@werdermouth. Apparently it has been proposed before but needs PL approval to proceed.
To date, the PL have been against on the grounds that it may potentially dilute the quality of the PL if a team finishing eighth were to be promoted. 😎
@lenmasterman - "With respect" etc...
Having spent 40+ years as an advocate in the Law Courts, from within days of being admitted, I have a few comments: some general, some personal.
Obviously an advocate has a job to do. It won't help with that job to annoy the tribunal before which one appears, whether that should be a bench of Magistrates, a County Court, Family Court or Crown Court Judge, or a District Judge/Resident Judge.
When disagreeing with some comment or suggestion made by a Judge, it would be foolish, maybe even unprofessional, to say "You're wrong!". Of course one might be appearing before the same Judge later that day, or tomorrow or next week/month. Nobody likes to have the impression they are being "disrespected".
The tradition is therefore, with a Bench or a professional opponent, to begin any disagreement with the expression "With respect..." That is not a tradition I can remember ever having followed.
Equally barristers (who used to be so relatively few in number that they were are expected to know each other, as many actually did, and would never shake hands in greeting because that suggests distance rather than being part of the same family/group) will normally refer to other barristers in the case as "My Learned Friend", even if they very much doubted the quality of that learning. Solicitors would be referred to as "My friend". It's an old tradition rather like in Parliament where a Member of Parliament might be referred to as an Honourable Member, a minister/member of the Privy Counsel as the Right Honourable Member, someone who'd been an officer in the Armed Forces would be the Gallant Honourable Member and someone in the Law as a Learned Honourable Member. Any Barrister, even if very junior/only Called to the Bar shortly before being elected to Parliament, would be able to seek Silk and therefore be referred to as a KC.
But in my experience you can say MANY things but it is sometimes the tone of voice or context that carries the weight. You could call someone a Friend (whether or not Learned) but make it quite clear there are quotation marks around that phrase which destroy its sentiment.
If a Judge had expressed a preliminary view with which I disagreed, I would NEVER have said in the past "With respect/the greatest respect, Your Honour XYZ...". That is partly because the phrase is a living cliche and MIGHT be taken the wrong way. I MIGHT say something along the lines of "I can see why that argument may initially carry favour/the quoted authority might be read in those terms (or whatever) but can I respectfully suggest an alternative interpretation of that Judgment which may encourage the court to come to a different view...?" I did hear many lawyers in the court start their comments with "With respect, Your Honour XYZ..." but I nearly always winced.
I did respect the great majority of those professional colleagues with or against whom I appeared in court but I had my own little rules/preferences and after doing the job for decades they became second nature. I would NEVER refer to a Barrister in my case as my Learned Friend (whether or not I had personally liked them for years) but I'd say something like "With regard to the arguments of Counsel for the Local Authority..." or "If I might now address the argument put forward by Mr Smith for the Mother and by Mrs Jones on behalf of the Children's Guardian..." I would not use the phrase "Learned Friend" at all, to refer to a Barrister and neither would I call that person "My friend". Sometimes I was referred to, wrongly, by a Barrister as their "Learned Friend" but I'd not say anything.
If the advocate happened to be a solicitor, but only if they were a solicitor, I might and did use the phrase "My friend...." when referring to them. But if I came across some solicitor whose word I doubted (a few but not many) I would not use the expression "My friend". I'd say something like: "The court has heard it suggested by Mr Briggs on behalf of the Applicant" or "The Solicitor for the 2nd Respondent has suggested XZZ but..."
I didn't want to say something I didn't mean. I would not want to call "friend" someone who was not a friend. For the avoidance of doubt I didn't agree with every decision the Judge in my case made, but I had no reason not to respect any of them. Every High Court Judge before whom I appeared seemed as sharp as a tack, knew the weak points in a case before you got to them, and were unfailingly polite and respectful to me and the other advocates.
I found if you showed respect to others, they were almost always respectful in return. I am sure I didn't need to say that I had respect. It was obvious. I can't remember a single judge who was ever unfair to me, whatever decision was later announced.
@werdermouth if they keep on that kind of trajectory they will eventually get to a place where all 22 clubs that don't get automatic promotion could play in a round robin (home and away of course) to decide which team finishes highest to get promoted .... oh, 🤔 hang on a minute
...like we wouldn't want a situation where all three promoted clubs get immediately relegated now, would we?@werdermouth. Apparently it has been proposed before but needs PL approval to proceed.
To date, the PL have been against on the grounds that it may potentially dilute the quality of the PL if a team finishing eighth were to be promoted. 😎
The proposed playoffs sound very similar to what happens in Rugby SuperLeague to qualify for the Grand Final. The League Leaders Shield is now seen as very much secondary to winning the GF even though one takes a full season of winning and success and the other becomes a knockout competition, albeit skewed by home advantage for the top 2 finishers.
I can’t say I’m that keen on the new proposal although I guess MFC could well benefit from it.
@martin-bellamy Only if we were in the Championship next year ....
Up the Boro!
@martin-bellamy Only if we were in the Championship next year ....
Up the Boro!
Good point - it would be nice to not have to worry about those changes.
I just watched the first half highlights and most of the second half of Ipswich v Sheffield United and am still shaking my head at the final result.
It’s not that Ipswich didn’t deserve to win but the first two goals were lucky bounces that Philogene latched on and then scored with nobody getting near to a tackle. The third goal was a shambles that ended with an average shot going through the keeper’s legs. Goals four and five reminded me of the goals that Boro conceded last year when we left the midfield totally open for someone to run through us.
I accept that Ipswich could only beat what was in front of them but it’s hard to know how good they are. They do have a tremendous squad as demonstrated by their substitutions. Imagine being able to replace Akpom by Sammy Smodicz. Based on that strength they are understandably favourites for promotion.
Sheffield United were very poor and it must now be an open question whether Selles makes the next international break.
UTB
That was Ipswich's first home win this year, their last one was last December against Chelsea. When they went up they bought most of the better players in the Championship and spent serious money, 20 million for Philogene, so, on paper, they really should be favourites for promotion. Today's game might be a feisty one as both teams seem to pick up a number of yellow cards. In our two away games we have picked up 8 with Preston having the same number at home, so the ref might have a busy time. He is Thomas Kirk another fairly inexperienced official who is on his 4th season as an EFL official. He has a day job as the CEO of aYorkshire based estate agents.
Also probably going to be a low scoring affair as Preston have only 4 goals in their 4 games and Osmajic has 3 of those, and we have scored 7 although 5 of those away from home, making us 5th in the league on that stat.
If Sir Len thinks that way, it is likely we can continue our run.Malcolm and Pres J ....
But hey, we are top of the league, playing well and I cannot wait for this season to unfold.
PNE 0 Boro 2
Especially so if their top scorer, M. Osmajić would miss the match with a rib injury. But let's see what his fitnes is today. But I hope we could finally put to bed our recent record at Deepdale. I think Karanka's troops were good at that during his promotion year. Winning in traditionally tough places.
Getting nervous in waiting for the match. Up the Boro!
I am really looking forward to watching the game today. Quite excited actually. Hoping the good run continues... and a belated thank you to AndyR for taking one for the team to miss watching the game live 😉.
CoB (Boro and Bob !!)
Team News... No Fry in the squad so Lenihan starts with Strelec on the bench with someone called Patterson Powell...
@werdermouth. Rio Patterson Powell is a member of the Under 21 squad and is a forward. RE must be looking to give him some experience of a first team match day; I would be surprised or even worried if he has to come on as a substitute, other than to run down the clock toward the end of the game if we are winning.
I wonder if the absence of Fry and Burgzorg is due to illness which RE mentioned yesterday in his press conference. 😎
Rio Patterson-Powell is a right-sided U21 midfielder and I guess with Law McCabe now on loan at Plymouth he offers cover with Kante and Browne.
I'd forgot about Burgzorg 🙂 and mention that Kaly Sene also starts today - as does Targett instead of Silvera.
I don't really know where Patterson-Powell plays - I posted before I read your reply that it said on the google search he was a right-sided midfielder - but I've actually knowledge on the matter...
Today's game might be a feisty one as both teams seem to pick up a number of yellow cards. In our two away games we have picked up 8 with Preston having the same number at home, so the ref might have a busy time. He is Thomas Kirk another fairly inexperienced official who is on his 4th season as an EFL official. He has a day job as the CEO of aYorkshire based estate agents.
Morgan Whittaker (8th minute) & Alfie Jones (11th minute) have one already !
I think Whittaker needs to come off - he's off the pace and on a yellow which is making him even more hesitant to tackle.
Let's see whether this BORO team can can come back from behind to win, against a team in reasonable form. Nobody would have put money on BORO to do that last season...
Boro not really gelling together in that first half as Preston were pressing the players and strong defensively - a good goal to take the lead but he was able to run a long way unchallenged. Boro lacking a playmaker to feed the forwards and wouldn't be surprised to see Whittaker hooked as he's been poor and replaced by Nypan. A lot to do for Boro to win this game!
Disappointing first half where we have been slow and clunky. MW offering nothing in attack or defence.
Need major changes in personnel and performance to gain even a point; at this time a fifth away defeat at Preston is on the cards.😎
Strelec on for Sène at the start of the second half.
Belated thanks Martin for another PNE Headliner.
Poor first half from Boro, with PNE winning all the 50/50 balls, and the our defence looking slightly at sea against their press, with our two wing backs not being effective.
How Whittaker is still on is more than surprising. Let’s see if Mr Edwards can change things.
Our passing has also been poor at times, one too many, with HH being one of the main culprits
I think Whittaker needs to come off - he's off the pace and on a yellow which is making him even more hesitant to tackle.
Nypan replaces Whittaker in the 66th minute.
HOOORAY - Matt Targett scores after good work by substitute Nypan. 1-1.
Nypan had only been on the field 6-7 minutes.