@clive-hurren I’d concur with your view of the game too.
It’s ok to criticise MC, as others have done, but if the players at his disposal aren’t deemed good enough, what’s he supposed to do?
Report on the match from today's Times:
No player ratings, just a round-up of the rest of the weekend's matches.
@stircrazy And here’s the Guardian’s report: https://www.theguardian.com/football/2024/feb/04/middlesbrough-sunderland-championship-match-report?CMP=Share_iOSApp_Other
If we'd left the stadium with Boro having held on the 1-0 lead, I'd probably have been happy. There may be the odd game where Boro plays really well against a very good team, and loses, and I can see in those circumstances that we'd take the proverbial positives from the game. But far more often it is the result that determines the reaction of the supporters. Boro needs to win more games, esecially at home where the form is very average. In light of the game my position may be summarised as follows:
1. Forss is the player most likely to score from virtually any given attacking position that Boro might find itself in.
2. Glover - I was disappointed he didn't do better with the Sunderland goal (I'll bet he is even more disappointed with himself) but how come the Sunderland attacker came into a position where he could have died of loneliness waiting for the pass that eventually came his way? There were no Boro defenders in the same postcode as Rusyn. To be fair, Glover has previously looked reasonably assured between the posts and if one big mistake meant any player would be given the bullet, there would be precious few in our squad who would feel safe. Allison for Liverpool yesterday didn't exactly cover himself in glory, did he?
3. Hackney is clearly capable of playing very well at this level but he is still fairly young in terms of his career. Whilst it might be unrealistic to expect absolute consistency from someone fairly new to first team football, Hackney clearly has dropped from his previous standards and, assuming he is fully fit, he now needs to climb back up the ladder.
4. I saw a note yesterday saying something along the lines that Boro now has a large number of players who have scored seven (? or was it six?) goals so far this season and, if one more joins the list, it will be a record for Boro - maybe an all-time record. I won't waste tine now trying to find the note to get the details but, whilst it's good not to have all the eggs in one basket, it's still helpful to have a couple of players who score heavily rather than a lot who each score a few. We all know we generally concede goals so the need to score more of our own is all the more pressing.
5. If we had players who had the speed, talent and fitness of Manchester City's squad, we'd be able to play out from defence all the time and retain possession, going back to our keeper, if need be, in order to do that. We don't have players like that. Trying to play like Manchester City, Barcelona or other "top teams" won't work with the players in Boro's squad. There are times when even Manchester City would be better booting the ball out of the penalty area if their goal is in danger, especially bearing in mind that team's expertise in recovering possession in a very short span of time. It should be a question of risk. If the risk is that a goal might well be conceded, then don't take the risk of playing the ball across the penalty area or returning the ball into the penalty area, but GET RID upfield or out into touch! The better your players compared to the players in the opposition team, then the more taking those risks might be worthwhile. Otherwise, it seems sensible reduce the risks of conceding by not playing risky moves near to our goal. I might say this is not because of a particular incident in the Sunderland game, but it is a general point of annoyance. Who in the crowd isn't nervous when it looks as if Boro is trying to be Manchester City Light? Or to put it another way, a Formula One racing driver can probably power my family car round the A174 Roundabout at the end of Kirkleatham Lane at 80mph even if there are other cars on the road (he'll probably overtake them), but if I overtaxed my driving abilities by trying the same even at 50mph, I'd probably crash the car. Expecting Boro's players to play in a manner way beyond their speed and levels of talent is to invite disaster.
6. I am not a betting man. If I were, I'd try to let realism control my heart. Let's look at the table as it currently stands
Leicester played 30 points 72
Southampton '' 29 '' 61
Leeds '' 30 '' 60
Ipswich '' 29 '' 59
West Brom '' 29 '' 48
Hull '' 29 '' 45
Coventry '' 30 '' 44
Sunderland '' 30 '' 44
Norwich '' 30 '' 44
Preston '' 30 '' 42
Watford '' 30 '' 41
BORO '' 29 '' 41
Cardiff '' 29 '' 40
The top four teams can be seen only in a telescope. So, realistically, BORO currently finds itself a full TWENTY points behind the last of the 2 automatic promotion places, on level games with Southahampton, and that is completely out of reach. Even 3rd and 4th places (the top 2 Play-Off positions) are currently 19 and 18 points ahead (Leeds and Ipswich) and almost equally unreachable. West Brom and Hull are currently 7 and 4 points ahead of Boro but there are also 5 other teams between BORO and the lowest of the Play-Off position teams. If we look only at the 6th and last place (currently Hull) BORO would have to outperform all the 6 teams above them in the league to get into the Play-Offs. It may be possible to outperform a team or two but it seems highly unlikley BORO will outperform them all. And that is only to get into the Play-Offs and Boro fans know that is a very different thing to winning the Play-Off competition.
Basically we are now entering the territory of "to qualify for the Play-Offs, every game is a MUST WIN game". How do people feel about that? Anyone prepared to say that BORO is good at MUST WIN games? And not just ONE such game but a whole series from now until the end of April. Not going to happen. Probably better for all our blood pressures to let it go quietly and simply try to enjoy each game as it comes rather than stressing about what each result will do to our "Play-Off hopes". If we win a game, then that would be nice. If we steal an undeserved draw, then that can be good, too. Even good performances in a losing cause can give some satisfaction. But each failure to have won the most recent "must win game" will have lost its pain beccause, realistically, we all knew there was never any chance of promotion or the Play-Offs in any event. Teams which win one point out of six against teams the like of (rock bottom club) Rotherham don't get near to promotion to the Premier League in any version of reality likely to be recognised in this universe.
@forever-dormo Unfortunately dormo, a very honest and truthful appraisal of where MFC are at of this moment.
I do not know how we have achieved it, still four points behind Hull? Perhaps, as has been said previously and in this thread, the top four teams apart, we are playing in a very, very ordinary Championship, where each team can beat one of the others and are still
I posted before the cup games, that when we get to the final whistle against Sunderland, then our season may well be over in terms of achievement. Well sadly it is.
Yes, we have all said, that the football played under Carrick, has been been better to watch, most of the time. However as you said dormo, we do not have the players to execute the system in the way Man City and others do. MC should have been a little more pragmatic, and I do believe if he had, then we would have gained a few more points.
I also think it is true, that if we just enjoy each game, for what it is, then we will enjoy them all the more. Again as you said, the horse has bolted, we have no chance of catching it now, baring a miracle, if you so believe in them.
Whilst Mr Carrick especially, will not want to concede the obvious, it would help if Mr Gibson and MC could make a statement, may be in the weeks ahead, of the commitment on both parties to improve the squad for next season, building on what we have done this.
That would encourage the Season Ticket holders also, to commit once again. Even possibly, to encourage a few more to put their hard earned money down.
Let’s be honest, when MFC, as they do, put out the “early bird renewals” application request, early being the main word there, there just might be a fair number of punters, who give it a second thought.
@forever-dormo A very sensible post. In the same way that we can relax a little once relegation has definitely been avoided, we might feel less stressed once we accept that the play offs are beyond us.
Someone may have mentioned once or twice - it’s is the hope that gets you…
Sometimes comments may seem harsh ,and we all look at performances differently, but can anyone really be happy with were we find ourselves once again , the nearly man, a team one week excellent then the next two average, for a number of seasons we've signed players , with fanfare who never get a game or play once or twice then dissapear.
The fans have been unbelievably loyal, but , the club better be careful, once the disappointment sets in, and they walk doing other things on a weekend, you can quickly end up dropping further.
This is my concern ,I've seen it before, that's why I expect and I hope the staff do, a higher standard of performance, we are told we are a big club, then why are others passing us by, and that's a fact, one season in the premiership in how many seasons,
I'm pointing these things , not that I don't think it can be done,but it should be done , hopefully the new reset will work, but please sign players who make the first team better and dominant , ones who handle it every game.
Looking around at various football sites/Boro supporters/ex players etc the opinion is and we already know, Gibson and the recruitment team should have done their hardest to bring in a striker. Never mind this bellowing from the club that he has to fit in. You will never know until you get him.
Carrick said he was happy with the transfer window. In reality I bet he wasn't but as he is getting paid by SG etc he daren't say too much.
I agree with many of the sentiments/concerns expressed by others but have to say they hardly come as a surprise.
MC has talked often about the need to continually improve as a team and squad. Many of us however expressed concern at the beginning of the season that despite the new recruits and less reliance on loan players the squad was not stronger than last season.
Given, that scenario and the fact that the previous season we failed to make the play off final with one player who was top scorer in the league and with two loan players from a PL side, then it was difficult to see how we could better last seasons fourth place position.
What we have is an average championship squad which has not been assisted by a large number of injuries. That being said we are not alone on the injury front as others have also suffered.
I agree, accept our fate and enjoy what good football comes our way. 😎
From EG
Very much a feeling of two points dropped rather than a point gained, it left Boro 12th in the Championship. They're still only four points off the play-off places and have a game in hand on some of their rivals, including Sunderland, but it's hard to escape the feeling that this draw highlighted many of the problems that feel likely to contribute to their shortcomings in that top-six race if not sorted quickly.
Not least of those issues is Boro's inconsistency. Whether that's from game to game, or half to half within a game, it's so hard to predict right now what incarnation of Boro will turn up week to week - and in a race as tight as this season's, that's a particular problem.
Not gaining points he feels they deserve is something Carrick has bemoaned going all the way back to the start of the season and that tricky seven-game winless start. In terms of their turnaround, after a six-game winning run throughout September and October, Carrick's side have managed to win consecutive league games on only one occasion.
Since their win away at Norwich in October, Boro have won only six of their 15 Championship games and in five of the games they've failed to win they've taken the lead only to let it slip. In both games against basement club Rotherham United - which yielded just a solitary point in total - they dominated and failed to kill the game off.
It's ultimately at both ends of the pitch where Boro are being punished. While usually quite apt at dominating possession in games (their season average is 53.1%), they are too often letting in sloppy goals like Sunderland's, while not finishing their chances as often as they should.
While not always the most definitive measure, their current xG shows they should have scored 4.5 more goals than they have this season, while their xGA shows they've conceded 8.7 more goals than they should have. That's calculated to have cost Carrick's side eight points this season, the addition of which would move them up to fifth place, one point above West Brom.
Asked why he felt his side weren't winning as many points as he felt they deserved, Carrick said: “It’s all sorts of different moments and factors that are costing us really. It’s hard to pinpoint a particular thing, compartmentalize it, and say, ‘that is the whole reason’. It’s a little bit of both ends really.
"The ruthless feeling and killer touch at one end. But I can't really fault the boys because a lot of the work is good and I feel like they do deserve their rewards. But I feel like it’s up to us to earn them rewards as well. It’s not an exact science when we look back over the reasons why, but there are so many good things in there that we’re doing against good teams, that should give us the confidence we need to make that next step and finish games off."
Certain factors look easy to highlight. The lack of a clinical striker in the squad after the struggles in both the summer transfer window and again last month to find the right one at fair value for money is an obvious one. The injuries that have afflicted the squad and contributed to inconsistency in team selection is another.
Nevertheless, as the Boro boss pointed out, when you know it's in your locker because it happens often enough to not just be considered a one-off or a fluke, not finding those top levels of quality on a consistent enough basis is a problem Boro have to solve quickly.
Carrick's message to his players is clear as he looks for them to take that next step that his side managed so efficiently last season - becoming ruthless and consistent. Following the draw with Sunderland, Boro now have 17 games remaining. Their average points tally of 1.4 per game over the last 15 is going to have to be better if they are to repeat last season's feat and make the play-offs again.
@forever-dormo Today's goal from Marcus Forss means we’ve had 8 players (Forss, Crooks, Coburn, Rogers, ELL, Greenwood, McGree and Jones) who have scored 5 or more goals this season. The last time that happened was in the 1901/02 season. We’ve never had 9. Come on Jonny Howson (who’s on 3).
Up the Boro!
Jones been really missed, hope he gets back soon.
@pedro you make a good point about fan numbers, tickets are expensive and the clubs fan base is in one of the poorest areas of the country with a few exceptions, so if they think we won't be competitive people may not renew and as has been said fan numbers may fall, it has happened before. I must admit over the last few seasons I have thought long and hard about renewing my season tickets and luckily I can afford them. But then maybe I am a sucker for punishment.
Hopefully we manage to purchase a forward as currently the cupboard is bare......
I had a season ticket at Ayresome park and also the Riverside but stopped after the Bryan Robson/ Terry Venables era. Obviously I still support the team but from a distance, ie Dias Boro/The Echo/Gazette / watch the streams and other sources for info. Not bad for a 77 year old Scotsman. 😀
@malcolm The Echo article on that interview: https://www.thenorthernecho.co.uk/sport/24099752.middlesbrough-kieran-scott-strikers-free-agents/
Up the Boro!
@jarkko - Thanks, Jarkko. THAT was the stat I had seen and was trying to remember in point No 4 in my post of 4.24pm yesterday! Eight players with 5 or more goals so far this season and, if we could find a ninth such player, that would be a club record. Obviously it would be better to have someone sitting on 20 goals at this point in the season and another on 15 goals, with the other six players on five goals or more but, if that were the case, we'd be 20 points better off and the mood on here would be very different! Thanks for clarifying that. I know I'd seen it somewhere...
@malcolm - Thanks for that, Malcolm. I see the podcast/interview lasts more than an hour so I will set aside some time later today to watch it. Cheers.
@malcolm. I agree that he adds to the team when he is on song but like so many players he remains inconsistent and far too often his final ball is lacking.
His return to the side will not alone solve our problems which remain at both ends of the pitch; a new striker who can score regularly will assist but whilst the failings of the team as a defensive unit persist, we will not make a serious challenge for promotion.
Sunday was a classic example of things we have seen over recent seasons. Having taken the lead we failed to see the game out due to collective and individual errors.
Ayling went charging forward in an attempt to tackle/engage Clarke but mistimed his attempt and was left in his wake as he broke upfield. Two other players came over to engage Clarke but neither were able to make a tackle or block his cross which went to a forward who had been left completely unmarked. He had all the time in the world to control the ball and shoot. Glover unfortunately had not got his angles right and allowed him to score at the near post without getting a hand to it.
So for me we are just not strong enough defensively and overall as a team we tend to flatter to deceive at times, rarely do we see a game where we dominate the opposition and come away as clear and decisive winners; on occasions we win games by two or more clear goals but could quite easily have been on the opposite side of the result.
In the main, I have enjoyed watching the team and the brand of football that MC has instilled but remain frustrated at our inadequacies and inconsistencies which continue to hold us back and which show how big a gap we need to bridge to achieve and sustain PL status. 😎
Great post which totally encapsulates our position, our hopes and our season in a nutshell.
OFB
@malcolm Whilst the football side of the Gazette gets stick on here sometimes, which I can sympathise with, I believe that generally, Craig Johns' post match reviews are very much accurate, well in my eyes anyway.
The article you posted was very much to the point and one could argue that he does not sit on the fence as much as some of the journalists before him. What he writes is very much what we feel, by a large number on this blog.
@KP but whilst the failings of the team as a defensive unit persist, we will not make a serious challenge for promotion.
I know that it is a much quoted saying, that you start at the back and go from there. Individually, the goalkeepers and defenders are not poor players and at times look the part. But over this season and last, they just have not been consistently good enough.
Take Fry, we all thought he was going to be better that Ben Gibson, but it has not come to pass, with injuries and inconsistent performances. The same applies to all the other players we have in this most important area of the team. Van de Berg is still very young, has do remarkably well considering, so hopefully will be the exception to take us forward.
The main problem for me as I have said many times, is the midfield. It lacks pace, it lacks real defensive ability in terms of man marking and tackling. These are fundamentals to midfield that can protect the back line and also break through the lines to the forwards. Also take Jarkko's post of the 8 players who have scored 5 or more goals. (I assume that is in all competitions, which detracts from, the goals scored in the League games). So, where are the midfielders chipping in with their contributions?
Yes, we play easy on the eye (most of the times) football, for that we are grateful. However Michael Carrick as we know is still learning and has made a good start to his Coaching career. But now he needs to step up a rung or two on the ladder and prove he can get more out of the squad and team he has at MFC, obviously with help from Mr Gibson, Mr Scott and his recruitment team with better players brought in for next season.
A bit of light relief from the Guardian: https://www.theguardian.com/football/picture/2024/feb/06/david-squires-on-chris-wilder-the-other-earl-of-sandwich?CMP=Share_iOSApp_Other
@martin-bellamy - Wonderful cartoon comic strip. Stips the pomposity from Boro's former manager.
I saw that cartoon in today’s Guardian. Isn’t it wonderful! It really made me chuckle, especially as anything that denigrates Wilder must be a good thing in my eyes!
Part of Eric Paylor’s article from the EG
“And so to Bristol City, who have become one of Boro’s bogey team in recent years. In fact, Boro have won just two of the last ten meetings against the Robins, including none of the last four. Part of the problem was the Nigel Pearson syndrome. The former Boro skipper always seemed to do very well when managing teams against his old club.
Pearson is gone now and City are licking their wounds after six league games without a win, stretching back before the New Year dawned. So this is a great opportunity for Boro to put the Sunderland frustration behind them and get back on track.”
I read the above and just groaned, what could go wrong against one of our bogey teams who have not won in the last six games, typical Boro anyone! 😎
I fully agree with Pedro’s comments about Boro’s defensive shortcomings.
You only have to look at WBA who have been set up with a strong defensive unit. As a result they’ve won their last 3 home games 1-0. Didn’t play particularly well but know how to see out a game with a 1-0 win.
Just like Karanka did.
As a result WBA are something like 5 or 6 points above Boro in the League table.
Philip of Huddersfield
I see Neil Warnock is on his next saviour mission at Aberdeen.
I am sorry but I won’t give up on Boro quite as easily as some, if not most, on here. I know we are 12th, 4 points behind 6th placed Hull but IF we win our game in hand we will be joint 7th and another 16 games to go (after the game in hand). Players returning from injury do take a game or three to get up to speed, we have McGree back and Silvera didn’t get many minutes in the Asian Cup so he has to get up to speed as well, although we only had 3 incoming in January, give them a bit of time to integrate into the team and tactics, Azaz is showing he is getting better, Ayling is decent and we haven’t had chance to judge Luke Thomas, let’s see where we are at the end of February.
I was going to start the Exmil Challenge after the Plymouth game, so the first fixtures would be the weekend of 1/2/3 March but if most people think our season is finished, is it worthwhile 🤔.
I am not convinced that even WBA are safe in the playoffs yet and with 17 games to go, and we all know anything can happen, so keep the faith.
Come on BORO.
A fair report from a Sunderland viewpoint. 😎