Sounded like we should have won. Appears their defender was lucky to stay on with the Jones foul. Like KP I would be interested to know if that was the case.
@stircrazy. I think he is referring to the fact that initially people thought Jones was brought down inside the box but in fact the contact was outside so it was not a penalty.
The defender was yellow carded for the foul whilst some think it should have been red as he may have been the last man but I am not so sure, I will need to see it again. 😎
Cheers, KP. 👍
EG ratings
eny Dieng - 6
Little he can do with the first two goals. The third goal looks an awful one from a goalkeeper's perspective, but they're awful to deal with, particularly in such torrential conditions, because you can't commit too early with so many bodies ahead of you. He made a couple of important saves as well.
Rav van den Berg - 5
Better second half, but Argyle's first two goals came from his side. Lacked support from Jones, but was drawn inside for the first, leaving the space for Mumba, and was then sold by the runner to give Azaz space for the second.
Dael Fry - 6
Solid enough afternoon despite conceding three. Few were his fault, but he could perhaps orchestrate things a little better to stop Boro being so dragged around. Dominated his own duels throughout though.
Paddy McNair - 7
Little he could do with any of the goals, and put in a couple of important tackles and interceptions against a good footballing side. Played some good balls out of defence too.
Lukas Engel - 6
Tough afternoon against Morgan Whittaker, but he by no means disgraced himself against a very tricky and direct winger who tends to score most of Argyle's goals. His today was a set-piece so little Engel could do with that. Set-up Boro's first goal, but was disappointing in possession otherwise.
Jonny Howson - 6
Was better in thee second half as Boro started to dictate things a bit more, but struggled first half, as Boro did overall, to contend with Argyle's play in possession, with the home side in control in the first half.
Hayden Hackney - 7
Return to league action was a tough one with Plymouth wanting the ball as much as Boro. When Hackney did get on the ball, particularly second half, he always wanted to make things happen, and his press led to the Boro second.
Isaiah Jones - 5
Involved in the attack for Boro's third and when he broke in behind he should have at least caused the home side to go down to ten men. But in the first half he wasted a good chance at 1-0 to play Coburn in behind after a counter, and was also slow to get back and support Rav van den Berg for Plymouth's first two goals. That end product still needs work.
Sam Greenwood - 7
Struggled to get into the game in the first half, but came out with real fire in the second half. After two early chances, his clever feint drew the foul to win Boro their penalty, and then he scored his own shortly after to put Boro in front.
Matt Crooks - 7
Not always the easiest of games for him, but he assisted Boro's third goal and knitted things together well in the second half as Boro looked far more dangerous in possession.
Josh Coburn - 8
At the ground that he very nearly called home this season, Coburn netted two goals and led the line for Boro with real grit and determination. After a frustrating spell as far as goals are concerned, the brace will hopefully be important for him.
Substitutions
Morgan Rogers (For Crooks, 79') - N/A
Emmanuel Latte Lath (For Coburn, 79') - N/A
Sammy Silvera (For Jones, 85') - N/A
Personally I don't think the substitutes made any difference this time.
I don't think it was a standout performance by Crooks but he put his stamp on the game and made some good runs and linked up play - though also didn't think any Boro player had a consistently good game throughout the match. Maddo gave MoM to Fry - the Gazette gave him a 6 and made Coburn MoM with an 8 - which was a bit over-rated but I guess he scored twice so probably gave him an edge even if he got luck with the pen.
Hopefully, Carrick noted how van den Berg struggled against pace at right-back and rarely got forward too - surely Dijksteel is the right choice for right-back now. Also didn't think Latte Lathe looked lie scoring and and another striker in January must be a priority.
Michael Carrick didn't speak to the referee or fourth official after Middlesbrough's 3-3 draw with Plymouth Argyle, but revealed what the immediate message was on the controversial Mickel Miller incident that left him struggling to understand the decision.
In a crazy to-and-fro game, Boro took the lead, then trailed 2-1 at half-time. They came back and led 3-2, which is when the controversial Miller incident occurred, before the home side then equalised to settle a six-goal thriller in almost biblical wet weather in Devon.
The controversy came when Isaiah Jones ran in behind the Argyle defence and appeared to be headed towards goal. From the angle in the press box he appeared to have entered the penalty area when Miller brought him down as last man. Referee Darren England, however, only gave a free-kick, which, with double jeopardy removed, should have resulted in Wright seeing red.
READ MORE: Middlesbrough and Plymouth share the spoils after game of twists and turns, goals and controversy
But England only produced a yellow for the Argyle defender, leaving Carrick scratching his head. Though he didn't see the point in asking about it after, his assistants spoke to the fourth official about it during the game, with the Boro boss revealing what they were told at the time.
A frustrated Carrick said: "I just don't understand it. I haven't spoken to the referee or the fourth official about it. It's pointless really. But speaking to our bench who did, they are ten yards behind me and the fourth official said he was running away from goal towards the touchline.
"So he's [the referee] obviously got that wrong because Izzy's angle, he was heading directly to goal. It probably was outside the box but I don't really know what else you need to do to get a red card.
"It's a massive moment in the game. We were in a really good place at that time and it probably would have finished the game off for us. It's frustrating when that type of decision happens. Some of them you get, some you struggle to understand, and I really found that one difficult to understand."
I haven’t seen the game as I was out this afternoon, but people jumping on VDB about their goals, although every report I have read, from professional sports writers, has said he got no cover from Jones, which should be taken into account.
Come on BORO.
Being ahead on 2 occasions only to be pulled back is disappointing. Not to see the game out when winning 3-2 perhaps shows a lack of experience. But before the game I would have taken a draw.
So we move onto the next game in the hope of 3 points.
Meanwhile the locals here at Huddersfield are pleased at a clean sheet after conceding a total of 8 halal’s in the last 2 games.
Philip of Huddersfield 👍👋
More goals. Double Middlesbrough3, i think. Entertaining but a bit dissappointed we did not score four or five. But thats football.
Up the Boro!
A thrilling, skilful and entertaining game with Plymouth playing well in the first half, scoring two well worked goals, and going in 2-1 in front, perhaps a little fortunately.
Because Boro also played well with Jones and Crooks combining well down the right, and the whole midfield playing some attractive football.
The main Plymouth threat also came from the wings and both our full backs were vulnerable defensively. VDB was at fault for both goals, being drawn into the middle leaving his unmarked winger with a tap-in for the first. The second came from his buying a dummy leaving his man with a clear shot at goal. Blaming Jones, our best attacker, for either is a bit of a stretch.
I like VDB and am looking forward to ultimately seeing him play in his preferred centre-back position. He has filled in well at full-back.
But calls for the return of Dijksteel are now well justified and cannot be ignored for much longer.
The second half was a different proposition with Boro in complete control for the first 20 minutes. Howson and Hackney dominated midfield, and the two goals we scored could easily have been doubled with a little more care. Jones and Crooks laid on Greenwood's goal, Greenwood's skill brought us a nailed-on penalty.
Had Crooks' not squandered a gilt-edged chance after a surging run behind the defence, and if Greenwood had only seen Crooks' clear run on goal, the game would have been over.
But torrential rain and a Plymouth equaliser against the run of play- one of those free kicks that evades everyone and ends up in the net, the kind that you always feel the keeper should have saved- made the last ten minutes a lottery which either team could have won.
I have never seen Carrick so agitated post-match, feeling that the game should have been put to bed well before the end. I felt that disappointment with his players in terms of defensive errors and wasted chances was being displaced on to the match officials.
The penalty claim turned out not to be justified, occurring just outside the area. The foul may have warranted a red card, but not clearly so.
I'll give Josh my M-o-M for his two goals and a display of grit and determination, but Howson played well in the middle of the park, whilst the Crooks - Jones combo once again constituted our main attacking threat.
A game then that Boro felt disappointed not to have won, but one that I thoroughly enjoyed with both teams succeeding in playing very attractive football.
@exmil I think that Jones could have defended a little better at times, however, the first goal was a replicate of an opportunity after only a few minutes with VDB and Howson at fault.
One also has to remember, although Jones may have done better at times with his final ball, he cannot be expected to attack as much as he does and defend as much as some expect. Greenwood in the first half gave Engel little support. Not too much criticism there.
As much as most of us on here think VDB has done quite well at RB, he does not offer as much as Dijksteel does when the latter is playing up to scratch.
However for me, MC believes that both VDB and Howson offer more than Dijksteel or Barlaser. That’s fine, he calls the shots. But I would say, we certainly need more from our midfield, because what we have is not good enough.
Of course, that is only my opinion. As is, we should have had all three points today.
Reads like quite an exciting game with a few controversial moments, I'll look forward to the highlights later on today. It's interesting how people differ in their opinions on who played well and who didn't. Looking at Whoscored they had Azaz as man of the match for Plymouth and Greenwood for us. There keeper got their second place whilst Dieng was given our lowest mark of 5.4. Did he have a bit of a stinker?
@mw-in-darwin The game is all about opinions and the Newcastle v Arsenal certainly threw up some different ones, even with VAR. One view that I saw, the ball looked to be out of play.
Plymouths goalkeeper had a good game and probably more to do than Dieng. I do not think he was the worst of our players. Overall, I do not think Greenwood was our best player. But he scored a goal and won the penalty. Coburn for me.
Greenwood had another good game yesterday and his emergence has been an unexpected bonus of McGree's unfortunate absence.
He was certainly a M-o-M contender, given not only his goal and penalty award, but also his all-round display.
He does however remind me of the early Martin O' Neil, whom Clough and Taylor described as playing in blinkers. Martin played in midfield and could be a tricky dribbler, but he continually ran into trouble and failed to pick out team-mates in a better position.
The managers' solution was to move him out to the right wing where he only had to take into account the left-hand side of the field. Cloughie told him, "Listen,son. What you have to understand is that you can't play. Your job, when you get the ball, is to help move it over as quickly as you can to the left wing. Get it out to Robbo . Because he can play".
I'm not suggesting that Greenwood should be shipped out to the wing, but he does tend to run into trouble, and yesterday was too often caught offside, and on one notable occasion failed to pick out a better placed colleague.
He is not alone in this; both Rogers and Silvera, for all their promise, have the same tendency and this can become a major problem if they lose the ball in the middle of the park, making us particularly vulnerable to counter-attacks. Sivera was guilty of this yesterday with only a few minutes left to play, a mistake which could have had disastrous consequences.
But back to Greenwood. After an uncertain start he has blossomed into a creative, energetic and dangerous midfielder. He is also a young player who, under Carrick's guidance, is likely to get even better.
@lenmasterman Two excellent posts by you, Sir. I loved reading them and agreed with them.
A dissappointing result but as Carrick said, the performance was there. A good game to watch but of course but we had two times more shots on goal and we should have seen the game out.
But we definately can compete on the upper part of the Championship. At least we do not need to worry about relagation, and as there are still 31 matches left to play for. Everything is there to play for.
Up the Boro!
From the EG
Refereeing controversy costs Boro
When it comes to Boro's frustrations it's hard not to feel aggrieved by the second time Argyle drew level in the game, through a Morgan Whittaker free-kick on 77 minutes. While there can be few complaints about the decision to award that sloppy free-kick, whether they even should have been in a position to win it in the first place is debatable.
Seven minutes prior to their equaliser, Plymouth really ought to have been down to ten men. While it initially looked as though Isaiah Jones had made it into the penalty area before being brought down by Mickel Miller, Michael Carrick conceded after that Darren England's decision to give a free-kick was the correct call.
However, in such circumstances, with Jones ultimately through on goal, Miller was the last man and ought to have been sent off. Boro's coaching team were told by the fourth official that Jones was headed away from goal. Quite simply, he was not. It was a terrible decision and, with Boro leading 3-2 at the time, would have almost surely sealed the win for them had Plymouth gone down to ten.
Referees come under a lot of pressure in what is ultimately a difficult and thankless job. But quite frankly the standard of refereeing in the country at the moment leaves a lot to be desired, highlighted by the fact there seems to be a fresh controversy around officiating every weekend. It has to improve.
But Boro must shoulder some responsibility for only drawing
While Boro have a right to feel aggrieved by that decision that potentially costs them two points, it would be wrong to entirely pin the result on that one moment, particularly after a game in which Boro conceded three goals. That tells its own story of Boro's own shortcomings in the game that cannot be forgotten about.
At one end they scored three goals which is to be admired, but scoring at important times is something Carrick spoke often about during the early difficult spell in the season, and this was another game that highlighted that importance. At 1-0 up in the first half, before a quickfire Argyle double completely turned the game, Boro had a couple of decent opportunities to extend their lead. If they go 2-0 up it's likely a very different game.
But the bigger issue was, not for the first time this season, Boro's defending - particularly in the first half. Some credit has to be given to the home side, of course, who got themselves on the front foot early on and moved the ball well to open up spaces in Boro's defence which they exploited, much in the same way Carrick's side aim to do at the other end.
But from a Boro perspective, the first two goals in particular were avoidable. First of all, they stem from Boro not being aggressive enough in the midfield, with Plymouth finding it too easy in the first half to bypass them and get into the final third. But once there, Boro's defensive structure ultimately has to be far better than it was.
On their right in particular they looked vulnerable, and for the first time Rav van den Berg looked very much like a centre-back playing out of position, with his instinct to drift centrally gifting Bali Mumba the space to miss a golden opportunity after just three minutes, before making amends with a fine equaliser.
With Van den Berg looking uncertain and also lacking support from Isaiah Jones ahead of him, the organisation around the box for the second was poor. Fooled by the overlap beyond Finn Azaz, Boro's young Dutchman neither followed the run nor stayed tight to the Aston Villa loanee who, to be fair, then produced an absolute rocket to beat Seny Dieng.
The likes of Dael Fry and Jonny Howson were around in the moment, but no one stepped up to offer any kind of leadership and organisation, with Boro instead reverting to the early season struggles of defending as individuals rather than a team again. In-camp, they'll know they have to be much better out of possession, particularly next weekend when league leaders Leicester City visit.
Big day for Josh Coburn
It's a funny game at times football and on another day Josh Coburn might have been sat in the stands watching on having joined Argyle on loan from Boro in the summer and therefore unable to play against his parent club. Instead, that agreed loan move fell through and the Teessider was instead lining up against Argyle after winning his place in the Boro side some weeks ago.
There have been so many positives to Coburn's play since coming into the Boro side, with his link-up play proving particularly important. However, he conceded himself after that he's been frustrated by the lack of goals of late after missing some decent opportunities.
To leave Plymouth with two will hopefully prove a big moment for the 20-year-old - who we already know has the capabilities to be a very good goalscorer. His first was a typical Boro move, showing patience in the final third, going from side-to-side and waiting for the right opportunity. Coburn's movement in a penalty area is one of his biggest strengths and he got himself in the right area to get on the end of Lukas Engel's low drive across goal.
His second was, in his own words, 'scruffy' as he initially saw his penalty saved but had some fortune as the ball spun back into his path for a tap-in. When Sam Greenwood won the penalty there seemed little doubt from the youngster who was taking the spot kick, with his desire to get goals for the team clear. Two in Devon will hopefully prove somewhat of a kickstarter for the striker to get himself on a bit of a run now.
I've just added the Plymouth game to the home page with the link to the Highlights on the MFC website if anyone hasn't seen them yet.
@malcolm Although the football section of Teesside Live, as it is now known, comes in for regular criticism , I believe that Craig Johns match reports are usually well written and accurate from my perspective anyway.
I was pleased to see him also think Howson and Fry could have done better for the first goal and that in the first half the midfield were weak.
I wonder when MC will consider giving Clarke some minutes. Also it is a real shame that O’Brien is out for sometime, he would certainly stiffen the midfield area.
@malcolm Although the football section of Teesside Live, as it is now known, comes in for regular criticism , I believe that Craig Johns match reports are usually well written and accurate from my perspective anyway.
I was pleased to see him also think Howson and Fry could have done better for the first goal and that in the first half the midfield were weak.
I wonder when MC will consider giving Clarke some minutes. Also it is a real shame that O’Brien is out for sometime, he would certainly stiffen the midfield area.
I agree. I find him pretty solid and sensible in what he says. That may be because he seems at times to take some comments that have appeared on here and work them into his articles. 🙂
I’ve only just seen the highlights - didn’t fancy a 2.00am kickoff - and it strikes me that Jones has put some work into his final ball which was much better. He really does seem to have an excellent partnership with Crooks.
i find it hard to criticise Dieng for the third goal. It was clearly worked. They anchored him to the line with a feint from the right footer and the left footed took a superb free kick that was too fast and too far for him to cut out. That then left the only hope to be one of the defenders getting their first and everyone just missed it.
looks like a very open game and great for for the neutrals, which, of course, isn’t a lot of use to us. We gave too many opportunities for Plymouth to score.
utb
I haven’t seen the game as I was out this afternoon, but people jumping on VDB about their goals, although every report I have read, from professional sports writers, has said he got no cover from Jones, which should be taken into account.
Come on BORO.
That is worrying when we have our next game against a team with really good wide players.
Thank you for two excellent match reports, Len. It’s always good to get your perspective, and especially from someone who (I assume) was actually at the game. I’ve only seen the highlights, which of course give a very limited picture.
Just noticed that both whoscored and the BBC have now given the first goal on Saturday as an own goal. Did anyone think that was so?
@mw-in-darwin I think Josh said in the BBC Radio Tees interview that even he was not sure if he scoreg or was it the defender.
I have seen about five replays and cannot say who was the scorer. I hoped Josh would be credeted as it would boost his confidence if his season total would have included two goals scored at Plymouth.
Up the Boro!
Come on BORO.