No - they've had three shots and three goals - with the last one offside.
@philip-of-huddersfield Away to Leicester on Tuesday will be big test, especially for Edwards and his selection of system and team selection.
Although as a couple have mentioned, we have not played that bad, arguably we have been poor giving away easy goals.
Hackney is not a number 10 or suited to the playmaker role. This has been obviously seen in his performance this afternoon. Poor passes and abysmal shooting.
Strelec, Whittaker, Hansen, McGree & Sène on for Jones, Burgzorg, Morris, Conway & Hackney in the 69th minute.
Having made 5 subs Dale Fry now needs to come off...
The only positive about today is to see Riley McGree back on the field. 😎
Bring on 5 attacking players hasn't really added anything going forward - then again it's four strangers who have hardly played let alone together so no real surprise.
Putting McGree to one side (as he has been for much of his Boro career), it would take someone with very good eyesight to spot many silver linings for Boro in that team's performance. And I say that with a couple of minutes left in the game.
Hoping for a late goal... from Oxford to keep us at least in second spot!
Yes get in! Oxford equalise in the 97th minute!!!
What can I say thoroughly dispiriting day can't score and have teams figured us out like they did last season. MOM pollacks son, not one of our players would get above a 4
@paulinboro - Clearly on current form we do NOT deserve to be in 2nd place. But on the basis of all the games so far this season, the table doesn't lie and the position has been earned. The problem is that if there isn't an immediate improvement in current form, Boro will not remain 2nd for long. The decline in results and performances has to be addressed succesfully.
A bad day at the office . I don’t think any of us saw that score line coming. Fully agree with Werdermouth that our attacking players seen as though they’ve never played together.
Only good thing to happen was Millwall conceding a 97 minute equaliser to prevent them from going second in the table.
Suddenly it seems as though half a dozen teams are now closing in on Boro and their second place in the table.
Getting some kind of result and point(s) against Leicester next Tuesday seems imperative to retain a lofty position in the Championship.
Philip from Huddersfield
👎☹️☹️
I find myself completely flummoxed by Edwards’ team selection and later choices today. He started with just two forwards, neither of whom is a fluent striker and neither of whom has scored for ages. And how does he justify playing Burgzorg when he has Strelec and Sène to call on? Wing-backs to provide crosses - OK, I get that - but who’s going to be on the end of them if the midfield doesn’t get up to support?
At half-time, he had the opportunity to change things, but most unusually, considering his recent record, he left it unchanged. Then, with Boro 3-0 down, he brings on 5 subs, but not until the 70th minute; five attacking subs at that, but there seemed evidently no plan as to how they would play together or even gel in the remaining time. And using up all 5 proved to be a risk too far, as Dael Fry then picked up an injury that left him limping through the rest of the game. If this proves to be a long-term injury, as a result, then you seriously have to question the wisdom of a) using all 5 subs in one go, and b) leaving Dael on.
Meanwhile, we have scored just 16 goals in 13 games. Worrying signs.
Do we deserve to be 2nd
The answer to that question is definitely Yes. Will we maintain that position if we don’t start to pick up points? Definitely not.
Good post Clive. My feelings precisely. We started off in control and finished up playing like a pub team with no coherence or plan. Mass substitutions, throwing people on and hoping something will stick will do nothing for players' confidence or morale
Do we deserve to be 2nd
Good question and I will answer it with the form table stats
Last 6 - Boro are 15th (W2 D2 L2 F4 A6 - 8pts)
Last 8 - Boro are 11th (W3 D2 L3 F7 A8 - 12pts)
Last 10 - Boro are 10th (W4 D4 L2 F10 A10 - 16pts)
Last 13 - Boro are 2nd (W7 D4 L2 F16 A11 - 25pts)
So at the moment it's seemingly down to those first 3 games (W3 D0 L0 F6 A1 - 9pts) that is keeping us even in the play-off positions. Unfortunately, Boro's form has fallen and just 4 goals in the last six games is starting to be a worry as our defence has also been less mean.
It's probably time Edwards started playing those summer signings as the longer they sit on the bench the more they will find it hard to rediscover the form that made Boro sign them. If Burgzorg and Whittaker are the answer then why sign them?
Edwards is more or less starting with the forward players Carrick struggled with at the end of last season - we don't seem to have a centre-forward and if the wing-backs are providing the width going forward then it opens us up defensively for the counter attack.
However, for the first 30 minutes today, Boro played quite well going forward but it seemed to be at the expense of not being able to defend against Watford's breaks.
Ayling was probably Boro's best player today, Hackney had a terrible game and most of his touches were off. I got the feeling he wants to play both Browne and Ayling but doesn't want to drop Morris or Brittain. This leaves us with defenders and defensive midfielders being the ones in the positions that we'd want genuine forward players.
Edwards needs to make some tough choices and he also really needs to get his big money signings on the pitch so they're at their peak and learning how to play with their teammates.
So hard to see the form returning until the team looks more balanced and Boro start scoring goals! Take away the first 3 games and Boro are basically averaging a goal per game and conceding a goal per game - which is not promotion form.
It's quite bizarre but in our two defeats to date i genuinely feel that neither Portsmouth or Watford were actually better than us on the day.
I was actually surprised how well we started today, I genuinely thought they would be out of the blocks and in our face, they weren't and I thought we had the measure of them in the first 15 minutes and looking the more likely to open the scoring.
We all knew before the game that they were very pacy on the counter and we allowed it to happen, Edwards explaining after the game that it was something they had worked on in training but failed to heed his words.
It is what it is, put that game in the bin, move on to Leicester who are having a tough time themselves, we are all long enough in the tooth to know that we will always lose games, its how we react so on to Leicester we go.
I didn't fancy us to get anything today but I do fancy us to get something from Leicester.
Dare I be the one to day it first, but we would have won that one last season 🙄
PJ is right. Put that one in the bin and move on. Both the Foxes and us will want to play that one out of the system on Tuesday. Let us hope we will come out on top.
My three in the middle (Hackney, Brown and Morris) didn't deliver for us today. Burgzorg was a strange choice for me. So, Strelec must start on Tuesday.. do we also revert to 4 at the back? Perhaps that will work better with those three in the middle and Conway, McGree and Strelec starting up front.
Imperative to find the key to the goal scoring cupboard sooner than later.
It was more than a bad day at the office in my opinion, in last 7 matches we have won 2 and we look like the Carrick team at the end of last season.
We don't look like scoring is it too many changes, I'm glad it's not my problem to solve but we must do it quickly
I’m not too worried about the goals conceded today. The first two were uncharacteristic or Edwards’ team and the third a mixture of a worldie and fortunate. In that sense, it was just Watford’s day.
I’m much more concerned about our ability to score goals. There’s been more than enough games now to prove it’s a major problem.
To me, it’s abundantly clear that we don’t have a striker that can play the lone forward role. Edwards’ two formations employed thus far both use a lone striker.
We need to tweak it. Conway always works his socks off but he hasn’t got the physical presence to play that role consistently well. Strelec and Sene have been brushed off too easily too.
Today we had the extra man in midfield which largely allowed us to control possession but there was never an overload in a dangerous area, only ever 30yrds+ from goal.
I don’t mind the wingback system but if employed I think today showed that it has to be more attack minded in selection, and also once again that Conway needs a partner to play off.
I would switch the two 10s and single striker around for a single 10 and two strikers.
Hackney and Browne look like the best partnership in midfield at the moment (I don’t hold Hackney’s performance against him today, there was nothing in front of him and he had to force everything). Morris will have to be benched.
In just twenty minutes, McGree convinced me that he’s the brightest 10 at the club.
We don’t have in form forwards but given the outlay and potential I’d go with Strelec to partner Conway.
The back three gives us some solidity, Hackney-Browne is much more forward thinking than Morris-Browne, McGree is the most creative midfielder at the club and a front two suits the forwards better.
If chasing the game, I think a smarter choice would then be to change the wingbacks for two wingers like Silvera and Hansen and push them high, rather than throw forwards on.
Obviously Boro’s coaches know far better than I ever could but, despite remaining second, I just cannot see it working with the current setups.
I think for the first time this season we have dropped below the two points per game ratio.
Today was our biggest league defeat of the season and I appreciate the concerns raised, however, I still arent overly concerned just yet.
Can we, by the end of November, regain that two points per game, to do so, we need 11pts from our next five.
Confident that we can do that ? I think we can certainly get close to, if not achieve it.
@powmillnaemore Edwards may be forced to start with 4 at the back on Tuesday as Fry looks as though he will be missing, unless he takes a gamble with Edmundson.
I will say though, the wheels are coming off. In fact I think we are already missing one, and as Wedrer’s Form Tables show, have done for so time now.
It just does not look as though Edwards and his Coaching Staff have any idea as what to do with the team selections, enabling us to score more goals that will win games when we concede.
Yes, we deserve to be second because we have amassed more points than 22 other teams. However, where as we had a points cushion previously, that has now evaporated and it is possible that before the end of November we could fall out of the top six.
It is obvious that a team will not continue to win games if you do not score. We struggle to score one, never mind the realistic two needed to win a game.
We have spent what is a reasonably large amount of money on forward players in the last 18 months. However how many actually look the part and will deliver the goods, either with assists or goals.
Generally, apart from Sol Brynn and the defence, the midfield and forwards are failing. If this is not rectified, then Edwards and Scott will also fail.
@pedro I understand the concerns Pedro, the expectation was always going to increase following our season opening but the reality is that no club could maintain that start
But putting some perspective on it we have picked up the following
12pts from 12 in August
6pts from 12 in September
7pts from 12 in October
Maybe October was an improvement on September despite the " the wheels are falling off /fell off ", if we can get 8/10pts in November then we improve again on October.
We were always going to settle into an average points return, and six/seven from 12 would be around a play off position, improve that by a couple and you get an automatic promotion position.
Having watched all 13 games no team has really hammered us ( despite a 3-0 yesterday ), every game has been tight highlighting that it just takes a little something to click and off we go, on the other side of that we drop off a little bit then we get beat as yesterday and Portsmouth proved.
Just for interest. up until yesterday Stoke had scored 13 goals from 12 games ( worse than us ), they then go out and score five in one game against a good Bristol City, no major changes from Robins, stick to doing the right things and it will happen etc, yesterday it clicked for them, maybe in our next game or two it will click for us.
Have already mentioned, we have to put yesterday in the bin and move on, we are still above pre-season expectation, yes Edwards needs to keep working on that balance between defence and attack, both occasions in the first half we were caught out defensively whilst attacking, that is the conundrum and why I said on Friday, for me, we should go to Watford and keep it tight for the first 45/60 minutes, we didn't, we were encouraged to attack, to leave ourselves open to the counter and we fell into that.
Let's see where we are end of November before we consider wheels falling off, this is a tough tough league, we will always lose games but its not about looking at games in isolation, the important bit is picking up a set amount of points over each period of games, that will decide our season.
Onwards and upwards to Leicester.
PS - Always optimistic and still will be even if we lose our next game.
@presidentjump That’s a good positive take and post PJ. Maybe our expectations are a little too high.
However my main concern is the scoring of goals, as even any good team can conceded them.
Andy’s also very good post, describes the options that Edwards has and has tried.
The reality though even given Andy’s pick of two upfront, it is still only rotating the same players in Conway, Sterlec and one other.
Looking back, I wonder just how interested MFC were in signing Danny Ings, or more importantly a more youthful Danny Ings?
@pedro thanks Pedro, yes we all want to see us scoring goals and the truth is the different formations and personnel haven't produced that yet.
Who knows, maybe we get to January in a solid position and we potentially utilise the loan market to bring in somebody who can make us tick upfront.
Personally, I still think between Conway, Strelec, Sene, Nypan, Whittaker, Hansen, Burgzorg etc ( and now Mcgree ) there is goals and creativity in them, and i would like to think plenty of them, but we certainly haven't got that nailed down.
Does Edwards become more expansive and as a result put more pressure on our defence or does he keep that foundation we have built at the back ( excuse the 3 conceded yesterday ) and keep trying to work out that conundrum up top.
Yes, that's a good point about the subs and it making more sense to give them a structure to affect the game by switching to more attacking wing-backs.
Plus there is still no sign of Edwards knowing how to deploy his attacking players more effectively and as you suggest, the lack of a genuine centre forward means there's often nobody making the runs into the box as a focal point.
At the moment I'm not sure if Edwards want to play with full-backs or wing-backs and after switching to a back four he's revived a back three to get Ayling into the team - but he's essentially playing as a pseudo wing-back and has been delivering some quality balls. It seems this is because Brittain hasn't done that much going forward but not sure Ayling would be able to get up and down all game so it's something of a fudged selection.
Boro did get forward well in the first 30 minutes but if the wing-backs are high then there's not much pace in central defence to deal with fast counter-attacks - though many were guilty of ball watching rather than picking up the runs of those opposition players looking to get on the end of the crosses.
Also it would be great if McGree is fit again as he always added that extra guile and brought others into play - though that would also see a few of the new signings failing to get on the pitch and it looks increasing likely they won't be at their peak for some time.
Though surely Edwards can't play a back three and a midfield three and just two forwards as it means the bench is then just forwards waiting to come on into a system they don't fit. Better to play a system that matches the shape of the squad so that players get time on the pitch.
@presidentjump Keep the defence tight and look for a clean sheet and nick a goal.
A little Karanka, until Edwards can hopefully find a better solution to the goals scenario. If the current crop are not the answer, then try and move a couple on and bring in a better loanee if possible.
Certainly in January with the return of Malanda, we will initially need a place. However, I assume the outer fringe players, such as Gilbert and Hamilton will be loaned out. Possibly even Bangura and what do we do with Lenihan?
@werdermouth When the team sheet was announced, it looked as though Edwards had chosen to try and stifle Warford’s pace down the wings and the supply from their midfield.
As it turned out, Hackney played the forward “number 10 role” with Burgzorg more central at times, generally nowhere near Conway. It did sort of work for awhile, apart from when we got to their 18 yard box when with tried to pass our way through a packed defence.
Although we looked nice on the eye with some lovely passing movements, it all looked to much like Carrick Ball and not enough what we all originally expected from Edwards Ball. Possibly more direct and more crosses in behind the opposition defence.
At the moment, as much as the team / squad are a work in progress, there is a real doubt as to whether we have the correct mix of players to suit either system.