Well the only positive from last night is that Werder maintains his 100% record. 😉
A disappointing night where we didn’t play as we can and in my view made the gap between Leeds and ourselves look bigger than it really is; don’t get me wrong I have tipped them for automatic promotion but our poor display flattered them somewhat in my view.
Sadly, our early season failings and also of prior seasons resurfaced, when we had just had a purple patch of a few games which had led many of us to believe we had put them behind us; we didn’t turn up in the first half, defended too deeply, gave the ball away far too easily and failed to get close enough to attackers when defending.
We were better for a period at the start of the second half and got back into the game until we again showed our inability to see games out through making poor decisions and failing to execute, resulting in two further easy goals.
MC talks about learning from such games but it keeps happening and we are losing far too many to make a push for a top two spot and we will struggle to make top six unless we can start putting more games to bed. As Philip has pointed out we have lost seven already which is the most of any team in the top eleven.
We need a really strong performance on Saturday if supporters are to be convinced this team has the wherewithal to make the PL and this game was just another blip. 😎
With particular reference to how this will improve our defensive vulnerabilities.
In my opinion, it will not and I very much doubt he will reproduce the same attacking assists that he previously achieved the season before last.
The apparently uncontroversial opinion is expressed that while Borges has done well defensively(!!), his attacking capabilities are leaving much to be desired.
He may be better than Engel defensively, but overall he is not good enough to be a main stay in the first team. As a comparison, he is not as good as Dijksteel or Ayling. IMO.
Neither is Giles if we need a benchmark. So that has to be a NO against bringing him in, especially if we were considering buying him. It would be another wasted purchase for a LB.
Boro's current projected points based on what they would end up with if they had the same points per game as they have now is 71 - in comparison Leeds is 94, Sheff Utd is 97 (including their 2 point deduction) and Burnley 87 points.
As Exmil said there's still lots of points to play for but with 26 games remaining Boro are exactly 1 point per game behind Sheff Utd - 97 versus 71.
I presume top 2 will need 90 points or more (in last 4 seasons only once has a top two club finished with less than 90 - Bournemouth with 88) so Boro are looking at a minimum of 60 points from the remaining 26 games, which works out at 2.3 points per game or if you like only dropping a further 18 points - that's equivalent to winning 19, drawing 3 and losing 4 or basically only failing to win 2 out of every 9 games.
That's a tough target so perhaps we're hoping for someone to slip up and Boro to keep winning and stop making defensive errors - otherwise beating Sunderland in the Play-off final would be equally satisfying!
I’m hoping that too much pessimism doesn’t seep into this Forum. Modern life seems to predicate on everything being black or white, particularly in our current media, with no room for nuance.
There’s a trend starting on here of feast and famine, of glee when we win and ire (or at least severe disappointment) when we lose.
We’re not the best team in the Championship, but we’re better than most. Are we one of the top 6 teams in our division? I guess we’ll find out at the end of the season. I’m pretty sure we’d struggle if we got promoted but I suppose we should be prepared to take that risk. Would a successful run through the playoffs be an exciting end to the season? You betcha!
I’m happy to enjoy our wins and to move on from the losses. I’ve come to learn, not least from the health tribulations of fellow members, that sone things are more important than football.
I’m really enjoying the football Boro are playing this season and am not that bothered about finishing in the top 2 as think we’ll finish in the playoffs and that’s even more exciting!
@werdermouth Those are my thoughts too. Imagine playing Blunderland in the playoff final.
A perfect finale!
I'm not sure whether I mentioned earlier that I followed the Leeds game via the BBC Tees commentary rather than watching on TV (unlike the game at Burnley). The IMPRESSIONS I had, rather than my own observations, were as follows:
1. Boro, as a team rather than only one individual, had a less than distinguished performance, particularly in the first half.
2. Accepting that Leeds represents one of the best teams in the Championship (maybe the very best of them) Boro needed to show the very best form and perhaps a little luck to win at Elland road. Less than that very best form led to a not-so-surprising result.
3. Footballers are human beings and therefore cannot perform to maximum ability every game. But Boro's performances are sometimes VERY up (as in the series of 4-1, 5-1 and 6-2 wins) and sometimes VERY down (like yesterday at Leeds and the home game against Bristol City for example).
4. Successful teams are, by definition, consistently good. Not EVERY game, but most games. Boro cannot yet show that.
5. There is still more than half the season to run and more than enough points left to get promotion. Whether Boro will get the required haul of points to make that happen is more problematic. I suspect a Play-Off place is more likely than automatic promotion but, whilst the race is still being run, the team should be aiming for a top 2 position. It isn't impossible but would be difficult to achieve. But when were prizes gifted rather than having to be fought for?
6. I am being harried to go to the dinner table, so that will have to be that....
I would hate to think we'll then have 4 left-backs on our books and then still complain we need a proper left-back 😉
To conclude:
7. It SOUNDED to me that some players were giving the ball away too often and on the other hand when we did have a chance (eg Doak's one-one-one with the keeper) things went pear-shaped. Doak didn't get much ball in the first half and, if he's disappointed himself or the fans with his performance, that will represent the first occasion of having to say that with Boro this season! He's been having a great season so far.
8. Hackney and Barlaser, sometimes contributing a lot in earlier games, didn't do so in a positive sense yesterday and Borges is a better left back than I was at his age but, there again, I wasn't a professional footballer. I'd like to take a sneaky look at his passport to see if it really does say he's Brazillian. Latte Lath similarly had a performance he'll want to improve on next time out.
9. The manager doesn't seem to like early changes unless injury makes them unavoidable. If Brian Clough thought something was going wrong he'd change it, whatever the time on the clock, rather than allow more time to elapse giving more chance for it to go further wrong! I have the feeling that in general we get to 70 minutes and then have a look to see if someone on the Bench could do a job.
10. Michael Carrick gives the impression he never feels too "up" after a good win and never feels too "down" after a bad defeat (I say this without having heard what he said after yesterday's defeat at Leeds). That's OK. It wouldn't necessarily be a good thing to go over the top after the Oxford game and then give out lacerating public criticisms of the players after the game at Elland Road. On the other hand I trust that, in the quiet of the changing rooms or at the training ground, he will let the players know when things on the pitch are unacceptable.
11. I was nervous before and during the game yesterday. That was probably because (a) I'm not over-fond of Leeds as a club and (b) because I realised the game was likely to be tough one in which Boro's players needed to be at their best - which they sadly were not. So I wasn't amazed by the result but disappointed by what appeared to my ears to be a poor performance apart from a period in the second half. Boro needs to be better than that but most of the players have it in them to supply that improvement. I'm not over the Moon (hardly surprising!) but I'm not totally depressed by the result/performance.
12. The rest of the season starts this weekend at home against Millwall. I hope for better then!
Just wanted to add, I've seen Leeds three or four times this season, and they've been poor at times, you can tell by the reaction of Farke at the end of the game ,he was elated, proving how important this game was to them, he must have really been at them ,
I think it says , teams do understand if you don't get at us,or put the emphasis on defense we can turn you over,
The Leeds of last night, showed who they are when a team they respect comes up , they treat them differently.
At the same time ,if we're not at it, we can look very ordinary.
On another note , looking at Carrick tactically, Leeds set up to smother Doak, two sometimes three on him, obviously it wasn't his night, if he'd of brought Jones on at 60 mins, Leeds would have had to change tactics, and that might of put them off balance , allowing our right side more space..
I'm intrigued by your ideas on unattributed briefings to CJ. I have zero knowledge of how the media works, and I believe that you have a lot. Are your thoughts based on insider knowledge of what's going on, or textual readings of what you're seeing written or on your overall knowledge of how the media works? I've no basis to form an opinion about what you say, although it took me a little by surprise as up to now I haven't much sign the CJ or the Gazette generally have any kind of relationship, close or otherwise, with the Boro hierarchy. I'm also trying to figure out what the recruitment team are gaining from the relationship and wonder what you think might happen next as a result.
I’m really enjoying the football Boro are playing this season and am not that bothered about finishing in the top 2 as think we’ll finish in the playoffs and that’s even more exciting!
Hate the playoffs doesn't our record in them stink, other than when we beat Chelsea
Good post Peter. I don't have any inside information, it's just textual analysis, and of course I could be wrong. I have a lot on at the moment, but I will try to present a much fuller evidence base sometime in the future if you are interested
The Giles story falls into a pattern that I have already written about, and I think it's worth keeping an eye on in making sense of future stories.
Of course the test of whether any story is either reliably sourced or idle speculation will be determined by how accurate it eventually turns out to be. Time will tell.
Werder, great point. But by my count we already have four- Bangura, Engel, McCormick and Borges. If you add to that Coulson and the Leicester lad from last season, plus Van den Berg, McGree and O'Brien as makeshifts last season and Ayling this, then Giles would make it eleven in less than a season and a half.@lenmasterman: I would hate to think we'll then have 4 left-backs on our books and then still complain we need a proper left-back 😉
And we would still need a decent left back who can defend.
Thanks Len. It would certainly be fascinating to hear more about it when you get the time. Your take on the Tommy Conway/ Latte Lath story piqued plenty of interest last time.
I agree, it’s pretty obvious that Boro appear to have problems on the left flank which during our previous campaigns into the playoffs was pretty strong.
Whilst I’m unsure if Carrick and McGree have issues with each other, it seems that the original talent shown by McGree is being dissipated and this has created a vacuum which has not been filled. Perhaps McGree prefers to have a more free role, roaming along the front line rather than ploughing a furrow on the left and doing a job for the team? Perhaps he thinks he’s better than he actually is and this mind concept infuriates Carrick? Whatever the reason, a once promising talent appears not to want to play for Carrick or the Boro team and it would not surprise me to see him depart or be replaced in January or certainly at the end of the season.
I must confess that the problem we have had at left back over this season has not been solved whoever fills that particular position. If Boro are to try and recruit Giles ( perhaps on a loan basis ? )his previous success could be replicated as he obviously enjoyed working under Carrick and giving him a game plan to ensure that defensive frailties are not to the fore it could be a good fit.
I personally would like to see Giles return and was disappointed that we didn’t sign him permanently, although the fee of £5.5 m quoted to have been paid for him was excessive.
It doesn’t look like Carrick is happy to thrust one of the academy young stars into that role as he would have done so previously without sticking with his Brazilian protege.
I've seen some great left full backs/ wing backs at the club over the years ( no not Gentleman George Hardwick ! Although I knew him personally and used to be friendly with his son when I was a young guy.) French Frank, Ziege (my personal favourite in this position) Terry Cooper, Frank Spraggon and let’s not forget Colin Cooper who was converted from his more central position into being a stalwart down the left hand side. We are not the only club to have struggled with this position as I remember Liverpool even tried to convert Stuart Downing from a left winger into a left back!
So if our recruitment department are fixated on bringing Giles back into the club it would take time to integrate him back up to speed and also match fitness as he has hardly played this season which should prove a cautionary reminder to all.
So five left full backs at the club? What would big Jack have thought about such a dilemma? He would have gone out and brought in someone he knew (Terry Cooper!). Perhaps Carrick should use his knowledge of the Man Utd squad and unearth a player that he trusts to bring in or perhaps he is a Giles convert as well?
In conclusion, we could just limp along as we are but somehow after the way that we have been leaking goals down the left hand side, I don’t think so………..
OFB
@lenmasterman Arguably one could say that O’Brien was defensively the best of the eleven, especially as a left footed midfielder.
I am dead set against bringing in Giles, returns rarely work out.
if would could get VDB back and injury free for longer than of late, he and Edmundson would be the best pairing at CB. Whilst the latter is right footed he can play comfortably with his left.
I’m with Bob, in that McGree is nowhere near the player we had previously at this moment. I would stick with Burgzorg or as others have suggested, Jones. Defensively he is the best of all of them.
Unfortunately, at the moment we are suffering from injuries to key players just like last season.
VDB, Morris, Forss (when will he be fit) and of course, a half fit Hackney?
Come January though, making space to bring more players in, may be difficult.
@original-fat-bob - If McGree were to depart from the club in January as speculated, I predict that his fitness levels will improve, he will stop picking up the niggling injuries he has suffered, and he will suddenly become available for 90+ minute appearances for his new team.
Pretty amazing that 10 players have taken on the left-back role in the last couple of seasons and I'd be puzzled if Giles returns given his form since leaving has dropped and as you said defending wasn't his strong point - I'd also forgotten about Luke Thomas on loan from Leicester.
Incidentally, I young McCormick's preferred position is central defence and he's only played as a stand-in left-back because he's left-footed and has a bit of pace. Though he's listed as only being 5'9" so doesn't sound ideal for a centre-back unless he's still growing.
@original-fat-bob I think United have more issues with their defence than we do, especially at LB. 🤣