Len, sorry to hear your news and what must be a fairly serious condition. All I can say is get well as soon as you can and get yourself home. Take care and look after yourself. I hope you got to see the test too.
ATB and UTB,
John
I am sorry to hear your problems, Sir Len. I wish you all the best and let's hope you are back home soon. I remember us meeting at Derby as well at a former players re-union a few years' back. Take care!
Just a rumour I heard today. That Marcus Forss is interesting Wrexham. I heard this from my son - who is a Boro fan but has also worked for the Finnish Football Assosiation. But as said, a rumour at the moment.
Up the Boro!
Hope you have a speedy recovery some things are more important than this frippery
Len, I’m with you on the 10 points forecast for the first 10 games and I too feel I am being optimistic. I hope not. Get well soon.
What a bloody terrible start from Edwards. He hasn’t even bothered to take a look at Josh in pre-season. I’m disgusted. I thought Edwards might have considered using him, if not as principal striker, then at least as someone who might change a game; after all, at Luton he relied quite heavily on a player of similar stature and playing style in Carlton Morris.
We all know Josh offered something different. He’s not necessarily an instinctive striker like Latte Lath, but he will put himself about and bag a few goals. He was the only forward we have who is good in the air, too. Yet we’ve identified previously that we score very few set piece goals, and hardly ever from corners.
Unless Edwards and Scott have somebody else in mind, I think they - and we - will come to regret this rash decision.
I wish Josh well. But he joins Duncan Watmore as another we sold to Millwall for a pittance and whom we really should have kept.
It’s a Financial fair play rise to defray charges by selling home grown players.
I would expect RE has watched several videos of Josh in action also his fitness record is not the best for matches played.
Hackney and Fry would also come into the FFP category too
OFB
Sorry to hear you’ve joined the squad of crocked Diasborians Len.
Get well soon and I’m sure we’ll drop a note or two into our blog that will need your riposte !
Thinking of you take care.
OFB
Count me in
@lenmasterman same asceveryonecelse, I am sorry to hear you have been kept in hospital this last period. Hoping for a good recovery for you. I will remember you to the big feller and put a word in for you. Fingers crossed all will be well.
@original-fat-bob Yes, they are in that category. But I do not believe we NEED to sell - instead I think we are able to invest in new players.
So most probably we will be looking still into buying similar player types as when Carrick was in place. Hopelly the days are over when we go from one style to another when we change a manager. Like from Woody to Warnock or Mogga to Karanka. We must have continuity and save money now when Scottis around.
I hope we sold Coburn only because we have a different type of striker in mind and that we are close to signing one, too.
A good deal anyway for us. Up the Boro!
Re: Josh Coburn
In total, after making his debut aged 18 in April 2021, the striker made 56 appearances for Boro, netting 12 goals.
Coburn played 21 times for Millwall in 2024/25, finding the net five times,
I think it was a good deal for us. Sincerely hope we a new striker lined up to fill the void left by the departure of Latte Lath.
Up the Boro!
As a fan, it's never nice to see the club sell 'one of our own' and to a large extent it goes against the grain of why any fan supports their local team. I'd much rather we tried to find a way to keep him. Josh Coburn seems a good lad too and I'd guess that every Boro fan wishes him well.
Being pragmatic, he has a one goal in 4.5 games record for us and one in about four at Bristol Rovers and Millwall so from goal scoring perspective, we can't complain about the sale. If we were buying a forward with that record, I'd be up in arms certainly. Josh is more of a big, all round striker though and Conway, probably, is the better option. It's sad but little surprise that he's gone.
The other side of the unease that comes from any decent sale comes with spending, or frittering away the proceeds as the club in every era seems to have done. I assume that Scott oversees and guides here but that Edwards has the final say. Spending well in these next few months will shape the Edwards regime to a good extent and buys goodwill and time.
I wasn't blown away when we bought Lathe or Rogers but they proved outstanding purchases. We need that again.
We don't know why Coburn has been let go but, given the relatively low amounts involved, it may well have nothing to do with financial issues. Maybe they see it as a good fee for his ability and just fancy getting someone better as a regular part of the front two.
I'll go for 17 points and am happy to chuck in the odd preview.
UTB
I hope they can get you on the mend soon Len and make you well enough to get back home again - take care and wish you a full recovery!
Best wishes Len for a swift recovery
Excellent post. My thoughts entirely.
@lenmasterman So sorry to read you've been unwell, Len. Here's a to a full and speedy recovery.
I've noted that you won't won't be able to write starters. I do hope you'll continue to be able to comment though, as I think I can speak for everyone in saying that the blog would be a lesser place without your always considered and thought provoking input.
Get well soon.
I was just about to make very similar points about Josh Coburn when I noticed your post on the Rob Edwards thread - anyway I've just moved it over to the Fixtures thread with a few others as we're discussing the same issue over 2 threads, which is complicated.
What surprises me is Josh Coburn seems to fit the profile of an Edwards centre-forward - where he has previously described how they should be physical and aggressive who can occupy defenders and hold the ball - that pretty much sounds like Josh's game. OK, Boro may sign someone like that but if that's the kind of player you need then invariably you'll need more than one over 46 games.
Anyway, sounds like the deal was done before Edwards was appointed and he just had to give the nod once appointed - I take the point that Josh's injury record is not good with three long-term injuries already so perhaps his reliability is in the McGree category and if it's around £5m then it was a decision to make.
The other factor seems to be that Coburn sounded keen on a move where he was integral to his manager's plans and not a fringe player.
Shame really as I thought he had a future under Edwards - good luck to him!
I'm also disappointed that Coburn has been sold. My instinct was that one positive from the managerial churn this summer would be that Josh would have a fresh start and maybe this would be his time for us.
I like him as a player and, alongside Forss, consider him to have been one of the the most natural finishers at the club. His physicality is likely to become a greater asset for him as he matures and his pace is somewhat underrated in my opinion.
That said, if we've sold in order to ensure we meet financial regs, then that is not uncommon in today's game. It happened throughout the Premier League last season with players like Elliot Anderson and Yankuba Minteh sold by Newcastle last summer despite being expected to play a major part in first team affairs for them. It strikes me that the rules governing club finances cannot be right if the answer is often to sell your promising, homegrown youngsters.
As Werder points out, the sums don't seem to add up on the surface but we're not privy to the detailed info.
Disappointing.
On the issue of selling players and recruiting, some interesting comments from Edwards in an article in the Echo this morning, where he unsurprisingly declares he's on the same page as the recruitment team. He seems relaxed about the possibility of selling players like Hackney and van den Berg if the offer is too good to refuse...
"It would have to be a decision made by the people above, but if we deemed it the right decision for someone to go, then I don’t think that needs to be seen as a worry or a negative. We’ve got to then see that as an opportunity to improve."
The other interesting point he made is that all three of the coaching staff are used to working with young players and favour those who are athletic and can run. He added...
"That probably matches a bit more with the 22 or 23-year-olds than maybe the older ones. I don’t want to label that at everyone, because if they’re the right person and the right player, and we think they can help us, then it kind of doesn’t matter on the age."
However, that doesn't bode well for some - I don't see Ayling fitting that description and maybe a new deal for Howson is maybe not a gimme.
10 points out of 30 would not be the start Edwards would want - though I should point out that last year his Luton side had 11 points after ten games.
Last season 10 points would have put you 20th in the table, two points above the drop zone. Incidentally, Millwall had 10 points last season and were 2 points above Coventry.
The other worry for me is that Edwards lost his last ten away games at Luton and Boro's first 5 away games look tough with trips to Millwall, Norwich, Preston, Southampton and Portsmouth.
Not that the home games look much easier with Swansea, Sheff Utd, West Brom, Stoke and Ipswich. I would only put us favourites against Swansea and Stoke from those.
So home wins over Swansea and Stoke, victory at Portsmouth and a draw at Preston gives you 10 points - doesn't sound that unreasonable when you put it that way...
@werdermouth We do not know how Edwards wants his team to play - except that he wants more intensity and he wants Boro to win the ball back quickly. I think we presume he likes to play the way Luton played when he inherited the players from the era of the previous manager there.
Please remember Edwards has a totally new coaching team now. And he was able to adjust the Luton team in the EPL from the one in the Championship. He is flexible.
I presume Boro will continue play more like CarrickBall at its best. So we are not going to change our formation totally to a new way now. The point of having a director of football is CONTINUITY.
I think we need a Latte Lath type of a mobile striker.
Up the Boro!
Yes we know nothing for sure as yet and must wait to see what tactics Edwards plays - though I made the point last week whether you would want your head coach to come in and then play a style and formation he's not used in the last 3 or 4 years?
As for whether the Director of Football is qualified to dictate on how the team will play is probably a whole new can of worms. I'm happy to let Edwards and his coaching team decide how his team should best play and in what formation - I would hope the the DoF would then work with recruitment to ensure the players that are brought in best fit that style and not the other way round.
Yes, the manager makes the decisions on the match day.
What I meant with continuity is that we do not go from players suited to 4-2-3-1 to 3-5-2 if we do not have any wing backs. We will lose a lot of time and money if we go back to the system like we had when attacking Mogga was substituted by ultra defending Karanka.
There must be an agreed template what Middlesbrough FC want to be. And stick to it even if the personnel is changed. Up the Boro!
Firstly, may I say how sorry I am to hear of your hospitalisation, Len. I hope you soon escape and that you are soon feeling much better. I will certainly miss your excellent previews and hope you will be able to do some as the season progresses.
Thanks for a great opener, werder. I really enjoyed it. 12 points for me from the first ten games.
I’m happy to contribute previews again, Andy.
I know what you mean and don't disagree in avoiding the need to make huge changes in players every time a new manager comes in - though I would counter that in arguing that in fact there were huge changes in players under Carrick with each summer window and indeed even the last January window too.
It sounds to me that Edwards prefers to play with wing-backs and I'd be surprised if he plays with a back four as standard - though modern coaches tend to vary their tactics and formations these days so maybe the players we sign need to be flexible.
I think he's already said this morning he probably prefers young athletic players who have pace - we know the current squad lacks pace in defence so again I wouldn't be surprised to see some new pacy full-backs/wing-backs arrive - in theory Bangura is one of those players - of course Ayling is not and Borges is somewhere in between. Probably would've suited Dijksteel to be a wing-back or maybe he could sign a certain a certain I Jones from his old club who would've been perfect!
It should be an interesting few weeks watching how everthingy takes shape but it's another 4 weeks before the first friendly when we'll discover how Boro intend to play.
I believe Josh Dede is a right sided fullback / wingback converted from a winger. I believe we signed him from Celtic in January. Presumably he wasn't deemed ready but maybe he will progress this season.
If we wanted to play with wingbacks, the current squad looks most suited to adopting the 3-4-2-1 that Crystal Palace have successfully employed, with two floating 10s behind the striker, though that striker probably needs to be a more physical, hold-it-up type and we've just sold Coburn...
Something like:
-------------Brynn---------------
----------Rav Fry Borges--------
Dede? Hackney Morris Bangura
----------Whittaker Azaz--------
------------Conway--------------
Striker and wingbacks would be required and some cover elsewhere too I think.
@lenmasterman. So sorry to learn of your hospitalisation, wishing you all the best and that your incarceration does not go on for too much longer. 😎
@werdermouth I agree with that. So let's wait and see. Again, I am hoping just four to six new players at most.
@Andy R I’m happy to contribute previews again, Andy. Keep us posted. But not same clubs as per last year. New challeges!
Up the Boro!
According to Craig Johns... "Coburn opted to return to the London club when it became clear that he wouldn’t feature much at Boro, even after Rob Edwards’ arrival as new head coach this summer"
That doesn't sound like it was Edwards decision as Josh was sold only 2 days after he was appointed head coach!
I’m of the opinion that if JC wasn’t “one of our own”, we’d be very underwhelmed if he was signed from another club as our main striker. There’d be mutterings about his injury record and his less than ideal goal scoring stats.
I wish him well at Millwall - hopefully being away from his comfortable home environment has knocked some rough edges on to him and he can go on to have a successful career.