My pre-match forecast that we would find it hard to score/win and it could go to penalties was almost correct. Having missed the WBA match when I was isolating with Covid and as I won't be going to the Sheffield Utd match, at least it did start my 2022/23 season's attendance. Hopefully there is a lot better to come.

It was not worth the £120 overall cost to me and I was delayed to and from Middlesbrough by cancelled trains!

 

 


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Ken Smith
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MW in Darwin

No thunder stolen, as I wasn’t aware of those matches. I do recall end of season tours though to Ireland in the 1950s which often resulted in the signing by Boro of young Irish players such as Frank Mulholland from Glentoran in Northern Ireland, and Republic of Ireland players Jimmy Hartnett from Dundalk, and the double purchases of Arthur Fitzsimons and Peter Desmond from Shelbourne. Unfortunately I haven’t got the results of those tour matches in Ireland so am writing from memory.

Fitsimons scored 49 league goals in 223 appearances for Boro and was one of the few players to have played alongside both Wilf Mannion and later Brian Clough. However Desmond although not as successful with Boro did play for Eire (now of course Republic of Ireland) in the first foreign team to beat England on home soil; that was at Goodison Park in September 1949 as Eire won 2-0. 

That trend of signing players direct from Irish clubs continued with the likes of Alan Moore and Curtis Fleming in 1991, but not the inimitable Terry Cochrane who Boro bought from Burnley.

This post was modified 2 months ago by Ken Smith

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jarkko
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@MW in Darwin Thank you very much. Very much appreciated about the info. Up the Boro! 


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MW in Darwin
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Posted by: @ken

MW in Darwin

No thunder stolen, as I wasn’t aware of those matches. I do recall end of season tours though to Ireland in the 1950s which often resulted in the signing by Boro of young Irish players such as Frank Mulholland from Glentoran in Northern Ireland, and Republic of Ireland players Jimmy Hartnett from Dundalk, and the double purchases of Arthur Fitzsimons and Peter Desmond from Shelbourne. Unfortunately I haven’t got the results of those tour matches in Ireland so am writing from memory.

Fitsimons scored 49 league goals in 223 appearances for Boro and was one of the few players to have played alongside both Wilf Mannion and later Brian Clough. However Desmond although not as successful with Boro did play for Eire (now of course Republic of Ireland) in the first foreign team to beat England on home soil; that was at Goodison Park in September 1949 as Eire won 2-0. 

That trend of signing players direct from Irish clubs continued with the likes of Alan Moore and Curtis Fleming in 1991, but not the inimitable Terry Cochrane who Boro bought from Burnley.

Ken

The only Iris tour listed in the book was in May 1952. Boro played Glentoran won 3-0, Glenavon won 3-0 Cork won 5-1 and Drumcondra won 6-1 all in 6 days. Amongst the goalscorers were Mannion(2), Delapenha (5) , Macrae(5) Dicks, Fitzsimons and Spuhler plus 2 own goals. Interestingly pre season friendlies didn't start until 1961 but lots of friendlies were played during the season including in 61-2 the Cock O' The North between Newcastle Sunderland and Boro, played home and away, which we won. 


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Ken Smith
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A couple of days ago I mentioned that Redcar Bears Speedway team had won the pairs competition at Oxford and the first silverware won by a Teesside sports club since Middlesbrough FC won the League Cup in 2004. Although the latter was obviously more prestigious, I forgot to mention that Boro have since won the Premier League title at 5 a side in 2007 in Sky TV’s Premier all-stars competition. Captained by Gareth Southgate and including Bernie Slaven and speedway’s former World Champion Gary Havelock they beat West Ham 3-1 in the final. Gary Havelock born in Eaglescliffe started his speedway career as an 18 year old and won his World title aged only 24 whilst being a regular with Bradford Dukes but was always a big Boro football fan. 

Now having watched recorded highlights of the British Speedway Grand Prix at the Principality Stadium in Cardiff we have a new kid on the block in Dan Bewley. Sheffield’s Matt Fitzpatrick was certainly Golf’s player of the month in July, but Don Bewley is surely Speedway’s rider of the month for August as he won in fine style. At 23 years old the Cumbrian from Maryport won his first Grand Prix to stand 4th in this year’s rankings. His CV is highly impressive having won the Junior Riders Championship in 2017, and was a member of the GB Team of Nations that won the title last year. Currently riding for Belle Vue Aces, it would not surprise me if he were to beat Havelock’s record as the youngest speedway rider to win the World Champion next year.

This post was modified 2 months ago by Ken Smith

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