I do not understand if this is correct English, but I am sure @Dormo can help.
Dom Shaw wrote in the Echo today: "Carrick insists his Middlesbrough side are capable of stringing together the wins required to lift them into the Championship's top six."
See the word in red (above). All my logic says it must be "is". The word 'side' is singular, but I know the Boro side have many players. But still ...
I am sure Dormo will help me in here (again). Up the Boro!
@jarkko It’s definitely correct to use “are”. “Middlesbrough side” comprises 11 players, hence the use for plural objects, even though “side” suggests a single object.
is that right Martin ?@jarkko It’s definitely correct to use “are”. “Middlesbrough side” comprises 11 players, hence the use for plural objects, even though “side” suggests a single object.
Middlesbrough is a side not some side, although it would be nice if it wads some side!!
My instinct would always be to use the singular, although I appreciate that the plural is often used and I probably use both forms at different times without ever really realising it.
@jarkko - I am back home, having arrived yesterday evening after a long journey. The North West Highlands of Scotland remain good to see, especially when it is as sunny, dry and calm as it was during the period of my visit. The Midge hasn't woken up yet, though no doubt between early May and the end of September will return with a vengeance (armed with knives and forks to feed on the unfortunate visitors). I was able to spend a day in Inverness and on the Moray Coast whilst up there. I was even able to nod to the signs for Glenrothes on my way back. All in all, a good few days and clearly much better than Boro's performance at Swansea.
I note, Jarkko, that your optimism is present, as usual. Bob's predicted "Boro3" is also a sign that, whatever Boro's team can throw at its supporters, some of those hard-battling folk can still raise a fist rather than show resignation.
I have NO idea what the result is likely to be against QPR this evening, but I will be there. I note the weather forecast is currently for a cloudy 6C with a 30% chance of rain at 7pm and a 63-64% chance between 9pm and 11pm so the walk back to the car might be less than pleasant. I won't look forward to that.
I saw reference to the article by Scott Wilson in the Northern Echo. Lack of heart and effort in a sporting team is unacceptable and will almost inevitably lead to defeat. Effort and commitment is the least any supporter is entitled to see from his team. Talent and ability is one thing, but even the poorest of players has a duty to show effort.
@Jarkko - MY method of writing would include reference to a club or a team as a singular entity. There is only ONE MFC and it has only ONE Championship team, so I would say the team "IS" capable of winning the next game or qualifying for the Play-Offs (if I believed it to be true). As in: "This team IS quite capable of stringing together the sequence of wins required to finish in a Play-Off position, though it has to be said that other teams are equally capable of doing the same". Middlesbrough's First Team IS not ideally placed to qualify. My local team IS Middlesbrough. My Scottish League team IS Ross County (aka "The Staggies" - Dingwall's finest).
The players are many but the team is singular.
Having said which, most Media companies and Press outlets like newspapers have their own "House style guidelines" on English usuage, spellings and the way they want text to be set out They may specify how they want books/articles etc to be written in order to ensure that a consistent approach is adopted throughout the newpaper or publication. The style guidelines may be re-written or updated from time to time as general English usuage changes. For example "The Times" suggests using "a 62-year old man" rather than "a sixty-two-year-old man" to reduce the number of hypens. The Northern Echo and The Evening Gazette had style books/guides, and may still have though I'm not going to spend time looking them up! It doesn't matter which formulation of words one prefers, if that formulation were to fall foul of the style guide for that particular organisation, the text may be subject to the editor's, or sub-editor's, knife.
I am aware many people these days say or write "Middlesbrough ARE rubbish" or "Middlesbrough ARE ahead at HT" and I guess some publications will follow that usage. But I don't... Everyone is likely to understand what is meant from the context, whether the singular or plural is used, so there is no need to lose sleep over it. Your English is "native-speaker level". Not everyone in England speaks or writes that well, even if born here, and even if they can speak or write well they can still make mistakes!
And thanks for your Match Preview!
@jarkko It’s definitely correct to use “are”. “Middlesbrough side” comprises 11 players, hence the use for plural objects, even though “side” suggests a single object.
Oh no, not for the first time in my life, I’m now wracked* with self doubt. Greater minds than mine have spoken, and contradicted, what in my head, was a certainty. I’m more than happy to concede and accept my error.
*or is it racked? Please don’t look inside another open can of worms. It’s tricky this English language isn’t it?
@forever-dormo Thanks. Interesting point from @Martin, too. But it does not help in learning more.
I will stick to the Dormo's side, as the rule is more logical. And more like my mother language. I prefer a rule without exceptions.
Up the Boro!
This is a facinating blog.
BTW, we have a match tonight. Or Boro has.
It is my turn t remind that. Up the Boro!
The English Language is often very inconsistent. Spellings and pronunciations in particular are inconsistent and there are many YouTube channels which dip a toe into the complexity of the language (and the differences between the English spoken in Britain and the versions of English spoken in other countries).
Imagine trying to explain to someone from China that the following spellings of "ough words" in English are pronounced differently:
though ("tho") - I'd like to explain, though I might not have the words.
thought ("thort") - I thought I did have the words but was disappointed to learn otherwise.
tough ("tuff") - The meat was tough, almost impossible to chew.
through ("throo") - People threw quoits all THROUGH the 18th and 19th centuries up to date.
drought ("drowt") - 12 months without rain in MIddlesbrough would certainly be a drought.
cough ("coff") - It wasn't the cought that carried him off, it was the coffin they
carried him off in.
And other "ea words" - bread ("bred"), steak (wooden "stake"), weak ("week"), earth ("urth").
The English language is as good an example of inconsistency as Middlesbrough Football Club's 2024-25 form.
Jarkko, dormo, Martin
Great stuff, prompting a linguistic debate! Dormo is quite right that, grammatically we should say, ‘Boro IS playing badly’ and so on. But most people I know talk about their team in the plural (‘Boro ARE at home tonight and ARE expected to get 3 points) - wishful thinking - and have done so for years. Most journalists follow suit. ‘Liverpool ARE expected to win the league.’) It’s the style I use in my starters and when I’m talking football. I think this is accepted common usage these days.
Starting XI - four changes, with Howson, Iling-Junior, Burgzorg & Iheanacho in for Fry, Giles, Whittaker & Forss:
Yes, English can be a strange language at times, and then especially with the words one pronounces the same. There and Their
However, although Spanish is a phonetic language generally, what you see is what one says, apart from the silent H.
It is the verbs that I have found hard to deal with. There are so many tenses. And that does not count the locals where we live, dropping the last letter off the word.
I guess all languages have their issues. But Jarrko does very well.
Well off to the match. Let's hope there is not too much ***** English being spoken tonight.
Some odd pronauncing things I found difficult some time ago - even I know them by now. But I remember a few examples from the past:
Gary Gill <> Gillingham
A penalty <> penalize
Raleigh (different pronoucing depending what is meant, a bike as an example)
These things get easier the more you use the language. This blog and following Boro has made it possible to do my current work. Our company has about 15 000 people, and I was the only one speaking Finnish for the first 15 years in this job. Now I have a college in Poland, who is half Finnish.
So it is not all about Boro for me here. But Boro is the most important as I have followed them since 1970.
Up the Boro!
@stircrazy At least George McCormick is on the bench!
Perhaps the only fit centre back at the club now. Up the Boro!
back four as expected but not sure how the front four will line up - Iheanacho isn’t really anything other than a striker even though he seems to play in a number 10 role - glad to see Burgzorg starting though!
I will miss the first 25 minutes or so as am picking up my son from handball training - and he’s late coming out 🙄
Boro takeS the lead: Conway in the 11th minute, assisted by Azaz. 🙂
(I'll come back to that "S" later... 😉 )
CJ:
Superb from Hackney. He wins a crunching 50-50 before getting back up and playing a great ball in behind for Azaz on the left. He waits for Conway's run before playing it across the face of goal, with the striker arriving to touch the ball beyond Nardi. Deserved lead after a positive start.
Still only 1-0 at half-time. Several decent chances to increase the lead spurned, if CJ is to be believed.
two good chances and some half chances but QPR missed a glorious opportunity to equalize.
UTB
Only saw the last 20 minutes but Boro look to be playing with more energy and intensity and are on the front foot - though QPR nearly got back into the game but thankfully missed a glorious chance.
At least we are passing the ball nicely. It could have been 3-1 for us. Burgzorg and Conway (a second) should have scored. And QPR miss a sitter on the 42th minute.
Nice football- what we used to call CarrickBall. Up the Boro!
QPR are so poor all over the pitch they are making Boro almost look decent. Should be more than 1-0 although Boro contrived to give QPR an easy chance just before half time.
Iheanacho is supposed to be a striker but has spent too much time playing on the right and not very well.
Howson has brought a calmness to the defence.
Hopefully QPR can continue to be ineffective to allow Boro to win.
Philip of Huddersfield 👍😁
Btw on the grammar issue - I think football teams are group nouns so are plural - Boro are winning 1-0 at half time.
Other group nouns
Family - my family ARE away on holiday
Bands - Pink Floyd ARE unlikely to play together again
Basically football teams are a group of players so it’s ARE
As opposed to the town with the same name, which is singular
Middlesbrough is a town in the north east of England.
Middlesbrough are still outside the top six
Fantastic goal from Dijksteel 🥳
Dijksteel increases the Boro lead in the 58th minute, assisted by Morris. 🙂
Forss & Whittaker on for Conway & Iheanacho in the 77th minute.
Sloppy goal. Now 2-1 . Can Boro see it out. Hope they don’t go all defensivPhilip
Sloppy goal. Now 2-1 . Can Boro see it out. Hope they don’t go all defensivPhilip
Thank God for that Dijksteel goal!
Phew!
Phew indeed and other results going our way so far.
Last four games with 2,25 points per game average.
Back to seventh in the table.
A good performance until the corner and goal for QPR.
Did I see OFB with his missus in the main stand, too?
Live is good. Up the Boro!